sweenyJ

It occurs to me that Americans and Brits (perhaps less so) are willing to pay for crap, just as long as it's cheap and available (probably explains why the US and UK car industries are in the toilet), whereas Europe and Asia are appearing to take a more considered view and go for Brand and Build Quality.

This said, I actually think that MS's gamble has kinda paid off - to a point. Sure, the hardware was absolute shite - but there was nothing else around, which meant a healthy install base and some very good games.

Not sure the future is so rosy though. The PS3 is now outselling the 360 worldwide (so much for non-US territories not mattering) and more importantly, has room to grow.

I'm sure that Blu-Ray will have helped sales of the PS3, but that's as much down to MS not backing HD-DVD by integrating it in the 360 as anything else.

The result is a much broader appeal for the PS3 right now - maybe not for Wii-loving toddlers and coffin dodgers, but certainly for the 25-35 demographic, i.e. those with the most money to burn.

The suggestion that an uplift in hardware sales (for whatever reason) will not boost software sales is frankly ludicrous. As a previous poster points out, the PS3 attach rate is virtually identical to the 360's when you factor in the 16 month head start (and better for GTA4).

MGS4, LBP, Home, Haze, WipeOut HD, Resistance 2, Motorstorm 2, Killzone 2 and GT5 will help matters, with any release delays only serving to prolong the appeal of the PS3 into next year.

This may well be a cycle that MS can ride out and come good again - I just can't see it though.

stussygalore

Good games don't count for anything if the console you're playing them on is unreliable at best, and that's a shame really, the original Xbox was built to last *and* had a killer library.

Murmaider

And yet some Europeans wonder why so many Americans think Europeans are so pretentious. Your air of superiority smells a little funky.

robinandtami

JakeDunn

TheIrishNinja

cheeses

TheApprentice

Attach rate... currently have 15 games and 1 Blu ray casino royale free thanks Sony.

I would buy an xbox but the only game I want for it is Dead Rising... Can anyone recommend any decent titles?

Pauly454

neoraul20

neoraul20

neoraul20

who cares

UFO

@UFO: Everyone knows that America holds a monopoly on ignorance, next topic please.
/sarcasm
My point is to look at the USA on the map. It has two neighboring countries, Mexico and Canada. Keep that in mind when Uneducated Joe Blow that has never left his home state let alone the USA. How many countries has the average European been to? Just because one culture lacks common knowledge of one thing doesn't make that culture has more ignorance than an other culture.

I'm pretty sure that the general public of Canadians, Australians and Mexicans are just as ignorant with geography...

iamspoo

I wouldn't say "astonishing" when they had a full year lead. It was a given. Though the fact that they clearly lost that edge with overall sales isn't that great. To a more expensive console no less.

Is it too early? There was that full year lead. Can they recoup? Of course, but they'll have to do more than a price drop clearly.

SG79

What's 360 features would those be? Don't mention "great online" because that's not a missing feature, it's just that MS has it better.

SG79

robinandtami

ca$h

subterfunk

astrixzero

I don't care how good the games are, if the hardware's crap, the hardware's crap. Something about the 360 just reeks of Dreamcast failure. Maybe it's the diehard fanbase that would follow Gates, Ballmer, and Allard into the bowels of Hell itself; but if you asked them why, you'd just get a blank stare. Or maybe it's the snarky "So what if we have to send in our console for a replacement every two months, AT LEAST WE GOT TEH HALOEZ LOL PWNED N00BSTATION / PAYING FOR OUR ONLINE SERVICE MAKES IT BETTER ...somehow" banter that comes from the 36-going-on-15 that is the Xbox Live demographic. Or maybe it's the decade old tech that's crammed inside the dual-concave shaped chassis.

Oh, and here's an obligatory LOL RRoD for all you fanboys. Start your foot-stomping now because the three red rings, whether you choose to believe in them or not, still exist and in a very, very big way.

Viva Playstation 3, sallies.
Viva video game consoles that don't break down more than an emo kid at a staged production of "Catcher in the Rye."

