I will gladly wait for Nintendo to take as long as it wants to properly create a new Zelda title. I wouldn't be surprised if it took them a few more years of development time, because last I heard, a few years ago they had outsourced development to Retro, and swiftly snatched the IP back from them just after allowing them a few months of pre-production. Hopefully that means they've got some big ideas. #wii
@ThisCharmingMan: I'm with you. I'd rather wait for quality than have them rush out an undercooked product. I haven't been keeping tabs on this, but it was supposed to be an "all new" type of Zelda experience, not just in graphic style, but gameplay as well. #wii
Of course not. It'll be another year of mediocre casual friendly games that only the fad people give a crap about. This is Nintendo's problem. They only release new Zelda and Metroid games once ever 3-5 years and everything else is half assed Mario games and casual crap that only non-gamers like. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the new Zelda game as well as Metroid:Other M don't come out until 2011.
@SurakshaNewt: Well... yea. If you rush a game, and don't give it the proper time it needs to be developed, it'll suck. This is especially true if developers have any hope of introducing more than a single token improvement.
You can't expect an Ocarina of Time every year, or else it'll turn out like Madden. I'm sure Madden is great if you're a first time user, but getting an annual "sequel" doesn't give it much time to be new and super innovative.
Although I'm sure if Nintendo did release quality games all the time, people would just complain about too many sequels. And third-parties would complain (again) about Nintendo being too big a competitor. #wii
All they need to do is give the fairy that assists Link in his journey a different name, and change the game's title and they're done, can't be that hard :/ #wii
@casmith07:
That seems entirely pointless. Why bother selling it if you're gonna purchase it again later? You already have it, so you might as well keep it. #wii
@TickMan: The time spent on the game doesn't mean that it wasn't rushed. Most of the reason for the constant delays was porting it to the Wii and waiting for both to come out pretty much at the same time. #wii
@TickMan: Pretty sure there's an interview running around wth Miyamoto where he says TP was in fact rushed which is why the overworld feels so barren and some quests seem to go nowhere.
Wind Waker was also rushed as the dungeon with the bracelets and iron boots where meant to be full fledged dungens, not tiny rooms. #wii
@Kyosuke_Nanbu:
And for that, is why I'd love for them to do a "Wii Play Control" version of Wind Waker, but with all of the missing content added back in (hey, they added new levels to Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, so why not Zelda as well?). #wii
I honestly can't see this game released in the next 2 years or potentially even at all. At the moment I'm calling it a miracle if Golden Sun DS or Other M get released in 2010.
regardless of whatever year it launches, it could give nintendo the momentum it needs to revitalize the wii. I do believe nintendo would be foolish to put all their eggs in one basket with this. zelda alone isn't going to be enough. #wii
@dowingba: what games?? does the average "joe" knows about these titles? nintendo can't afford being secretive anymore.. they need to remind they're install base that the wii is still a viable console and educate potential buyers that motion-control isn't all that it does. #wii
@Alicia: The ridiculous number of first party AAA titles Nintendo have already released? And the lineup of awesome games that they've already announced for the next two years? They're not secret. In fact, you can find any and all of these great games in any store.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, no company has ever released as many awesome games as fast as Nintendo have in the past couple years. It's astonishing. And they certainly aren't slowing down. For christ sake, there are two Mario platformers coming out in the next little while.
So not even including 3rd party games, there is a fucking dearth of amazing games on the Wii. No, most of these games aren't FPS shooters (although some are). I'm not gonna lower myself to resorting to "the list", because frankly if you don't know what games I'm talking about, you have a really short attention span, or lack the ability to read.
EDIT: Actually it occurs to me that maybe you truly, honestly don't know about these games. Although how that is possible is beyond me. So anyway here's The List:
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Paper Mario
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metroid Prime 3 (actually the whole trilogy is now on Wii with updated controls)
WarioLand Shake It
Mario Kart Wii
That is off the top of my head. These are just the first party games since the release of the Wii. What other company have released that many games in that short span of time? And they are all incredible games. I mean there's also a bunch of awesome third party games, but it'd take all day to list those.
