freespeech

One thing for people to remember that are whinging about how "achivements don't give you anything" you're missing the point, the achivements *are* what you're getting in a place you'd otherwise get nothing.

Remember Vice City? Who cared if you did any of the taxi cab missions, it didn't add anything to the story nor was it even funny. But now since in GTA IV there is an achivement I know I'll be doing all of them.

I don't need a lot, just a little "attaboy", and achivements are just that bit of crack. Before achivements I never replayed a game, why would you?

SimianJones

man spell check really needs updating.

underground_slacker

they stretch out the game, make replays more interesting and get you to do things and go places you normally wudnt and i love that, half life 2 is a great exmaple

...then you have the infamous "1000 pts in 2 minutes" achievements of avatar.

the BEST achievement ever is in team fortress 2, as a spy ou wound yourself, disguise as an enemy character, heavy works best, yell for a medic, get the enemy medic to heal you and then kill them afterwards.

good times.

underground_slacker

IMO an achievement is an achievement. However, the method in which people respond to having them is what causes arguments against achievements. Some people regard it as something they have done to feel proud of themselves. Others develop a need to show it off and brag about it. When you factor in the points attached to achievements and that some people are desperately trying to justify their playing of video games, it becomes a bragging contest that bothers people and sets off competitive behaviors within a flawed system that can't appease every type of gamer.

The article mentions "squeezing every last drop" out of games--but for who? If you are doing it to know you got your money's worth, you do not need points to tell you that you have finished completing everything a game has to offer. At the very most, a percentage system within the achievement system would be an improvement for that (for example, instead of 1000 points, it becomes 100%). But for OCD completionists, it would become another hurdle that sucks away their lives. *sigh*

branny

Like back when, it was nothing to say "I've beaten 50 NES games". It was another to say "I've beaten Battletoads, TMNT, Ghosts n Goblins, etc." Now all lame AND skillful achievements blend together in one big vat of shit.

GhaleonUnlimited

I don't own a 360 so maybe am not in a position to judge but overall I think achievements, used badly, are kind of a bad idea.

Okay, that's a tautology, but it seems to me that a lot of the achievements basically boil down to 'do something repetitively nine hundred times', whether that repetitive thing is 'shoot an enemy' or 'win an online match' or whether you're trying nine hundred times to get through a level without using (some restriction), or whatever. And a lot of other ones are 'do something random that you'd be unlikely to guess except for reading a list on the internet'. Still others are 'do something that you're bound to do anyway as part of gameplay'.

A lot of games have historically had rewards for doing odd things. For instance if you see an unusual place in a level that would be hard to get to, in say Okami, if you follow that through there's likely a 'stray bead' there. These are pretty much a form of achievement, right? Loads of games have them. (And often they're boring and repetitive too.) Only difference is that it's game-specific and it doesn't get displayed online in any way.

I'm not sure displaying it online is an improvement, is all.

quen

roy1751

I agree with things each of you said. In some ways Achievements are addictive because they become a permanent part of your Gamer ID. I like them because they encourage me to get more out of my games and increases their replay value. On a rainy day, I've pulled out older games on many occasions simply to try to unlock some achievements I haven't earned yet.

Like a few of you said, I also like the achievements that force you to do something you wouldn't normally do in the course of playing the game.

As one of you pointed out, Half-Life Orange Box was full of great achievements. I all played through all of Episode 1 only firing one bullet, because it was a fun challenge. And in episode 2, I actually took the time to carry the Lawn Gnome with me till the very end, so I could shoot him off in the rocket and get the achievement.

LOL, there's no way in hell I would have done that had I not received an achievement for it, but doing that was fun, and actually accomplishing it felt like a right of passage that others can see I passed when checking my gamer profile.

Like one of you mentioned, I too like to check my friends' profiles to see how far they have progressed in their games and what achievements they have unlocked. It kind of becomes a healthy competition to see who can get what achievements.

Although I don't tend to buy games to unlock achievements, I sometimes consider achievements when buying a new game.

I could have skipped on Rainbow Six Vegas, since I had the first game, but I bought it -- in part because I figured the game would be good and I could unlock more achievements. So yes, I suppose achievements affect my purchasing decisions to some degree, but I won't purchase a bad game simply because it has easy achievements.

Anyway, just my two cents.

DugDawg

PixelPeZ

Normally I wind up saying some variant of "they're called Achievements for a reason. what's the fun in cheating to get them?" and they either go silent or call me a fag. Dickheads. I wish there was some method of reporting them. although the sheer volume of work that would generate for whoever received the reports would probably drive them to leap off the closest available cliff.