Murmaider

I'll rephrase your comments:

"Go PS3! I wonder when we'll see some solid figures in North America about how much long it will take for PS3 to over take 360."

I wonder when we'll see some solid figures in North America about how long or ever will PS3 take over 360.

mcool93

Rockwallaby

"we`re divided by a common language and a huge great fucking ocean, thank christ ! "...al murray

UFO

interstate78

It took the PS3 1.5 years to catch up to a 1 year lead and this is when the gap in sales rate are finally closing so it's clear that in all of Europe, the PS3 is leading. What's also clear is that the 360 is dominating the UK, Europe's strongest game market. Europe being known as a traditional Playstation territory, it's nothing short of astonishing that 360 is doing well when it could have ended up like Japan. This performance has actually helped the European consumer with more cost-effective console as Sony cannot rest on the power of their brand.

There's still a lot of consoles to be sold in Europe and 360 has the in-road on price and may be closer to another price cut even than the PS3. If MS can offer a storage solution and a more reliable console (this is just a matter of proof) then maybe they can minimize or even overtake Sony lead. It's much too early to say it's doing horrible.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

On the other hand, I absolutely love my Xbox 360!
Havent had this much fun with a console since I was 10 years old and had a NES w/ Megaman 2 & SMB3.

KEELr

I'll listen when someone actually has a constructive statement to make but the losers came out in force for this one.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

jacksons98

KEELr

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

coktoe

+ Watch video

UFO

Ehardergardens

I own a PS3, and I only know 2 other people with PS3's. None of us actually game on them. I'm completely certain there is a percentage of people out there who do buy PS3's for the sole reason that it is/was the only/cheapest BD 2.0 compliant player out there. We'll probably never know exactly what that percentage is but I'd guesstimate at least 10%.

robinandtami

+ Watch video

Xiedo

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

Xiedo

Brilliant. Now go to any given HD forum and you'll hear bickering that BD isn't taking off as fast as it should, because PS3 owners don't buy movies.

Both sides like justifying sales figures , high or low, with an alternate factor.

SG79

freakout

And if you for some reason think that's a reason, we're monarchies as well (and also just for show).

The Whaleman

If it's recent times, then we're talking the DS (fastest selling console in the history of gaming, about 65million in shy of 3 years) since that has destroyed sales figures of any console in this current generation with the only exception being the past few months in japan due to a single game pushing PSP hardware sales through the roof.

Seriously, the fanboyism needs to stop.

Buy whichever console either a) has the games you want or b) your friends also have.
If you can afford all of the consoles then great, buy them all and play all the games you can. You'll be better for it ;P

alphaxion

Eon.

Cupajo

Murmaider

MattB

nikolaj

See it as a positive thing instead. You, the consumers are the winners when the companies have to fight with each other.
I mean the zealousness displayed here is pretty pathetic honestly. I can understand if a Porsche-fan bickers with a Skyline-fan on which is the best car around Nürburgring. I mean most can only afford one of the cars, so we have to choose wisely. But a console? Hell, a PS3 costs as much as 10 fill-ups on my car. A 360 or Wii half of that. It's chump change! It's not even worth bickering about.
If you decide to not buy a PS3, you're missing out on great exclusives. Same goes for the 360 and the Wii.
If you don't like the Wii, I can understand that. It's a bit different than the other two. But I see no good reason to argue about the games on the PS3 and 360. Is there really a big difference between the FPS games on the two? geez...

zlimness

Alex

XBOX360 is not HD? then what is mine playing at? my eyes are running it on 1080p? nice!

diablofreak

Luckily more and more "foreign" companies seem to realize Europe is a huge market with lots of money.

Hell, the PS3 is more expensive in Europe than anywhere else, and we still buy it, that must mean we're rich right?

