The Quake Family Tree - Kotaku Comments

The Quake Family Tree

Paul Soth — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:47:36 MDT

Lot's of memories this brings up. Even some of those single-player Q1 mods made after the source code release. Heh, Nahara. Was still involved in the machinima community when that came out. A nearly four hour long movie and then the game comes out a month later. Anyway, I do wonder how Valve's continued updating of the Source engine would be represented on this.

Paul Soth

The Quake Family Tree

sasquatchua — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:04:56 MDT

NPR Quake? I'm picturing Terry Gross rocket jumping off Michael Crasney's corpse while Ira Glass spawns in with a coy "This week on the show: Act 1. I get a shotgun. Act 2. I gib your ass."

sasquatchua

The Quake Family Tree

changkhan — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:57:18 MDT

@Orin:

Heretic was developed off of Doom (with quite a few upgrades)

changkhan

The Quake Family Tree

changkhan — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:54:34 MDT

@philipofmacedon:

I do! But I made Siege (along with Josh Weier and Perfecto Cuervo), so I'd be expected to remember, I guess... :)

I loved working on that and had a blast playing it online. I only wish it had been picked up and developed as an official mod/game - it seemed people really loved it. We did sort of resurrect the idea as a multiplayer mode for Jedi Academy, but it really fit the fantasy genre so much better...

changkhan

The Quake Family Tree

changkhan — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:49:13 MDT

@DaiMacculate:

The chart is correct about the inheritence of Jedi Outcast from Elite Force. Elite Force was developed from Quake III (which was very difficult - we essentially had to add single-player to Quake III), then we developed Jedi Outcast from Elite Force and Jedi Academy from Jedi Outcast. I can't recall if Ritual developed Elite Force II from EF1, Quake III, FAKK2 or some combination of the three... :)

changkhan

The Quake Family Tree

Slashbunny — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:05:52 MDT

Also- ioquake3 has these children that I know of so far:

OpenMoHAA [en.wikipedia.org]

"efport"
[thilo.kickchat.com]

Slashbunny

The Quake Family Tree

Slashbunny — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:03:22 MDT

@Tei: Warsow uses Qfusion [en.wikipedia.org]

The ioQuake3 engine should be added as a child to Quake III, it is probably the most important quake3-derived engine currently [en.wikipedia.org]

XreaL is a Quake III-based engine, not Quake 2 (or maybe there are two by the same name?)

There are A LOT of Quake III engines out there since the source was released, more than I can keep track of- I would suspect the list would almost be as large as QuakeWorld if you could find an expert on the subject.

Also, check this page for more ideas:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Slashbunny

The Quake Family Tree

Ghiestuk — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:27 MDT

@mescalineeyes:

Quake 2 ctf ->Quake 3 -> Doom 3 -> Quake 4

There fixed that for you.

If they listed Soldier of fortune why not things like Call of duty and medal of honour which are all based of the quake engines? (even Call of duty 4 is a heavily modded Q3 engine). And Half life was based of the quake engine ... bet you didn't know that (it's on the original box art).

Ghiestuk

The Quake Family Tree

Obsidian — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:20:33 MDT

BTW, I suspect that this chart only lists the derivative engines spawned from Quake, not just games and technology licensees otherwise the list would be even more overwhelming.

It's probably why Medal of Honor and Call of Duty are not listed since they licensed IdTech3 and did little modification to the engine itself until much later sequels.

Obsidian

The Quake Family Tree

Altima NEO — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:13:37 MDT

@ryivanV2: *facepalm*

Unreal uses the Unreal Engine.

Altima NEO

The Quake Family Tree

Obsidian — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:11:34 MDT

Even Call of Duty 4 has ties to the idTech engines. The original CoD licensed the Quake 3 engine, the current game uses a heavily modified branch of the idTech engine much like how the Source engine is a derivative of the Quake/Quake2 engines.

If you look at the CoD4 game editor, it works fundamentally like the Radiant line of editors which shows its legacy.

Obsidian

The Quake Family Tree

Orin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:06:44 MDT

What did the original Heretic run on then? if Heretic 2 was the Q2 engine... what was Heretic? Did Id make their own engine for it? lol...?

