musicman213

ThurstonCybele

Exanity

The only thing I can find about your connection to Hillary Clinton is that you were AGAINST some legislation that she proposed regarding the sale of 'M' rated video games to minors.

And Jack, I know you have a lot to say but, please try not to post entire pages of letters addressed to others. It's actually gotten to the point that I no longer search for your name, I just look for the gigantic text and what do you now? It's your comment! And where you get so many letters anyway? It seems that everytime you post on this site you have some e-mail regarding the game industry, do you actually just send out that many or do you stockpile them for future comments?

Spiderbait

No, in the 40s they blamed comic books. Fortunately the Comic Code Authority stepped in during the 50s and turned America into a youth-crime free paradise until video games tainted our precious children.

Also, fluoride makes you Communist.

-- Steve

Anton P. Nym

Bernard McGraw

Naelok

Kincyr

HELLSRIDER

Or maybe they'll show this just to ridicule the arguments.

Because the truth is: Blaming on video games is just another form of sensationalism. And it sells.

That's why they still are and will keep hammering on that BS 'till everyone just stops caring.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

Maaxxx

Man, I... feel... weird.

MetaKz

Kincyr

PsycheDiver

I will pick up the book. I'm already doing a report on the correlation between video game violence and crime and this is exactly what I need.

KM91

Samos42

Pastafazool! Give me 1 and a half large and I'll talk to as many kids about video games as you want!!!

Someone got... ripped off...

Boneyard

You must have ignored the entire damn video then.

gravytoast

I agree. For many, video games are a form of releasing stress, tension, depression, and anxiety. It's a form of release. For many who don't play video games and don't have a form to release these emotions and tensions, are they not at greater risk for taking them out violently?

gravytoast

psgamer92

Biguhtree

Jack Thompson, MEGA FAIL!

NeoSnake4/ねおっなけ4

Malavin

I remember going to see "Drunken Master 2" with my roommate and leaving the cinema at 12am. We were so engrossed in "reenacting" the Ax-gang scene that we didn't realize that some people were watching us from their truck. By the end of the night, both parties were whooping and hollering "DRUNKEN MASTA"!

Good times :)

pidgeo5

I'm very interested in picking up their book at some point and getting more information on their study (let's face it, a five minute TV spot is not enough time to fully divulge all aspects of your research).

"Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence" by Gerard Jones is a good read exploring the benefits of exposing children to violent entertainment to help their emotional development. The whole book doesn't focus on video games, but does make some mention of them (it may be a bit old…published in 2003).

Another interesting book is James Paul Gee's "What Video Games Have to Teach Us About Learning and Literacy". In it, he suggests that "(video games) are actually quite intricate learning experiences that have a great deal to teach us about how learning and literacy are changing in the modern world". I've just started the book, and so far, it's pretty interesting.

Also (and this is the final link, I promise!), for anyone who is interested in reading the report made by the Virginia Tech Review Panel, the link is here. I had to read the report for one of my classes, and it is a very in depth look at the incidents that occurred before, during, and after the Virginia Tech tragedy. It also looks at the red flags that should have been noticed, but went unheeded.

Just thought I'd share some more food for thought. Happy reading! :)

pidgeo5

kagebutsu

US gov. for the win!

Quick, someone tell Obama.

BruzeWayne

What I found fascinating was that the study did not completely debunk the belief that "violent games cause children to be violent" but instead put it into a more reasonable context. "Children who watch action movies will want to simulate those violence in a play setting over a short term."

Before this, I (like everyone else) assumed that the V Tech shooter was a gamer. It changes things that he didnt. What i wonder is if this will lead to a major shift in ideology among tech-culture. Will the mark of a "healthy human being" be "plays video games"? In that case, we may end up facing an opposite problem. Its not "you play too many video games" but "you dont play enough".

KreacherOfBloodandRank

Alaron

Crawl to China

foxhound009

Foglight55

I can't claim to have come to the same conclusion first, but for a while I've been saying that kids who aren't allowed game systems will be socially alienated by that restriction.

