kathartik

silentbobfan

Who play VideoGames? Gamers
Gamers are racist by nature or something? No
Gamers believe in arguments like this? No
Gamers discriminates people by some content in some game? NO

So... what's all the concern? If you don't play games, then you'll never notice anything about what happened in the game... therefore, there won't be any discrimination and such. And if you actually play games, you don't discriminate anybody for thing like this...

When the society became so sensible with stupid things?

Chopper_Mike

This game has negative depictions of people that are within his interest group.

Of course he "disagrees" with the depiction.

Chill out guys. Nobody's taking your games away from you.

Tubatic

EnigmaNemesis

Thing is, if you live in a coastal city in America, there's a good chance that if you think 'Eastern European' or especially "Russian" nowadays, you'll probably think 'gangster' first.

Thing is, being a born and bred New Yorker, this is really accurate. Brighton Beach does not fuck around, they're the new Sicilians.

I mean, I think its silly to make a controversy about it, but the general perception of Eastern European immigrants is that they're mobbed up. I suppose one wouldn't catch this if one doesn't live in a major metropolitan area with a large EE or Russian immigrant population.

Phunk

everysystemgamer

JohnHype

MKD88

jp182

M4A1 SD

deathtastic

But seriously, is this the best controversy GTAIV can drum up? There has to be a pissed off hooker or televangelist somewhere ...

Strangelove

No wonder Nintendo's so fond of having Mario beat up mushrooms. The damned fungus lobby isn't that strong yet.

The_Foo

dsmx

I understand that you have some right to be paranoid with all that Jack Thompson / Fox News stuff, but please consider opposing opinions before posting the usual knee-jerk response. Not all criticisms of GTAIV are from money-grubbing ambulance chasers.

mcderek3000

deathtastic

ParadoxControl

ParadoxControl

In Vice City, it was Italians.
In San Andreas, it was African-Americans.
In GTA IV, it's Russians.
So really, What's new?

KM91

He doesn't, officially, but if you activate the 'Hot Taco' mod, all hell breaks loose!

Wilfmadbloke

vig0r

Royalty.

Yes, Katamari Damacy is prejudice against royal families. Won't anyone think of the royalty, and their wealth and power?

Salen

On the other hand, the most positive image of an Eastern European that I can remember in a Hollywood movie was that hot chick from American Pie.

greatslack

To be fair, a lot of the British tabloids and right wing political groups like to fearmonger (loudly) about eastern europeans coming over and 'stealing our jobs' etc (including allegations of pretty much every kind of petty to organised crime), in particular those from the new EU member states (ala Poland).

I can understand why they'd (the council) feel defensive about any negative stereotyping of them - the likes of the Daily Mail and Express already seem to get along with a lot of racism directed towards eastern europeans (on the basis, I presume, that 'eastern european' is a geographical origin rather than race).

aldo_14

erlik

FOR SHAME, rockstar. i for one will not buy this game, after learning of this INJUSTICE!

:p lol.

joelface

2SBs

Garo

These days, if the main character isn´t a dragon headbuting flowers and mushrooms, you will be protested against for sure.

Krumm

That's just how it is. His name as advertised is Niko.

For a specific purpose I believe.

BlackDove

Garo

I was born in Yugoslavia while it was still one country, in the capital, which is the capital of Serbia today, however before the war broke out we moved to another part of Yugoslavia, which after the split became Croatia. So I'm kind of both, and well, neither. Technically I'm Yugoslavian, a country that no longer exists.

After the whole war ended and all that, I moved to Sweden which is where I am today.

Funnily enough the thing that in the end sold me on GTA4 was the Niko trailer I saw right here; [kotaku.com]

Most people will never know how true that trailer is heh.

BlackDove

"
The figures show that East European immigrants are not proportionately responsible for any increase in crime. This plays on untrue stereotypes."

This is absolute BS. I live in an area in London, which has had about 30,000 eastern euro immigrants admitted to it over the last 3 years, particularly lithuanians and poles and we have just had our first murder in 2 years and a number of stabbings all commited by these immigrants so don't give me this politically correct left wing horse flop. I doubt any of these people who wrote this report live in an area massively overpopulated by these immigrants, so they can stick it.

nitramhax

fadecy

Captain Impulse

Honestly, do you even see the irony in this comment?

Well, lets actually get the facts straight first. It is actually the combined efforts of both Communist Russia and China to thier own people (and in Russia's case, other ethnic civilians), that have caused more death and crime then any other group in history.

[www.arthurhu.com]

Now before you scream "KKK!", keep in mind that I am half-slavic and half-asian, and this article is written by an Asian journalist, with well referenced sources. And of course I'm not implying that every Russian and Chinese person is bad, just individuals within these groups. And no, Anglo white people are not responsible for attrocities, simply individuals of Anglo descent. Should the entire group be blamed? (well, I guess some people think so) Maybe you should pop open a real history book (not that PC crap they feed you at school) and look at how many of the early abolitionists were white. Honestly, war, genocide, and slavery were found in almost every culture and history. Attributing that to one group of people, or saying that that group has made more then anyone else, makes you a racist yourself. Your comment is no better then those people that stereotype all Muslims as terrorists.

