dipsetboy17

I do lightly facepalm at the potential for fanboys to search "Sony PR Disaster" through tags alone though. Probably not intentional, of course.

Frank

ZafinaDaedalion

DarkLuigi

As for that comment about reading comprehension on the weekend, just wow....

ReginaldTheSeventySecond

That's a special kind of suck.

modren44

My own opinion is that I'll have both eventually, but the XBOX 360 has Live, and a ton of games. PS3 has yet to have a game that was like, 'Wow! Get this system, for this exclusive!'. They have a better rate of games coming out for the PS2 and the quality seems to be great for their OLD system.

My XBoX is working fine. There are problems out there, but I for one am happy to send my money to a company based in the US that's making technology. Not out of a sense of jingoism or false patriotism, it's just nice to know that we can get our shit together when we need to on the manufacturing front. (Yeah, yeah, the units aren't built in America...blahsdie blah)

As an adult, I don't have to play fanboy favorites, I'll earn the money to own both, but until PS3 busts out the games we all know they're capable of, there's no reason to own one... Resistance < Gears of War...(XBox hits first) Heavenly Sword < Halo 3...(Sales, not looks...and while I don't like the Halo, MS has a damned lock on that game.)

Finally, PS3 is buggy, to say the least, and has one thing going for it: A built in Blu Ray player. Just like the PS2, that optical disc tech will be the extra point to put one in the hands of the people who want a Blu Ray Player and for the same price can get a kickass game system to boot.

So, this is bad for PS3 right now, but it's great for gamers. Competition makes for higher standards. So when EA buys everyone out, we're going to get abortions like Madden 06 and Tiger Woods 06...Both abysmal toilet monsters of games, because no one could compete fairly against EAs 'exclusivity'.

Good luck Sony...not like you need it.

alienmastermind

zerokoolpsx

if_deez

leimeisei

perrinbar

Does no body friggin beta test their games anymore??? I mean how hard is it to out source it to us gamers and let us play a beta. Most of us would jump at the chance. God I loved Beta testing WoW and Diablo 2.

Derigor

All multiplatform gaming will be done on my PS3. And seriously what exclusives does the 360 have these days? Mass Effect and Gears will be on PC sooo..... 360 is a waste of space in my house.

Derigor

The new 40s and 80s do not.

fenderfuel08

I understand turning autosave off helps but driving to your save house can be a 15 minute affair if you're far away, and there are countless other bugs such as cutscenes that don't play(but you hear the audio), characters who touch a wall the wrong way and die for no reason causing you to lose the mission, etc.

fenderfuel08

everysystemgamer

fawrh

What's worse, having cold soup served to you at a gourmet restaurant for your first course, or starving to death in Somalia? WTF???

vamponymouse

heavenlyeire

This piece is either very biased or horribly written. It seems like the writer blames Sony for this mess (and also makes it seem as if the problem is only on Sony's console). Also, the title (and therefore the underlying claim) is just insipid. How are sporadic failures (you see, not MASS FAILURES or WIDESPREAD, ACROSS THE BOARD failures) at all comparable to the 360's massive (and entirely unacceptable) failure rate???

Answer me that. And Brian, shame on you. Reading comprehension on YOUR PART may be absent, but as the grand majority of users on this site have come to the same conclusion, I assume that the problem is with the writing, not US.

NoMoreTrolls

This lock-up is not only a problem due to Sony's actions but also due to Rockstar's programming. As Sony's console doesn't do this with any other game (to my knowledge), the blame rests mostly with R*... not Sony. Conversely, RRoD can happen at any time, while playing any game. Whether it occurs due to shoddy materials, bad design, or just because MS rushed the system into the market without due testing, it is one of the most embarrassing electronic failures that I have witnessed (in console gaming). It used to affect 1 out of every 3 consoles, and apparently now it affects 1 out of every 6 (around there is what I keep hearing about the Falcons...). The blame rests solely with MS and can happen to every 360 owner, and therefore it is a much more vexing problem.

NoMoreTrolls

I was over his house yesterday and he was mad as shit, I said that this was like the equivalent of the RRoD and he had NO CLUE WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT (he's a Sony fanboy), I explained it to him and he still had no clue. Blew my mind.

