fenderfuel08

Zazu_Yen

NeoStarr

LeLoi

Trust me, I'm a doctor

At leased i know it won't happen on the Wii, but even if we did have a voice feature,
the said gamer will be defeated by a 8+ digit "Friend" number.

hehe. now that's what i call a "security" feature right there.

@DigitalHero:

I agree. the Nintendo Wii certain won this race.

like you said, nothing matters, as long as your having fun.

:)

Onizuka-GTO

Foxstar Sixtail

BitKid

Shiryu

This didn't worry be initially because I believed that Cell was this magical cornucopia that would eventually allow the PS3 to do things that would make Microsoft execs soil themselves but after Hideo Kojima's recent avouchment that there really is nothing spectacular behind the giant curtain, I've started worrying. A lot.

cheeses

Sony has the longevity mindset, acknowledging that while the onset of the PS3 will be plagued with difficulties, when the Wii and 360 die down, the PS3 at that point will be a household name, and the PS3 is constantly evolving. Not only are we witnessing the evolution of the OS, but we're seeing different models of the machine! Hence Sony, while giving developers a system they can get familiar with, are also appealing to consumers by giving them something new to purchase, hence a new PS3 model with a certain gimmick is ever so often released -- be it a Metal Gear Solid bundle or a Resistance bundle. We can only expect more of such in the future.

So in the long run, we will have a system that has become the standard, while MS and Nintendo would have to re-establish their footing with their new consoles, having to go through the whole introductory phase and garner third party support, which would by then be firmly vested on the PS3.

For some spectators it may seem to come together just now, but for Sony, it seems as though they knew what they were getting into when they took the risk of introducing such a new architecture as the cell and a new media as the Blu-Ray. And that's what I admire in a company: balls. No other company in this generation had the same capacity to invest in such risky technology. MS didn't quite do it, as a matter of fact people had criticized the 360 as an Xbox 1.5. Wii revolutionized the gaming world, but the console's price alone shows that even if it failed, Nintendo wouldn't have lost much, definitely not as much as Sony with the PS3.

So well done, Kaz. You were honest with the system's initial shortcomings, yet you're able to see the big picture and get a bunch of non-believers to see reason in Sony's zaniness. God bless you, man!

ChiChi_BBQ

Sonovius

I think you mean 2.5 years since the 360 launched.

--

@henri1kk:

I agree completely!

The PS3 will look sad compared to cheap PCs before age 5 (2011).
There's no need to wait until 2016!

Of course the 360 and WII will both see sequels by 2011. That's natural. Hopefully BC will be well implemented and the transition will be a smooth one.

If Sony isn't ready or wants to say "the next gen starts when we do" they will get buried by their two competitors.

If you look at any game system, the most important games are not coming out in year 7 or 8. God of War 2 may be excellent but it is just sequel to GoW; nothing original. Guitar Hero 3 is not the PS2s contribution to gaming.

kNZA

Dr Terror

Replica23

vamponymouse

Hansel

Frank

mcool93

That's sarcasm... right?

Silent Predator

todde7

@DaveKap: This gamer's "salt" will not be determined by owning a PS3 this generation. I will certainly find ways to play it when great games come out (I can play it at a friend's house, for example) -- but insisting that gamers must spend $1000 on hardware costs alone just to prove their worth is ridiculous.

Huckleberry

Barf#1

No, but out-selling two generations of all your competitors products with one of yours does.

Doshu

Barf#1

Yeah that's probably true. Or at least it would have put much more strain on Nintendo than Sony and Microsoft because Nintendo is purely a video game company. Although actually Im pretty sure that outside of HDTVs sony is doing very poorly right now and they're losing quite a lot of money.

I really liked your post. Its nice to see some well thought out and intelligent comments on here.

CCCombobreaker

Jac21

Since it looks as though no one will be "winning" this generation, that tactic won't work anymore. If anything, years from now the PS3 will be a 1st-party inhabited plain, much like the Nintendo consoles. But if they do wind up supporting the PS3 beyond it's death (or, alternately, the Cell processor doesn't turn out to be another Emotion Engine), I applaud them.

Xiedo

It's not the same logic, the Dreamcast was losing money. It didn't help that backups could be played without even modding the console. Plus Dreamcast was part of the PS2 generation. The Saturn was part of the PS1/N64 group.