Anyway here are some upcoming Nintendo games (again, just the first party ones I can think of off the top of my head):
New Super Mario Bros. Wii (comes out next week!)
Mario Galaxy 2 (sometime next year)
Metroid Other M
Remember folks, this is one company releasing this many kick-ass games. It's dizzying to think, really.
And hey, if you're like me and you like older games too, the VC has pretty much every awesome game from the NES, SNES, and N64 consoles. I've put more hours into Ocarina of Time, which I procured for $10 off the VC, than most "next gen" games I spent $60+ on. In fact, every Mario and Zelda game (not including hand-held games) are playable on the Wii.
And oh crap I forgot about all the downloadable WiiWare games. Nintendo alone have released like a hundred or so highly rated puzzle games for download. And games like World of Goo and the Lost Winds titles are amazing, and very highly regarded as well. Not to mention great adventure games like the STrong Bad series.
@dowingba: I really really hate to bring the old stuff here, but the wii market is segmented. What you , true gamer, call "AAA tittle", is not the same as what daddy and mommy call a "great game for my kid" . They may be there and be very good, but that alone doesn't mean that everyone knows it and they'll sell well (Okami Syndrom) #wii
@DLNO-001: What? You mean like, casual games? You're not gonna sit here and try to tell me the Wii doesn't have tons of those types of games, are you? In fact, not even including 3rd parties, Nintendo alone have released a few dozen casual games that are ludicrously popular. Wii Sports, Wii Sports 2, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, WarioWare Smooth Moves, etc.
@dowingba: I'd also like to mention that Okami, my all time favouritest game ever, is on the Wii. And while I do prefer the PS2 version, the Wii port is certainly still incredibly amazing. There are alot of other ports of the best games of all time on the Wii as well, by the way. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition is easily the best version of that game, for instance. And is enough to make me wish Resident Evil 5 was on the Wii instead of the PS360. (And yes, I do own both a PS3 and a 360.) Also the already mentioned Metroid Prime Trilogy, some of the highest rated games ever. In my opinion the 3 best FPS games ever made. And of course, they are even better than the outstanding Gamecube versions. And, well, Pikmin.
@dowingba: that's what I mean when I refer the okami syndrom. Is a wonderful game, praised by anyone who plays it, be gamer or not. But only true gamers (those who are wise enought to compare it with Zelda, and ever wiser to find the substantial differences) know it, not your average [rayman rabbits - madden - halo ] user. #wii
@dowingba: You know something sad? I have a friend I let borrow okami--he really liked Ocarina when he played it--and he never got past the intro because there was "too much text"... instead he plays those third-rate mini-game collections.
@EmeraldStorm: I have heard alot of stories of people finding it hard to get into Okami. I tell people that if they can manage to get through the first 10-12 hours of the game, they will be hooked (the climax to the first part of the game -- the Orochi part -- is ridiculously epic). But alot of people can't get past the long text-heavy intro, unfortunately. #wii
mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta promoted this comment
Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name. was starred
Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name. was unstarred
@Sabre_Justice: ....But when it finally did surface... What a game. Was DEFINITELY worth the wait.
For those that missed out, here's a review. [www.escapistmagazine.com]#wii
@Ueziel: Most of the games you listed aren't developed by Nintendo, although developers like Skip Ltd, Monolith Soft and Cing have a close relationship with Nintendo they aren't first party. And Rhythm Heaven is a sequel to Rhythm Tengoku.
You would be incredibly naïve to think that Nintendo hasn't relied on old properties more than any other platform holder. As far as consoles are concerned Nintendo hasn't developed a new non-casual franchise since Pikmin. Nintendo's risk-averse strategy is just boring to me, as a consumer, and it's part of the reason that many gamers are becoming indifferent to them. It also seems like a waste of the DS and Wii's success. #wii
@electroshockwave: "You would be incredibly naïve to think that Nintendo hasn't relied on old properties more than any other platform holder."
