freespeech

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

kadosho

Obliquity: I am on permanent staff! :)

Thank you, everyone.

Leigh Alexander

Obliquity

CarneyEspi

Minister of Fun

moobooskitz

My first NYC 'wow' moment was when I was just exploring around at the beginning on foot and found a pizza place that was somewhere under the bridge where Grimaldi's should be. I also think the Astoria beer garden is a nice homage. Once I get to exploring Manhattan and the Bronx I'm sure I'll find a lot more.

Oh, great article by the way.

jetsmanfoley

Don't ban me for this but I feel you shouldn't have put the Sean Bell case in the article. (my feelings are that racism should have nothing to do with the case considering that 2 of the 3 cops that were on trial are black) I feel putting the case in the article could start nasty comments in the comments section.

Anybody who is not normallly a violent game player buy this game and how did they like it? (i do play rpg's though0.

majortom1029

Destrado

Fitz Rhapsody

There are also some good pieces out there on how the demographics of The Wire's viewers clumps around highly educated white professionals and folks who actually live in similarly impacted communities, which might be worth thinking about in the same context.

92FakeThomasJefferson

toneroni

cybereality

TearsandScreams

Shade Malek

However I had my first holy crap moment playing the game last night when I drove through Grand Army Plaza in the game, right down the street from where my girlfriend lives and realized they had the newly renovated Library on Eastern Parkway in the game. Blew me away.

noamjamski

Leigh Alexander

pedantic_dandy

Makes me wonder what the world would be like today if it weren't for games. The world's probably a much better place because of games, not in spite of them.

SolInvictus

IngaSparrow

My comment concerns that which you label "cathartic" because you only consider one side of it.

There is no disputing that on one level the game is a release, an opportunity to imagine a "NY City Otherwise" by actually playing in it and living out fantasies.

But as fantasies, these are cathartic moments of only the virtual. If you've got someone playing this game and saying that they see their own situation in it, then leave it at that, the real-life problem itself is subsumed as merely a "virtual problem" -- something to be encountered and exorcized through its digital re-presentation. In other words, the cathartic can intermingle with the placebo where real political action and impetus is reduced to the virtual.

Obiter

I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain will mistake this game for real NYC life. Anyone who does think that way is seriously ignorant and shouldn't be pandered to. I'm sorry, but I'm glad this game is the way it is and I see no reason for validating the views of the the ignorant. Hows about we work on getting people to separate reality from fiction in their heads before going after gaming?

PlaidNinja

And my parents wonder why I want my own place...

SubKamran

Zenshai

KK

hooligans

Working at that game store though taught me that people are still human, i broke tons of company policies (customers behind the counter on halo day) but i'd rather have kids off the streets playing games than on the streets doing the stuff irl.

Zaos

[www.thedailyshow.com]

ctunightfall

joncoffee

horsekateer

Anyone digging this article?

Jonax

Glad you covered so many angles, well done.

tavit

Shiryu

Just kidding! Kinda.

Super speed NYC walking awesome. I miss my city....

Vabor

robotron3000

I'm a Bronx dad....lol and yes i agree my 4 year old will not be seeing a single sprite of this game at least until he is old enough to understand what he is playing. videogames are the most popular interactive experience. so until my son is old enough to understand what is to struggle in the inner-city, and also
differentiate "real" from "manufactured" situations. while i am confident that GTA4 will make a great attempt to recreate NY with Liberty City, it is important for gamers and readers to also understand that this life in NYC is not a joke. i been held up at gunpoint,jumped,and robbed in front of my own building. so while the real life is not a game, i find a affinity to walk through the life told in the universe of GTA. I mean, i grew up watching Boyz N Da Hood,New Jack City, Scarface. etc. i give those movies props because they try to capture the essence of the innner city, and the struggles that occur. its time we gave games the same props, only when they try to take it to that next level, and bring that life to a game.

sorry for ranting

zanzibarlegend

Yamster

All of the REAL videogame websites are going to die!!

