bibowski

TearsandScreams

Oh, I think an actual DS2 is at least another year or two off. The DS is still amazingly successful, and it making Nintendo a lot of money, so from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense to rush in a successor to it.

Additionally, Seeing as how Nintendo by default has to make the DS2 more powerful than the PSP, it'd almost have to have about GameCube level visuals. This adds a level of challenge to designing the next DS.

Visual power tends to translate directly into an energy drain, so creating a chipset that can output GC level visuals on two screens without dramatically reducing the battery life is going to be difficult.

Another complication is backwards compatibility. The DS hardware is rather odd and may be difficult to emulate, thus at least some of the DS hardware is going to have to be thrown on as well.

Long story short, the DS is going to be a hard act to follow. Building a new machine that is powerful, stable, functional, affordable, and has a long battery life, is going to be a challenge.

Given the difficulties and what is at stake. I'm inclined to think that Nintendo is going to go about this very carefully, and wait as long as they can before releasing the DS's successor.

Another DS model however, is somewhat likely. Though it's hard to imagine a new model being that big a step over the DS-Lite.

WolvenOne

BPMζ

mcool93

biznatch

I don't know that I would pick up a new DS I haven't used mine since around octoberish outside of a powerouttage (who needs flashlights when you have backlit gameboys? :P)

demonknightinuyasha

@WolvenOne: while I do think a DS2 is entirely possible, something to add to your view that it would be unlikely, is the relative sweet spot of development costs that the DS (and the Wii) enjoy.

If they were to introduce a DS2 with say the relative graphical power of a gamecube(which would be the sweet spot as like the psp, devs could ideally utilize tech from the gamecube) the development costs would rise significantly if they were pushing that as a main selling point and expecting devs to also push that. PSP had this problem at launch, i.e. games that were expected to be significantly cheaper than consoles but costal most as much to develop. Hence the frequent 'porting' back and forth and reusing of assets.

Nintendo has already learned and taught others that competing on graphics is expensive and does not ensure success.

I do think the DS and (and perhaps the wii) should find a new sweet spot for graphics within the next 2 years, especially if one believes they compete for the same space as the psp. But then again I was the one that said the PS2 would be dead in the water due to graphics within 2 years after the xbox was introduced, so...
I wouldn't put it past N, for the DS2, to come up with something that was backwards compatible, has more to offer than just updated graphics(meaning motion sense/multi touch screen etc), can do Gamecube graphics if necessary and devs want to invest in that, and have it to market within 12-18 months. Would that compete with the wii then? Maybe.

Ehardergardens

More importantly, scaling the screens is a bad idea, if it's even possible - I don't know how most developers would code the touch screen, but if they used fixed values (which wouldn't surprise me, since every DS has an identical screen at an identical resolution), you're either going to have one hell of a letterboxing effect or scaling the image would effectively break the touch screen.

Trust me, it's not as easy as it sounds.

spiderweb1986

I think it's also worth pointing out that the links you gave are worthless - the only reason that Nintendo lumped the Game Boy and Game Boy Color sales together was to get it over the 100 million mark for a more impressive figure, and unless I missed it, the financial report is from 2006 and doesn't even mention the Game Boy or Game Boy Color except on the history page.

Given that virtually all of the Game Boy Color games after the first year or two were GBC-only with only a few exceptions (like Pokémon Gold and Silver), I fail to see how that means it ISN'T a new iteration.

spiderweb1986

One and two are really the same thing. Nintendo being hush hush about new DS games should really come as no surprise seeing as Nintendo tends to save their announcements for press events like E3 and such. A spec increase is simply silly, because it'd create incompatibilities with certain DS models. It'd doubtful Nintendo would create a whole new DS model just to combat piracy, especially seeing as how Nintendo DS piracy isn't all that wide spread. Downloadable GBA games would require substantial internal storage, and would likely drive up the cost of the DS dramatically, thus Nintendo isn't likely to do it.

Really what it comes down to is, that the DS is still selling fairly well, and although it's getting closer to reaching saturation, it may not have reached the point where a new model is required just to spur new sales.

I would also like to add, that for a new model to spur sales, it'd have to have fairly significant advantages over the DS-lite, which is a pretty big hurdle to cross. The DS Lite is already a fairly well refined machine, refining it much further, without changing it's core functionality, would be difficult.