Thats because they have almost all of the old properties people actually care about.
If Microsoft or Sony had anything on the level of Mario or Zelda you can be sure they'd be pumping out just as many games as Nintendo has, take MGS or Halo as prime examples.
@Ritz*: I still don't think that's any legitimate excuse for not creating new IPs. And by "almost all of the old properties people actually care about", I'm assuming you mean Mario, Zelda and Metroid which certainly doesn't cover most of the old properties people care about.
I should point out that MGS is from Konami, a 3rd party developer so it's not Sony who are pumping out the games. And even as a huge MGS fan I think the series should have ended with 4 (or at least gone on a long hiatus until they decide to remake the original two Metal Gear games from the MSX2) and I'm not particularly interested in MGS: Rising. I was also disappointed to find out that Bungie are still making more Halo games, especially with 343 Industries apparently also working on other Halo titles. So it's not just Nintendo I'm critical of for this.
But you can't deny that Nintendo seems too reliant on their old IPs, and seems to lack creativity in this regard, despite arguably being in the best position in the industry to take risks and create new franchises. If you compare their output of new titles to Microsoft and particularly Sony in the past 2 generations, or even just this generation, then they're clearly lacking.
@electroshockwave: I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't rely on them. To suggest that they shouldn't would be stupid.
Second party is just as good as first party. Despite not being developed directly by Nintendo, they are still approved, watched over and supported by Nintendo themselves. Nintendo owns those developers and publishes the games themselves.
So apparently, the Metroid Prime Trilogy doesn't get counted as Nintendo games because they're by Retro. Or Punch-Out!! Or Excitebots. Or even Smash Bros. If you don't count second parties, then Sony and Microsoft have next to nothing to their names.
All you're doing is coming up with as many qualifying possibilities for saying Nintendo doesn't make anything new. They clearly support and come up with new ideas. You're just trying to pick things apart for no reason. And to say that Nintendo has no creativity when it comes to their own major franchises is just being blind.
@Vault-Droog: While new IPs are all well and good, it isn't good just to make a new one for the sake of it. Despite they have been making new IPs with the Wii series, and yes they ARE new IPs, exactly what genre would you want them to go for? If you look at it, they have virtually all genres covered by usually at least 2 IPs:
Adventure/Platformer: Zelda, Mario, Kid Icarus
Racing: Mario Kart, F-Zero, Excite series
Strategy: Fire Emblem, Pikmin
Shooter: Metroid, Star Fox
The list goes on, and while some genres are clearly lacking (like RPGs and traditional shooters - strengths of the HD consoles) the amount of the ones that are is very small. The issue is that they're not using existing IPs, not that they need to make more of them... #wii
@electroshockwave: The thing that irks Nintendo fans though is that it's Nintendo that's being singled out in this issue. Why aren't other developers, that don't already have such a large number if titles in their stable, being accused to the same level?
I don't understand the fascination with new IP. What's the point if it plays like every other game in the genre?
HD console gamers circle-jerk over how great Infinity Ward is when they've only released one IP that stays in one genre and play similarly. The same people complain and accuse Nintendo of just regurgitating sequels, not putting out ENOUGH sequels, and not creating new IPs despite the fact that Nintendo has many existing games that cover many genres already.
Would renaming the next Mario game to Incredible Maria Sisters REALLY make much of a difference when the play the exact same? Is it really that big a crime to use Mario in the title if it has new gameplay? Mario games don't exactly have a rich background, so whether you like or dislike the universe doesn't make much of a difference.