Also I'm from Holland, been in Canada for a few months... and hell yeah, we Dutch people have a much higher standard of living, we have it too good.

zyberteq

Sqwerell

It seems to me that Europe has similar tastes in gaming as the US and MS has bent over backwards to get games/systems/movies as fast as possible to as many Euro gamers as possible. Sony took their sweet ass time and charged Euro gamers more. Is the Euro world view of American companies the deciding factor? If this is the case it is very hypocritical of Euro gamers. The only deciding factor game for Euro gamers on the PS3 that I can see is Gran Turismo 5 Prologue...

iamspoo

MattB

Media type does not determine whether or not something is HD, the resolution does. The 360 DOES play games in HD, some native, some upscaled, just like the PS3.

rotcepsurt

The only European region that the PS3 has not conquered is Scandinavia ( those Vikings are stubborn folk ) by 100K units and the only other country is the United Kingdom ( who still have a Queen as their head of state, even if it is purely for show ) by 1 million units.

CartBlanche

steve86uk

We've officially lost count of how many times Microsoft has denied rumors of an upcoming Xbox 360 equipped with Blu-ray ... we only have so many fingers and toes.

And so comes another denial hot on the heels of the recent Blu-ray rumor, where Microsoft told GamePro that they "have no plans to introduce a Blu-ray drive for Xbox 360". There you have it, said as black and white as humanly possible. But don't worry fanboys, we'll still report on every Blu-ray / Xbox 360 rumor we come across, not only because we feel obligated to keep you informed, but because we also enjoy annoying the pants off Microsoft. Yes, we're evil ...

Taken from xbox360fanboy just now

halfbakednz

Come on. It's EUROPE.

=(

Flik Nightshade

rotcepsurt

It's because all the big players have huge flaws: thousands of 360s are breaking for no reason across the world, multiplatform games suck on the PS3(even though it costs more money) and the wii's best titles involve mario in some shape or form in the same party/sports/paltforming scenarios we've seen for years.

Really, there just isn't stuff that capture's gamers' imaginations anymore, and the stuff that does is few and far between.

fenderfuel08

becrensh

DarkCode

@TearsandScreams: yea I agree, I mirror your sentiement. Hell I still use my old xbox, course not for games, but Xbox Media Center freaking rules.

and yea still supporting the ps2 is a hindrance now. Hell I saw they actually came out with first party wireless controllers for the damned thing! woulda loved to have those 5 years ago instead of a (then) 80 dollar logitech controller.

Derigor

Unfortunately for MS, they could have defeated the PS3 and been the winner already if it wasn't for the horrendous quality of their hardware.

I'm just waiting for both the 360 and PS3 versions of games to have consistent quailty... I would be so mad if Star Wars: the force unleashed was gimped on the PS3!

fenderfuel08

Different demographics and cultures that will likely viciously savage each other in the comments section following this news.

Trai_Dep

FP_slomo788

edhe (xbl)

Something tells me that the US market will remain an Xbox market for a while.

There are lots of advantages by being first to market.

One is an already robust online user base.

SpaceDizzy

Yea but wants left for Micorsoft???

Evenually 3rd party will support only Sony & Nintendo. Microsoft "BIG" mistake is releasing the 360 so damn early. DVD is NOT and I repeat NOT HD.
Neither is the Wii but they are on a different Category, I see the wii hold out for a while. PS3 has a 10 year plan that I can beleive Sony in because they 've proved it with their previous consoles.

Ryosukekun21

Both consoles - the 360 and PS3 - have advantages and disadvantages, and its good to see some healthy competition as the people who will benefit from this are us gamers.

illocon

TearsandScreams

Well in europe PS3 is outselling 360 in hardware and in software. America may have beaten PS3 by like 30,000 units in GTA4 in America but Ps3 Outsold 360 in Europe. PS3 is now selling more Hardware and software in Europe than 360.

Theres also a article I read a while back that PS3 owners have more of attach to their console than 360 so I can't pretty much bet it's being used as a gaming console.

