Plsk1n

Well spoken.

Barum

People forget that Quixote was insane. He went charging in, Armor askew, to fight the horrible Giants and Dragons, when in fact there WEREN'T any dragons or giants at all. If ever a metaphore fit Jack T., this is it.

Barum

CrimzinD

Furiursa

Bricked

Skiam

Snakemor

robinandtami

You've alluded to this "legal situation" a couple of times. Can you elaborate for those of us who do not know what you are talking about?

robinandtami

The whole trial he completely misses the point of why he is on trial. He keeps trying to prove that the people he is fighting are jerks rather than explaining why or trying to prove that he himself is not a jerk. His whole argument was "these guys are really mean so it was ok for me to be mean!"

jccalhoun

Nice post.

Just so,I am wearing my "Why vote for the lesser of two evil's? Vote Cthulu;" shirt while reading this. :)

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

So for some specific complaints:
1. Several people have implied that ideas should be treated with equal status - that, say, people who worship Cthulu should get exactly as much status as people who worship Christ. The problem with this is the numbers - how many people seriously worship Lovecraft's R'lyeh-dwelling squid-head character? Very few, if any. How many people worship Christ? ~75% of Americans... if we were a proportional-representational democracy, 75% of schools would teach creationism... 75% of religious references would be Christian or Catholic... if we were a true winner-takes-all democracy, that 75% would account for 100% of results...

Interestingly enough, it was the religious (deist, Christian, etc.) founders of the American system of government who put in place the separation of church and state - who said that even if 75% of America is Christian, the 25% who aren't won't be forced to convert...

And to baysideSxoc: Again, you are so confident and self-righteous in your own anti-religious stance that you refuse to even LOOK at the people you accuse. You just call us brainwashed sheeple and try to belittle us as best you can... I assure you, I and practically every Christian I know are rational, intelligent, thinking beings who are no more brainwashed than we are literal sheep. And we're not irrelevant.

But why does every conversation about religion and the religious here, no matter how civil its intentions, degenerate into Christians and nonChristians throwing stones? Let's discuss our mutual fiend Jack, not our personal grievances with what other people believe, shall we?

omicron1

FellTheDabus

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Zombie_Moogle

You know, just like what happened in 2000, when the Florida Supreme Court ruled against the certification of Bush as winner, and then the U.S. Supreme Court overruled their overruling, saying that a recount was unconstitutional, or some other such bullshit.

Why do I bring this up? Because RE-COUNT airs on HBO this Sunday, and I've been doing some reading in anticipation of what looks like a good movie!

我不是中国人。

KM91

"when corrupt Christians stopped killing non-believers"

That still happens in parts of the world. There are many who would like it to openly happen in the US as well.

Also being told you have to pray or lose your job is being forced into a religion.

I suggest you look into how religious nutbags are infesting and ruining the military of the United States.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

That's why I said morals insofar as laws define them. :)

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Ah dude the month of December is more then one holiday. Plus Christmass is a pagan festival. It used to be illegal to celebrate Christmass in the colonies and in the United States funnily enough it was the Puritans and other fantatical Christans who made it illegal. Until the late 19th century when Christmass was commericalized Churches had their doors shut in order to prevent people from mistakenly worshipping on that day. Every restaurant was open, stores were open everywhere, Congress was in session as was every local, state goverment office. The Post Office used to run on Sundays till the late 19th century as well.

December 25th is not the Birth date of Jesus anyway nor is it that the right time of year.

Saturnalia, Winter Soltice, Kwanzaa, several Jewish Holidays as well as Moslem and other religions have holidays in December and Jan. Happy Holidays means all of those rather then saying each one individually.

As for creches guess what nimord when they officaly put up with taxpayer money and no other display is allowed then yes it has to be removed since it is favoring one religion over all others.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

Regardless, it's correct that they should stop threatening you with hell. An educated fundamentalist would note that throughout the entire Bible, there are less than 10 mentions of damnation to hell (I don't remember the exact number, but it's rather paltry especially in comparison to some other religions that believe in hell).

mistersneak

outofmind23

People like this Thompson guy are clearly insane. Religion is just another way of controlling and brainwashing people.

It has no place in the enlightened world today, it's ideas are being gradually eroded away by science, what would of once been a miracle we take forgranted everyday. Unlike a miracle it is repeatable because it's science.