@I am ERROR: I love that little pop-up. It happens infrequently enough that it always surprises me. It's the virtual equivalent of having a friend who's watching you play and cheering you on, which is very handy 'cause if you're chasing achievements then you probably haven't got many friends. ;)

freakout

I do know people who have over 25,000 though, and play most games for the points.

kylo4

Just wish they didn't always fall short and limit the number of achievement points in any one title to around 1000. I mean there are some obvious achievements that could have been added to GTA IV (perfect score in bowling anyone? turkey is easy, though I'm still working on perfect) but weren't simply because they couldn't fit them in.

thor79

D Mitsuki

They get us going until we become smart enough to suddenly kick that thing off our backs for the bite.

Ultrasinc

thinred

Well said. If I feel that I want to spend some more time on the game, I go for achievements. Otherwise, I just play it to finish.

stikves

Their purpose? they give you goals and things to explore way past when you've finished a game. The Half Life 2 gnome launching is the best example.

The best thing about them? you're free to accomplish them or not.

interstate78

I guess I'm saying that because my two 360 owning friends are uber achievement whores.

KevanB

WrenixPhight

I agree with both of you. I do wish they were secret, but then people would still find out about them regardless as someone would get them.
Some achievements aren't really achievements though.

超外人

Mpalm.

Like take Galaga on xblive. Anyone can get the 200 max achievements on it, but what is their actual score on it? And everyone knows the GH3 achivements are just a load.

That being said, there are tons of good ones as well.. but I guess my point is at the end of the day, due to all the flexibility and variation, they're sort of a b.s. gauge of anything really.

room88

ninjikiran

VakeroRokero

Get achievements makes me sooo happy.

Lainface

Turael

mcool93

However, I'd like to see less emphasis on the online play achievements because they often ruin teamplay.

B1S1

Heyyou27

leetXcore

fuchikoma

4. The only achievements I ever get are the ones I get by accident and the "unmissable" ones.

5. Achiev-what? Oh, you mean the thing that pops up every so often with the little sound. So that's what it is!

Antiterra

Don't you mean "Fragnet" school? ;)

...I'm sorry, that was terrible.

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

migz

I Spit On Your Comments

peAr nectAr

KM91

Orionsaint

aevanko

Mizuki

2SBs

nypad5

Replica23

Exia

As for my name, it may have been a miss-translation, I'm not sure. I just think it sounds cool.

I am ERROR

I do agree that achievements in multiplayer are not so good though, just like robinandtami said above.

aevanko

they add a sense of accomplishment. and a fun way to track progress with other friends.

what you or they were able to do.

it challenges you to do things a certain way

love the Achievement unlocked logo

Dakobah

I was perfectly happy before we had achievements, and I simply used word of mouth to compare stats and whatnot with my friends who game. I couldn't care less about the actual points, I just like the "achievement," denoting that you accomplished one thing or another.

I'm a bit of a stat nut (especially for games like GTA), and so I'd be more than satisfied even if they nixed the whole achievement points concept, and simply made game statistics public (or provided a public option).

Tittery

robinandtami

Now I going to look up the reason for "I am ERROR" in Zelda 2. Was is that guy's name or an error in programming?

SAKY

Yeah, this is how I feel too. The exemplary achievement, IMO, is in Half-Life: Episode 2, when you have to shoot the gnome into space, simply because it's harder and more random than anything else, and you're rewarded for doing it.

Achievements for doing something that you can't finish the game without doing are pretty terrible, although insane feats like passing TTFAF on Expert in GHIII are worthy.

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

I am ERROR

MattB

SkutSkut

TheDoomer

bigman88zz

I tend to like when a majority of gamerpoints can be obtained by playing through the story, plus some cool side tasks that require a little thought to get.

DesmondHume

rainking187

DukeOfPwn

Lockenator

I think of it like this, if I enjoy the game I will get more re-play out of a game with achievements and if I dont like the game then Im not going to bother with getting them just for points.

I also agree with the Dead Rising comments. So much fun.

H2oGatesy

JKPierce

Struct09

Lockenator

vega480

I like the way you think..

enewtabie

;)

Seriously, though, like I say in my post, achievements can be a good and a bad thing. It's entirely down to how you use them, and of course, how clever the games' developers are when it comes to implementing them!