I tried to teach my parents to play video games, but it just didn't work - they'd die a couple times in Super Mario Bros and conclude that they were no good at it - as if you'll never walk because your first steps don't lead to tapdancing. My dad used to play PC games, but came to equate the PC with work so he didn't want to spend time on it at home to play. (I work all day on PCs and the only thing stopping me is a preference for consoles...)

The experience can be shared sometimes though even among non-gamers. My mom loved watching me play through FFVII the first time. Just a couple weeks ago when I was visiting I showed her Crisis Core and she brought up how much it sucked that Aerith died and there was no way to undo it. That was about a decade ago too!

fuchikoma

Asspigeon

for now

fastball611

I found it more interesting though that the woman looked rather annoyed at the guy for talking so much. Like her eyes, she kept looking at him with this look! And she opened her mouth to speak a few times only to get shut out by the guy. Rather entertaining. ^_^

Shadowmist

How's the disbarment trial going?

Reuptake

mnml10387

DarkFestim

That must be a real pain in the ass.

Reuptake

Shalashaska

HaydenTenno

Dumari

Glamdering

huginn

I got a laugh, mostly cause you were indirectly mentioned. More AT you then with you. That's a Harvard study my friend. One of the greatest learning schools in the world. Jack where did you go? Denison?

The thing is, what you are saying directly goes against exactly that study. That video games aren't murder simulators. Video games seem to be a social connection to people. We play as a group, we interact and be as one. The typical profile for one of your complex go postal shooters tends to be your typical loner. Your lone gunman who has no social outputs. Gaming helps here. It keeps us from being those friendless freaks who think the world is out to get them. It is an output which allows us to vent.

If anything, gaming gives us a new world where we can express our frustrations of the normal life in a safe manner. We can go 'postal' in a world of computer AI's and virtual players and no one gets hurt. Which is far safer then opening up in any school Jack.

If video games were honestly 'murder simulators' then with top selling shooter games, like your named GTA series, which sell millions (an expected 14 million actually with GTA4) would produce an overwhelming number of these would be killers. I'm not seeing that happening. I'm seeing maybe a handful out the millions, hardly a number large enough to make a compairson. Notice that crime has gone down significantly

>
We don't havet millions of people shoot complexes up. Looking at the stats, crime is going down while gaming is going up.
The world isn't going into chaos just because we play video games. We suddendly aren't seeing the end of times because we shoot a virtual lawyer.

Does gaming give us training on weapons? Of course, but no more then a Flight Sim gives a Air force Pilot experience of the sky. It is what you do with that training that counts. A sound healthy mind is far more important factor then any gaming experience when these tragic events happen. It is what you do with that experience, that training, that mindset which backs all of it up, that matters more then anything.

huginn

angry_gamer

D-Lish

Um... they've kinda got proof. They did elaborate studies. It's not like these are no name people off the street. They are Harvard researchers. What, are you going to refute anything anyone ever says unless they first prove to you their some sort demi-god or something? Get a grip.

heartless_king

randomshagz

Let it go, teach parents to give the games their children play a healthy look. 'Issue' solved!

Eregian

MURDERFACE

Nasdaf

KillerBee

Fetus_God_of_Love

As for their claims about the experimental psychologists running research. Yes, lab studies can only show an immediate effect and cannot be generalized to 1) real world aggressive behavior and 2) long-term effects. But other studies have been conducted and published looking at both long-term effects and real world aggressive behavior. What were the results? Same effect. It's not a huge effect, but there is an increase in the likelihood of aggressive behavior.

graddy

they are crazy fans of ratchet and clank
hell they bought a ps3 and a 46" LCD just to play the latest one

makes me proud

knails

thegr33n1

Sad to admit though, I do believe I could do stunts after watching Jackie Chan movies. It's a quick term effect mainly because I keep hurting myself afterwards.

LaserProof

Rebochan

2.5 extra credits this year, go me!

mescalineeyes

For example, the role-reversal situation of children being in the driver's seat and teaching parents to play games is more a factor of generational divide, and this so-called benefit may disappear if video games are able to transition into more mass media.

The researchers also tout that video games, especially as of this generation with online and co-operative cabilities, provide a setting for kids to socialize and interact with each other. Ultimately, it is the internet that bridges these interactions, while video games themselves simply provide a means for an objective-based purpose to interact.