No game treats white people as a serious villain? Wow thats rich. Even in GTA III, how about the famous white corrupt cop stereotype? The dirty politician in Vice City (or was it San Andreas?)? The corrupt FBI agent in San Andreas? The ignorant southerners? Aren't these common stereotypes of white people? I could look at every game developed in North America and I bet you over 80% of the main villains are white. Honestly, where are you geting your information?

jtd00111

tshack

Yeah, Niko is Serbian (just like me actually).

Also, a fun fact, his name translated to English literally means "Nobody Whitey", and if I were to paraphrase, it'd go along the lines of "Faceless White Man".

I don't know if Rockstar did that intentionally, but that's how it is.

So really, he's just another white man.

BlackDove

Fonic

But it seems that a lot of people here realise the parody of the steriotype and also understand that it is a steriotype of the mob, not so much the character. Anyway, it seems Niko has been forced into certain positions and isn't some evil guy who have come to Liberty City to cause trouble.

I think sometimes when groups do this it's good because it makes us question something we normally wouldn't and become aware of the topical points of a game. We have all declared that we will not base our judgements of Immigrants on this portrayal. And that's a really positive thing, right? Because a lot of people do hold feelings of negativity and xenophobia towards people from other countries for no reason. And i think that this shows that people who play games are also aware of the truth of a situation.

Mepha

Paxeh

I've seen far too many people say things like that in compleat seriousnesses.

Freekarrtt

Thanks for the intelligent response.

ego531

ego531

chiefpoopingpants

relic1980

Today, I feel like I went back in time. It feels like... Home. It's been far too long since we've had a fresh group of minorities complaining about our friends at Rockstar.

PapaBear434

1. Did I miss something? Or is their race being inputted into a highly iconical video game as the main protagonist? Hm....

2. My race gets to be killed off by ONE white guy while their race gets to run NY. Hmm...

3. Video games have never been racist past, present, or future. Hmm. Stereotypes, in video games at the least have been nothing more than accurate portrayals of a group. Please tell me, would any one find it odd to see a black guy mentioning fried chicken in video games? No, why? Because we fckkn love fried chicken. Would anybody find it weird if a part in a game has a white guy apologizing for bumping into someone? No sir. Why? Because white people are generally not overly aggressive. These things are nothing more than normal behaviors commonly seen within a group/race. Now, if they were playing heavily into stereotypes were every black guy was acting stupid, every Mexican was in a lowrider and tatted up and every white guy was in a business suit, okay, maybe they are pushing the line, but so what. They are not having people running around in KKK hoods lynching black people. They are not having airport security letting everyone go through except the Arabs. So it is nothing more than a mirror of real life, which video games have always been, its just now with today's technology, they can mirror the world a lot more efficiently and accurately.

4. Since it is out there, RE5 is actually looking pretty cool to me. Yeah, it does make me a little uneasy at first killing off my own kind as a white guy, but I mean damn, we are going back to where civilization first started! Where the concept of Zombies originated from! I think it is fckkn awesome once you start to think about it. As long as Capcom does not make the secret weapon a portable tree and a noose, I am all for it.

So I call shenanigans, they just want some attention by calling out a highly respected but controversial video game. They can go shove a MK II dipped in boiling sardine juice up their ass along with Fox News for all I care.

Ignorance's Enemy

cio

DGUW

Come to think of it, I've never heard a member of the military say anything negative about gaming. They seem quite fond of it in general.

Fonic

I didn't hear anyone complain when gangster movies with badass russian mafias popped out everywhere.

But let them complain... this way more people will hear about the game, join the discussion, and see how ridiculous the fuss is.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

elevenoverzero

b: stereo types are funny because there's usually a little truth to them

diodegrey

[kotaku.com]

Spartan1308™

that's how we roll!

Lanhoj

When I get into battles in real life, I can even hear music! Astounding!

Lainface

silentbobfan

artistpavel

The Stereotype I have got because of video games isn't from playing them, it is from the many ignorant and possibly moronic groups that attack video games that never play them or look at facts. When will a group defend gamers and all the Stereotypes we are slandered with. In their eyes everyone who plays video games are Murders, Rapist, Drug Dealers, Terrorist, perverts, and much, much more.

AntiHiro

Nice...

LedRush

T6Spades

bobtheduck

Isn't that the truth.

@Maldron:

Great post!

dead_red_eyes

MisterSleep

LokusT

jambe

But besides that, I'm a little less than halfway through the story, and I've never got the impression than Niko does what he does because he's an immigrant. In fact, when they delve into bits of Niko's backstory and experiences early on in the game (of which I'll be vague, to avoid any possibility of spoilers), you see that Niko being an immigrant is probably the last reason he is who he is.

Frankly, in my opinion, it seems like the JCWI is more working off their own stereotypes about the game than the game is working off stereotypes about immigrants. Sure, there's a number of eastern European criminals in the game, but there's a number of white criminals in the game, black criminals, Irish-American criminals, etc. It's a crime drama essentially set in New York. Not surprisingly, it's going to involve criminals of pretty much every ethnicity found in New York.