Look at the recent advances in GM / stem cell and cloning. Surely tinkering with nature is a "godlike" ability. Soon it will be what could a "god" do that we can't?

I'm sure if one existed they'll be playing catch up soon!

Just wish the age of enlightment around the 18th century had happened sooner, imagine how far advanced we would be if authoritarian and repressive institutions like the church hadsn't called anyone with their own mind a blasphemer.

Religion is old hat it should be put to bed.

baysideSxoc

CaveHonkey

Now he thinks he's being persecuted unfairly for his religion when in fact he's just being denied the ability to persecute others unfairly for his religion.

With that, I don't hate him personally, but I could do naught but hope for his utter devastating failure.

fuchikoma

Some places there are overwhelming Christian influences, at my work place there are many Christians and Catholics and I'm the only one that doesn't practice either religion. Although, sometimes they'd try to talk to me about said practices or some are extreme and would say I'm going to hell. However, I am their superior and they then claim that I would get in trouble for firing them because of their beliefs. Unfortunately, my reasoning is that some of these employees argue amongst each other and don't put religion aside and are a detriment to production instead of boosting it by working together so I've never got into trouble.

At my neighborhood though, there is a big mix of bhuddists, jewish, and catholics and we all get along. These people don't preach, they just go to their respective church or temple and practice their faith.

This is just my place though, in some areas they have small communities that do have a 95% hold on the people with their faith and its difficult to avoid said message when they find their goal to be to convert everyone in the city to said faith.
As always, there are some bad apples amongst each community and some will act out against others and forcibly push their message on another to feel better and believe they aren't going to hell or w/e.

超外人

Pombar

17-A

Jack is right about certain material not being for children and thusly not appropriate for sale to children. But it is HOW he's put his point across that leaves so much to be desired. He has never come off as a reasonable person, he allows for people to perceive him as an irrational zealot.

To an extent, I don't want to see his livelihood taken from him, but I can't say he didn't make the bed he's soon to be sleeping in.

DoubleOh187

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Now I agree to the extent of the stupidity of the "left" so to speak with Happy Holidays replacing Merry Christmas and people taking down the creche. I am all for adding menorah and other memorabilia instead of not allowing ANYONE to display it. And I don't mean to accuse all religious people, just the pushy, vocal ones. And it's not the subject their being vocal about that bothers me it's their inability to grasp reality and that perhaps other people would be bothered by their demeanor. Hell, I was a week away from being ordained at one point because I lived above a teacher of theology and would listen to him from my balcony every night. I am an all around easy going, semi spiritual person. But I also happen to realize that no everyone wants me to stand on a street corner and announce my feelings to the world. And the people that do that get annoyed or downright mad/rude when you choose to keep walking.

..On a side note, I love how one person on a street corner is crazy, a whole crowd is a protest :D.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

mistersneak

moo083

nerdBOY01

@Eville1:
"There comes a point when their "Lectures" are in so many places it's hard to turn away."
Comments like this, combined with the constant accusation of "Forcing their religion on others" baffle me. For one, where are you where the Christian influence is so strong that you can't do anything without it being pushed on you? I go days and days at a time without seeing any Christian evangelism attempts, aside from the "God Bless" on homeless guy's signage. With McDonald's and Budweiser ads overwhelming them by far.
Do we complain that McDonald's is "Forcing their sandwich upon us"? Forcing of religion stopped when corrupt Christians stopped killing non-believers, so where is this forcing happening?

I wouldn't ask you to violate your own rights in order to tolerate something that you're sick of without fighting back. But honestly, I find it hard to believe that Christianity is so overwhelming in your community that you've got to be a hermit to avoid its message.

Listen, I get JW's and Mormon's at my door, just like everyone else. I tell them why I believe what I do, and why I don't believe what they do. We both part disagreeing but still respecting each other.
Where are people losing this capability?

mistersneak

I mean... FLORIDA.

Insomnia Bob

Ruglia

Daiden

acez2087

As for laws, some laws are unenforceable and the legal system eventually catches up. The digital age makes content distribution easy and difficult to stop. Draconian Laws regarding content are subsequently difficult to enforce. The law will have to adjust and seems to be doing so but the steady hand of the law changes slowly.

kingmanic

'This is my calling, this is what I was enabled to do more effectively as a lawyer.'

