Rince

yup, a Radical SR8 holds the 'production' lap record, while Stephan Bellof holds the outright record in a Porsche 917 i think.

as for the whole handling issue - not that anyone is still reading this article! - when the first WRC was in production for the PS2 they created a physics model that accurately depicted the movement of a rally car on a variety of surfaces, but found it it to be undriveable and no fun for the console racer. in fact, it was so well done that Prodrive - who ran Subaru's WRC cars - took on the engine for professional use.

i'd prefer a physics model that is generally predictable and enjoyable rather than one that is 100% accurate because on a console i cannot feel the back end of a car breaking away, nor can i feel the uneven cambers and undulations that occur on most roads.

illocon

murfi

Al87

cantbeatmegaman

QFT.

A dual clutch gearbox is not the typical automatic. It's like having the terminator shift for you. No torque converter, just brutally efficient clutch action.

That said, the GT-R is a really smart car. A casual driver can be far more effective in it on the track as the brains in the thing will compensate for some pretty grievous mistakes. But, put in the hands of an expert it becomes a monster.

It is in all ways a Japanese supercar. They wanted to use the latest technology to allow the driver to drive their best.

But, it's not for everyone.

I expect them to get banned at some drag strips. :-) Put it in "launch mode" and just press the go pedal. But, IMHO, a car the the GT-R is wasted at the strip.

olafson

Superuser

Um, sorry but it's not an automatic. Expensive sports cars don't shift like some cheap stick shift ford.

chiefpoopingpants

Anyway. Records on the Nring don't usually last long.

@skrame ☆: No worries!

Kaneda

Dir_en_grey

skrame ☆

aphex242

a production car is classed as one that requires TUV (Germany) or SVA (UK) approval, and is considered to be the basis for the Nurburgring records, in which case the Radical SR8 (SVA passed, and TUV passed IIRC) holds the record.

of course, there's a fair few RUF/Gemballa/9FF etc that may argue their case as the fastest production cars and try to remove the Radical from the reckoning.

but its all technicalities and not taking away the fact that the GT-R looks like it could be an absolutely brilliant car.

illocon

He must be used to playing with automatic transmissions in his games. :)

Also, I think that it should read 190kmh (I think the originating blog has it wrong too), not 190mph. That would put him at just under 120mph. It is a Japanese car, and they are in Europe, so it makes sense that the guages would read km/h, and this vid never has him pop above 200km/h.

Bacardi151

OmegaKulu

They cant make this game even close to being exactly real and they have to balance a fine line of simulation and fun because half of you nitwits have never driven anything other then your 2002 Honda Civic with modified exhaust and homemade wing spoilers.

The most 99% of you have ever driven is max 110mph and 99% of your time is spent running errands for your mommies or off to class. You have never taken a real sports car out and you have never raced it on any professional race track in the world.

PD has to tone this game down because obviously they need to make it somewhat fun for the spastics, otherwise you'd be spinning your wheels in the grass and pissing yourself at the mere power of some of these vehicles. They need to make it so you can actually complete a lap going around a ring at 150mph that has very little experience driving a car so obviously they can't have "exact" physics in the game. Oh and WTF would you know what the GT-R feels like??? There are a handful of people who have driven this car and needless to say none of them are posting on this forum.

Ive played online and seen how 90% of you drive, and trust me, when they put damage into this game its not going to be realistic because that same percentage of drivers will be done with the race on the first turn as they go barreling at 140mph and then slamming on the break at the last second.

This is not twisted metal, its a game thats mission statement is to make it a driving SIMULATOR. Go on youtube and watch any of these professional races and see how its done. Then see how many of them finish the race in a crumpled wreck. Racing is not about hitting other drivers, its about skill and maneuverability and how you handle your car.

I trust PD with how they will implement damage, but i cringe at the thought of what online play will really be like once you monkeys get the chance to "giggle with glee" at the idea of broken windows and bumpers scraping off the ground.

misturmunkay

it all depends upon what you term 'production' as a Radical has lapped it in 6 minutes 56 seconds.

and the GT-R is 6 seconds slower than a Carrera GT (7:38 compared to 7:32).

illocon

It's really nothing to make fun of. Production cars wise, only the Bugatti Veron can touch the GT-R, and that's until the 2 cars hit a curve. Then the GT-R pulls away.

Kaneda

LittlestLamshi

Kaneda

cant wait for this game to come out.

Drunk3nm0nk3y

cactaur

neoraul20

and the nurburgring nordschleife is a really scary place to go to on a public day - best try to save up the cash and pay for something like an RMA trackday (£600-800 or so) which will give you two days of traffic limited access.

illocon

+ Watch video

Skip forward to about 2:05 to see it.

selfhatingotaku

UFO

Is the car showing MPH, or KPH? When I was in Europe, the vehicles displayed kph as the larger number. I would think that Japan would as well.

Isn't just going 190 kph, or 118 mph? Still fast of course.

Am I wrong?

skrame ☆

I agree completely with Badben. GT5's model is "good enough" to be enjoyable. It doesn't need to be "more realistic".

I think many of us are missing the point of GT5. Yes, it's marketed as "real driving simulator". But it's completely unreasonable to expect it to model real-world physics at 100% accuracy. It's technical possible, and probably not very difficult to execute. The real questions becomes, "Do players really want that"?