In any event, my 360 has been alive and kicking sense I got it in Dec. I keep it well ventaliated and play for a minimum of 5 hours a day. *knocks on wood*

FunKrusher

I got the impression from this poll that somehow it's Sony's fault for the freezing issues, when it could just as likely be a fault of Rockstar's for not fully testing the game. The freeze is more prominent on the PS3 however the Xbox 360 is not immune to the same issue.

Anyways, the answer is a no-brainer so I find it funny that anyone would even need this poll. RROD is far worse. Now, if you had put rootkits up against RROD, then you would have something, but then that argument wouldn't really fit on this site.

flashtut

jp182

dannyp224433

dadeisvenm

To even compare a massive scale failure such as the RROD with this is ludicrous. Shame on you Owen.

thinred

jtyson

Kleppe

Anyway, RoRD is the bigger issue, although I've never had a single problem with my Xbox 360 that I bought in September of '06. I bought an Intercooler for it right off the bat, so maybe that actually helped, who knows.

I think the GTAIV issue's unfortunate, but there have been a lot of inexcusable production screw ups on AAA titles lately. Halo 3 Limited Editions shipped with inexcusably shoddy disc spindles, causing loose discs which in most cases were too scratched to play by the time they reached the end customer. Believe me this problem was far more widespread than reported.

ORANGE BOX for 360 also has freezing and crashing problems. In fact, I can't finish my copy of HL2 for 360, because of a freezing glitch near the very very end that Valve still does not understand and apparently has no intention of fixing. Pretty pathetic and super frustrating.

Developers need to get their s**t together. There is just no excuse for these sorts of things, especially when I can point to a whole host of lower profile developers who consistently produce games that run without a hitch.

burko

BlackFreefall

NPlace

ajefferism

luxusa

A patchable software glitch is nothing compared to years and years of failed (and failing) consoles due to flawed hardware design.

sgthalka

[www.terminally-incoherent.com]

Are you retarded? Seriously, I'm actually wondering, because goddamn.

Barnolde

The real article here starts with the comments actually addressing Owen's question. It's always interesting to see how other gamers feel over topical issues in an industry many of us invest so much time, money and effort into. So really, well done Owen. For your flame baiting post!

suntorytime

hendonagasaki

I'm not oblivious to Microsoft's contributions to the gaming industry. I simply think the negative contributions outweigh the positive.

chrisgriner

Anybody who has ever had an RROD, inclusive of myself and, I imagine many Kotaku readers. Will know of the heart sinking feeling received when seeing the blinking red lights of death. Even before the RROD I was constantly paranoid of the inevitable death, so it was a stressful encumbrance to deal with when you're trying to relax with some gaming.

But I guess I was more paranoid than most as I wasn't sure MS Aus would warranty my console since it was a launch JPN unit my friend bought for me under his own name. Fortunately they did.

suntorytime

AEGYPT

Today, I bought a PS3 GTAIV pack.

The 360 wasn't even an option, despite the fact that an HDMI 360, plus Halo 3, plus GTAIV is slightly cheaper than the PS3 bundle.

There's simply no way I'm buying poorly designed/manufactured hardware, particularly when MS don't even claim to have fixed it (they're just hopeful it's less common with falcon and subsequent designs).

I greeted this generation with no preconceived notions - had both xbox and PS2 in the last gen. But MS have not only dropped the ball, they've failed to pick it up and are just kicking it along the ground at this point, lowering the price of the 360.

73mike

I concur.

The fact that it's been almost 3 years and MS has yet to fix the dreaded RRoD it's pretty easy to assume that they'll NEVER fix the issue and continue to churn out crappy hardware.

And if think about it why should they? They have the lead (over the PS3 anyway) and the game development community normally starts with the 360 and everyone else later. I think Microsoft's goal was not to totally dominate like the PS2 did, just cause enough pain in the Sony camp and level the playing field a bit. They've done that and even with regular shipments each week of defunct 360's they're still kicking tail in sales.

There's little doubt that they're working on the next Xbox right now and doing what they can to overcome this problem the next time.

incredibilistic

It's possible that all of the readers and commenters of Kotaku are completely missing the point and thusly commenting without having comprehended the post, as you suggested. It's more likely, however, that if such a large number of people have commented and all share similar sentiments, there's at least some validity to their argument.

In other words, your comment would probably do well to be explained.