I believe the general takeaway from the study is that video games are a form of entertainment, and as a mass-market product should appeal to most kids. The extreme behaviors that Kutner brings up tend to be exhibited by kids who don't fit the normal profile. So if a teen is completely closed off to their social surroundings, they may be unlikely to embrace video games, many of which require a degree of interacting with others. Or, on the other extreme, if they're only able to interact with others from behind the lens of a HUD, and obsessively live out their lives in the virtual world, then that is a "social marker" for possible instability.

We should be wary of making the same mistake that pundits employ when they argue about causation with respect to video games and violent behavior; we don't want to spin around and say that video games *cause* normal childhood behavior lest our argument becomes just as vulernable as theirs. And the study is certainly careful not to confuse causation/correlation here. Perhaps the safe generalization to make is that it's normal to enjoy video games when consumed at a moderate degree, and playing games doesn't make us weird.

Well, not all of us.

0ldb0y

omg hai JT!! :D

I should show my mom this, also I think I might get this book, this study makes me really happy. ^^

Vidril

I can personally attest to the risk of not playing games. In 4th grade, I did feel isolated from my peers at school because I didn't have many games myself. They were constantly talking about video games at school, sharing magazines and trading games, and I couldn't participate. This lead to some isolation, and probably why I'm somewhat obsessed with games these days. Hmm..

stevesan

Gon

AntiHiro

Doomstalk

foodnaptime

Schoolimangooli the doogie mag goosie!

Cool video, though.

DylanGallagher

Schoolimangooli the doogie mag goosie!

Doomstalk

Schoolimangooli the doogie mag goosie!

islandknight

Coheno

NoFunShogun

Games are just another tool for social interaction, that's why I still prefer get together "party games" over online gaming.

angry_gamer

jasoncourt

tomsamson

Something smart.

Strider-No.9

Angryrider

JustJake

FP Furious_Liver, lacks independence

Jagzthebest

Jagzthebest

VeeKaChu

Cchrist

Krytha

Cchrist

Unfortunately, governments are likely going to ignore the voice of truth. Hell, they are even attempting to ban games here in Switzerland.

Nirual

I didn't read your post it's too long but i think you're wrong anyway.
Hell everyone here is wrong including me! This post is wrong don't listen to it! Why are you still reading?

Cchrist

LaughingCrow

Eden.B

The funniest thing was watching Adam Sesslers face as he desperately tried to act serious that whole time. You could just see there was a wise-crack trying to get out and he was just holding it back.

cybereality

Anyone who refers to Grand Theft Auto as a "simulator" is in dire need of a dictionary. That shit's like a cartoon and nothing about it reflects the real world, so how are you supposed to use it as a simulator for learning to accomplish real-world tasks?

Strange Bedfellows

Ajh

Neo Deus

Regards, Jack Thompson"

Jack, Jack, Jack. When will you realise that ANY media is not responsible for someone's actions. Whatever happened to plain old crazy? What did they blame in the 40's for nut jobs? Churchill Mania?

Lemming

Lemming

John B. Thompson, Attorney at Law
5721 Riviera Drive
Coral Gables, Florida 33146

April 16, 2008

Sheriff Kevin Beary
Orange County Sheriff's Department
2500 W. Colonial Drive
Orlando, FL 32804

Re: Sale of Sexual Material Harmful to Minors in Orange County, Florida

Dear Sheriff Beary:

On April 29, video game retailers will begin selling around the country, and in Orange County, Florida, the video game Grand Theft Auto IV. Previous versions of this game are basically "cop-killing simulators." I have appeared on CBS' 60 Minutes because of my representation of the families of three Alabama police officers killed by a teen who literally trained to kill them on Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.

It appears that this latest version, GTA IV, contains "sexual material harmful to minors," as defined by Florida Statute 847.012, and it appears sale of it to anyone under 18 will thus be a felony criminal act. As you may know, major retailers often violate their own age-ID policies by selling "Mature-rated" games to kids under 17, roughly half the time. But even if the retailers were to adhere to this policy, a game sold to someone 17, if it contains "sexual material harmful to minors," would constitute a criminal act, given the hiatus between the "17 and over" industry rating and the more stringent "18 and over" standard pertaining to sexual material. Game makers and retailers foolishly ignore the various states' and the federal government's laws that define a minor as someone 18, and that someone under that age cannot be sold this sexual material.

Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart and other major retailers in your area routinely ignore the video game industry's "17 and over" policy and sell "Mature" games to anyone of any age, even kids in their early teens. Repeated studies by the Federal Trade Commission have found this. Thus, you can be sure that many, many copies of GTA IV, marked "strong sexual content" like earlier versions of this "cop-killing game" will be sold to kids of all ages in Orange County starting April 29.

This particular game, GTA IV, has been edited for sale in Australia, and here is a news story suggesting some of the level of sexual content that is in the unedited American version that was taken out of the Australian version:
"In regards to what Rockstar has removed for the Australian release, as far as we're aware there was only one sexually violent cut-scene which Rockstar felt would cause the game to be Refused Classification [in Australia].
Unfortunately we're not able to go into specifics until after the game has been released but I can tell you that the scene involves a weapon being inserted into an enemies private area during a mission where Niko is taking revenge after one of his close friends was forced into sexual intercourse during his stay in prison."
In other words, it appears that the above-described scene may be in the unedited American version, along with other sexual content, of course, likely inappropriate for minors.

What we do know is that Rockstar Games, the maker of the GTA games, has put incredible amounts of sexual material in their earlier versions of the game, and in fact they placed a very graphic, sexually explicit mini-game in the Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas game which forced the worldwide recall of the game when the hidden content was discovered. I am a Republican, but I worked with Senator Clinton in effectuating that recall in July 2005. Rockstar lied to the public in that scandalous episode known as "Hot Coffee."

Regardless of the above information as to what may have been removed for Australian consumers, it is clear that GTA IV should not be sold to minors anywhere. Here is the Entertainment Software Rating Board "descriptor" that is on the GTA IV game:

"Intense Violence, Blood, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content,
Partial Nudity, Use of Drugs and Alcohol."

I would strongly urge your Sheriff's Department to issue a warning now to all video game retailers in your County that your Department may proceed against them if it is found that a) GTA IV contains sexual material harmful to minors as defined by Florida Statute 847.012, and b) if these retailers are caught selling this game to minors. They will do so unless warned not to. That is certain. The Federal Trade Commission, as I indicated, has proven that fact over and over and over again.

I am more than happy to assist your Sheriff's Department in this regard, as the sale of this game to minors poses a significant public health and safety problem, as it truly is a murder simulator that has resulted in the deaths of law enforcement officers.

Regards, Jack Thompson

jackthompson

AkiBakiSan

@That Girl Hates You: My dad loves FPSs and it does help with home life and having something to share. He is 56 and loves CoD4, all BF's, RB6' and more than anything he loves GTA's and can't wait for GTA IV.

AntiHiro

StartRunning

That Girl Hates You

Hell if my father told me at this moment that he'd play one of my FPS with me (since those are the only Multiplayer games I have at the moment) I would run out and get a second control for my 360.

Hell, it might elevate some of the tension at home. And yes sadly I do still live at home I will not lie about that.

That Girl Hates You

Aurom

That Girl Hates You

AntiHiro

Cchrist

That's it. They're just saying that the data shows a correlation, which suggests some sort of connection. They suggest that it has something to do with a lack of social integration, and make no claims about which is the cause and which is the effect, or whether some third factor causes both.

Now, I don't think anyone here has seen their data or their exact methodology, so we can't independently evaluate their research. But assuming their data is good, it's hard to find fault with any of their conclusions, which seemed quite modest.

Maybe you're being thrown off by the word "risk"? In this context, it's not being used to mean "Not playing video games is risky!" It's being used to mean "There was a higher statistical occurrence of 'risk' (however they were defining that, social problems, whatever) among the subjects who played M-rated games excessively and the male subjects who did not play games."

That's pure data analysis, not anyone's opinion (again, assuming their actual research was good).