Ryosukekun21

I_Hate_This_Place

Derigor

steliosco

Bah I didnt read your back and forth all the way, my fault.

anyways my opinion still stands that the life of the system can be held out through a 10 year life cycle as long as there is support for it. They really do need to drop the damned price down again soon though since I agree with you, it should be cheap as hell to make by now. Hell both systems. For whats in a 360 you could probably buy for around 75 bucks /shrug course thats only if you could find a place that still sells those dinosaur components (their pc equiv anyways).

I just fear what MS did with the original xbox will become common place. Dropping all support for it and forcing a new model out early. I'd just hate to see that cycle repeated and turned into a race to see who can get theirs out first and have it turn into a basic ATI/nvidia war every 6 months with one console being 2% more powerful than the last and having the PR team spin it to make it seem it is godzilla and the old is minilla.

Derigor

megaStryke

zoesch

Lachoy

I_Hate_This_Place

stupidfanboy

You know, because that's what comment I was reading when I typed that.

Derigor

It's already outdated as far as tech is concerned, save for the blu-ray.

You're referring to the fact the ps2 still has games coming out for it.

ManjiKengo

FP_slomo788

Another thing - it doesn't really matter how much more Sony have sold, does it? I mean for chrissakes, MS had a sixteen-month lead.

el bryanto

Nintendo knew what they were doing when they ducktaped them two gamecubes together.

zoesch

I agree fuck 10 year life cycles, Lets get a new console every 6 months when ATI/nVidia dump out new video cards so I can keep buying new shit like I do with my PC! That's totally more probable and possible!

Derigor

ManjiKengo

No, attach rates are where money is made.

KaneRobot

Abriael

If I buy one game (Cod4) for my ps3 and play it 3 hours a day, every day I am still using my console to play 3 hours a day, every day.

If I buy 3 games for my PS3, and play each one of them for an hour every day I'm still playing 3 hours a day, every day.

I know there are alot of people out there who buy a console for only one damned game and play only one damned game. So why are Attach rates a good indicator if people are using their system to play games or watch movies? Yea... they arnt.

Derigor

It's a wonder why I haven't quit coming here all together but flame bait draws me in like a moth to a flame also. I should make it my quest in life to fight fanboys.

----------------------------

@Stormrider:

Yup. it sure is "wonderful".

ManjiKengo

Fortunately, I can balance my nerdy needs and social needs just fine. Name-calling is the lowest common denominator.

sascha23

It's just fun to see where it goes and if the better hardware wins. ;)

sascha23

Oh, the collective attention span of the internet is a wonderful thing.

And by wonderful, I actually mean terrible.

Stormrider

OldManGaming

sascha23

And when Microsoft does, fanboys will be calling them huge douchebag faggots who suck at making consoles and suck for not making something that lasted 10 years like the ps3 was planned for.

ManjiKengo

However, the attach rates were posted to VG Charts for Europe last week and the US sales numbers went up today for GTA4.

Check out the numbers and you'll have your confirmation that the attach rate was far better for PS3. 2.3 million sold for 360 and 1.4 million for PS3. Do the math and you'll note that extra million doesn't work when there are 6 million more units. :)

sascha23

On a more serious note, maybe now Europe will stop getting shafted or more particularly, the UK, I don't see why a game has to take months for localisation for all of Europe whn they could release the same version they released in America for the UK market too.

oh and I'm not one of the people buying a PS3....yet. I'll have my 360 next week.

MasterDex

NOW your argument is a bit more plausible.

But like I said earlier. I don't give a fuck about this bullshit anymore. It's pointless to wave dicks around.

I'm not getting bjs from sony, ms or nintendo and none of you fanboys are either.

Stop acting like Sony/MS/nintendo raped your dad and killed your dog.
--------------------------------

ManjiKengo

Jeez, pretty soon we'll probably have these companies announcing their plans for the next hardware generation. How weird is that?