Artful Dodger

I have been getting the lockups too, and its only if i try to play the game when i am logged in to the PSN, logging out of the PSN stops it locking up completely, and its then issue free. Since i bought GTA primarily to play solo, this hasn't been bothering me at all, and i have plenty to play through before i will be looking at online, by which a patch should be available!

Monkey Majiks

Brian Crecente

mp3

j.howlett

I'd like to point out that it's irrelevant if the article is bad or good (I'm not judging anyway), this is just a frickin' blog. If you think this is flamebait then don't even read through it let alone comment. What's your problem? Seriously?

Owen is doing his job and he is doing it well keeping us posted weekends with interesting stuff and you should be happy for that. Who cares if one article doesn't fit your personal taste or is rated flamebait. Get over it.

Candlejack

Collins1

Just like you are asking me, "you like Sony or Xbox 360", but not "You like PS3 or XBox 360" What kind of bullshit is that...

leroyhk

L_K_M

I'm gonna go for .... option 2!

73mike

There you have it. It can be fixed.

IkariX

Trunks

Ravennaz

el_rezzo

neoraul20

SindhuQualakon

Really, this whole lock-up thing seems to be a bigger issue than most people make it out to be.

EloquentZen

kw4k

IkariX

ChaosTM

silentbob343

interstate78

gizmoduk

el_rezzo

el_rezzo

el_rezzo

At NO point in the lifespan of the PS2 did the failure rate ever even approach the failure rate of the X-Box 360. Yes, the PS2 had a disc read error issue. And yes, Sony didn't handle it in the same manner as MS is handling the 360's RRoD issue (note that their extended warranty ONLY covers that one, specific defect), but the 360 is sitting anywhere between 16% and 35% failure rates and the PS2, despite how it seemed, was still within industry standards (3%ish) for failure rates. The PS2 DRE issue doesn't come CLOSE to the 360's RRoD issue.

samdu

Whereas ANY 360 will do, the PS3 has many SKUs and a lot of them are not available anymore.

I'm really afraid about my PS3 dying on me because it's irreplaceable and Sony won't do jack shit for me if it happens since it's been more than 3 months since I got it.

On the other hand my 360 is golden: I don't give a shit if it dies, it'll be replaced. No worries there.

A lot of people whine about not getting a 360 because of a *possible* RRoD but really with that 3 year warranty it should really be the last of your worries.

interstate78

k3nji

But I do agree that this could be better fixed if this was done in something like a forum format. Hell, at least you'd be able to 'edit' what you say...damn, I wish we had that -_-.

@zanzibarlegend: Well I don't totally disagree w/ what you're saying. I also think there's nothing wrong w/ using eye-catching headlines--hell, that's what always drives me to check an article here. No, the headline is not the issue I see. Now just by my observations, it seems the problem lies in the way the question of the actual poll was delivered. I guess I figure for the sake of all us sane (or as sane as can be, LOL) Kotaku posters--a little bit of clarity goes a long way b/c at least it'll keep the flames low....or at least that my dream.

Now whether that concept actually "works" is another story...XD

MizzDiva

BigChiefSmokem

I've had only minor issues with the PS3 but there are total annoyances here too. I wouldn't compare the RROD to GTA IV lockups, but I would compare it to all the delays and pushbacks and making you buy anther controller for rumble and the still missing Home and the like.

No console experience will ever be perfect. Both are good systems with some issues in the consoles, the software and the firmware to varying degrees depending on what you value most.

lionkitten

kylo4

Jigen

The poll should have just asked which console you were more worried about involving GTAIV with.

el_rezzo

Oh yeah and to answer the question, RROD is much worse :-)

mnartsoul

i dunno just my 2 cents.

zanzibarlegend

It could have been worded better but really the criticism is only validated if you accept that the "flamers" failed to read the lengthy and insightful post that put the poll in context.

So again, I say either restrict each user to a single comment or open up the comments to a forum style and moderate out the dross who are incapable of reading more that 7 words before, ironically, condemning someone for being an idiot.

Jelster

Detha

Alex

@Doomstalk: Awesome and most simple statement to sum this whole article/poll thing. Well put!

I gotta agree Owen slightly dropped the ball on this one. Sure, you can get that he's trying to pose the question in terms of which PR fiasco would effect the future (console) buying choice of perspective new owners that want to play GTA4....there's great insight in the article on that level in reference to that.

