A serious step in the right direction, along with their cheaper (yet powerful) graphics card options. PC revival coming? :D

Going to the grocery store for feminine hygiene products? ALWAYS get the multi-pak with the different sizes in one box. You can't go wrong with the multi-pak.

What it probably means is that they're changing there labelling scheme for the new range of graphics cards that come out after the 9 series were on at the moment.

It's not too hard to understand. The more X's there are, the faster it goes and the quicker it sets your computer on fire.

Demanding that card makers don't put ugly space marines and fairies on their boxes would be a start

@DigitalHero:

Only if they integrate more than just graphics cards into a solution. While I wouldn't mind seeing a pc revival I think the biggest issue is the constant stream of upgrades you have to spend your money on. I don't believe that will ever go away either.

I think this is a wise step for them. At the very least, their product naming conventions should accurately reflect the performance level of said product.

Having remembered the good old days when you had to know the difference between CGA and VGA, I will admit that, if you haven't done your homework, it can be painful. Case in point: I bought a card 4 years ago, and didn't realize that it didn't "play well" with a certain AMD chipset. As a result, certain games would drop down to a 5-10 frame per second frame rate.

This can only be good for consumers.

How about working Vista drivers? That might broaden your appeal.

I know a good bit about PC hardware but when I am looking at graphics cards its still quite hard for me to know which is best. As one always appears to have somthing better than the other etc.

They need to just put categories and dates on the boxes so that you know you're buying a 9800GTXSAIXAJL!!1J - High-end - Summer 2008.

At least that way you know you're not buying something from 2005.

@Eville1: Constant stream of upgrades? Are you serious? What are you basing this on? Is it the fact that newer and better cards are put out?

Look at it this way. A car manufacturer comes out with a new model, but do you really need to trade in your old car for a new one?

My friend has a card from 2002 and can still run some of the latest games. Sure it's not the best but is good for a 6 year old card. And last time I looked consoles run on that same life cycle.

I thought Crysis was the standard in which your computer would remind you that your specs suck? :)

Good to hear though, since my brother just got The Orange Box as a gift, and I don't really have all the time to help him with his own gaming PC.

@Lokno: lol word.

Seriously, remember when there were only two options. the Geforce 2 or the Geforce 2 Ultra.

Please return to that time.

Wtf happened. Why do I need to know that my card is a 8800gt, when you (nvidia) just calls it an 8 series.

Just make a Lite, a normal, and an ultra. I dont need a normal a gt, a gts, a gtx. Please go back to our old original nominclature. Also you might want to stop producing so many different cards in the same series when there is little to no difference between them like oyu friggin used to.

Everyone knows they should just buy a (or a couple) of 8800gt's anyways. Make that model the standard. Make the GTX the Ultra for insano people and drop all the rest... what was the budget one? the MX? yea call it what it is, Lite.

I see a wall with about 50 different versions of an 8 series card, it get's overwhelming. When I know wtf card is which and the 65 year old indian salesman at Fry's hands me a 8600gts when I ask for an 8800gt, things are getting out of hand.

is there much point? how many 'general use' consumers will upgrade their pc component by component?
saying that though, anything that could help is good.

@Lokno: Are you kidding? I buy graphics cards for box 'art' alone!

All I need is an add on for my computer so I will be able to play Peggle. My piece of crap can't even handle peggle. I feel so utterly alone.

They may be trying, but right now their product line is a cluster f&%#. They shrank the last die and gave it an entirely new name, but given that they had what 10 seperate graphics cards in the 8 series they kinda had to. So now most of them are renamed in the 9 series even though the improvements over the 8 series hardly warranted the name change.

I think they will have a better time in about a year when they have to redo their entire naming scheme, ie 10800GTX is kinda long. I look forward to this and am very interested in where they go with it.

BTW, get an 8800gt, still one of the best values around. 9600gt is less powerful even though it is a "9 series," thus showing an example of confusion.

The first mistake this new customer made was wandering into Best Buy looking for PC hardware.

More consumer-friendliness is always appreciated, though I have no problems with the current system.

Well good luck to them. The only way I see this working is if they take the time to match their products up with "mainstream" pc models like those from Dell.

Otherwise users would still need to do the research to find out basic things like if your power supply has enough juice to run the card.

I love nvidia a bunch, but if anything is more confusing... it has to be explaining ram differences to people... CAS latency etc PC3200-9999.. most people just think the higher the number the better.

In reality it is pretty confusing:
8800GT, 8800GTS, 8800GTX, 8800Ultra, and all the 512-1024 etc.. I really think dumbing it down still may not help. The people who needs it dumbed down most likely should buy apple computers. PC computers are mainly for the enthusiasts who grasp the concept of computer hardware. If not just shell out for the top of the line alienware/dell/etc.

