Elden Ring Is Definitely Not An RPG: A Kotaku Debate

What is a role-playing game? You probably have your own definition and exceptions. And as you might expect, nearly everyone at Kotaku has thoughts and opinions on what is and isn’t an RPG. For example, some think Elden Ring is an RPG. Others disagree strongly. And then some think the idea of categorizing games via genre is a waste of time.

This is how the RPG/genre debate went among Kotaku staffers earlier this morning in Slack. This chat has been lightly edited and formatted.

Kenneth Shepard: Thinking about the five best RPGS from the last decade. My current picks are

Baldur’s Gate 3

Persona 5 Royal

Disco Elysium

Those are my locks, I think. Does anyone have any suggestions for the other two?

Zachary Zwiezen: Witcher 3?

Carolyn Petit: Don’t think Witcher 3 makes the cutoff.

Ken: I think it would be by a hair. It’s early 2015, right?

Zack: Yeah, May 2015

John Walker: Divinity: Original Sin 2.

Ken: Elden Ring and Bloodborne are both contenders as well.

John: Soulslikes aren’t RPGs, and I will die on this hill.

Ken: Damn.

Zack: I say it’s an RPG! Live your life.

John: Then all games are RPGs. They’re action-adventures.

Zack: I mean EVERYTHING is basically an RPG action-adventure game these days.

John: If you include Elden Ring then you have to include Horizon Zero Dawn, and that way madness lies.

Caro: Soulslikes are definitely RPGs. Horizon Zero Dawn is an action-adventure game.

John: NOOOOOOOooooooooooo!

Caro: I’m afraid so.

Zack: Welp, there you go. At least we figured this out.

John: This is why every game has every tag on Steam now. [Sad face emoji]

Zack: What is an RPG is a blog, I think.

Ken: A VGchat is happening before our eyes…

Zack: We should do two blogs.

-Of Course, Elden Ring Is An RPG

And then like an hour later:

-No, Elden Ring Isn’t An RPG

John: Yes!

Caro: Like, Dark Souls/Elden Ring, etc are not even subtle, they are RPG-ass RPGs, with all kinds of stat minutiae.

Ethan Gach: You have levels and stats. D&D has like five elements, anything with at least 2 of them qualifies.

John: So Horizon Zero Dawn counts!

Ethan Gach: Yes.

Caro: No.

Zack: I mean, personally, I gave up on trying to actually define RPGs as every definition either cut out games that are def RPGs or included everything.

Ethan: Dialogue choices, Quests, and XP.

Zack: Because, yes, Horizon would be an RPG by that definition. It has all of that.

John: It’s very simple. Everyone just asks me, and I decide.

Ethan: Call of Duty only has XP.

Zack: New Call of Duty games have dialogue options…

John: But given this, should Kenneth’s list not include Tears of the Kingdom?

Carolyn Petit: No, that’s definitely not an RPG, it’s an action-adventure.

Ethan: All adventures have action. Not all action is an adventure.

John: Haha, I think Carolyn has already implemented the “You just ask me” rule, but is trying to hide it.

Zack: That’s my rule with RPGs. I’ll know it when I see it, etc.

Carolyn Petit: Well to me an “adventure” game is Monkey Island.

John: Yes!

Caro: Hence why I call these action adventures.

Ethan Gach: Adventure game = ZzzZzz

Zack: Damn.

Carolyn Petit:

John Walker: I was about to say that the death of “adventure” as a meaningful genre has devastated me. And now even “point and click” doesn’t mean anything, because every cunt on Steam thinks this means “game with cursor.”

Caro: I think adventure games are okay these days. We got the Crimson Diamond last year, we’re getting Kathy Rain 2 this year.

John: Oh no, they’re great. But everyone calls EVERYTHING “adventure” now. To the point where it doesn’t mean anything.

Zack: What would be an “action” game? Not action adventure, but just action.

Caro: Vanquish is an action game.

Ken: Damn what if I threw a curveball and said Pokemon Legends: Arceus, like an absolute mark.

Ethan: Remember when you clicked on things governed by arbitrary logic in order to get story pellets dispensed like a rat being jerked around a maze?

John: Ethan, go to your room.

Zack: I love pixel hunts and mashing every item I have onto something in the desperate hopes of moving forward.

John: Zack, join him.

Caro: Every genre has bad games in it.

Zack: RPG has a lot of bad games in it as it has everything in it these days. As we’ve established concretely in this discussion.

John: (Also, Carolyn, don’t forget Old Skies comes out soon!)

Ken: Or what if I said Cyberpunk 2077 is one of the best RPGS of the decade like an equally huge mark.

Zack: That’s an RPG!

Carolyn: I mean you can make that argument! It’s not one I’d agree with but you can make it.

Zack: Oh I didn’t realize there was any debate about it.

Caro: Oh I’m not saying it’s not an RPG, I’m saying it’s not a good one.

Zack: Ah, well, I agree with that. Lol.

Ethan: It’s an immersive open-world shooter.

John: Divinity Original Sin 2 and Baldur’s Gate 3 are definitely the two best RPGs of the last decade.

Ethan: Well until May the only answer is Witcher 3.

John: Proper RPGs, not any of your bloody boss-fighting bullshit action games.

Zack: CRPGS is the term you are looking for grumpy man.

John: Oh, because these others aren’t running on computers?

Ethan: Vampire Survivors is an RPG.

Ken: Yeah, Divinity Original Sin 2 is one of the best of the decade.

Caro: Nah, Pillars of Eternity is way better than Divinity Original Sin 2.

John: I forgot Pillars! I don’t think it’s way better, but it’s bloody wonderful.

Zack: After all that lol I ask: What actually makes an RPG an RPG?

Ken: It’s not an RPG if it doesn’t let me kiss a man or manage an inventory. Sometimes both.

John: An RPG is a game in which I create a character by choosing class and skills (whether pre-named or otherwise) then explore a narrative by taking on quests, combating foes, and choosing my own path through the storyline. Also someone at some point says “forsooth.”

Ethan: An RPG must do at least two of the following: let me make narrative choices, go on quests, customize my character, include some sort of skill checks, or make the numbers go up. Elden Ring nails all five. Also, it’s got dragons.

Ken: Bloodborne is on my list next to Baldur’s Gate 3, Persona 5 Royal, and Disco Elysium. As contentious as that game’s categorization sounds now lmao.

Zack: Live your truth. Genres are just another example of humanity trying to organize everything in its never-ending and futile struggle to control the universe.