Do you want their blood on your hands??? :(

108

Nobody should judge anybody for how they spend their social security money. That's their own money that they're getting back. And you get SS whether you're rich or poor. Even Bill Gates is gonna be getting social security checks pretty soon. Should he feel bad if he spends it on anything besides food and rent?

badasscat

Mike918

jp182

ceilingFANBOY

Amino

Rince_Art

goldwings

Great read, Leigh. You've always had a knack for the less publicized sides of GTA. Dtoid misses you :(

possiblymalignant

The people interviewed seemed pretty thoughtful (except for that one guy who was going to let his 4 yr. old watch).

The article said some of the people there were poor, but nowhere did it even imply that they were dirty.

Spanish Harlem, to me, conjures up images of good food and lively culture.

Evil Tortie's Mom

Here it is folks. Coming to NYC? Taking the trains in the city?

Buy a "day pass" or plan out the exact amount you would spend.

DO NOT buy more then the nessisary fare. If you do, start swiping people for half the fare cost ($1... but if the cops catch you.)

Don't try to counter an odd amount on the card with another odd amount. You'll just end up with an ODD amount on the card! You CAN'T correct it! ugghhhgg...

Just take a cab.... and pray you survive the ride.

* Fun fact: When NYC Transit was still using tokens, the tokens could be bought and used as currency in the local shops. The same went for WIC checks. But alas no more.

dadeisvenm

I did find MG:Portable Ops to have a good balance though since it is usually hard to draw me in but when that happen, I was like "man...." and kind of felt guilty.

Ignorance's Enemy

Truth= Trust

dadeisvenm

Just don't do anything stupid like fanning yourself with 100 dollar bills while wearing a "I'm RICH BEE-AAACH!!" T-shirt and all will be fine.

dadeisvenm

ceilingFANBOY

The fact that i can reproduce the route i take driving my wife to work (from JC to BK) in the game with guns and destruction instead of just setting in traffic on canal street holds a lot of appeal to me :). Now if their were only Hasidics in broker to run down as they dart in front of traffic at night dressed all black...

NOTE the above statement isn't anti Semitic... I've just come close to accidentally hitting them because they don't check for traffic when walking in the streets and they are hard to see at night in the rain dressed in black overcoats and big black hats.

harlock_JDS

Case in point. When you play Metal Gear Portable Ops. you know from the start that the people you "recruit" are soldiers. They know the risks. But is didn't change the fact that many people (myself included) was emotionally attacked to the very first soldier indoctrinated in to Snake's army and...

[-------------SPOILER------------->
when he died, discovering he vanish from the roster...
[/-------------SPOILER------------->

was a bit touching.

dadeisvenm

otakupaul

ggodo

spot778

Ignorance's Enemy

To answer your crass question... Yes.

Foreign born: 36%
White: 45%
White (non-Hispanic): 37%
Black: 28%
Hispanic (any race): 27%
Asian: 10%

dadeisvenm

resetbutton

oh and pictures or even better a video will show a difference. Many ppl on Kotaku aren't New Yorkers. i dont want them to get the wrong idea about Spanish harlem. Plus I know the article was mostly about non-reposonsible parents and the Sean bell tragedy.

resetbutton

FYI, New York is safe, especially for such a large city, but Toronto is safer.
[www.toronto.ca]

Pata-pwn(TM?)

GTA4 only captures a caricatured New York City and its NYC "lite" as apposed to the real thing. The same twit buying a ticket to come to tour of the real "Liberty City" would quickly find that GTA4's version of the city has all the right looks but the interior is barren; soulless.

Two weeks after the attacks on September 11th, Going back and forth to work, when the 4 train stopped at Wall St., you could still smell the de-comp. in the air of the station. I bring this up because of the 2,000 plus families and multitudes of friends who lost their loved ones in the towers, seeing tourist (form other states no less) gleefully wearing "I Survived Ground Zero" T-Shirts (the equivalent of an "I Survived Auschwitz" T-shirt) and asking for directions to "Ground Zero" really didn't grasp what happened or what was happening to the city.