So he is going to continue his efforts, which have been completely without substantive results and have culminated in his (likely) disbarment, just now he'll do them... LESS effectively?

Is this possible?

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

So does that mean I can say I've been unfairly persecuted for not following his religion?

lostalaska

JoRo1986

cornunderscore2x

Indeed, I for one would tell Jacky the jokeman to get the fook off of his cross. Someone else needs the wood.

schwarzsturm

Green-clad Gamer Dude

ShadowMoses

Get off your cross, use the wood to build a bridge and get the fuck over it man.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

ROFLcopter

Tietsu

kingmanic

And as always, (now, keep in mind I am talking about something endemic to the topic, not your response specifically.) When someone says "Christians have a right to free speech, if you don't like it then you can blah blah blah.) Would be abridging my free speech as welll. It always happens on this topic no matter what. And why do most people aim their ire at "Fundies?" Because as stated earlier, they are the loudest. Of course we are going to comment on whatever is pushed to the front of our minds repeatedly.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Seriously, the man doesn't get it, its not because of his religion, its because he's being an asshole.

Ashkihyena

Why don't you cite the First Amendment as giving you the right to try and violate others' First Amendment rights while you're at it?

You want to spread Christian values? Become a preacher. Maybe volunteer in another country and do some good while you're at it (and coincidentally making us not have to hear from you). Just leave us alone and let us exercise our free will, which both the law and the Bible say we are entitled to.

Tiber

Zero_Beat

I entirely agree. I love Jack Thompson. Not because of what he stands for, but because he represents the extreme ignorance of most anti-gaming pundits in the world and the fact that he loses all the time and has gone so crazy as to be held on 50-something (I'm not looking it up) counts of misconduct etc. makes him a joy to watch. His track record of epic failure just elates gamers everywhere because we're assured of the fact that there are smart people out there who won't listen to bucking chickens like Thompson. They'll slap 'em down. Question their abilities. Remove their credibility (what's left of it). He's the guy everyone loves to hate because he simply has no chance of ever succeeding in his quest.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Indeed. There's many damn good reasons why there is a separation of Church and of State in this country. I can't believe Jack is pulling the whole "why are you persecuted me for my religion card". What a buffoon.

dead_red_eyes

Sollus

I don't think there are very many churches of any denomination that would want this guy as a friend.

Solaricide

Naw, I don't dislike Michael Moore. I envy him. Anyone who can exploit the general public for obscene amounts of cash gets my kudos simply because I've never been able to do it. ;) Still, I didn't make the point that he's entirely wrong or that his twisting of facts invalidates his points - only that he has an audience.

I don't believe that Thompson is without a point, either, only he's just the wrong guy to make it. I agree fully that games shouldn't be sold to minors. For me, it has nothing to do with religion or law - it's just a bad idea. It's no better than peddling porn to minors. However, like alcohol, there's absolutely no way to keep either out of a minor's hands, but at least make 'em work for it. Part of childhood is circumventing the rules that are in place, but at least you know you're doing some wrong so you're smart about it (or you get caught and five across the eyes). If a kid walks into a store and some pimply teenager sells him or her GTA4 and told to "have a nice day", there's no impending sense of doom to the act. There's no awareness (for some, not all) that there's anything wrong going on here.

As the only animal on Earth with morals (insofar as they are defined by laws, religious, practical or otherwise), we are destined to break them because, well, it's a rush. However, the definition needs to be there if we're to understand the impact of our actions. Like a dog, there's no difference between grass and the kitchen floor until it's taught. It might still go on the kitchen floor afterward, but it clearly knows its done something wrong and hoped to get away with it. Similarly, we have laws that are so lax, they're useless, but at least we know we're doing something that isn't exactly accepted - download any movies lately?

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Yes, Thompson is a disgrace to the Christian community, the gamer community, and the Christian gamer community. He is what happens when Christians act like their "hate everything without a cross on it" stereotype. But he is not representative of Christianity or Christian gamers... and he has a point, albeit a misdirected, hyperinflated one. It is this: Parents need to pay attention. The end.

It is not right to ban violent games altogether - after all (pardon my Christian), God Himself gave us the choice to sin or obey - but it is imperative that those parents who walk into the department store with wallets and kids in tow know what the "M" sticker on the box means. That's what Thompson and others should be trying to do - in limited context, to get the word out to those who need to hear it...