It's simple, the product with the longer life cycle curve will make more money. If MS releases a new console before Sony does, then you should ask WHY they had to release it early in the first place. Are they really trying to jump ahead of the pack? Or is it because their current product matured early and began to decline in profits so they needed to put something new out?

Out of the three, the PS3 is the only one that hasn't been cracked.

UmeShoryu

DigitalHero

Though that would make the PS1 and PS2 winners of everything since they have enjoyed being the two systems with the longest production cycle ever. I think GameBoy wins the longest Handheld production by default, so far.

Laughin_Caulk

So true. The retards on Live just make me never want to play my 360 online.

It's like all the scum in the gaming world can be found in halo 3 live matches...really, thats a fact!

fenderfuel08

Under that logic if sega kept the dreamcast out 5 years after the PS2 launched they could say that the dreamcast was the leader of the PS1/N64 generation.

If sony beats MS before MS releases the next xbox then its fair to say they won, but this "yeah we'll win because we'll stick around after our competitors move on" logic just doesnt work for me.

fenderfuel08

Datheron

They didn't though. This generation Nintendo took some big risks, and they've payed off bigger than anyone predicted.

Zazu_Yen

Netnavi

KM91

Netnavi

I would have made the same comment if someone had said the next PlayStation would be bug free.

Zazu_Yen

I don't see why they should keep innovating. Why not just stick with proven technology. The PS4 should just be two PS3's strapped together. R&D = done!

Just kidding.

Considering the design of the Cell, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. They could use 2 or 4 of them in the one system, giving 12-24 cores. All the existing dev tools would work, the cost of the Cell would be way down, R&D costs would be minimal and backwards compatibility would be a given.

Although, I'd go for a more powerful GPU (or maybe just use SLI).

Doshu

It's not just about being afraid of RRoD or wanting Blu-Ray or whatever; all the consoles are flawed, and pretty mcuh since the N64 and PS1 era, I'm dying to see what's next after a couple years, and ditch them (with fond memories, of course).

A lot of good games are still coming out on the PS2, but that doesn't mean the 10 year cycle is a great thing...because, now they just use worse hardware.

SuperMaxZero

JokesJokes

dude49

That would be falling into the fallacy that Sony Computer Entertainment Japan is the same as Sony BMG Music Entertainment. Sony is cut up into silos that function as if they were their own companies. To me Sony Group looks like a Keiretsu where Sony Corporation takes the place of a bank. Kind of scary when you think about it... but my point is that wasn't the game division's doing, and the people who made the decision to use the rootkit probably were nowhere near high enough ranking to dictate that kind of policy to more than one Sony company.

But fair enough, if someone gets them confused it's Sony's fault for calling them all "Sony [insert keywords]"!

Also, "You gotta be a complete moron to actually think that Microsoft [would] make a faulty system again" after the original XBox as well. The DVD drives failed about as bad as a PS2's, but one version of the power supply tended to throw sparks and occasionally ignite due to a poor solder job. The fix for this was a power cord with a circuit breaker on it so that if the thing started arcing too badly or shorting out it would cut the power to limit their liability. That's such a crass way to deal with a defect that could burn your house down that it's stunning. It would have cost a lot to send that bunch in to a repair centre to have a half decent technician apply four drops of solder to it and ship it back compared to mailing out power cords with emergency cutoffs and leaving the systems broken and limited to just shorting out a little bit.

I think mainstream acceptance and commercial success determine the quality they're willing to put out so long as repairing them doesn't put the game division into the red. This is why I'm so dismayed to see people happily buy a second, third, or fourth 360 to avoid the warranty wait period when they RROD or otherwise become unusable. I also cannot believe they haven't spent a little money retooling their shops to fix it, or even release a true 2nd gen case redesign that changes the layout a bit, cools better, and internally uses proper solder joints of leaded, or better lead free solder than the brittle stuff they have now.

...but if it's more cost effective to use cheaper parts and replace those that break down, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

fuchikoma

Fallible

The PS3 offers something completely different, not that it's games are completely different but in it's general usefulness. Sony like using the word 'future-proof' around and with the PS3 I think they've pretty much hit the nail on the head. They took a gamble with Blu-Ray and it has payed off.