Here's another example: would FFX-2 have gotten a better reception if they didn't make it a sequel to FFX and just made it a spin-off instead? Would it really even matter in the end? #wii
@ChuckCharles: @ObZen: @Hamster Poop: @Cdog923: @TigerKnee: Yet another link that looks like the last link but isn't that guy...fighting in a realm called Hyrule that looks kinda like the last Hyrule but isn't that place you're thinking about. Fighting to save a Princess named Zelda that looks like the exact same Zelda we already saved in 2,365 other Zelda games but this Zelda is different. Ultimately fighting against Ganondorf...from the desert...that turns into a pig beast but he isn't the EXACT. same. Ganondorf. that we fought over 20 years ago in that land called Hyrule that's not the same Hyrule as the announced Zelda game, with the Link guy that's not the same Link as that other guy in the green pajamas saving some chick named Zelda that's not the same Zelda whose ass we already saved 2,365 times.
After being disappointed with the pathetically typical ending to Twilight Princess and the "been there, done that" gameplay of Phantom Hourglass, we can be pretty damn sure, the next Zelda on Wii will definitely be...Link...riding a horse...saving Zelda and Hyrule...from Ganondorf....again.
Why couldn't Nintendo just give us a Zelda that was like Demon's Souls or Shadow of the Colossus? It's like they never pay attention to what the competition is doing and they wonder why Zelda's console sales have diminished over the years. #wii
@Striderhayasa - Can we get some damn m/kb support?!: I loved Shadow of the Colossus too. But you're not asking for them to shock you. You're asking them to make their game just like something out there already.
Frankly all of those elements you described are what make a Zelda game a Zelda game. Change too many fundamental elements and you alienate those coming in expecting such and such. #wii
@(Human) Gyaruson:
Twilight princess was teased and delayed for YEARS, and then we found it was delayed mostly to be ported to the wii. That is what we are expecting from this one, not necessarily the porting (That would be disgusting) but the long long wait. #wii
@roxaskey:
...
Did you just call Twilight princess rushed? The game was delayed by OVER A YEAR. It was originally announced in 2003 that it was being worked on. It came out 3 years (nearly 4!) after that.
I suppose you think duke nukem forever was rushed too? #wii
@Lozmaster: Just because it took a long time to make doesn't mean the final product wasn't rushed.
The second half of the game was extremely rushed. A complete lack of story development, dungeon grinding, a lack of new ideas, and just a generally much more hyperactive pace made it very clear it was rushed. It turned out the game was delayed so they could port it to the Wii and mirror the entire game for some reason. #wii
@nago: I'm still not convinced making Link right-handed would call for the ENTIRE game map to be mirrored. I can't think of a single case where the game would be broken with a switch in sword position, especially since a vast majority of Link's swings cover his entire front, not just his left or right side.
Either way, my point is that the prolonged development of the game didn't stop it from feeling rushed, especially since they took most of that delayed time simply porting it to the Wii, mirroring the map, and waiting to release both versions in parallel time frames.
I can wait for another Zelda. What ever happened to those other Nintendo characters. You know the ones that show up in Smash Bros yet haven't had any decent new games for themselves?
I'm probably just saddened after playing DKC 1 and 2 on my SNES recently, hoping for a new Donkey Kong that doesn't involve hitting bongos. #wii
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You can't expect an Ocarina of Time every year, or else it'll turn out like Madden. I'm sure Madden is great if you're a first time user, but getting an annual "sequel" doesn't give it much time to be new and super innovative.
Although I'm sure if Nintendo did release quality games all the time, people would just complain about too many sequels. And third-parties would complain (again) about Nintendo being too big a competitor. #wii
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That seems entirely pointless. Why bother selling it if you're gonna purchase it again later? You already have it, so you might as well keep it. #wii
11/07/09
Heheh, so is taking jokes too seriously. #wii
11/07/09
Jokes are usually funny. ;P
Unless you like to read Ctrl+Alt+Delete...
11/07/09
Twilight Princess seemed a bit rushed towards the end, most likely because they had to develop the Wii version.