WolvenOne

M

Actually, now that you mention it, dropping the GBA slot wouldn't have been a bad idea if they had thought of it earlier.

They could have had two models of the DS Lite, one that was slightly cheaper because it lacked GBA support. People sitting on the edge of whether or not to buy a DS would be sure to jump.

Of course, this being Nintendo, they are unlikely to do that as they are the only one of the three not to have multiple hardware configs.

Mact

1. drop GBA slot to allow thinner, lighter model
2. larger screens - not *higher resoluton*, just bigger, to appeal to everyone.

easy redesign.

the DS2 will be something altogether more exciting.

ren666

"...why not just keep going till it stops selling completely?"

you want the long or short answer?

short answer: they wouldn't do it if we didn't make it worth their while.
supply is driven by demand, even when that demand is manufactured by marketing.

slightly more of an answer for consoles:
blame MS (and possibly Nintendo if they hadn't) who kicked off the next gen early to give themselves a fighting chance. It worked well for them in some regards, and whether it hurt the whole industry to move to a whole new generation in pricing and development costs 'early*' is debatable.

*this is also debatable

Ehardergardens

Shaoko

"While DS has outsold PSP considerably, proving that it's not necessarily the most powerful machine that is the most popular, we would love to see the two combined. Imagine the graphical grunt and hi-tech feel of PSP along with its gorgeous screen being put to use in a DS. It makes the 'marginally more powerful than N64' specs of the current DS seem like a kids' toy. But Nintendo would never sacrifice the feeling of fun - the technology would just be a bonus. Imagine a DS with Gamecube's graphics. Yum."

They're obviously not talking about improving the form factor or making the chips smaller, they're talking about changing the system entirely. Which won't happen until there's a new platform altogether -- it won't be a "redesigned" DS.

And if they had said that Nintendo was going to release a new platform, I would have said they were even more stupid than before. They may release a redesign of the DS with a smaller frame, or glow-in-the-dark stylus or improved battery life, but they WILL NOT be releasing a new platform anytime soon.

Huckleberry

Aitrus233

NighTrekr

CarbonatedWater

bonnebonne

Backwards compatibility to DS would be obvious.

I would suspect this to be announced soon (next 6 months) and released in the next 12 months. The DS may get a redesign if it stays 100 percent compatible and somehow becomes cheaper to produce due to the redesign and adds features that do not break games or limit games install base options.

This doesn't affect their current DS games market at all, as many have stated is the reason for not having a new design. New games that take advantage of a new device are, of course, required and obviously will be limited at launch. This will offer enough incentive combined with backwards DS1 compatibility to entice upgrading.

Ehardergardens

Heck, they even sold both models concurrently...along with the DS as well!

TL;DR - the micro was an alternative, never intended to take a main place in the GBA line.

1080Peter

[images.businessweek.com]

Business Week notes that Nintendo lumped Game Boy and Game Boy Color together in their annual reports. Here's the actual Nintendo report:

[www.nintendo.com]

Nintendo did not consider the GBC a completely new iteration. Think of it as a Sega CD or 32X, only without the need to attach to anything.

megaStryke

It had to be done.

KM91

Shoulda bought an original.

I am terrible with handhelds in that I tend to drop them. Or let them fall off stuff.

Then again, the DS Lite is supposed to be pretty sturdy as well.
[kotaku.com]

+ Watch video

Mact

There also will be no Kid Icarus announcement this year, and no Pikmin 3 announcement either.

And Kingdom Hearts 3 won't be on Wii either. Nor will Resident Evil 5.

Mit

Even if they could just go on par with the PSP for graphics and then keep the touch screen I think we'd be onto something.

Joystiqs wouldn't hurt either.

Better ergonomics would be nice to.

Once Monster Hunter 3 comes out for Wii I'll start playing the Wii again. Monster Hunter Freedom is my current love in gaming.

mordennight

A select few?

[web.archive.org]

Mact

... I still have a fat ds >< I might need to upgrade to avoid further embarrassment :[

hrabbit

Doomstink

SwindleUK

Demonbird

Daisuash

@homerj: This would be the most useful upgrade for me. My arm tingles after playing NSMB for a long time.

FanDam

tk.

VakeroRokero

They've already lost the piracy battle - if a game can be loaded on a DS, the same system can load an R4.