Orin

The Quake Family Tree

rainofwalrus — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:54:14 MDT

@shemmy: probably omitted on account of Marathon and RotT having CTF before Quake.

rainofwalrus

The Quake Family Tree

shemmy — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:16:23 MDT

where's the CTF mod in all of that? it was the one reason that quake dominated my play time for years.

shemmy

The Quake Family Tree

DuncanR2N — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:10:51 MDT

Like someone above said, Gunman Chronicles should be branched off of HL. Also, Alice should probably branch off of Heavy Metal: FAKK2 as I believe Rogue licensed some of the tech from Ritual that was used in HM:FAKK2.

That's an awsome view of the tree of Quake. I'd love to see the same thing done for Unreal and Lithtech

DuncanR2N

The Quake Family Tree

rainofwalrus — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:03:38 MDT

@Tei: Some on the list are mods as well. More than one actually.

rainofwalrus

The Quake Family Tree

philipofmacedon — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:39:12 MDT

Hexen II was a great game. It's too bad it didn't have a larger following. The "Siege" mod that Raven released for Hexenworld was a true piece of art.

Does anyone else remember Siege?

philipofmacedon

The Quake Family Tree

ncsbert — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:06:48 MDT

Proof that John Carmack and Co. are truly important to this industry.

ncsbert

The Quake Family Tree

Fangeh — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:27:00 MDT

Yes this may be older than time itself, but it seems to be new to a lot of people. I guess most people don't like to google video game engines as I do :P

Fangeh

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:02:59 MDT

@LilBlackDemon: I sould visit more Inside3D. Maybe continue with my sci-fi mod "Ozymandias". Cool to see another quakedev here :D

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

HansHamlin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:34:05 MDT

There's this tiny little game called Call of Duty that was also birthed from that family tree in the offspring of Q3.

HansHamlin

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:22:52 MDT

@Leathersoup: Counterstrike is a mod of half-life(goldsrc), and need half-life to run. Counterstrike:Source is based on Counterstrike, and need half-life2(Source) to run.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

LilBlackDemon — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:21:39 MDT

@Tei: Holy Crap Tei, haven't heard from you since before QuakeSRC went down.

To everybody asking about why CoD1/MoHAA isn't on there, I think this map dates back to about 2002, so those games weren't even *out* yet!

I think DarkPlaces is the base for a few new mods now as well. Maybe LH deserves his own tree :P

LilBlackDemon

The Quake Family Tree

pROvIs — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:18:25 MDT

Seems like they forgot to mention a lot of key games and franchises not to mention all the inspiration but not direct relation this game has caused. This article really should be changed to ID's FPS family tree and start and wolf 3d or Doom. So many game modes and so many ideas came from these. And you can pretty much attribute most online gaming to Quake World.

pROvIs

The Quake Family Tree

s1n6ul4r1ty — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:11:17 MDT

Also on Quake 3 engine used on:

Call of Duty 1 [wiki.cgsociety.org]

and Medal of Honor Allied assault

s1n6ul4r1ty

The Quake Family Tree

inn1t — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:01:04 MDT

@inn1t: Found the original post on ESReality.com: [www.esreality.com]

About 3 years late, Kotaku.

inn1t

The Quake Family Tree

Morgoth — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:58:50 MDT

@Leathersoup: Valve had the liscence to redistribute and modify the quake2 engine

Morgoth

The Quake Family Tree

inn1t — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:58:07 MDT

This tree was posted on ESReality.com about 3 - 4 years ago. Now... if only I could find that thread...

inn1t

The Quake Family Tree

Leathersoup — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:52:15 MDT

@mescalineeyes:

I maybe simply uninformed but I thought that counterstrike used Valve's Half-Life engine. Was there a version of counterstrike that was built for Quake?

Leathersoup

The Quake Family Tree

Red-Herring — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:31:49 MDT

Surprised there is no mention of Medal of Honour:Allied Assault & it's expansions they were all based off an enhanced Quake 3 Arena engine.

Call of Duty 1 was also based of this engine but they wrote their own for CoD2.

