Not to sound ignorant, but could someone explain just where these massive sums of money go when making games?

Premises, hardware, wages for over a thousand people, advertising, etc, etc, it all adds up pretty quick, although I don't doubt that they've wasted some money along the way but when they're going to make more that a 400% - 500% return it's not too bad going

And Shenmue will still be the most memorable.

@satek: Developers, artist, voice-actors, programmers, designers and... well I'm sure someone will fill in the blank.

@satek:
salaries,voice acting,marketing,production costs,etc

@satek: The large majority of that will be the salaries of the people who work at the developer

But Shenmue is in the Top 3 of Best Games ever made too.^^

@satek: a lot of salaries.

"Over a thousand people worked on the game" <-- thats a lot of paychecks.

Lawyers, actors, programmers, artists and you can't forget specialized guys like the sound production crew that make things very expensive.

then you have licensing, marketing, production of the physical media and the like. Of course you can't forget the support crew that keep the day to day ops of the business going too.

A lot of it is just the cost of doing business and the cost of producing a AAA title in this day and age. Its an expensive thing to do now. I think it shows how much the medium has matured as a result though.

@Dannon: Teams do not consist of a thousand people, The Rockstar team that created GTA4 was supposedly 200.

@littletad:

The actual design team was probably 200. What about everyone else from the radio stations, the website, voice acting and the marketing. That's a massive project to control.

Was that budget of 70,000,000 just for Shemue, or does it include Shemue 2? It's weird, I was talking just the other day about how much Shemue cost and wondering if it was still the most expensive game made.

@littletad: I'm sure other studios, and free lance workers also were involved, could easily be a 1,000 people working on it.

Ah, I completely forgot about marketing. I was just thinking about the supposed average game developer salary ($73,000) over a 5 year period, for one thousand people, then working out what other costs would be involved.

It still sounds like a colossal amount of money compared to what game development used to cost. So is this the price they pay for making next-gen games? No wonder so many studios are going bankrupt and closing down.

Shenmue is one of the major reasons Sega had to throw the towel in on the Dreamcast and could be a study into "Why a major game developer/publisher goes broke within 10 years."

GTV costs more, but it will rake in it's production costs with ease, possibly by the end of the weekend. Shenmue although hugely epic had no chance to ever make back the money spent on it.

Pissing away 70 million on Shenmue (Which forever will remain a bundle of half-finished ideas never fully realized like Xenogears/Saga) is nothing for fans to be proud of. Shenmue helped kill Sega.

sorry that's $73,000 a year, then I was calculating it over a period of 5 years or so... just playing around to see how far that much money would go :D

I don't think MGS4 cost as much as GTAIV. They didn't have to buy the rights to a couple hundred songs, they won't have as many voice actors, etc. I'm sure the game is in the top 5 highest budgeted games ever made -- probably 3rd after GTAIV and Shenmue. Shenmue was way ahead of its time and GTAIV has all those huge RIAA hoops to jump through. What games would fill the top 10 biggest budget games, anyway? For movies the top 10 is well known. Games? Not so much.

@Sloopydrew: Oh yeah, song licensing would be another large chunk. At least Rockstar will be able to make it all back easily being such a hugely successful franchise. It's no wonder we are seeing less new IP's being developed.

I highly doubt that MGS4 will surpass GTAIV in terms of budget. GTAIV has behind it what will most likely be a record-breaking launch on many levels, and it's anticipated by more than just hardcore gamers and geeks like us, but by Madden fans, Bejeweled players, and everybody who pays attention to the news. Keeping that in mind, I'm sure the budget is nothing to scoff at.

@Foxstar Sixtail:

EA gamers too content to stick with the familiar and too afraid to try something new are to blame for Shenmue's failure. They are what helped killed Sega. As well as Sega itself, releasing add-ons and consoles in rapid succession without giving anything a chance to really stick. Not to mention Sony and Nintendo ganging up and shelling out large amounts of cash for shelf space, which squeezed Sega into little nooks and crannies at electronic stores everywhere. I don't think Shenmue was that big a factor when you look at the overall picture. If it was? What a way to go. That was an incredible game.

I miiiiight've said MGS4 had a higher production cost, but advertising does cost a lot and MGS4 is no way where as main stream as GTAIV.

Shenmue 3, Wii. Make it happen, SEGA.

This generation's gamer is truly blessed, ya'll. GTA4 AND MGS4 in the same six month period? When has that ever happened before? Never. That's when. And come to think of it, when in the history of gaming have we received sequels/follow-ups for so many huge high profile franchises in the same year?