The Wii, I feel, provides a refreshing alternative from both and should stay around for a long time to come. And, from what I've heard from my 'hard-to-the-core' friends, owning one pretty much means you own either a 360 or a PS3 as well.

Anyway, I'm slightly tired, I can't tell if this comment makes sense or not.

Fallible

I've been a gamer for over 25 years, but after decades of "supporting" Microsoft products I refuse to have an XBox in the house (any version). It's bad enough that I have to use Windows for my PC gaming.

Doshu

Wolfers

There will be people with all three consoles, but they'll be a definite minority.

spiderweb1986

kitkatu

Anyway one can't say the Wii won't last past the 5 year cycle I mean the gameboy had a 7 year cycle because of its huge success and I think we have already learned that Graphics looking dated isn't on the average consumers mind with the DS and Wii's success.
So I would say it would be tough to call but I don't see the 360 going past the 5 year cycle because they are going to need more space for the bigger games that people are wanting.
I personally hope that things get more evened out during this race so that there is more competition meaning better deals for us. Because if nintendo wasn't so far in the lead they would have had price drops already and might put more thought into changes like better online play and expandable storage.

nightshade71986

I Spit On Your Comments

I was only stating people should try and experience them, not own them but experience them. You could have friends with the console or switch consoles the next generation or something. If anything your statement is a little pointless though, my comment on how you don't need to have all the consoles to be a hardcore gamer wouldn't even apply to your more casual gaming centric family group.

Llost

Zazu_Yen

But you are right. Nintendo has always prided itself in trying to give users unique experiences, some that work, and some that don't. In fact it could be argued that the Gamecube was something of a wash because they didn't follow their own roots and instead tried to beat the other console players at their own game. What was unique about the Gamecube other than it's media format?

So the Wii is really a return to form for them. Stick with what you know.

Zazu_Yen

I Spit On Your Comments

If people still find value in the PS3 after a decade that they continue to buy it, whereas the other consoles have since gone stale and Nintendo/MS are forced to put out new products in order to appeal to the wants of consumers, explain how PS3 didn't 'win' the race.

You can look at the sales the PS2 continues to enjoy today. PS2 is still generating revenue for Sony, think Nintendo can say the same for Gamecube? You can also look at the rumors that MS is going to release a blu-ray addon for the 360. Blu-Ray addon equals new product. MS is forced to adapt to market trends, trends Sony started by including a Blu-Ray player in every PS3 in the first place.

Kaz Hirai might be turned into a Kotaku joke with the picture of him holding up three fingers or the pic of him with red eyes. But you don't become the head of a multinational corporation without some business sense.

UmeShoryu

Graphically, consoles get better as they age because devs learn the ins and outs, develop better techniques and engines for the (very) standardized hardware, and as new effects come into use elsewhere, ways are found to approximate and BS them on consoles. Shadow of the Colossus does a load of things you just "can't do" on a PS2, all at the same time without breaking a sweat.

Conversely, on PC they just throw faster hardware as less optimized code that's still afraid to make use of all the features on a card lest it alienate those who can't use them - save for the top-notch PC titles that wow everyone. Generally I find the result is being stuck with a game where you have to turn down graphical settings and make it look worse in a way they didn't spend time perfecting, but it'll still run erratically, just not as bad as it would full-blast.

But otherwise, I don't think the graphical gap makes that big a difference considering how PC and console gamers are still fairly segregated into their own groups. When the PSX hit, my PC THEN could beat it graphically, especially for resolution, and it only got better. The games on PSX were so much more fun though, that didn't matter; and they worked without any more thought than putting in the right memory card first. Now, 15 years of gaming later, I can pop any of them in and they'll still work perfectly (or most will if I pop them into a PS3 or... "package" them for PSP.) No new drivers breaking old games, no new OS that misses a few, no new hardware the games can't recognize and work with - though that one's rare now thankfully.

So it's true PCs will come to outpace consoles graphically, they always do, but in the long run that doesn't matter much. Especially now that I have consoles that output in the same resolution as my PC, and look better/run smoother than an equally aged PC with dual video cards for the time being.

fuchikoma

Well, you got that half right.

Zazu_Yen

I guess they'll be right, but... I'm not sure I'd call that a "victory".