Plus Spirit Tracks should be some good interim Zelda action. #wii
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Wind Waker was also rushed as the dungeon with the bracelets and iron boots where meant to be full fledged dungens, not tiny rooms. #wii
11/07/09
And for that, is why I'd love for them to do a "Wii Play Control" version of Wind Waker, but with all of the missing content added back in (hey, they added new levels to Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, so why not Zelda as well?). #wii
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Yes, they announced at E³ that Golden Sun 3 is coming to DS. Finally. #wii
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, no company has ever released as many awesome games as fast as Nintendo have in the past couple years. It's astonishing. And they certainly aren't slowing down. For christ sake, there are two Mario platformers coming out in the next little while.
So not even including 3rd party games, there is a fucking dearth of amazing games on the Wii. No, most of these games aren't FPS shooters (although some are). I'm not gonna lower myself to resorting to "the list", because frankly if you don't know what games I'm talking about, you have a really short attention span, or lack the ability to read.
EDIT: Actually it occurs to me that maybe you truly, honestly don't know about these games. Although how that is possible is beyond me. So anyway here's The List:
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Paper Mario
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Metroid Prime 3 (actually the whole trilogy is now on Wii with updated controls)
WarioLand Shake It
Mario Kart Wii
That is off the top of my head. These are just the first party games since the release of the Wii. What other company have released that many games in that short span of time? And they are all incredible games. I mean there's also a bunch of awesome third party games, but it'd take all day to list those.
Anyway here are some upcoming Nintendo games (again, just the first party ones I can think of off the top of my head):
New Super Mario Bros. Wii (comes out next week!)
Mario Galaxy 2 (sometime next year)
Metroid Other M
Remember folks, this is one company releasing this many kick-ass games. It's dizzying to think, really.
And hey, if you're like me and you like older games too, the VC has pretty much every awesome game from the NES, SNES, and N64 consoles. I've put more hours into Ocarina of Time, which I procured for $10 off the VC, than most "next gen" games I spent $60+ on. In fact, every Mario and Zelda game (not including hand-held games) are playable on the Wii.
And oh crap I forgot about all the downloadable WiiWare games. Nintendo alone have released like a hundred or so highly rated puzzle games for download. And games like World of Goo and the Lost Winds titles are amazing, and very highly regarded as well. Not to mention great adventure games like the STrong Bad series.
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What is wrong with people? #wii
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That said, Duke Nukem Forever. #wii
11/07/09
For those that missed out, here's a review.
[www.escapistmagazine.com] #wii
11/07/09
I don't count Wii Fit as an actual "game." #wii
11/07/09
The GameCube era was filled with experiments and new ideas too. #wii
11/07/09
You would be incredibly naïve to think that Nintendo hasn't relied on old properties more than any other platform holder. As far as consoles are concerned Nintendo hasn't developed a new non-casual franchise since Pikmin. Nintendo's risk-averse strategy is just boring to me, as a consumer, and it's part of the reason that many gamers are becoming indifferent to them. It also seems like a waste of the DS and Wii's success. #wii
11/07/09
Thats because they have almost all of the old properties people actually care about.
If Microsoft or Sony had anything on the level of Mario or Zelda you can be sure they'd be pumping out just as many games as Nintendo has, take MGS or Halo as prime examples.
11/07/09
I should point out that MGS is from Konami, a 3rd party developer so it's not Sony who are pumping out the games. And even as a huge MGS fan I think the series should have ended with 4 (or at least gone on a long hiatus until they decide to remake the original two Metal Gear games from the MSX2) and I'm not particularly interested in MGS: Rising. I was also disappointed to find out that Bungie are still making more Halo games, especially with 343 Industries apparently also working on other Halo titles. So it's not just Nintendo I'm critical of for this.
But you can't deny that Nintendo seems too reliant on their old IPs, and seems to lack creativity in this regard, despite arguably being in the best position in the industry to take risks and create new franchises. If you compare their output of new titles to Microsoft and particularly Sony in the past 2 generations, or even just this generation, then they're clearly lacking.
11/07/09
Second party is just as good as first party. Despite not being developed directly by Nintendo, they are still approved, watched over and supported by Nintendo themselves. Nintendo owns those developers and publishes the games themselves.