Just cast your eyes yonder to this impressive rollcall. New installments of Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Gran Turismo, Soul Calibur, Silent Hill, Tomb Raider, Tekken, God of War (maybe), Final Fantasy (err, maybe not) and then the aforementioned Metal Gear Solid and Grand Theft Auto sequels all in one year. Never happened before. Never gonna happen again.

Dagnabbit, that right there has got to be some kind of golldarned record, I'd venture to guess.

@satek:

"Oh yeah, song licensing would be another large chunk. At least Rockstar will be able to make it all back easily being such a hugely successful franchise."

That Amazon deal won't hurt it, either. Although I'm about 6 hours into GTAIV and haven't seen any options to buy a song I like. Did they scrap that deal or am I just not looking the right place? In theory, they could probably give the game away for free and still make a profit with downloadable content and commission from the songs sold through the game. The question was is GTAIV the most expensive game ever made. That's debatable. On the other hand, I would be surprised if it doesn't end up being the most profitable. It took me four stores to find it and when I did (at Best Buy), there were small lines of people buying it before me and people in line with the game after me. This was at 1:30 in the afternoon on a weekday.

Shenmue is also in the Guiness Book for "most awesome game ever developed".

The Shenmue saga's lack of closing is one of the greatest tragedies of the gaming industry. Number 2 still tops my list of favorite games, easily, and I was a late-comer to the series.

Don't forget to adjust for inflation.

@Sloopydrew:Shenmue was part of the bomb that ended it all. Gamers had a part to play in it as well, as many of the Sega 'elite' did not play Shenmue and those that did denounced it. I was working gaming retail for the first time back when Shenmue first game out and it had a huge return rate.

But Sega's bad habit though the mid to late 90's of pissing away money on stupid crap (15 million on a FMV studio anyone? Jan Coyle Lawsuit?) and the deadly trio (Sega CD, 32X, Saturn ) is what really spelled their doom. The lost shelf space because retailers were sick of their shit more then Sony and Nintendo shelling out for it.

Yes, Shenmue was way ahead of it's time and because of it, cost far more and realized less, but still yes it was a incredible game.

one day, we will play Shenmue III and it will be awesome!

So how much does a developer get from each $60 game sale? (In other words, how much do they sell them to retailers for?)

@Foxstar Sixtail: people returned that game?

my friends and i fucking loved that game when it came out. i was (still am really) very tired of the orcs and dorks RPGS of the time and the Square Enix games of the time and thought that the 1980's martial arts epic was probably the best subject for an RPG of all time.

@duckmouth: i dunno, i'd like to see someone come out with a monetary break down of each copy sold for this generation.

@duckmouth: Usually half price. Here in Norway atleast a game that would cost 599 NOK would be sold from EA for 320NOK. Sometimes less. Now, the developer would maybe get 150-200 for the game. I know this, because i see this everyday... Well everyweek :P

"I'm looking for a sailor"

250,000$ right there.

@andrewmedina:Yes. At my EB alone, we had like 40 copies returned.

@andrewmedina: I can actually give you a breakdown on some games. Ill have to go to the office for that.. But i fear if i do, Id never receive games from the publishers again :P

BTW... the developer share is just guessing :P

@TheTimeRanger: Don't, man. Just don't. It still hurts too much. Salt in the wound. :(

@Foxstar Sixtail:

What were some of the reasons they gave for returning it? I wish I could find a store that let me return games just because I didn't like them. I've never had that happen (with one exception after LOTS of whining). It's odd to me that so many gamers embraced GTAIII a year or so after completely rejecting Shenmue -- which had a lot of gameplay similarities and was arguably a better game (I liked it better, at least). Maybe Sega should have put at least half the amount the game cost into marketing the actual game. I didn't see a single television commercial for the title. If not for reviews, I would have never even thought to pick it up.

Wow. Even older people who don't know much about video games say that there's a lot of money in the industry, and here's proof. $100 million huh? How much did the last round of blockbuster movies cost?

The games industry is seriously getting big.

I wonder what the budget on Snake's moustache was...

BIG Shenmue fan. Very ambitious project and I'm glad i got to experience it. As for GTAIV, its that kind of game that can justify the production costs coz they know it's gonna hit the 300-400mil'ish mark on returns easy, probably even more. From playing it so far (38 missions in and no failures) I can see why, very absorbing and immersive game. Grats to R* and their employees for a true 10/10 game.