Bishmon

Yeah you have a point about stereotypes there, we wouldn't want any of those dumb southern redneck right wing hicks in "flyover country" to get the wrong ideas about other people simply because they come from somewhere else? They grow em real dumb down there, not like where your from.

Freekarrtt

I don't think it's hurting the chances of Eastern European immigrants going to the US.

butterladle

JohnnytheFuture

Amazon_Chris

Grey Gecko

silkylove

There is a difference between stereotype and racism. If one does not wish to be a part of a particular stereotype, then simply do not... By saying that it is a representation of ones countryfolk, that would mean that one places a stereotype upon ones own people... Kind of like saying "You represented a person from my country as a thug. You know, we're not all thugs and I take offense to that".. Inversely, why would one assume that their own countrymen would be portrayed as thugs, as opposed to that individual? *nod*

Dennen

JoeyJo

well, i guess this goes along eastern promises as sterotyping eastern european immigrants as criminals

meltyman

That's a fucking beautiful analogy.

Captain Impulse

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

[ ] Kill
[*] Steal
[ ] Drive on the wrong side
[*] Spread Disease
[*] Eat Children
[*] Bring more relatives over
[ ] Get to 110MPH on the I-110

It's sad what gets blamed on immigrants. What's even sadder is of the small cases of crime that happen, how much of it is learned behavior only once they are exposed to American society. As you pointed out, people will never talk about the many immigrants who come to America, get jobs, raise respectable families with deep values, and have kids who go on to become outstanding citizens becuase that's just not interesting.

On the other hand, not many of these civil liberties groups have a chance of normally being heard so when opportunity knocks, they answer. In GTA4's case... Opportunity kicked down the door with both hands swung outwards with a perverted look on its face yelling: "WHO LOVES YA BABY?!"

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

turbofreak

Illyr

FP Shindokie

@DGUW: Maldron did it already. But can I have the dollar since I pointed it out?

Palladium

Brian Ashcraft

ban_hammer

On the other hand, jeez, Council of Welfare of Immigrants - lighten up, it's just entertainment!

JoeyJo

Captain Impulse

doing

deja vu?

Grey Gecko

Swift_

FP Shindokie

Anyway, I blame Borat. He made the Eastern European the en vogue minority. However, I would imagine that Rockstar doesn't have their main character molesting goats and 69'ing big fat guys.

But I think you have to be sensitive to the advocacy group. There are millions of dumb kids in flyover country whose only interactions with an Eastern European will be in this video game. Are they smart enough to see a difference between a character and reality? Perhaps. But considering how often most use stereotypes to shape their perceptions of the world (and they do -- a lot), I can feel their frustration.

DGUW

JohnnytheFuture

mind in rewind

I_Hate_This_Place

No, not all immigrants cause crime, not all minorities wake up planning to commit murder, not all of the characters played by Cheech Marin are stoners. But those stereotypes carry a dramatic element that is exciting to an outside viewer. It's far more interesting to watch a story about a beat cop than a desk cop, despite the fact that both contribute to helping keep a city safe. And for a damn good reason - it's exciting!

Nobody's here to claim that all immigrants who come to America and contribute to crime, but it's an equal fallacy to claim that immigrants who come to America will never be forced into a life of crime to survive here. Thing is, the story of an immigrant who comes and gets a nice job as a bank teller or a secretary is a far cry away from entertainment.

And that's all this game is.

Maldron

Quazimojo

I realize the storyline isn't as deep in GTA III vs. Vice City (didn't play it so I couldn't tell you much about the character), San Andreas, or GTA IV, but still, they have introduced a variety of main characters. This has to be taken into account--it's not like every game Rockstar makes claims that Eastern Europeans are bad people.

(Maybe spoilers, but not really:)
In fact, from what I've heard about the story (really just the introduction) Niko Bellic isn't even a bad guy--just a guy coping with a bad situation he's been thrown into searching for the opportunity of success.

So just realizing that Niko isn't an evil man could promote the stereotype that Eastern Europeans (even the good ones) might be prone toward crime stereotypes, BUT given the broad range of characters GTA has introduced us to in the past, it's hard to take this criticism to heart.

TuxBobble

monkeytail41

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

Captain Impulse

That is, of course, until we make contact with alien races or create true AI. Then we're completely out of options. ;)

Captain Impulse

GTA IV it's all you buddy! I hope Niko doesn't have a Mexican friend otherwise R* will truly be fucked.

Jelster

Dumari

ShaggE

Monger King

GUNDAM-RX-78-2

Maaxxx

MOP88

I've somehow jumped through some sorta wormhole and apparently it's the late 19th century!

Deaf Mute

Palladium

RickyTV

Take that JCWI!

Siegeman

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

NullsRevenge

RE5 is in Africa, therefore Capcom is prejudiced against black people.

Apparently you're not allowed to do anything involving minorities without kid gloves.

Danin