So apparently, the Metroid Prime Trilogy doesn't get counted as Nintendo games because they're by Retro. Or Punch-Out!! Or Excitebots. Or even Smash Bros. If you don't count second parties, then Sony and Microsoft have next to nothing to their names.
All you're doing is coming up with as many qualifying possibilities for saying Nintendo doesn't make anything new. They clearly support and come up with new ideas. You're just trying to pick things apart for no reason. And to say that Nintendo has no creativity when it comes to their own major franchises is just being blind.
11/07/09
Adventure/Platformer: Zelda, Mario, Kid Icarus
Racing: Mario Kart, F-Zero, Excite series
Strategy: Fire Emblem, Pikmin
Shooter: Metroid, Star Fox
The list goes on, and while some genres are clearly lacking (like RPGs and traditional shooters - strengths of the HD consoles) the amount of the ones that are is very small. The issue is that they're not using existing IPs, not that they need to make more of them... #wii
11/07/09
I don't understand the fascination with new IP. What's the point if it plays like every other game in the genre?
HD console gamers circle-jerk over how great Infinity Ward is when they've only released one IP that stays in one genre and play similarly. The same people complain and accuse Nintendo of just regurgitating sequels, not putting out ENOUGH sequels, and not creating new IPs despite the fact that Nintendo has many existing games that cover many genres already.
Would renaming the next Mario game to Incredible Maria Sisters REALLY make much of a difference when the play the exact same? Is it really that big a crime to use Mario in the title if it has new gameplay? Mario games don't exactly have a rich background, so whether you like or dislike the universe doesn't make much of a difference.
Here's another example: would FFX-2 have gotten a better reception if they didn't make it a sequel to FFX and just made it a spin-off instead? Would it really even matter in the end? #wii
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Not likely until Nintendo's next console... unless they do a DS version. #wii
11/07/09
After being disappointed with the pathetically typical ending to Twilight Princess and the "been there, done that" gameplay of Phantom Hourglass, we can be pretty damn sure, the next Zelda on Wii will definitely be...Link...riding a horse...saving Zelda and Hyrule...from Ganondorf....again.
Why couldn't Nintendo just give us a Zelda that was like Demon's Souls or Shadow of the Colossus? It's like they never pay attention to what the competition is doing and they wonder why Zelda's console sales have diminished over the years. #wii
11/07/09
Frankly all of those elements you described are what make a Zelda game a Zelda game. Change too many fundamental elements and you alienate those coming in expecting such and such. #wii
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the day a Zelda game shocks us and actually moves the series forward will be the day Activision stops releasing Guitar Heros. #wii
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I guess I don't follow you, Plunkett. Care to elaborate? #wii
11/07/09
Twilight princess was teased and delayed for YEARS, and then we found it was delayed mostly to be ported to the wii. That is what we are expecting from this one, not necessarily the porting (That would be disgusting) but the long long wait. #wii
11/07/09
TP is proof that you should
never rush a Zelda game.
11/07/09
...
Did you just call Twilight princess rushed? The game was delayed by OVER A YEAR. It was originally announced in 2003 that it was being worked on. It came out 3 years (nearly 4!) after that.
I suppose you think duke nukem forever was rushed too? #wii
11/07/09
The second half of the game was extremely rushed. A complete lack of story development, dungeon grinding, a lack of new ideas, and just a generally much more hyperactive pace made it very clear it was rushed. It turned out the game was delayed so they could port it to the Wii and mirror the entire game for some reason. #wii
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Either way, my point is that the prolonged development of the game didn't stop it from feeling rushed, especially since they took most of that delayed time simply porting it to the Wii, mirroring the map, and waiting to release both versions in parallel time frames.
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oooh well. #wii
11/06/09
I'm probably just saddened after playing DKC 1 and 2 on my SNES recently, hoping for a new Donkey Kong that doesn't involve hitting bongos. #wii