DireWombat

Artdeux

The first game he could compete competently in was Super Mario Kart in '92. He was four, and to this day I tease him about his penchant for bursting into tears whenever he lost a race (of course he pwns m3 in everything now). We also rocked battle mode a ton, and there were taunts we created 16 years ago- e.g. when one chased an opponent with a red shell, it was "TIME TO TAKE YOUR MEDICINE!"- that we still fling today.

There was even a time when gaming proved a positive force for motivation. The boy was doing poorly in school, missing homework, getting sassy etc. It was a real concern around 7-8th grade. He had taken to staying up late hours playing CS and TFC etc. When that began to impact his school, that avenue of enjoyment was cut off.

After a few in-school meetings with all of his teachers, much frustration and shouting at home, he was made to understand that going to school and getting good grades was essentially his "job", and that when and if he started performing said job in a more acceptable manner then he could play to his heart's delight. To our amazement, he did just that, with some honors thrown in (only student in his networking class that was able to independently build a functioning Novell network!).

We still game together, sometimes with his friends, sometimes my wife Wii bowls as well (she gets motion sickness from anything 3D, sadly, but she can manage that). Hell, just yesterday afternoon we started a World Tour in Rock Band!

Maybe as a dedicated, 50-yr-old gamer I'm the exception; I've been involved with some form or another of electronic gaming since '78. It truly is my "hobby", and so muh boy may just be the luckiest kid on earth. The end.

VeeKaChu

sbryce

Isn't that the same thing the ambulance-chasing lawyers have been saying?

elevenoverzero

Oh yeah, I kept wanting to write something about the excitation effect people get after engaging in violent simulation but I guess I'll just let it go...

Krytha

Proudest ahcivement though, is getting my 90 year old grandfather into games, mainly golf games, but still a game. And downloading torrents. Torrents of crappy shows and movies, like Prairie Farm Report, but still.

Xerxes 8933A

kojirodensetsu

ninjikiran

Once again, from the video-
There were 2 extremes.
First, boys and girls who played large amounts of M rated games + for more than 15 hours a week were statistically linked with social problems.
Second, boys who played NO video games were also statistically linked with social problems.

I don't have a lot to go on here, because that's all you can get out of a 5 minute video clip, and I don't know if both correlations were equally significant, or if one was stronger than the other, but that is their evidence for this theory.

Now, presumably they have found that there is a connection between not playing video games and social issues. So, what would you cite as evidence contrary to that? This doesn't have to be solved immediately by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just saying that they've done some work and they're entitled to at least talk about what they've done.

Krytha

Very nice interview and pushed me to want to purchase the book next time I am near a bookstore. My hat is off to the authors. :D

M. Kava

skewt

Cchrist

DarkStreet

ShiNZ

KrsJin

Krytha

Cchrist

Orionsaint

Great video. Must read the book now - any word if/when it's getting to Europe?

mortenfriis

What i'm saying is that i don't believe that risk exist. For fucks sake this way you can say that christmas can highten the risk of suicide in young children. Why? Because everyone got the the pokemon or whatever fad is going on right now and they didn't.

Don't even think about telling people that there might be a risk if you're not sure of your findings. Their telling people to not believe what other people are saying about videogame violence and then they come up with nothing more than some bullshit theory. Asif we should believe that.

Cchrist

They were saying it showed a social disconnect, not that the act of not playing video games itself had any ill effect.

It's like saying 'he didn't go out much' about a violent person, him not going out wasn't what made him violent but it was an indicator of a social disconnect.

Dumari

Kraykan

It's called a joke T-T

Also, people who wouldn't want to hang out with me probably don't exist :(

@Cchrist: "Imo this is bullshit. Not playing games doesnt make you more aggressive "

Yeah, see, there You People go again n-- the conclusion of their research was not that playing games makes kids more aggressive, it's that kids who don't play games tend to be more aggressive.

"Tend to be" does not equal "makes", for God's sake.

108

I had my mom (who is in her sixties)play thru a couple levels of portal. I think she enjoyed it. I think she had trouble rapping her head around "thinking with portals" but yeah, interesting video.

eatrice

There could be a number of explanations for that. Perhaps games serve as a non-harmful release for aggressive feelings or destructive impulses. Perhaps games provide a shared experience to aid in relating to peers. Perhaps one reason young men play games is to fit in with their peers, and so those who don't have strong social connections are less likely to play games, making non-playing an indicator of "risk" if lack of social connections correlates with increased "risk".