And spec increase is rarely a good prediction for an existing console. It happened to the PSP... in a minor way... but that thing also has pretty sophisticated firmware to make use of it on games that don't know how to use the extra RAM otherwise. Whatever you do, you have to make sure older systems will still run newer games so your options for upgrades are very limited. Still, I'd love to see one with big screens and a WAY more powerful processor with software that smooths textures by default so they don't look like Saturn games. Good luck getting that from Nintendo though... even the PS3 doesn't do it and there's a system that lives to show off graphics.

fuchikoma

Naia

that said, if they added WPA support and VC functionality it might be worth the upgrade. of course if they did that it would render my wii nothing more than a $250 nintendo store access point.

i guess that would be better than the $250 paper weight it is now.

sharkilepsy

I can't play a DS for longer than 15 or so minutes without getting a hand cramp. It looks nice, but the ergonomics is horrible.

The buttons and control pad on the DS also feel cheap. I'm not a huge Nintendo fan, but one of the things they always did do well as give you quality hardware. That took a step back with the DS.

homerj

DONNYchiban

-Smaller fabrication process
-System on a chip
-Changes in battery life
-OLED screens
-More reliable hinge designs

etc.

So it isn't beyond retarded, it makes sense.

zoesch

Sailorcancer

With my luck, they will announce the new DS any day now, since I've had mine all of a month. (Makes angry face.)

HootieMac: Section 9 Reject

JorgieX

BlackIceJoe

TheManator

EmeraldDragon

Omatic

I just mentioned it a couple lines up, but Nintendo is more likely to finally announce new Wii colors than they are a DS revision. Even THAT is unlikely because the Wii is still a hot commodity.

megaStryke

megaStryke

The Game Boy Color was just as much in the Game Boy line as the SNES was in the NES line.

When you cease to be able to play the new system's games on the old system, it's not the same line.

Or are you going to argue that the PS2 and the PS3 are simple hardware revisions?

Mact

BradOFarrell

That said, if they do name it the DSA, "I CALLED IT!"

BMErdin

Damnit. Got distracted.

Mact

Please learn to read.

The GBC wasn't just a spec adjustment. It was a brand new system with games that the Game Boy could not play.

The DS wasn't just a spec adjustment.
It was a brand new system with games that the GBA could not play.

Mact

While I do think there will be some sort of new DS released at E3 this year, I think its interesting to focus on how it will do in both localized and international markets. I suppose this can't be considered a GBMicro for the DS because I'm sure that it will do much better than the Micro did and it should have more use than a novelty item...at least i hope it does.

Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make is Nintendo is changing the way these cycles work. You could even make the point that Sony and MS are doing the same as well, since the PS3 is bound to last longer than the traditional 5-6 lifespan.

TP/\C SHKR

Which absolutely sucks, because games like Four Sword Adventures would have worked brilliantly on the Wii/DS.

Kind of makes you wish that Nintendo hadn't discovered that you can make your handhelds and consoles do stuff with eachother until now.

Because the only problem people had with the GCN/GBA connectivity is because of all the cables you had to have. Those no longer exist. So... erm... Nintendo, get on it.

Mact

Because, honestly, I don't see that happening. It wouldn't sell. The casual fans soaking up the DS wouldn't buy a new system because their Brain Ages and Nintendogs work perfectly fine on their sleek little one-game-consoles.

The only hardcore gamer who will be buying a slightly improved DS are those who bought every version of the damn GBA despite the fact that the improvements were moderate at best. They then went on to buy both versions of the DS.

Problem with the casual market is that the number of people who buy the newest version of the iPod every year just to be trendy are not that common. Even out of those that do, I cannot see many buying a new DS.

Even then, what more can be done to the DS without making its new software incompatible with the old hardware? More brightness levels? Make it fit in a wallet? Make the microphone attach to an extend able stand? Maybe I'm just not very creative, but I don't know what else they can do with out making it a GBC -> GBA jump.

Mact

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Kayin

HAGE

--------------

As was already mentioned, DS still sells well and FFIV and DQIX are going to propel DS sales even further. if there is a redesign, expect a brighter, crisper screen and better battery life. not like battery life is bad now. Not bad for a portable that was expected to be a gimmick that would be crushed by the psp

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

el_rezzo

Link DS to the Wii so I can download the Super Metroid to my DS to take with me on trips cause I sure as shit arnt going to sit at home and play super metroid over gta4 or mgs4 when that comes out. Or I guess I could buy an R4 and run a snes emulator... or I could just do that on my psp... but making things legit is so much better!