Lets say GT5's gameplay models real driving 100% accurately. Do you think gamers will enjoy that? It will take countless hours for your average gamer to master the intricate controls of a race car. Add to the fact that you have very little feedback sitting in front of TV screen. You lose tons of information from real driving that you simply cannot simulate in a TV screen. Your butt on the seat alone, can tell you many things about the condition of the road, the tire, under/oversteer. That's simply impossible to replicate in a consumer electronics.

So, if you want racing game to be 100% accurate with its physics, it'll be more difficult than driving the real car in real world. I don't think many gamers will go for that kind of experience. And if you do, you might as well get a real car and hit the asphalt instead.

razor2025

Disclaimer: I have not played GT5, just 1-4, so I don't know if they've finally corrected that. Still hooked on GTR2 and rFactor for my driving needs.

Swervo

Superuser

Collision physics and damage matter. a lot. Without them you may have a good driving simulator but you'll have a horrible racing simulator.

As it stands, the only thing gt5p is good for is the time trials.

220

As ara said, its a driving simulator, not a crashing simulator, there is always burnout if thats what you are after. Not that burnout has realistic physics either...

jcthewizz

Now from where *I* come from, that's what we call a physics issue. YOU might call it some kind of "enhanced simulatoryness"."

May I remind you that the whole idea of the game is not to crash. Props for Polyphony Digital focusing on things that matter. If there were realistic damage you would just have to restart the race after every mistake, feel free to do so if you feel that it adds enjoyment to the game. Or if you just want to see bits and pieces of cars flying there are other games specifically tailored for you. It has little to do with driving physics as the race would be over if you crash.

ara

adolfo-gomez

I'd sat GTR-2 is probably tops in that arena. If you've ever played it with a good wheel/stick setup, you know what I'm talking about.

GT still wins in my heart though.

Phunk

kiigan

Oh yes, the much discussed Forza 2 crash realism. Hmm.

If you drive head on into a wall at 180 mph and come to a dead stop, you can reverse and drive off again, usually with a bit of a loose bumper. If you hit the wall at a slight angle then your can might pull slightly in one direction. Ah, the realism!

I like Forza well enough, the AI and the way the cars nudge and lean on one another is much better than GT, but the cars feel like they're made of papier mache. There's no weight to the proceedings, and oversteer is so easy to correct that I've never actually spun out on Forza (except when pissing around with the handbrake). Gimme GT any day.

Badben

phrequency

Yeah.

I think most of the complaining, prior to your post, involved GT's retarded penalty system, or prior to that, the inability to roll a car and/or damage it in any way, shape, or form.

Now from where *I* come from, that's what we call a physics issue. YOU might call it some kind of "enhanced simulatoryness".

But that sure doesn't make you right ;)

@Superuser: Yes. It is the most realistic simulation. Until you touch a barrier. Then it becomes the least realistic simulation in the last decade.

aphex242

phrequency

GT physics are very competent. The main difference is the yaw momentum, and the progression rate of grip loss and re-gain, when you start to understeer or oversteer.

In the real car your corrective steering input needs to be 100% correct, and your throttle input for oversteer correction must be absolutely measured. Get it even slightly wrong and you spin, often the other way from the direction of the slide as the car gains grip, twists and loses it again faster than you can react. Also a 'tankslap' is common, where you violently slide from one side to the other, overcorrecting all the time. This is all because the grip comes back very suddenly.

In GT grip comes back very progressively, giving you lots of time and space for inaccuracy in your steering inputs. Also, the car has very little polar momentum as it pivots, so you can capture slides from very big angles with wild steering inputs.

These are clearly decisions made to make the game enjoyable. Who wants to spend all their time looking at a virtual barrier, or sliding across the grass? Given that you lack the 'seat of the pants' sensitivity to the car that you have in the real world, a certain amount of leeway increases the fun-factor. Apart from this grip loss and regain issue, other aspects of the physics are very good, particularly bump handling and linear momentum.

There's my tuppence worth :-)

Badben

side note: the gt-r just set the second fastest laptime on the ring at 7:29, the first being a Zonda F which isn't even in the same class really.

Beasterling

You're not going to convince me that the driving physics are good, I don't car if you have driven a Bugatti at 250 mph, cars don't handle in real life like they do in GT. If you did a bend at 100 mph in GT the car would spin out, crash in to a wall and be perfectly fine at the end of it. I'll take Forza 2 over GT5 everyday of the week. GT5 needs to find the place between their two race modes, that's where the physics should be.

Lucidity

imo

slayaz

solar_tf

UFO

irnchriz

speedsix

hastyp

[driving.timesonline.co.uk]

ara

JimmyHACK

Superuser

starbuck1011

Superuser

NecronomiconUK

sander_dutch

vig0r

And it's really sad to see sports cars transition into paddle shifts.

suntorytime

OmegaKulu

Fistynuts

On a side note, after playing GT5:P for a couple weeks I'm still undecided on damage modelling. Part of me thinks it would ruin what I like so much about GT5 - the purity of avoiding contact to get around the track with the fastest time possible. I ask myself, "If I owned this car, would I ever crash it, and if I did would I keep driving or pit immediately?"

hastyp

badasscat

dionion

ImmortalZ

jacksons98

Shiryu

lol you must have never driven if you think GT comes even close to how real cars drive.

Jeff

Maybe you should drive a car over 66 mph... or a car at all. Cars behave much diffrent in real live than they do in Burnout or Need for Speed...

Superuser

OmegaKulu

Superuser

Lucidity

Superuser

Superuser

NimbusTLD

Witless

Rexter

dionion

Shiryu

dionion

Shiryu

will

Sandldan