...and not to the gamer community at large. Because, honestly, although as a Christian I may try my best to get you all to believe as I do, you're big kids and have a choice. If you want to ignore the surgeon general's warning... it's up to you.

omicron1

I feel that Jack Thompson is one of the greatest things to ever happen to the gamer community. I'm serious! We spend so much time bickering and fighting amongst ourselves, dividing ourselves up for no reason at all, that we lose sight of why we are gamers in the first place. It took a single man to make us drop our weapons and come to peace with one another in order to combat a more real threat. Certainly, Thompson is not the only outspoken anti-gaming political/media figure, but there is no doubt that he is the face of the whole movement. I mean, who else is there? Leland Yee? He's not as fun! What a stick in the mud! But Thompson! Thompson is up and about! He's in your face! You can't ignore him! He's an easy target! He is the source of (and the direction we point) all our ire. All of us, fanboys, enthusiasts, NDF, SDF, MDF, PC clans, all of us are able to agree that this one man is trying to control and/or destroy that which we love. He has united all of us, and I think it's quite special.

So, if nothing else, we should be thankful that Jack Thompson is there to remind us why we love games so much.

megaStryke

NexusSIX

Wow, do you work for CNN, cause you just took that quote and turned into something to make him look bad? Not that I defend him or anything but his quote was:

"I'm simply making the argument, Judge, that my motivations - which I have tried to make clear, maybe to the point of nausea - are religious and that my efforts against the distribution of adult material, pornographic material, violent material, adult rated material to children is violative of the law as well as violative of Scripture."

He is making the argument that the treament of his words and actions are NOT violative of law/Scripture. And is it just me or does Jack Thompson look a little like Jon Stewart?

[URL=http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=97815249sj1.png][IMG][img167.imageshack.us]][/URL]

Lazlo

Keep this in mind, however. Jesus spent his time with prostitutes and tax collectors. The scum of society at the time. Practicing Christians that follow Christ's example will not go around "lecturing" people as you have suggested. If they do, they're not being good Christians.

Everybody blames "Fundies" as the problem with Christianity, while it is the fundamentals of Christianity which promote welcoming everybody with forgiving arms. People need to stop blaming "Fundies", and start blaming the people who have _STOPPED_ reading their Bibles. Those are the ones [Jack Thompson] that are getting on everyone's nerves .

mistersneak

Yeah, that holds about as much water as "video games made me do it", Jack. Prepare for getting the tar beaten out of you by the courts.

Salen

Mainly because it isn't a legal problem. When all you have is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail to be hit. You're a lawyer, so apparently you see everything as something that can be fixed by laws. Guess what? You're wrong. This "problem", assuming it is one, can ONLY be fixed by educating parents, and getting parents to... well... be parents.

GnatB

Why did he say this when he knew he was about to be disabled from doing it effectively...

The better question is when has he been successful? I'm fairly certain every bullet point on his Quixotic crusade has gone unfinished.

How can he even be less successful?

doubtful

Punkateer

I think this will be a serious blow to our friend Jack. What reason will anyone have for letting him get his message out when he has absolutely no credentials? No reason whatsoever, I hope.

boldspud

ShaggyB

DOC409

AgainstOne

dawimp523

films like Sicko exaggerate but there is a problem in the US with the health care system (bloated and more expensive then virtually any public system). Gun laws (Guns don't kill people, social inequality leading to gun crime does. Gun control likely isn't the answer but neither is rampant gun ownership). Youth (Most parents don't know what their kids like or what their kids do). You may dislike the man and a lot of the far left who worship him but it doesn't invalidate all his points. He had some valid points. Thompson has none.

kingmanic

StupidDufus

Wow, thanks JT, couldn't have said it better myself.

ianp622

And then I realize that Thompson and Kotaku have some legal history with a commentor situation so I thought I'd be safe.

Never hurts to be safe. But thanks for making me add another comment in this thread.

jonathan.

His religion may be his motivation for doing what he is doing, but not once have I ever seen it come up as part of the argument against him.

If he wants to be a lawyer to help push his agenda, so be it (he basically states that above). He shouldn't however be surprised when his conduct bites him in the ass. His possibility of being disbarred doesn't affect his religious beliefs in the slightest.

It must be nice to live in his world where everything is either black or white.