Derigor

In other news, the hotel chain Double Tree will be planting another sapling and will upgrade their name to Triple Tree.

ncsbert

4. Every Nintendo handheld has had three versions.

Number 4 - every Nintendo handheld has had 3 versions.
Nintendo's handheld lines are the Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and Nintendo DS.
Then you say "Only the Game Boy and GBA had 3 hardware revisions" so it's actually not a lie?

Anyways:
Gameboy -> Gameboy Pocket -> Gameboy Color (1,2,3)
Gameboy Advance -> Gameboy Advance SP -> Gameboy Micro (1,2,3)
Nintendo DS -> Nintendo DS Lite (1,2)

placebofud

Zarian

Even that Pac-man was okay.

emuc64

I would literally kill anyone here for that feature. Anyone want to take one for the team?

LedRush

Nintendo aren't a company to let a cash-return-on-gaming-investment opportunity fly on by.

I saw a mockup of a redesigned DS that simply curved all edges, making it look similar to a glasses case (or mobile phone). I think that is the best we'll get from a DS re-design.

I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to launch an entirely new handheld inside the next year though...

RogueSquid

Superstar90

I agree, anything else other then a memory increase might mean incombatibility issues.

Maybe a major software update? Being able to buy apps/games from the wii store and put them on your DS your be nice.

Being able to access/send data back to your wii at home would be cool.

Blackspirit

bass.exe21

Wouldn't that be a sign that we won't be getting a redesign soon? Why would they slow down development for a platform that has a new iteration coming 'round the bend?

Protector one

Making it smaller and removing the GBA socket would seem like a possibility.

Sadly I think it's too early for a 'real' DS2 (still two years away?) with improved processors, more memory, motion sensors, and the aforementioned flash RAM. DS is still selling like hot cakes, even if PSP cakes are presently a bit hotter - and DS software still dominates.

quen

Tei

RPGr

I don't see any good reason why not to release a redesign. Personally I'm fine with the Lite, but the new one should prove interesting.

Gotta wonder what the next Nintendo handheld will be like? We really couldn't predict what the DS would do...

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

paulmcg

Sony and Microsoft are actually far more guilty of doing this. It's actually even worse doing it with a console due to the higher price point. Least if a new handheld revision comes out by trading in your old one you can upgrade for a reasonable amount.

Odin

Any DS revision in the next 12 months will just be a Lite Lite sort of thing, certainly not a new generation of Nintendo handhelds with any extra power. The DS has at least 2 years left in it. It still outsells everything apart from the Wii just recently each week from what I can tell, in hardware and probably software as well. It would be truly insane for them to drop support for the current DS and make a DS2.

vantesaur

DrXym

Zhen-Chan

This list makes my head hurt. I mean seriously did these people bother to do any research at all?

"1. DS has reached saturation point in Japan."

If that was true, why does the DS still sell at least 35-40k systems every week? Re-releasing the DS is not going to make sales spike that much without some massive improvements and removing the GBA slot isn't it. Software idiots, is what moves systems in the end.

2. DS is getting on a bit.

So was the GameBoy and GBA and they both had a life span to rival the PS2. In fact, the older a handheld gets, the better the games often become as everyone has had enough time to figure out what you can and can't do. I look at "The World Ends With You." as a prime showing of what devs can do with the DS now.

5. A spec increase wouldn't hurt.

Yes it would. That's all you need is to split your huge ass user base down the middle by telling people. "No, this DS game won't work in your DS-fat or DS-Lite, only your DS-mark 2." Nintendo isn't that stupid. Remember how gamers and developers rail on Microsoft for having a 360 with no hard drive? This would be worse.

6. Nintendo love to combat piracy.

You do that before your system launches. At this point it would be a waste of money, time and effort and anyone who really wanted to steal games would simply go get a older model DS..there's simply too many DS's out there now for that to work.

7. Downloadable GBA games.

Flash cart and the DS can already do that. However to allow it means opening the door to pirates who will cheerfully use the offical Nintendo cart to help them steal.

3. DS game development has gone very quiet at Nintendo.

Game Development -period- is quiet, it always happens this time of year.