But anyways kudos to nvidia for trying to target middle america.

@Eville1: Good god, The last year and a half has been horrible for PC upgrades, I bought both my nvidia 8800GTX and Intel e6600 on launch day OVER TWO YEARS AGO and they are still some of the best products. My e6600 Hits 4ghz on air so it rivals the new die shrunk e8x00 line. And most stuff does not require a quadcore yet.

Anyway... Thank god they are doing this with the whole 8800GTS 512mb thing... and then the renaming of the 8800gts 512mb to the 9800gtx good god they botched the naming system real good.

Great idea. Before I built my first computer, I upgraded an old HP that I had. Memory, no problem, but being a gamer I needed an upgrade in the graphics department.

It took me three purchases to finally get what I wanted. I ended up getting the top of the line card, but not before trying and (luckily) returning two slower/cheaper cards. I thought I had read up on the subject, but I guess when playing real world games, you had better be safe than sorry.

Maybe the kiosk idea isn't bad. Have three. One high end GPU, one middle of the road, and one low end. Try Vista Aero, games etc.. for yourself, and actually see what you get for your money.

Just get a console...

That's nice...I think it's a great idea.

I have to get back up to speed every 2 years when I upgrade my card.

Say hello to the:
- NVIDIA IRunCrysisAtMedium GT
- NVIDIA IRunCrysisAtHigh GTX
- NVIDIA YoullBePlayingSolitaire XT

This is some very welcome news from Nvidia - when I first went looking for a high-end video card, I felt like they trying to keep the information from anyone who didn't actually work for the company. In the end, I just went with the highest number that ended in "M", and got two of them because someone told me to.

If Nvidia would release a new card faster than the 8800 Ultra I'd be happy. None of that 9 series bullshit. I have an 1920x1200 LCD monitor and I need at least 4x antialiasing on very high in Crysis before I spend $600 on a replacement for my 8800GTX.

Good - it's really crazy that they've got these number and letter schemes in the titling that is just baffling. Took me forever to find the card I wanted because just a letter or two of difference could be two wildly different cards in the spectrum.

@GOD:I already have a PS3 and many older consoles. What is your point anyway?

i used to know all about that crap but I think I stopped after the Geforce 4. In fact I don't remember what came after it. I know I know a Geforce 8800 ST now.. or is it 8600?

My usual way of knowing how good a card is is by how much it costs, haha! a 250-300$ present time card will always run anything maxed out or almost.

It's true that they need to simplify their line of products but I'm guessing the only way they can do this is by actually making LESS cards.

Maybe 1 line per year, with 3 categories: casual, advanced and expert.

I could definitely see a card called

NVIDIA 10: casual.

You can't go wrong with something that simple.

Nvidia Geforce 8600 ST ? not so much.

@Clarke: Yeah well, the roads don't require the latest and greatest car for you to drive on them now do they? Bad analogy. When a new game comes out, for it to look and run at top speed you need to replace that graphics card you bought two years ago with the new one that cost 500 bucks.

*GT not ST.

my bad. I really don't give a flying fuck anymore. As long as it plays the games and there's no compatibility issues I'm alright.

(first post didn't show)

I meant to say that they should come up with 1 range of product per year, tops with perhaps 3 categories.

Something along the line of

'NVIDIA 10 Casual'
'NVIDIA 10 ADVANCED'
'NVIDIA 10 PRO'

Can't go wrong and that's simple enough. more than say, Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX.

I feel that ATI botched their naming scheme even more when they started introducing letters to the front of the cards as well as at the end.

Radeon 9800pro, no problem Radeon IX8750NT pro all in wonder 512 crossfire

ahh my fabled 9800pro, my favorite and last ATI card unless ATI really does something impressive.

WTF!?! Roman numerals now?? Yea...... I went back to nvidia after that. Course I remember when nvidia said "shit lets name our cards to match ati's so people can compare em and think oh shit this has a bigger number its better!"

@Lokno: I second that!@interstate78:
That would make a lot more sense than 9700vgfsgfdfgh

@interstate78:
Yea, I think it was all fine up until after the Geforce 4 then they smoked crack and started adding more numbers and letters.

I'm with you, the latest and greatest card is always around 500 bucks, then the one you should buy is always about 300 or so (depending on brand blah blah blah. BFG lifetime warranty ftw in my opinion). With a new card every 6 months, thats atleast 6 products a year... ATLEAST. Please stop! Just make a hardware revision to that years line and keep the same names, most of the dmaned time its the same freakin card anyways just over clocked more.