Scores of people who owned real estate in the City, up'd and left town. Gentrification, education sublimation, dirty politics and beaureacracy.... This is the Real Liberty City. The image you see accompanying the article may seem like high rise "ghettos" but the REAL New Yorkers live there. Even under a heavy hand of oppression, "babies mammas" make due with what ever the fathers could scrape up after both parent pull double shifts while juggling a 12-16 credit semester in college just for a chance at the escalating bar of educational requirement in the New York City job market which is slowly being teleported to a workforce that can work for far less wages in India or China. Thats real. Take all of that and wrap it up in the aforementioned Sean Bell. Promise, Future, Life, and Hope... dashed by dishonest cops and worse a disconnected judicial system where Ashley Olson could check herself into a rehab clinic for a admittedly sizable cocaine habit without a whiff of any criminal persecution while in the same 1010 wins broadcast, Savion Glover gets stung with a purchase of two dime bags get the book thrown at him with heavy fines and charges. Thats Real.

GTA4 may look close to real, but its the literal blood, sweat and tear of the people of the city that make it real, but those non-existent in GTA4.

dadeisvenm

Beyene

Second of all, this article references the Sean Bell case in a VERY limited capacity, and even goes to give it an almost sympathetic slant. The reality of the Sean Bell case is, he was told to STOP, he didn't comply. He was told again; he got into his vehicle, STRUCK a plainclothes officer, rammed into a van, and then was opened fire upon. And 50 shots isn't a "miscommunication", its called a perpetuation of fire; when three officers are firing at once, its very hard to distinguish where the gunfire is coming from, your fellow officers or elsewhere.

So, as this article states, GTA IV may be being used as a cathartic pressure-valve for "frustrated" citizens in the Sean Bell case, but let's be honest here... is anyone else bothered that these people making less than 15,000k per year are using their hard earned cash on 360's and games? I mean come on... social security checks going to video games, especially when there are small children involved. Seems very selfish to me.

AFKnight22

Ignorance's Enemy

FinalFrog

KEELr

Crawl to China

Of course there are better games to keep kids off the streets as for I can name off a million, but I was just staying relevant with the topic and saying GTA4. But of course, we would have to refer back to the maturity level conflict when saying GTA4 is/is not a good game to keep someone's child off the street [after all, it is a highly addictive game] . So I guess a lot of it is more child to child based opposed to a general case.

Ignorance's Enemy

ceilingFANBOY

I'll back resetbutton's comments, having been there there myself it's nothing like it was.

spot778

ggodo

TOWER_JUNKIE

That's a quite dangerous concept to expose a kid to. The main problem being that a parent can even try to explain to the kid that such concept is wrong, but how can he be sure that he's better in communicating than the game itself? A kid may easily see the game, with all it's flashy graphics, phyrotecnics and though guys, as much more interesting than his father's boring speech about morals. That's why one's OWN maturity is needed to play the game without risk, hence the M/18+ ESRB/PEGI ratings.

Games to keep kids off the streets? Of course this is true, but you don't need a GTA to do that, there are plenty safer games to keep kids off the streets.

To go back to the main topic of the article though, it all boils down to one simple concept: If one kills cops in the game because you find it fun, great, more power to him (sometimes i do it too). If one does it because he hates cops, then he's dumb as a rock. Granted.

Abriael

turbofreak

@BlackdogGT: Ahhh spent many an evenings & afternoons in the Beer Garden.

kavits001

ceilingFANBOY

Ignorance's Enemy

Ignorance's Enemy

ggodo

Great read!

MantisDragon

Nice article Leigh. Despite the dilemmas many New Yorkers face on a daily basis, there isn't anyplace else I could imagine myself living in besides the Big Apple. I love the NYC, and I'm loving GTA IV.

KeroseneClimax

Brian Crecente

badmoogle

Abriael

bennifer3000

dabu

ceilingFANBOY

Great read :)

Mahale

Green-clad Gamer Dude

BlackdogGT

Damn straight.

dead_red_eyes

The true criminals, though, aren't violent games, but the careless parents that buy them for their kids.