@Netnavi: I certainly hope not. I'm comfy with a 5 year cycle. Heck, make it 4 and make sure the tech doesn't become so radically different so devs won't need to start from scratch every gen, or give them some sort of XNA-on-steroids suite.

In 10 years time, the advancements in technology will make the best that the PS3 has to offer feel... well, quaint.

Grive

It's not that they didn't have the cash to compete. In fact most people don't know this or believe it, but Nintendo profited from the Gamecube. The Wii and DS are "different" because Nintendo realized that if they introduced new consoles that were nothing special the only people buying them would be people who wanted Nintendo games. Nintendo wasnt able to get good 3rd party support for one reason or another, and they had lost former Nintendo platform 3rd party exclusives like Metal gear and final fantasy. The only way their new stuff could be successful is if they did something so different that you would have to buy those Nintendo consoles to get this new gaming experience. Like the DS touch screen and the wii motion controls.

CCCombobreaker

enigma89

I was never really impressed with any PS console, so i'm more than willing to hold onto $500 - $600 that would go to the PS3 (with games) and enjoy the wonderful 360 until the next one comes out.

That is just the gamer I am.

I Spit On Your Comments

But they aren't taking the crown, they've made a new one.

Looking at it now it doesn't seem that hard to picture. Nintendo figured they didn't have the cash to compete technology wise with Sony and MS, so they figured "let's make a game system even grandma can play" and lo, grandma's are playing it.

Good for them.

Zazu_Yen

But I have the feeling that as Sony sets into its 10-year coast, MS will drop the next XBox as a preemptive strike, still half-baked, gooey, throwing sparks, with a "beta" sticker half peeled off it and it won't matter because the general public will have forgotten everything that went wrong with the first two, rush to buy it, and suck the wind out of Sony's sails again for a few years before yet another weak launch and slow build to a long tailed product.

But y'know... that's just total conjecture based on watching the games industry from the 80s boom on, and listening to gut feeling.

I guess the "alternate ending" could be consoles become an afterthought, MS jumps on the bandwagon with a Zune/tablet/phone thing, and everyone goes primarily handheld...

fuchikoma

2SBs

Haniko

My friends uses rechargeable AAs as well. He has 4. So 2 go in the controller, 2 are in the charging station thing. when they need charged he swaps out the other 2.

CCCombobreaker

The vast majority of gamers and families who buy a console are only going to buy one, and they're going to buy the one that they perceive offers the most fun for the money with maybe the benefit of being a DVR or HD movie player at the same time.

Zazu_Yen

[news.bbc.co.uk]

2SBs

EmeraldDragon

For Christ's sake.. he never stops with the anti-logic, does he?

Deebo's Bike

but...

Nintendo may very well have this generation in the bag. That would be a bit tragic considering it would go down as the first generation that was won without the core demographic. Frightening when you think about it.

But WiiFit anticipation is starting to reach "ridiculous" levels. I've actually heard core gamers saying they plan on buying it. Reminded me of Nintendogs and Animal Crossing on DS. Legions were buying those games and I couldn't figure out why...as I tried to get my digital mutt to stop losing our tournaments in the final stretch of competition.

MS did a good job with 360 but is hamstrung by RRoD and limited expansion options (I'm sorry, but if I stick a 500GB HDD in a 360, I don't want the machine to gimp the partition and only recognize a preset limit in storage, defeating the purpose of buying more than 120GBs) It has a robust library but Wii generated more anticipation than 360 ever did with a suspect library and limited tech. Not good.

Ps3...ahhhh, Sony....you were such bastards in the ten+ years running up to this point. You almost killed 2D gaming...something I'll never forget and the hype machine carried the PS2 until the Matrix was no longer your number one seller. You released a great machine with the 60GB PS3 but with no games and a ball breaker to develop for. Not a good combination. 10 years to take the lead? I don't see it. Maybe a number two spot since 360 will never sell in Japan and Europe isn't looking too peachy for 360 at the moment. who could have predicted this Wii success.

Talk about the proverbial monkey wrench.

Anyways...Ps3 is my first console of choice these days. It's getting a lot of mileage from PSN games, the MGO Beta and Warhawk and UT3. Wii is getting much love from Mario Kart Online (which is very addictive) SSBB (which could be addictive but the slideshows are still there if not as much as before) and a few VC games...360...well...RRoD is like the grim reaper hovering over the console as it plays. You can't see him, but you know he's there...just waiting. That's a dealbreaker so no love there.