They should simplify it by going back to only having 3 God damned cards: High end, Mid range and entry level.
That's all we God damned well need Nvidia. Jesus.

I think the only sticker the average consumer is looking for is 129.99 vs 649.00. Either that or the apple sticker.

@Seventh: Wrong on one count: I think "dumbing down" is a very, very bad description (despite it being used in the article). I'm looking at this along the lines of making the names more explicit. Is a 8800 GS better than a 8800GT? What about the GTS? Wait, there's a 8600GT with 1GB, while the 8800GTX has 768mb. Wasn't more memory better? While I can work out the differences, someone who hasn't been in the loop for some time (as I would be if I weren't checking stuff online, as I've had to purchase three Quadro cards in a row - not pretty for the pc-upgrade budget)

So far, out of doing quite a bit of comparisons online, you're down to having price as a measure of performance - and you then might have to compare across brands and shops, and maybe bonuses and secondary specs change a card's price.

It's simply a matter of making it easier for the consumer to know exactly which card is right for them.

@Eville1: But you might consider the improvements in function and social status that usually come with a newer vehicle. You don't *need* a brand-new card every couple years if you invested in a decent one (if you got the $50 one, well...), but it does help quite a bit.

To be honest no matter how idiot friendly you make a graphics card box the average consumer won't have a clue how to install the card and they won't understand the dark satanic rituals needed to cleanse your system of a previous version of drivers in order to get the latest drivers working with a new game.

Plus the graphics cards companies have been preying on the moderately educated buyer for years with dodgy low-end cards stuffed with 1GB of RAM to make them sound fantastic when even 256MB of RAM would be too much for such an underpowered card.

I think nVidia would be far better off spending their cash on making an equivalent "Intel Inside" campaign for their graphics cards. They already have the TWIMTBP scheme, which seems to be working well with its deliberate shafting of certain titles when they run better on ATI hardware (*cough* Assasin's Creed Direct X 10.1 support *cough*). They should focus on making sure consumers know to ask for nVidia hardware in their systems when they're in their local PC World.

It's got to be a pretty tough outlook for nVidia: AMD has ATI and next year Intel will have their own graphics solution (Larrabee), leaving nVidia making cards for companies who have a direct stake in the graphics market. They could well find themselves getting the cold shoulder and x86 licences are extremely hard to come by, so making their own CPU isn't on the cards either.

@Eville1: So you're saying a 4 cylinder car is comparable to a 6 cylinder? Not all games are as high end as Crysis. Having a better card doesn't make the game look better. Go play doom with an 8800 and it'll still look the same.

It sounds like you don't even buy PC parts so why are you saying you need to upgrade constantly when you obviously don't PC game. And please tell me what all the "OMG SUPER GFX!" games are.

@Grive: I see what you're saying as social status vs playing the latest and greatest are both wants and not needs. The only problem is, will the 2,000 dollar car do eight mph just like the 50,000 dollar car? Yes. It may have worse gas mileage and other problems but it still fits your basic need of travel. An old graphics card on the other hand will not support the latest game. Driving and playing games are really not the best things to compare. That old 63 stingray will blow the doors off the new kia.

..And I don't play games for social status. That's almost the antithesis of game playing if society is to be believed :p.

@Clarke: Clarke, I am indeed saying a four cylinder is comparable to a six cylinder in the fact that they both get you from point a to point be and go at least 60 MPH. Everything else is personal preference. There is absolutely nothing telling you; "If you want to drive on this new highway we just built with your tax dollars you have to have a car that was purchased in the last two years."

@Clarke: I stopped gaming on a pc a year ago. Don't get into a pissing contest about uber fanboyism. I'm not going to list e-credentials.

Hopefully it'll make it easier to remember which video card you have. I've had a 6800 7600 and an 8600, but I can never remember which card i currently have in my comp because the 6's confuse the shit outta me. No big deal until i try to DL the drivers, then I'm baffled as to which one I have.

@homernoy: My point is...

Casual and PC do not go together at all. One day maybe, but they are not user friendly in any way shape or form. You can't purchase a pc and expect it to run on your system. You need to know far too much to even begin to say the word casual. i just don't know about this "new" Idea. I have seen other pc Hardware/Software companies try to do this before. It has only failed as you can see today by the poor pc game sales, and the confusion over pc gaming. From working in a games shop most people think that is they have "XP" it will work on their pc...

YOU KNOW how you can widen the appeal, lower your damn price. There's no way I can setup dual video cards...It's outrageous. I guess that's why I'm a console guy. Don't have to worry about getting a 2 thosand dollar system every couple of years just to play games. I do have a pretty good system, but don't really use it for gaming.