Stormrider

Guess what kids? - they both play video games, often times the same ones! God forbid someone likes something different than you! It's absolutely vital that they not only know they fucked up, but why you had it right all along because, you know, you're just such a smarter person. News flash: No normal person gives a fuck which console you think is better or why. Please, if only for basic civility, let it go.

ca$h

The tech within the xbox360 is old as fuck. Hell, the tech within the psthree is old as fuck. I still don't know why it's costing so much to manufacture.

ManjiKengo

Stormrider

The most recent 360 price drop, that wasn't mirrored by Sony and that, according to microsoft executives, would have wiped the competition from the gtable failed, quite miserably. Not that it wasn't expectable, since the problem of the 360 in europe has NEVER been price, but the lack of brand penetration, which can't by solved by simply dropping the price.

Also, wheter you accept or not this argument, the one about attach rate, is steel armored, you can argue it as much as you like, but the fact stands. Ps3 users, in average, use their console to play just as much as 360 users. The percentage of people using it only as a blu-ray player is marginal at best.

Total attach rate is meaningless, attach rate versus time has meaning, and is almost the same.

Abriael

That's definitely one of the areas MS f'ed up on worldwide. Not that big of a problem in U.S. so they thought they could let it slide. Oops.

lionkitten

Papa Midnight

gnudna

@risingphoenix: In the US? As far as I remember, the PS3 has outsold the 360 in North America two months total (January and February of this year), and not by hugely significant margins either.

Stormrider

I Spit On Your Comments

Yes but the problem is they claim to have outsold it? That means that it sold more than the current xbox 360 owners. Simple math really.

PS: these articles always stir up cr@P.

gnudna

sascha23

ManjiKengo

I_Hate_This_Place

Your entire argument became moot when you failed to acknowledge the ps3 has seen drops also.

ManjiKengo

If the Nintendo DS can have WiFi the console I buy damn sure better have connectivity out of the box.

Fallible

kingclip

I find it funny to see the usual microsoft fanboys trying to minimize what was something to be expected.

And by the way, i hate to have to repeat this everytime, but the argument about games attach rate is meaningless in the way microsoft fanboys always put it. The 360 has an attach rate of 7, while the PS3 has an attach rate of 3.4
This means that the average 360 owner has 2.05 times the games the average PS3 user. But this is since the consoles launch. Wich isn't a proper term of comparison:
The 360 has been launched 28 months ago, while the PS3 has been launched 16 months ago in the US and in Japan, and only 13 months ago in europe, which is it's strongest market (let's simply make an average, 14.5 months).

let's divide the attach rate of the 360 by 28 and we get that the average 360 user buys 0.25 games a month (or one game every 4 months), in comparison the average PS3 user buys 0.235 games a month (or one game every 4,2 months), making for an absolutely minimal difference. Definately Much smaller than what the Microsoft PRs and fanboys try to showoff as an enormous difference in terms of attach rate.
Suck it up boys, people use PS3s to play just as much as the 360. I know it's so hard to accept for some of the most hardcore Microsoft fanboys, but that's how things are, like it or not.

Abriael

Basically it's the same thing. It doesn't really mean anything except for what you use it for.

Better sex isn't ALWAYS attributed to a bigger penis.

I seriously hope you guys get my meaning.

ManjiKengo

[Dextr]

Garo

kingclip

We just cared about great games. If you are in the gaming industry, I can see you caring, but as a consumer of video games, why do we care so much?

TheAngryHeretic

FP_slomo788

FP_slomo788

If anyone here takes online gaming seriously, they wouldn't be doing it through a wireless connection. I don't care how good the wifi connection claims to be, I am pretty sure I don't want to worry about anyone turning on a microwave oven while I am playing a competitive match.

Leobebes

Biggest thing I hate about the 360, ps3 and wii is its fanbase.