Yet, it's not the article that's causing the flamewar--it's his poor structuring of the poll question that's fanning these flames. Sadly, Owen didn't do so great at transitioning what he was talking about in the article very effectively into the actual question.

Asking the poll question: Which is a worse PR nightmare: GTA IV Lockup for Sony, or RRoD for Microsoft?

...in this sense, he gets a "D" for clarity which lead for the whole article and poll to be misunderstood. Now if he had worded in a way similar to this:

"In terms of potential buyers in the market for a console--which is a worse PR nightmare: GTA IV Lockup for Sony, or RRoD for Microsoft?"

See the difference? One way completely opens the flamegates; while the other would at least force those that might not have caught what he meant in the original article to re-read it again--thus hopefully reducing misinterpretation.

MizzDiva

Then someone mentioned something like 'if you bought your 360 after Feb 08' there's no chance for a RROD....based on what information? Honestly, the only way that statement could be true was if MS pulled a "GPFs are fixed!' fiasco again, and made it so that hardware failure caused a green ring of death (GROD).

phloog

NESv1

Makidian

At least game specific you can play other stuff and wait for a replacement or something else.

Witzbold

DorkimusPrime

But I'll still choose the 360 over the PS3, simply due to a better choice of games as of now and the foreseeable future.

Oh and xbox live...

xeifer

Agreed but again that probably comes down to Owen expecting people to at least RTFA. After all a headline is meant to catch your eye but not tell the whole story. Seems pretty sad that people have an attention span of 7 words before shooting off a reply that exactly mirrors the rest of the ADD gaming community.

Jelster

EstoBoogie

"if you were to buy a system to play GTA IV on, which would it be given the publicized problems?"

Bear with me as I respond, number by number:

1). For PR purposes, it doesn't matter that it is affecting both systems; only the PS3 issues are currently being publicized, and this current tempest-in-a-teacup is therefore a liability to Sony.

2). This is not Sony's problem as far as the technical issues are concerned, nor are they to be blamed for it. However, it is Sony's problem as far as PR is concerned, and the vast majority of the market (the people that don't post/read game blogs) is not going to care whether it's Sony's fault or Rockstar's fault; instead, they're going to care that GTA apparently has issues on the PS3 (arguably).

There is no Sony/MS favoritism going on here. Owen asked a legitimate question: if anyone thinks that the issue is going to affect the GTA4's ability to push PS3s, and if so, if it would be a bigger liability than the 360's RRoD as far as the game's ability to push MS's console.

Simply put, he's asking:

"Do you think that GTA4's publicized PS3 issues are going to hurt short-term system sales, in comparison to the 360's history of unreliability?"

The above was a synopsis and simplification of the post, but it's not a re-interpretation. All the info is right there. However, a lot of people just flew off the handle without reading the article.

JustThisGuy

ksins5

Doomstalk

foxhound417

Perception and fact are not the same.

Indeed you have no real idea of the extent of the problem on 360 and PS3, nor the actual cause. You're just going on the same internet perception as everyone else.

This however is moot. The question is, given the "perceptions of problems" on both platforms, which one would you buy to play GTA IV on.

Jelster

1) It affects both platforms

2) It has nothing to do with Sony. Rockstar didn't put their code through enough QA to catch the problem at launch.

To purport that Sony's problem is completely irresponsible "journalism."

Sony deserves props for acknowledging people's concerns for the game. Meanwhile, 360 owners are left in the dark while Microsoft has its head buried in the sand refusing to acknowledge there's a problem playing the game on their platform too. Does that behavior sound familiar to you?

Tanod

But it's not trollish garbage if you actually read the post. The problem is few people got past the "He's a troll", "Hey I can be superior if I call this stupid", "He said WHAT about the 360/PS3" and other mundane, off topic crap.

In this case, if Owen is guilty of anything it's obviously shooting a post way over the heads of the readership of this site.

Jelster

Stikasasn

Of course hardware failures are worse. What the fuck is this garbage?

Tanod

Barf#1

Doomstalk

Jelster

bangbangblah

GLaDOS

Agreed, I'm actually quite shocked by the lack of reading comprehension and snap responses here. This is the same "majority" that democracy relies upon and they can't see the obvious difference between,

"what is the worst issues"
and
"what would affect your buying decision most if picking a system to play GTA IV on".