Who knows, maybe Wii will fall off suddenly and Sony can make a run for it...who knows...

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Up until now they could get away with it because tube televisions had such low resolution and poor-mans anti-aliasing built in. The advent of HDTV has changed that, I wonder if Sony planned that into their longer life cycle adequately or if the continuing advances in video technology will force them to hurry up a PS4 to compete with XBoxes release cycle.

Interesting.

Zazu_Yen

The most important thing is not the console, but the game. We want fun and innovative game.

BlackFreefall

Llost

Candlejack, the problem with your argument is that the mar

Sqwerell

I wasn't including the Wii in my "projections" because we all know that its gonna be the "Wiiner" (sorry couldn't resist) this time around, I was looking at the battle between MS and SONY

@karasu is my homeboy: All I was saying that since I turned the vibration of in my controller, I forgot that it ever existed, and yes you have a point that if I wasn't able to turn vibration by choice and was forced to play without it I would have been extremely angry.

2SBs

No, I don't think so.

Jest

TOCATL

CCCombobreaker

I'd given the software and Live edge to MS, while Nintendo profits on hardware. You do have a point since Sony doesn't have the volume of the PS2 this time, so it's hard to pin point their long-term profit angle.

Forgot to point out the obvious, but like MS, it's a given that Sony has started R&D on the next console. As preliminary it may be.

SG79

Dirty tactics? It's not dirty tactics. It's a risk, and if done right it's smart. Sega did it 3 times in a row and it failed for them pretty much every time, but I don't remember anyone saying they were using dirty tactics. Whatever thats supposed to mean.

CCCombobreaker

People are putting PS2s in their cars, in RVs, in passenger jets and hotel rooms. I wonder that Microsoft didn't put out a cheap low-form-factor XBox. But then Microsoft has always been weary of splitting it's own customer base with self-competing products. I think they missed the boat this time.

XBox is holding strong right now on the justifiable strength of it's Live service. But Sony is learning from that and will catch up via firmware updates. The PS3s user upgradeable hard drive, Blu-Ray drive and firmware updatability give it much longer legs than the 360 or Wii can claim and as developers come more to grips with it's Cell technology (you have no idea how tricky using 7 processors at the same time to their best abilities is) the software on it will get better and better. As it already is. And it can serve as a pretty decent Linux box.

Yes you will see a new XBox before you see a new PS3, because Microsoft was planning another 4 year cycle and Sony wasn't.

I'm not saying this as a Sony fanboy, Mostly I game on the PC. I have a PS3 because my wife wanted something that would play a hi-def format and decided Blu-Ray was the way to go (thankfully) and the PS3 would get firmware updates, and can play games. So far I've been impressed with it as a piece of hardware, but the software availability has been anemic and I suffer achievement envy...

Zazu_Yen

Maybe I am a little optimistic for the Wii but I am basing it on the success of the DS. They modeled the Wii off of the DS. That is to say that the DS was an experiment to see if people would even like this concept of interactivity. How long has the DS been around? And it's still selling well.

Nintendo changed their game with the DS/Wii and I think as long as people keep buying them they will keep making them. At least Until Nintendo knows what will make them more money later on.

And though a lot of people own HDTVs I can see them all running SD DVDs and 360s running in 480p. The majority don't think about the wires too much and just plug it in like their old stuff. More people complain about "the black bars" on the DVDs so I think Nintendo can keep milking them for a while.

Unfortunately for us because Wii would look a lot better in HD. Even with the last gen graphics.

Netnavi

Who know how splitting the bill for multiplat games has already influenced quality. If there was only Nintendo, then who would waste time with Hi-def assets. If there was only Xbox who would waste time figuring out cell programming.

On the plus side, pressure between the big three probably has enhanced console online services more than it would have been otherwise.

gozirah

Sqwerell

tralfaz23

okenny :)

Unless you're talking about two years from now instead of ten, but even then I have a feeling we'll be calling this the PS2 decade.

Something tells me console fans are probably going to look back on the PS3 the same way RPG fans look back on PS3. SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Brentai

henri1kk

Ryosukekun21

I thought it was a big deal until I played Tf2 on the 360. It didnt have rumble until the most recent patch. I didn't even notice. Its still nice to have though. Besides if you're a 360 owner it won't really affect battery life that much. 360 wireless controller out of the box with AAs has a 56 hour battery life. the six axis(no rumble of course)has a 20 hour battery life.