ManjiKengo

@JorgieX: I thought the real issue is how many systems have been returned defective world wide vs how many have been sold world wide. Add in your own capital letters for clarity. I dont think the issue is how many games were sold world wide on which platform has anything to do with hardware sales because well, we are discussing hardware sales and not games sales. I really dont understand the "it has more good games arguement". I know it's a matter of personal opinion on what a good game is but uh... I honestly cant think of anything the 360 has in terms of quality games that cant be found else where (other than Halo /shrug). Gears, and Mass Effect, both on PC. I guess Dead Rising (fuck. Otis.) and um Forza? Everything else that is worth a damned is multiplatform (CoD4, GTA4, Rainbow 6 Vegas). So in this day and age I dont see the "lol sony has leik no gamez" arguement as valid. I own both machines and yea, I originally had Cod4 on the 360 to play with my buds who didnth ave ps3's yet. Course then my 360 wants to start malfunctioning again so I switched to playing on the ps3. Havnt missed my 360 since. Of course, I bought my ps3 originally just for a blu ray player, Metal Gear, and Gran Turismo (so I guess I'm biased?). I just dont understand the appeal of a faulty piece of hardware which to me doesnt have any more value over another more reliable unit. I realy dont understand how people keep buying multiple 360s after theirs fails (out of warranty) and not switch to something else. I have a friend who was on his 7th 360 until he said "fuck it" and sold it for a Nintendo DS. I woulda said "fuck it" at the first death. Question.
Is the install base really what MS claims it is based on units sold? How many of those are people who purchased a replacement 360 because their other was no longer operations (such as one of my friends did). I guess in the end Ms dont care as long as people are buying them and they get to report huge sales numbers. I just wanna know how many of those units sold actually still power on.

Derigor

Were you on the debate team by any chance? Usually when you want to make a point, and you know - rub their face in it, you have to find your own figures and statistics instead of throwing mean names around at people.

Fallible

[Dextr]

I do wonder how many people were like me and bought it mostly as a BR player. Could explain the low attach rates.

tellute

marlblank

yep, that's why the economy in Europe is stronger than ever with the Euro kicking the American dollar's a$$, while the US is in a deep recession right now.

valkyriex

AplusBminus

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT XBOX 360 SUCKS!!!!

TRIPLE IS OUTSELLING IT WORLD WIDE, HAS BETTER CONSOLE QA, DESPITE HAVING INFERIOR GAMES.

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT, PS3 SUCKS!!!!!

XBOX 360 HAS SLIGHTLY BETTER GAMES AND INFERIOR HARDWARE. LOLOL RROD.

There. I said it. Now there is no need for the rest of the commenter's to point out this shit.
-------------------------------------
Mike, I'm getting sick of the flamebait you guys post here.

You're my ATL brotha. You know better than that.

ManjiKengo

FP_slomo788

However, forgive me if I express some doubt about any numbers that come from Sony. I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue.

wheezo

You state this as fact, yet up until this point nothing everything that has been released on the 360 has contradicted your statement. Let me guess you believe in the tooth fairy still right?

Leobebes

KillerBee

You'll grow out of it. Perhaps you and LittleBigPlaneteer can go halfsies on a drum of Prozac?

Dr. Steve Brule

mind in rewind

Spartan1308™

Just because gaming systems have been ranked by how well they sell does not mean that's how it works in other things. In sports, your stats matter the most, for movies it's usually how many awards you get, and so forth.

Don't act like it was gamers that started this pissing contest either. Statistically speaking the console that sells more than the others, usually is the one that is dominant for that generation. Obviously a lot of people give a shit about whether their beloved console is on top or not, so clearly they'll be looking at the best indicator of that, and that's sales figures.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I'm sick of sony and microsofts shit.

I'm sick of nintendo too."Oh we helped make an entire generation a bunch of fat fucks. Lets say we're sorry and make wiifit. Then charge them up the ass for it too."

ManjiKengo

I Spit On Your Comments

Rabidsquirrel

kingclip

The blu-ray is a bonus that will drive the PS3 to being the dominant system (between the two), but the games are the main reasons 90% of consumers purchase a PS3.

This is coming from someone who owns both. Just going by attach rate on GTA4 to rebuttle. :)

sascha23

risingphoenix

But seriously, I th