Even when it's spelled out multiple times the mob is in such a frothy frenzy they don't see it.

Again! I am in the EXACT situation Owen posted about. I am making the EXACT choices he is running a poll on. And while RROD vs (I'll widen the scope) PS3 buggy software isn't the only factor I am considering it is one of them.

Anyone who poopoos this post as unnecessary and dumb really is saying that the 360 will have seen 0% increase in sales during GTA IVs release. Because if it's so obvious that RROD is "the worst" then everyone would have purchased a PS3 to play it on.

Jelster

Ed_209

jerimas

Doomstalk

proust

Wolfers

It's a flaw affecting only GTAIV, and thus only impacts people who want to play GTAIV.

The RRoD affects the entire console and thus could strike at any time when a person wants to play. Regardless of the disc in the tray.

GTAIV's a big deal, but do we honestly have to start giving it's glitches 10/10 as well?

TRT-X

...Sorry, what was the question again?

Antiterra

TheCleaningGuy is no longer (that) disappointed with DMC4

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

so, jumping to the present day and answering the question asked, for PR, this new GTA IV lockup issue is worse for Sony than the RRoD is for MS.

Lanhoj

Sure GTA is a Playstation branded franchise, despite the loss of exclusivity. Yet there is no comparison to bad press and the actual issue itself.

As for the article itself, I don't think it's very fair or informative to leave out the 360 issues with GTAIV is having. My neighbor is tearing his hair out about his freezing issues but apparently are non-existant to Kotaku. Not to mention trying to make such a comparison in any regard. : |

Reule

zoesch

KM91

a) Spraining your ankle
b) Having your foot amputated

Hey, Owen, let us know if you score a Gawker Media Pageview Bonus for this codswallop.

Dr. Steve Brule

You and a few others critized me for making the argument that the PS3 has fewer games than the Xbox 360. One guy asked, what world I live in?

Well, I'm going to go ahead and say I live in reality. And if you go and look at the store shelves today, as I have when contemplating buying a PS3, you'll notice the PS3 game's shelf is substantially smaller than the 360 game shelf.

As Abraiel pointed out, the PS3 hasn't been out as long. Well, yes, that's true, but the simple fact remains that the Xbox 360 still has more games, and more AAA exclusives at this point in time. That is reality folks. I'm not trying to be a fanboy here. I too, am thinking about eventually buying a PS3.

But the majority of its expected AAA exclusives haven't come out yet. And for right now, it's not delusional to say the Xbox 360 has the better exclusives and the biggest library.

But getting back to the point of debate, is the RROD generally a worse PR nightmare than freeze-ups that only occur in one particular game and that can likely be fixed with a downloadable patch? Yes, of course.

Anyway, that's the extent of "fanboyism" I wish to comment on. I think this kind of stuff is pointless, just like the arguments about which system the game look better on. Sigh . . .

DugDawg

KidU

Garo

You have successfully surpassed joystiq's thrashing of Keita Takahashi (for speaking on global warming and world peace) as most sickening display of "journalism" i've ever seen.

(pssst, the freezing is an all console problem)

sol..

Better choices next time eh?

functioningbadly

LosMerengues

Zookey

Sqwerell

While RRoD is all hardware. All a Sony PR needs to say is that the PS3 version of GTA4 is having problems, and Rockstar will fix it. Then the problem goes to rockstar who says yeah we'll make a patch to fix it.

A MS PR would have to say that it's all MS fault and then have to say what MS plans to do to fix it. The 360 still has launch problems that they haven't fixed yet. And the 360 will be 3 this year.

Sailorcancer

technical_ta

jambe

ohhello

Hex

MoeB

Obviously, the 360 has more significant issues, but they're also not half as bad as people make them out to be.

I've had three, count them, three dead 360s. One was a red-ringed launch unit, one was a red-ringed later unit, and one was a video problem. It's never taken more than a couple weeks to get them repaired/replaced. It's a very minor hassle, considering not only the library of games, but the overall quality of use. I can't stand either the PS3, or the Wii. The 360 may have some occasional functioning issues, but to me it's still a far superior presentation and gaming experience.

If something goes wrong, it's just a sweet trip to the candy shop, and we're back in business. Much like the Live! fee, it's a very small price to pay for better gaming. Besides, computers go haywire with games far more frequently (and you have to pay far more), but you never see that headline on blogs.