There could be a lot of explanations, and exploring the causes of the correlations between non-play and excessive playing of Mature games with negative behaviors could make for illuminating future research.

DireWombat

StealthMaster86

@108: Um, yeah I suppose if this Harvard guy ever swings by Tokyo he'll want to hang out with whoever has his phone number? Why would Bashcraft have his.. what? Anyway, creepy.

Going over the whole thing again, it is interesting that they tear into other people's methodologies (practising on University students IS quite common, but the professors know the drawbacks of using the demographic that is most easily available to them) so I'm kinda interested in their own procedures, which I'm sure are NOT explained in detail in their book, so maybe I'll have to hunt around in my library (assuming it got published - which if this is a new finding, probably hasn't been yet). I mean, surveys are useful and all, but they have drawbacks too...

Krytha

Hell i've gamed my whole life and i was a vey aggressive child. Not because of videogames but because i used to get bullied ALOT. And i was generally unhappy about myself

Sure for a child with those kind of problems escapism is great. But games and aggression? I really dont see a link. And i don't think someone that doesn't know exactly whats going on should bring out his or her findings as truth.

Cchrist

DireWombat

DireWombat

But she likes watching some time.

She watched be play from beginning to end, Assassin Creed. I was amazed. She cant wait to see AC2.

Beyene

thisbeatisbadass

Might have to pick that good up, very cool.

FREIGHT TRAIN

tehFluffz

1. Hilarious juxtaposition of screen image of Dead or Alive Extreme and the spoken words "Mature content". Must be intentional.

2. Geoff Keighley: my hair is still exponentially better than his.

3. Geoff Keighley: I hate my own voice and I still think it's better than his.

4. G4, pay me $200,000 a year and I'll consider a job. Resume: been on MTV news, hate videogames with a passion, dated a swimsuit model for a year.

5. Harvard!

6. I like these people! They're good people!

7. I like the way the woman keeps looking at the man out of the corner of her eyes. Like she's hoping he doesn't say something that she knows he's going to say.

8. I don't think he says it.

9. Love the quarter-second impression of a "media pundit". Love the way he snaps out of it the instant he realizes he's making fun of someone specific he's seen on TV, and he shouldn't "make fun" of people on TV. Conclusion: guy is probably hilarious. Bashcraft, give me this guy's phone number. I'd like to hang out with him if he's ever in Tokyo.

10. Ultimate analysis: Some day, when the old people are all dead, when we're the old people, games will be like movies are now: something everyone is involved in in some degree. Having sex with a woman in order to save your game won't sound silly or ridiculous -- it'll probably be a staple, the stuff life is made of.

11. Conclusion: Will probably read the book.

12. Final thought: Rich though I may be, must find way to get this book for free, experience temporary swell of ego when the voice on the other side of the intercom says "FedEx for Mister Rogers", experience another temporary swell of ego when I retort "That's Rogers-san".

108

svexo

Wait for it though. People are going to take 50% of this research and trumpet it, and ignore the other half of the finding for male individuals who don't play games. From what I've personally read, antisocial behaviour is found the least in adaptive, experimentally inclined kids while those who are incapable of moderation (the kids who play too much Halo I guess?) and those who are socially rigid are the closest ones to problematic behaviour.

Hopefully, what everyone takes away from this is that moderation is the most important thing, not restriction or overuse.

Krytha

I'm definitely going to check out their book.

Bluecell

@Noks415: Yeah some kinda do. To the very least I know dudes that at least play casual games and stuff. Good enough. :3

I would like to state that the Wii has allowed me to convert both my parents to play. Heck, I can't bring the Wii with me to residence because it has to stay at home now so they can play. XD Yay for Wii!

Lyner

However, in no way should one person going (just for an example mind you) crazy and commiting a crime after playing GTA or Halo become a national issue. When will people learn that even in the situations where a movie, game or song might have had a direct influence on someone, it isn't indicative of that media on the general populace?

thinkfreemind

DanteODiabo