A little bit of me is in all 3 of the camps you mention above... I recently got GTA4, and it's the first GTA game I've played since the second one, so I think the achievements ad a lot to the (already excellent) experience.

Anyway, great thread, and I'll keep checking up on it. It's great to see everyone's opinions on the subject.

SmellyGeekBoy

J-Fro

SkutSkut

Example: driving with the gnome in Half-life.

Kanik

When their is an actual point or motivation to getting them,then i will bother.So far the only games which iv actually went out of my way to do this were Uncharted and Ratchet and Clank Future (and Resistance to a lesser extent).

Id probly place uncharted as the best for it,unlocking achievments would give you concept art,making of videos,cheats,new character models,filters (lol at nex gen filter,turning uncharteds beautifull colours nex gen brown).

Developers need to give me an actual reason to go after them,because a big number beside my name just doesnt cut it for me.

Tom Clancy's Samuraidino

Spiraltribesman

trunk3h

well said, agreed about devs being lazy with them, achievements should be there as the extra reward not the reward, OR they should entice you into doing something cool or something you normally wouldn't do in a game, like exploding 10 cars in 10 seconds in GTA IV (sorry can't get enough of that bloody game!)

excel_excel

Roto13

Final

Final

The problem is, Dead Rising is pretty much the ONLY game to do that.

Archaotic

enewtabie

See, Dead Rising actually gave rewards for the achivements, which was neat. Zombie Genocider, one of the hardest ones to get, gave you the Megaman Mega Buster for use in game. A lot of the other achivements would unlock extra costumes, etc.

And the Bioshock ones, they just had those humorous little pictures beside them that were worth it alone. When I got the 'Irony' achivement, I giggled. Because the achievement was 'Secret' so I had no idea I was going to get it, and unless you looked at a faq (which I didnt) the method in which you get it was rather surprising and made me guffaw quite a bit.

Komrade_Kayce

Personally, I could do away with points and gamerscore. But the achievements are nice.

For example, I like going to my friends games and going 'neat, they beat such and such a game, or managed to do this thing'.

This is why I really enjoy when the achievements get creative. Bioshock and Dead Rising are probably the best examples of this.

Plus, I've noticed I tend to keep my attention span to a title for longer now, if only for the achivements. I'll beat it, than rather put it down and never touch it again, try for some of the trickier things to do in the game. Beat GTA IV on tuesday, and I've been trying to do that stupid five car roll thing since then.

The points just mean people end up renting Avatar, or playing through the horrid King Kong.

Komrade_Kayce

Then again, apparently the vast majority 360 fanboys could care less...bleh. I'm still utterly dumbfounded by the people who cite achievements as their key selling point for the 360 version of multiplatform games. Are they that shallow?

Archaotic

As for unlocking stuff, I agree that Dead Rising and a few others have been the only ones to do it well.

Foxstar Sixtail

excel_excel

Friend: I have 500 gamer points already from Game X! I'm up to 7300 gamerpoints!

Me: Did you catch that funny side mission where Main Character falls into a sewer?

Friend: No. Is there an achievement for that?

Me: No, it was just funny.

Friend: Well, maybe I'll check it out once I finish getting the points.

Yamen

Grumpz®

enewtabie

At least I got a free copy of Contra out of it...I guess...

Personally, I think achievements are kinda silly. I don't need a game telling me how to be creative for playing it. Instead of rewarding me with a "blink" sound effect, and an arbitrary number, the games should be rewarding me with actual playable in-game content. Very few games on 360 seem to do this, and I don't know why.

In fact, Dead Rising is pretty much the only game where the achievements unlocked actual in-game stuff that mattered...at least, that I can think of.

Archaotic

Orange Box

Submissive
Put the can in the trash.

Defiant
Hit the trashcan cop with the can.

Flushed
Kill an enemy with a toilet.

Targetted Advertising
Pin a soldier to the billboard in chapter Highway 17.

OSHA Violation
Kill 3 enemies using the crane.

Terrible achievements include:

Any beat this level/game on easy,medium,hard.

Win # of Ranked games.

Kill # of enemies in a ranked match.

Find all pigeons, flags, weapons etc.

Be #1 ranked player in the world.

Beat the game again as another player.

2SBs

Dorphat the Insomniac

MoaM

kaish

Achievements done wrong can cripple a game or be so easy as to be pointless.

Foxstar Sixtail

My favorite thing still achievement-wise is that I have 54 hours on blue dragon and like 30 achievement points.

Grumpz®

TechnoDestructo