The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market - Kotaku Comments

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Clstirens — Mon, 05 May 2008 11:49:07 MDT

@Netnavi: No.. Just. No

Clstirens

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Lawya — Mon, 05 May 2008 08:12:05 MDT

@FullTimeGamer: You're very correct about Galaxy's camera being "worry free," but I don't see a problem with Number41's desire for choice. I hate to babysit a camera, but even in games where the auto-control is outstanding, I'll encounter at least a couple of situations where I wish I could take control. And yes, that includes Galaxy.

Lawya

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

FullTimeGamer — Mon, 05 May 2008 06:45:33 MDT

@Number41:

That's a dumb reason to not purchase this game. The camera works great and you won't even notice it because you're having so much fun. I thought it was nice not having to worry about a camera in a 3D game for once even though I am very accustomed to it having played so many games in which it is necessary. In some games your argument holds true because the developers did a clumsy job on the fixed camera but not this one. Give it shot!

FullTimeGamer

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Number41 — Sun, 04 May 2008 23:35:11 MDT

This article mentions the exact reason why I have yet to purchase Mario Galaxy for my Wii: no camera control. I'm the kind of gamer who uses camera control constantly — oftentimes, I even find myself controlling my character by simply holding "up" on the movement stick and rotating the camera to adjust direction. Fixed camera angles irritate me to no end, to the point that they can make me quit playing a game (I only played through the first level of Devil May Cry and haven't touched that series since for this very reason).

That said, the article is absolutely correct that camera control is something that we can't expect the mass market to be able to wrap its head around. I can see future games following Mario Galaxy's example of finely tuned static camera positioning, in hopes of making the game more accessible to more people. And that makes me very sad indeed.

I can only hope that games that take this approach will provide it as an option. Static camera or free camera? Give us the choice, please.

Number41

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Big World — Sun, 04 May 2008 22:06:28 MDT

@man_in_gauze: They should take a page from those "Ernest Goes To..." movies and find somewhere really obscure to stick Mario.

Super Mario Harlem has a nice ring to it...

Big World

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Kiriphii — Sun, 04 May 2008 21:21:21 MDT

@JimElNino:

Yeah, definitely up there with SM64.

I get wjhat you mean about it not having to be easy - but if you think about it, what you have to do to get the 121st star is pretty tough in its own right!

I'm still playing through it every now and then in order to get that last star.

Kiriphii

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Netnavi — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:26:45 MDT

@globones: true.

I have to agree that playing Galaxy was like playing Mario 64. Much better than Sunshine.

It was cool having that wonderment in the game. It was really the art design. I could have played with a regular controller ( though the Wiimote-nunchuck combo was good) and still had a great time. Easily as good as Mario 64, though I don't think better. It was just more of the same concept but newer levels. I think that's what we all want in a Mario game. Just fun new levels and excellent platforming.

Netnavi

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Netnavi — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:22:12 MDT

All they have to do is go back and redo the classics in 3D. Just make a new game set in the Super Mario World Universe and make it a linear experiance. Make it have a branching mechanic like on SNES and bring back Yoshi. Any Co-op should be handled like Mario 2. Bring back Toad and the Princess as playable characters (No more saving the princess for a little while please) and make Luigi a little more manly. He can be goofy but lets not make him scared of evrything. He did save Mario's life when he was lost, remeber.

And have this game on a newer console with future current gen graphics please (PS4/xbox720). Non of this a generation behind mess.

oh and the option of having different control schemes.

Netnavi

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

globones — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:15:56 MDT

Mario 64 is not a gold standard for 3d platforms, but it basically created the 3d platformer. There are very few moments in my gaming life that I really remember. Holding the 64 controller and playing mario 64 is a memory I will always have.

globones

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

JimElNino — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:08:03 MDT

@Kiriphii: I put SMG right up there with SM64.

Although I somewhat disagree with the absence of grinding for stars, the Bouldergeist Daredevil comet star was pretty brutal. I don't really consider that grinding though as getting all the stars shouldn't be easy, and it wasn't.

JimElNino

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Kiriphii — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:27:46 MDT

I think Super Mario 64 is being looked at with a rather hefty pair of rose-tinted glasses. Sure it might have been the first transition from 2D to 3D for Mario, but as far as I'm concerned, Super Mario Galaxy was just as, if not *more* fun than when I played SM64.

It was a lot more fluid, a lot more fun and I didn't feel like I had to grind away at the game to get some of the more unforgiving stars.