Shenmue... one of the best games ever made. I wonder what ever happened to this:

+ Watch video

Come on Sega! We want the next Shenmue! Soon!!

"$100 million huh? How much did the last round of blockbuster movies cost?"

Two to three times that. Even the lesser "event" films such as The Mummy III cost $175 million. Spider-Man 3 was 250 million. Pirates of the Caribbean 3 was 300 million.

@Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.:

Example comparable film/game:

Borne Ultimatum:
Budget: $110 Million
Gross Revenue (to date): $442,911,572 (Worldwide)

Halo 3:
Budget: Unknown
Gross Revenue (to date): $500,000,000+ (Worldwide)

I'd say the film industry has reason to be feeling a little sheepish about games nowadays.

Notes: Borne Ultimatum film figures taken from Wiki and Halo 3 figures taken from BBC News two days ago in a GTAVI News Special about this very topic. Halo 3 figures converted from £'s to $'s and rounded. My above comment on R* predicted GTAIV earnings were also in £'s.

Yu Suzuki has been pretty much locked in the shame closet at Sega Japan ever since Shenmue flopped. He's not made a game since 2006 (Psy-Phi), and it got cancelled. His last released game was Outrun 2 in 2003!

Sega really need to let Suzuki get on with Shenmue 3 and other games. I think the lack of Suzuki is why Sega just isn't the same anymore.

i dont think the cost of MGS4 will surpass that of GTA4. GTA4 has had way to much going on for it like their ad campaigns and viral marketing and song licensing that theres no way MGS4 would be able to be more expensive.

@Foxstar Sixtail: myabe it's because i love shenmue too much, but i refuse to believe that shenmue caused any sort of downfall for sega and seaman gets away scott free. I mean, if Shenmue was able to generate enough fans/interest to make a shenmue online, then they had to make some sort of revenue.

btw, im not even sure if shenmue online actually came out in china/korea/wherever it was supposed too.

i wish they'd finish this game for real. better yet put all 3 on a bluray with dreamcast graphics i can take it. i finished the first game so fast it was still winter in game. i think you had till the cherry blossom trees bloomed. three days well spent. now there is only anger. naybe a book or movie to finish it up would help

@j.howlett: No, it must be a game, or I won't be satisfied! Game or nothin'!

@littletad: I know teams do not consist of a thousand people, I'm a computer games programmer myself, currently not working in that area though, and am aware of how many people work on different games but this is a huge game and I'm betting over a thousand people have contributed to it that needed paying. Also the article actually states over a thousand people worked on it, so for all intensive purposes a thousand people were paid over the time.

When I was doing contract work at Sony (modelling work with scan data) I was talking to one of the head cinematics guys and he told me that Lair cost an upward of $80,000,000.00 to make. At the very least, that would make it the most expensive "shitty controls" game of all time.

@satek: Yeah, it's the reason Majesco and THQ have greatly shifted their strategies, one to many flops costed them way too much money.

It is also the reason the Wii is getting certain games. Like, the developers of Monster Hunter, who are, you know, super super rich because MH sells millions and millions in Japan, will make MH3 for Wii. Because it's cheaper.

Bah. That much money on Shenmue? Seriously, the entire game felt like filler. Right before I saw the credits roiling I thought I had just gotten through an obnoxiously long intro and would see some REAL gameplay.

I'll bet Duke Nukem Forever will be double if not triple that

Makes you wonder how the full version of Gran Turismo 5 is going to cost...

@satek: "better management". I honestly believe there's a law of diminishing returns in effect here with games that's already been done with Hollywood. If you want to see where this kind of growth ends up, two words: CAL Trans :(

So are those dollars adjusted for inflation? One huge problem with saying something is the "most costliest ever!" is the fact that a lot of the time inflation isn't actually taken into account.
Not like I'm trying to be a major bitch about it, but seriously, I have to be.

(I don't know what that last sentence even means.)

@Siegeman: You're being a tad harsh on a rather ambitious game, that - for the most part - offers gamers a unique experience. Sounds like the game wasn't for you, but it certainly wasn't obnoxious.

Strangely enough Kojima generally workers with a relatively small team compared to how big his games are. Sure they take 3-4 years to make but it won't be anything near 100 mill for MGS4.

Funny thing about GTA IV, even if it cost $120 mill to make, it'll still make that back in the first week.

But are they taking inflation into account?

How are they going to make back 100 Million Dollars while continuing to promote the game?

$60*10,000,000 = $60,000,000 and they aren't making $60 profit on everygame so