@Clarke: Not really a good comaparison. If gpu's were like cars, then you'd have roads that require X many horsepower to get 60mph, and if your previous car didn't have then, your looking at only being able to do 45 on that road.

PC games, to be played as they are ment to be played, require conastaintly upgrading your GPU and often your CPU and RAM to stay ahead of the game. I'd peg it at at least $200 a year in upgrades if you want to be sure.

A console, on the other hand, you pay $250-499 for, and it's going to play everything as the developer designed it for it's entire lifespan.

As for the main topic? Yes, its a very, VERY confusing market, for a few reasons:

1. Series names are confusing. Your average person has no idea whats different between a 8800gt, gts, and gtx. Toss in the 8600 and 8200 series, and assicated letters, and your looking at a mess.

2. Even if they do now the difference, the individual card makers don't always list their cards spec's on the box. So you might know you need a 8800gt, but how do you know if you need evga, bfg, XFX, etc's version?

@The_Foo:

I agree with this. Putting High end,mid range or low end would be good and the year and month is pretty crucial too. Or put PLATINUM, GOLD, SILVER so this way it doesnt look like the bottom end card is complete crap. Then when the newer cards come out they can put BRONZE, WOOD, PLASTIC to show how old they are :)

My suggestion would be to have a "unit" of average performance, and their name would be based off how many units they have. This is slightly more complicated than a Nvidia 10 Expert, Standard, and Casual (which is another good idea), but it is still simple and you would know that the 20X is on average twice as fast as the 10X at a glance.

:)

:|

:(

Works for me.

"PALiT NE/960TSX0202 GeForce 9600GT SONIC 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
$199.99

That's the name of the top selling graphics card on newegg right now. This is what the average consumer sees:

ADIF B983NFI/SIO93MM30O E023K9R2NT-0 LAHKDIFK IDFI29829N 324902-MQMF02 1-19ENI 3092NMGMMKSLOID 9N3I JEKD KKDKI - Retail
199.99

All they see is the price, and wonder it $200 is a good or bad buy. Is two hundred a high-end price, a low-end price, or a mid-level price? They don't know. They also don't if this particular card is under priced or overpriced. And Best Buy, Circuit City, and such aren't going to help the consumer make the right decision, they're going to help the consumer make the most profitable decision for the store.

NVIDIA needs to work with EVGA and others to start producing easy-to-understand names and product titles for new gamers or risk marginalizing all but the enthusiast niche.

It's not really the video cards - it's the whole system. Name you video cards whatever you want. Add a marketing term like "Gaming 2008" to every component of the system (CPU, mobo, OS, etc.). Refresh the marketing term every, say, 2 years.

You have to use one of the benefits of the consoles (known hardware platform), and leverage that into the PC world. If this doesn't happen, just forget about it. PC gaming will forever stay with enthusiasts.

I think a lot of the problem is not the names or packaging of the cards, but the idiots on the internet who give "advice" about them.

See, I have seen hundereds of posts on various forums where such people will state, often with some hostility, that Card such-and-such is "utter crap". Where as what they really mean is that the card didnt cost $99999999, and doesnt play Crysis on Very High at 100fps.

for the average user, a regular, even mainstream or entry level card will suit them fine, they arent bothered about maxing out games, but rather just playing them. And yes, whoever mentioned the metaphor about the cars was right. A lot of people think just becuase new series of graphics cards are released, that they HAVE to get it and all other cards are rendered obsolete.

I welcome a new noob-friendly approach however, but like I said, the problem is more about other peoples (fanboys, lets face it) attitudes to PC hardware. Think about it, if you were a noob to PC gaming and you bought a fairly decent graphics card, but then everyone online was like "omg that card is TERRIBLE you suck that card wont play ANYTHING seriously upgrade t3h l335 haxx", its gonna put them off big time.

Myself, I dont own a fantastic ultra high spec graphics card, although my processor and memory etc are pretty good. However, for the time being I can play all the games I want to perfectly well, and at the end of the day, thats all real gamers want.

@GOD: I do agree to some extent, but almost all casual gaming is done on the PC. Peggle like games are everywhere in the world of PC gaming. Nvidia is not trying to appeal to people who want to play Minesweeper. Integrated graphic solutions can take care of that.

They are talking about gamers, or future gamers that want to upgrade their video card to play games on their PC's. It's obvious that the naming schemes on these products are confusing. The specs can be confusing. I am not saying that they will be successful in streamlining the purchase and install of GPU's. I am saying that this i