As for GTA IV, clearly the problem with the PS3 should have been resolved before the game launched. Likewise, Sony should have taken more responsibility for its online play problems.

justhesh

It happened to me, MS say 3 weeks to reapir it... Does MS really think I am going to buy their next console? This is my second my first lasted 2 weeks, this one has lasted 2 years.

DM2

Theres no competition, you cant compare a innate tendancy to brick against something thats a bug at thats fault lays at the feet of the game developer.

Murrytmds

pharcotix

otarumx

Quark

boxmyth

Phenom88

Problem solved.

I don't understand how this even comes close to holding a candle to the debacle that is RROD.

RaepGoblin

d_unique

resetbutton

The Problem:
The game got stuck at the "Loading..." screen which tells you the name of the autosave/save file. I let it keep going until the audio loop corrupted then stopped.

The Fix:
I copied the save file to another account on the PS3 then deleted it. Game loaded up fine then.

They seriously need a gameplay + platform patch out soon.

Mongoosekun

Sorry ^_^; I couldn't resist myself.
...
You raised a valid point. I honestly feel that games lock up for everyone and sometimes it just has to do with memory (RAM) fragmentation and nothing else. GTA being a very big seller, you're bound to see a higher vocalization of these issues. The 360's side of the issue seemed to have died down or the PS3 side of the issue just drowned out its screams because it seems to be a much wider-arching issue. The game has issues on both consoles but the way it's been handled by Sony and Rockstar has led me to believe that the initial 360 report was just more of those random issues you'd expect with a major release. I could be totally wrong about this but I'm just waiting for the whole thing to sort itself out. I'm playing through fine with no issues so it's not a problem I have personal experience with even so that makes it even harder but I can empathize as I (and I'm sure everyone on all consoles) have had games bork on them. Don't take it as the industry is slamming the PS3 though, the squeakier wheel is just getting the grease. Besides, there's always people like "us" (can I be your friend <3) to call out these issues and keep Owen on the straight and narrow ;)

okenny :)

Even if lock ups for GTA4 is pretty bad, you still can play your PS3.

freakoflink

Had my first RRoD yesterday when I was about to start a GTAIV-thon over the weekend.

PixelRambo

HikariOblivion

relic1980

what the hell are you talking about? I don't remember addressing the Disk Read Error issue at all. I talked about the RROD being a very big deal for MS back when it was a very public problem, but that's it.

Some clarification, please?

JustThisGuy

JN64Lover

kspray-dad

Lixie

PURPOSEDLY holding back testing to gain a market edge over the competition is as shameful as it can be, and you defending such acts is as laughable as it can be.

Abriael

I'm not saying that it isn't a problem for both consoles. As a lot of people have stated, it happens quite often on both. However, it seems that the GTA issue is endemic to the PS3, from what I can gather from the stories I've read about it. Unfairly or not, the PS3 seems to be getting the brunt of the criticism. Like you said yourself, other people are making it seem exclusive to the PS3. This will probably change if/when the 360 issues become more public, beyond the specific experiences of blog commenters.

As to the RROD, forgive me for quoting myself, but bear with me:

"I think the average consumer became well-aware of the RROD when it was still fresh, since it was a somewhat common story on a lot of news outlets"

and

"it is also--at this point--old news... the RROD issue has dropped off the radar for most press outlets."

When the RROD became widely publicized (both in enthusiast and MSM press outlets), it was a huge deal that impacted MS's sales numbers. I'm not arguing that consumers know about it now, but it did lead to lost 360 sales when the RROD was the story du jour. In a similar fashion, this could impact PS3 sales, even if I don't really think it'll have much of an impact, or that the MSM is even going to pick up on this story.

JustThisGuy

I read in some forum that people were having some luck turning off there internet connections and/or signing out of the PSN.

I set auto-login on the PSN to off and signed out. Note that I did not have to turn off my internet connection (although with it probably wouldn't hurt) After I did this, the game booted perfectly!!! I should also not that the game got stuck at other "loading..." screens when I did not do this. Another thing that worked to boot was when I played a game of WarHawk first! Undoubtedly one of the issues here has to do with the network or connection and turning off and signing out has given me problem free loading and play ever since. I sure hope this works for you.

PlasmaShark

Aex