Also I think people will still be buying Wiis by then. Kaz wants this 10 year console cycle, but just because its happened before doesn't mean it will happen again. I really don't see microsoft dumping the 360 either. They did that with the xbox because they had no choice. They had to cut their losses, move on, and beat Sony and nintendo to the gate if they were to have any real chance.

CCCombobreaker

Just kidding.

gozirah

@Rebel Without Applause: Doesn't mean we won't have the PS4. Heck, if anything, the PS2 showed that Sony needs to support both nextgen and current/lastgen consoles. They could keep up support for companies to release games on the PS3 while the PS4 is already out for another 3 to 4 years to hit the 10 year cycle. That's what I can see them doing as well.

@Netnavi: 4 to 6 years for the Wii? Wow, that's positive thinking right there. I hear market penetration of HDTVs in the US was about 20% last year, no doubt it'll be close to 30% by now. People are soon going to "see the difference". And they'll like it. I really doubt Nintendo will keep the Wii going without a console that outputs HD and boasts better technology at the same time for longer than 2 years from now. Or maybe I'm too half-empty on this.

Candlejack

Not to mention that simply, it's become a part of console gaming and taking it away is uncalled for. We've gotten accustomed to it.

I honestly don't think the PS3 is going to be so successful. I think they will be third in America always. In Japan and elsewhere, who knows. But I don't see PS3 being the PS2 of this gen at all.

karasu is my homeboy

It's a tough balancing act for the execs, I guess. Act too confident, and people would say they are cocky despite all the problems they are facing.

Own up too much, and people would say that if the execs themselves do not have confidence in the product, how can they expect the people to buy into their products?

I do prefer the current Sony stance though. I always thought it's better to under-promise and over-deliver.

rrghy

The PS2 is still selling worldwide after 8 years.

SG79

If anything, the consumer will lose because a longer console development cycle means fewer releases of actually innovative and technologically advanced hardware like the Wii. Sure, we don't have to pay as much to stay up to date as with, say, a PC gamer, but if you want those 1-to-1 lightsaber controls, thorough Smash Bros online multiplayer experience, and graphics that rival what DX10 is setting out to do... don't expect it in this generation.

All this talk about winning the console war is rubbish to the consumer and, in the end, only profits matter to the company - in which case Nintendo is just eating up the cake on software sales and Microsoft is eating the cake on Live subscriptions. Even if the PS3 lasts a decade, it'll be eating up crumbs if it doesn't set itself apart from the rest in some way.

DaveKap

Yea are you willing to shed another 400-500 in just 4 years again like the first X-box? I was happy with my Ps1 for 8 years and I still have my PS2 to play imports and I got a PS3 at Launch. I expect PS3 to follow in the PS2 footsteps as the next best console.

Ryosukekun21

Heh. This is different, though.

Just look at the PS2. It's been out for 8 years and people are still buying it. I see the same thing with the PS3. 8 years from now I think people will still be buying PS3s but I'm not so sure about the competition. Maybe the Wii but definitely not the 360. I think Microsoft will have moved on already to it's successor.

Buttah

As for the winner of the console war I don't think that we will have to wait a decade to find out who wins this gen. I am sure the winner will be clear by 2010.

2SBs

Nintendo doesn't NEXT generations. It NEW generations.

Lulz.

FigrotiLives

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

I Spit On Your Comments

Also considering how pricing has become a factor and I'd much rather the companies take their time amd expand on what we are using now instead of look forward so soon.

Wii will have a 4 year run I think though or at most 6. I figure it's like a gameboy/DS type of deal. Milk it until it's dry and get on with the next iteration. Nintendo doesn't seem to be running on the same timetable as the other companies now.

Netnavi

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

KEELr

It's true the lawsuits that will cripple the duel shock 4 have yet to even occur.!

trunk3h

I hope you never limited yourself to only playstation, because if you did then you missed out an a ton of great games.

silkylove

peAr nectAr

Just hope they don't get sued again!

ShirtGuyDom

silkylove

Datheron

Ryosukekun21

dirkxxdiggler

Double J

FullyShadow

Knight-Zero