Kiriphii

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Velops — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:23:43 MDT

The ideas on where Mario will go next in the previous comments are too bogged down in linear thinking. The difference between a good designer and a great designer is the ability to think laterally. You have to be able to create surpise in your audience or risk becoming mediocre.

I suspect that Miyamoto will explore the possibilities of expanding co-star mode into a deeper mechanic.

Velops

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Thorax — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:44:26 MDT

I really think that Super Mario Galaxy was the Wii's Magnum Opus, meaning we probably aren't going to see a better game for the system.

Thorax

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:40:17 MDT

@paulmcg:

Well, we had 2D Mario, and we have 3D Mario, so...

4D? 1D? Spherical Mario, anyone? How would that even work?

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Plan303e — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:38:17 MDT

Super Mario Quantum.

Yes, it'll teach children that the first 12 grades of sciences were all lies. And Mario can look like Einstein and **** with our minds.

Plan303e

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Gospel X — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:36:59 MDT

@Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.: I like this, but with a twist. Bring back the writer from Kingdom Hearts to write an epic spanning through several of Nintendo's franchises as well as Sega's - bring in Capcom and/or Konami if you're going full balls out and the licenses aren't too insane. The game would be considered a larger scale adventure than Galaxy because Mario is literally jumping from one game UNIVERSE to another.

I know the game is implausible, but that's the only way I can think of in order to trump Galaxy.

Gospel X

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name. — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:57:26 MDT

Or a full-blown dedicated Sonic crossover at long last.

If only Sonic's transition to 3D had been as good as Mario's. ;_;

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Krumm — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:38:01 MDT

I wold say, "Mario Heavens". the only thing left is for him to die and kick Bowser's ass in the afterlife (at least i don´t remember that being made).

Krumm

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

paulmcg — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:36:51 MDT

@man_in_gauze: Alternate dimensions? Part of the back story could be lifted form Paper Mario.

paulmcg

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

_Hayko — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:30:15 MDT

@Gospel X: So there have...

well, they can sill do one in the style of Journeyman or Quantum Leap though, it would be different.

_Hayko

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Rocci1212 — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:23:18 MDT

@man_in_gauze: They do tend to be pretty good games with a couple of exceptions (Mario Basketball I'm looking at you). Strikers was hands down the best online multiplayer game that the Wii had until Kart showed up. And I'd give my left nut to see Mario Tennis 64 or Super Mario Kart show up on the Virtual Console.

Rocci1212

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Gospel X — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:20:02 MDT

@_Hayko: Again? There have been at least two Mario time-traveling games already.

Gospel X

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

_Hayko — Sun, 04 May 2008 17:05:11 MDT

@man_in_gauze: Time Travel!

_Hayko

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually — Sun, 04 May 2008 15:41:25 MDT

@Rocci1212:

...I would totally buy Mario Cricket. Like, in a heartbeat. Despite my complete lack of anything even remotely Nintendo-related in my house, with the exception of an SNES AC adapter. (?)

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

ban_hammer — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:59:27 MDT

@Shocky:

ban_hammer

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

SpearXXI — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:57:16 MDT

Maybe a Mario survival horror or a Mario FPS? I kid.

Hmm, it will be interesting where they take Mario in the next installment, because I think they peaked with his storyline.

SpearXXI

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Jinto — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:55:02 MDT

It'll be interesting to see what Nintendo can do next generation with Mario. They've got one hella of a challenge.

Jinto

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Dragonzigg — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:54:55 MDT

I have to say that I played SMG without having played a great deal of Super Mario 64, and I felt a sense of joy easily equal to the way people talk about 64, so I wonder if it's a case of rose-tinted spectacles.

Dragonzigg

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Green-clad Gamer Dude — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:52:04 MDT

The same case with how people felt Twilight Princess did not live up to Ocarina of Time.

Green-clad Gamer Dude

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Rocci1212 — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:51:36 MDT

@man_in_gauze: Play soccer, golf, tennis, basketball, and race go-karts. Duh.

Rocci1212

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Shocky — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:49:30 MDT

@man_in_gauze: Nowhere.

Shocky

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

Evil Tortie's Mom — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:45:55 MDT

Good stuff as usual, Maggie.

Evil Tortie's Mom

The Difficulties of Designing For a Diverse Market

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:41:45 MDT

Well, of course, that's the question that most people were asking when SMG was announced; after Mario goes inter-galactic, what the hell else is left for him to do?

man in gauze is king ramses II, actually