4. Every Nintendo handheld has had three versions.

Truth. Now a new DS, I can believe, but not for at least two more years, the DS itself still sells like mad, all a new DS would do is hurt them.

Foxstar Sixtail

6) Nintendo loves to combat piracy
The existing DS' GBA cartridge slot has been exploited by hackers who use flash memory cards through the slot to run pirated games - an easy way to get around the small DS card slot. A new model DS (rumoured to feature internal storage in place of the slot) would get around this problem - very attractive for Nintendo, who have always had a big thing against piracy. Remember the tiny Gamecube disks?

Not that slot 1 only flashcards haven't been around for a good long while already so that makes this point null and void.

Honestly if you actually read the article it sounds like they've just gotten their points confused. Most of their argument seems to support a new handheld altogether coming out rather than a new hardware revision. This seems a lot more sensible but I figure the DS has at least another 1-2 years in it yet.

Odin

The Game Boy Colour only ever had one hardware spec so this goes against that argument. Arguments 5-7 are just incredibly unlikely, increasing the specs would just annoy people as they'd be forced to buy the new one just to make use of anything that made use of the increased power. Short of switching away from a cartridge medium there's not much they could do with a redesign to combat piracy. Downloadable GBA games is just a silly idea as it'd require a significant change to the hardware so you'd actually have somewhere to save them.

But honestly the real reason that there's going to be no DS redesign any time soon is that there's just no point. There's really nothing that they could improve on, all the improvements to the hardware were made with the Lite so there's little point doing much more with it. IF Nintendo do push out another redesign it's going to be later rather than sooner.

Odin

King of Kings

eastx

BUT! They could add functionality outside of games, as an incentive to upgrade. Like getting back to the main menu without having to turn the DS off, or some sort of online Pictochat, or some internal memory to store pictures/videos/music, etc.

That way, just like the transition from DS to DS Lite, a stupid number of people who already own two DSs (myself included), would buy a third.

regnez

eastx

With iPods even when they introduce a new model you can still play newly released songs on your old iPod, but with a new DS it's probable that new games won't work on old hardware. It will be interesting to see what Nintendo has come up with.

photoboy

Duoae

lilkao

I'm glad my 1st gen release date DS is still working but I think the touch screen is going on it.

LuppyLuptonium

RenRenRen

Even so, it's technically incorrect. But, many people don't remember the Japan-only Game Boy Light (similar in design to Game Boy pocket, but the screen was backlit). :)

BPMζ

kiigan

Channing

Er.. what versions were there of the Gameboy Color?

Deusfaux

BPMζ

Zho

I'm sure the processors to do PSP-level graphics must be much cheaper now, as well as more compact.

But what would they do for media format? Obviously, for a more powerful system, you'd need more storage.
They can't go for a disc-based system, as that would make the system much larger, drain a lot of power, and would make backwards compatability difficult.
Perhaps continuing usage of flash memory would be the only option. While it still isn't as cheap as disc-based media (About $6 per GB for flash, less than a dollar per GB for discs), it does continue to become cheaper and cheaper.

BPMζ

erlik

Also:

Reason #9: Wii connectivity.

That's a lot of colons: three of them.

Johnny_Under

Jirachii

But what I REALLY want out of E3 is F-Zero Wii/DS... and Jet Impulse (DS) western release date. Anyone else thinks that Nintendo should put Jet Impulse on the Wii?

Shiryu

Its at times like these I want an edit button instead of writing a new post. Make it happen Kotaku!

deathsyth8888

The only things they would improve would be the same things they improved with the Lite. Somehow smaller, maybe brighter, shinier, whatever.

Improving the hardware won't happen until there's a new handheld altogether, the DS2 or whatever you want to call it. Why the hell would Nintendo segment the still booming DS market? Nobody would make games for the improved spec when there's tens of millions with the current model. So Nintendo doing that would really just be throwing money out the window.

Besides, it goes against their whole philosophy as a company.

At any rate, Games Radar just threw that one in there and said, "wouldn't it be awesome to have the power of a GameCube in a portable?!!?" Maybe they thought 6 reasons weren't enough?

Huckleberry

xbulletholes

deathsyth8888

CreamSodaSlurpee

You Know Ill Just Give It To You If You Ask.

On A Side Note, I Wish My Cat Could Do That.

hk458

QBasic

Itami