Abriael

KM91

KM91

Lorigga

I think this says it all. To say that people playing a violent game is unable to realize that there is a separation between what can be done in a video game and what can be done in real life undermines the intelligence of people. Even people who are not educated can be intelligent. Not everything is learned in school. No matter how real video games are, people are going to play them for the aspects that are not real. While the people in these areas may sincerely want to beat down a cop because they feel they have been discriminated against and are frustrated, the people who are playing this game are not the ones who are actually going out and doing such an act. While every person who plays a game like GTA and then goes out and shoots a cop is going to be heralded as an example of how video game violence leads to real violence, no one points is going to showcase a person who plays GTA and doesn't shoot a cop as an example of how video game violence prevents real violence. At times, playing a video game can be just the stress reliever that keeps someone from going out and committing real violence. The pleasure that comes from playing video games is enough to alleviate anger.

It is amazing how often controversy is created from someone trying to speak on behalf of others. Many activists groups are going to attempt to say that GTA is racist and that it is going to offend people living in these ghettos. However, in the end, I think the people who are "supposed" to be offended by this game will find this as an homage. It is a window into their lives. It allows people to see what people living in the ghetto live through.

ceilingFANBOY

oh and mr. "dragon"....he doesn't know crap. Just a loser who talks a lot.

resetbutton

Ask me how i know ;)

kablammyman

Good for him I say!!! Better than the Joseph guy that doesn't mind his 4 year old son watching the game because "it's no problem" and "he won't get to actually control it" (which I think is lame, then again he can do what he wants to ... it's his kid).

dead_red_eyes

resetbutton

bangbangblah

Glad to know that there are people who can face reality.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

Manhattan has a murder ratio the same as Delaware. Look at Chicago when you want to freak out.

It's fricking safer then my hometown of Toronto in Canada. I'm there 5-7 times a year and Harlem and El Bario are nothing like they were back in the 70s-80s. Banks are being put back in those areas , Brownstones are quickly being bought up and gentrification is racing past old boundaries.

The old stereotypes no longer apply, sure you'll get the odd thing once in awhile as you cited the 50 shot case but those are rare and hardly the norm anymore.

spot778

Ignorance's Enemy

I'm a bit bummed that Staten Island wasn't included in the game ... but whatever.

dead_red_eyes

deathbunny

"Her decisions about what games her kids may play are based less on age restrictions and more about her judgment of how the content meshes with her family's values."

Makes me consider the cultural agents at work between inner city and suburban populations that may stimulate this case of incisive indifference towards outside impositions.

While I've often considered this personally, to see it manifested here, in this article, gives it a striking quality of righteousness in my eyes that didn't exist before.

I dunno, something just really touched me about that.

One of my favorite underground rappers by the name of Immortal Technique crafted an articulate Myspace blog post that touches upon the Sean Bell case. I recommend people peruse at their earliest convenience.

[blog.myspace.com]

Que-no-sabe

/NYC Born (Bronx)

Ryfael

Netizen

I don't think many of us realize how close to home, just picking up a controller can be.

fecalchaos

ShaggE

although, the title got my hopes up :(

kathartik

HomerSapien

ggodo

someone666

ggodo

ggodo

bangbangblah

debloon

ban_hammer

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

StartRunning

ThisCharmingMan

So when people say GTA kills, I'll say it's keeping some kids off the real streets and on the virtual ones.

peAr nectAr

HotFootMcCook

I think this reinforces the notion that video games are beneficial as stress relievers. If you're frustrated with life, you can channel that anger into a game instead of blowing up at your family, friends, or just someone you pass by on the street.

Silent Predator

BlazinNoni

GTA IV does hold a special place for me as well. As soon I was able to roam the city, the first thing I did was go to my neighborhood in the game, then go to one of my favorites spots, Beer Garden, and the childhood public piss pool I use to love going to every summer, Astoria Pool. I wanted to see how true to life they are.

New York City is my home and the homage Liberty City pays too it with an extreme attention to detail makes it all the more satisfying to play.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

It's good to see 'normal' people realize that purchasing games like GTA are up to adults and not some politician who has no idea what art or entertainment is. Obviously people who comment somewhere like Kotaku feel strongly about the rating system, but it's good to know those who are less game savvy aren't infected by the Jacks of the world.

rochec

tibbie

nobody will deny these guys their GTA4 =[

Maudite

ditto. I love NYC so much

LittleBigPlaneteer

alecpyron

ChaoticInfinityX

iamcool388

Really good stuff here Leigh.

dan

FrigidAir44