Khabi

I don't want the guy to get in too much trouble (even if I would like him off the bar), but at the same time, he really needed to question some of the things he was saying.

tehflyingwombat

Suberus

on a elated note, i hate hospital dramas. time to get a license to practice law and abuse it.

Starky

Why did he say this when he knew he was about to be disabled from doing it effectively because he's going to lose his status as a lawyer? Even his closing statement shows how poorly he can construct a sentence that actually makes sense.

DaveKap

The thing is, however, it just doesn't seem to be working. I dont think video games are looked at by the media seriously enough to go on about them for tremendous periods of time. Sure GTA and the like will get much talk time on our local news stations but its simply because its a "good story" to cover a time slot. Something to get the media talking, watching.

AnonUserAnonymous

Fair enough Jesus wouldn't condone violence or debauchery, but I don't think he'd be stupid enough to single out something so trivial as a videogame. Theres far more rubbish in the world to be annoyed at than a game.

Primebuster

No, sorry, that's executing them.

Well, maybe not even in Florida.

peAr nectAr

Michael Moore gets away with it because there's a huge demographic that basically NEEDS to agree with whatever Michael Moore says. They don't care if he's lying - they just like that he can spin it so it works for them.

Thompson, on the other hand, has a very, very small following (real followers), but most people see him as a joke. That's why he's so funny.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Seems like a simple solution to both problems.

ncsbert

Um..I never said I didn't know why. I was saying HE didn't. I'm a HUGE proponent of seperation of church and state trust me.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

PlayerX

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Not everyone is Christian; not everyone is a Pagan... not everyone is religious at all, sometimes. If we had a law that stated that everyone should stay home from sundown on Friday, and not do any work, nor ask anyone to do work for you, until sundown on Saturday (practicing the Sabbath), a lot of people would be upset, save for the few really strict Jews or Christians. While they constitute a significant portion of the overall Western population, they by no means represent everyone's values or beliefs.

I don't intend to make you sound like you dunno why we have separation of Church and State, but in case, that's my take on it.

PlayerX

Primebuster

megaStryke

Michael Moore has made an entire career out of lying and misrepresenting things to push his own agenda. Why can't Thompson also??? ;)

crescentfresh

NoahIdea

Crimson_Ryan

Sorry, but we have to grant you tax exempt status before that.

Truvill

I hate that kind of crap. People crying persecution because of their religion. Trying to be martyrs.

Tell him to go nail himself to a cross.

Roto13

Silverwolf

[ZTF]

this internet thing, you must be new to it?

kingmanic

i thought he was just an as who was ignorant of the subject matter.

guess hes just crazy.

Or playing a card.

underground_slacker

My dad is a Seventh-Day Adventist, and the rest of my family are Catholic... though most of us Catholics don't really listen to Cathol all that much. Nevertheless, my point is that I think JT is claiming to represent the interests of Christians, but I can say that nobody in my family is a doik.

JT can just kiss my Thompsons, for all I care.

PlayerX

The invisible pink unicorn encourages me to steal shit. Where's my immunity?

Bissrok

Truly a great week in geek history.

baberg

Or "points" for driving by the PTC I think?

Truvill

Wookiee1

megaStryke

I don't like how he is bringing christianity into it. Lying and misrepresenting things in order to push one's own agenda is not exactly scriptural either, John. No matter how just you think the cause is.

Crawl to China

...

:D

jonathan.

Skitzoap

rdldr1

Get him right in the Thompsons.

Jandlecack

Karma's such a bitch

lionkitten

Hopefully keelhaul him. Thats what I hope anyway. But being disbarred will be good enough for me.

FrigidAir44

rabidkeebler

Oh, and the daily business review has a copy of the loyalty oath transcript that John Bruce didn't want anyone to see. Basically closing the case with no issues.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

I was juggling while I chuckled reading this so obviously there was room for some confusion. I apologize.

jonathan.

Mikey G

"Disbar me, see if I care! I'm not going to stop. I'm obviously neither taken seriously nor take my status seriously as a lawyer, so taking it away will change NOTHING!

NOOOOOOTHIINNGGGG!"

Oh silly Jackie boy.

jonathan.

Still, I'd love for him to keep doing what he's doing because he's so entertaining.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Heleos

Dormouse II: The Wrath of Gryphon