Red-Herring

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:29:49 MDT

@rainofwalrus: Q2 RocketArena is a mod, not a engine.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Pestilence — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:16:37 MDT

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens:

No. ETQW was branched off from Doom 3. Ex-SD.

Pestilence

The Quake Family Tree

rainofwalrus — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:09:51 MDT

I'm offended that Q2RocketArena was left off this list. Major flaw.

rainofwalrus

The Quake Family Tree

Morgoth — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:00:12 MDT

Sorry for the annoying comment but the urge is too strong: this hass actually been in the source engine modding wiki for ever and the reasons why games such as UT don't figure is because it's not a tree of games but of engines of games. Hence why games based on the unreal engine don't figure on it

Morgoth

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:59:17 MDT

Sorry. I mean rename Doom3 to idTech3.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:55:37 MDT

I have made a updated version here:
[zerror.com]

Changes:
I have added the fix for Nightfire, idtech5, and renamed Quake4 to "Quake4 (idTech4)".
I have added warsow, has seem the engine is heavily modified from quake2.

I don't rename Quake3 to idTech3, because.. hee!.. I like the old name :D

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

DaiMacculate — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:47:48 MDT

@Tei: Yeah I'd just break ST:EF and Jedi Knight/Jedi Academy off on separate lines, should be a very minor fix. Again, somebody correct me if thats wrong from a tech standpoint, but it seems like each of those games had enough title-specific differences that the engines couldn't have been exactly the same Q3A variant ;)

DaiMacculate

The Quake Family Tree

DaoKaioshin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:33:44 MDT

There are some unmentioned games that use a modification of the engine here:
[en.wikipedia.org]
[en.wikipedia.org]
And I think everything up to tech3 is subject to heavy open source modding now.

And let's not forget the Rage engine
[en.wikipedia.org]

DaoKaioshin

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:14:16 MDT

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens: Fixed. I will upload the new version... as soon I remenber the password for wikipedia..arrgh.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

zerojad — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:13:08 MDT

One Quake to rule them all.
ahah xD
Gotta find that game and play some.

zerojad

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:07:37 MDT

@Tei: heh woops YAY

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:07:16 MDT

@Tei: quake wars as stated by splash damage uses a modified quake4 engine. quake4 engine is a modified doom3 engine but both are knows as idtech4. it branches out in the tree because it uses modifications to incorporate megatexture. [en.wikipedia.org]

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:04:10 MDT

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens: Ok, seems use "id Tech 4" that is Doom3. I add that.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:58:52 MDT

@McKack: Ok, yea, I have confirmed it. Seems I have to fix that.

@foxhound009: OpenArena use a Quake3 engine (ioq3 maybe)

@DaiMacculate: Stuff could be wrong, as I never played these games, and all that data is from users, and a dev. Could have horrible errors on that part of the tree. sorry.

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens: I guest QuakeWars sould connect Enemy Territory. But.. I may need confirmation for this. Also, often there are more than one fater. As some engines use part of others..

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:51:40 MDT

@foxhound009: open arena is merely a game from the q3 engine gone open source. no reason for it to be on the list.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

McKack — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:45:25 MDT

Nightfire doesn't use the Quake 3 engine. It's built upon the GoldSource engine which should branch off of QuakeWorld/Quake 2. I didn't get Nightfire until after Counter-Strike: Condition Zero but I noticed instantly then how similar it "felt"

McKack

The Quake Family Tree

foxhound009 — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:41:09 MDT

HEEYYY... Where's the Open Arena????????????????????????

that's like the biggest(awesomeeeest)
quake 3 rip off ever!

foxhound009

The Quake Family Tree

DaiMacculate — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:37:04 MDT

@DaiMacculate: ST:EF I mean ;)

DaiMacculate

The Quake Family Tree

DaiMacculate — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:36:47 MDT

Nice chart, though I don't get how Jedi Knight II is descended from STV I and 2 when IIRC Jedi Knight 2 came out before or around the same time as both those games? Feel free to correct me, but yeah.

DaiMacculate

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:14:49 MDT

@Tei: do you have a new list coming soon with quake wars? it should sprout from doom 3 or quake 4.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:12:17 MDT

@Gwog: Zestorer seems a map compilation(no engine), and the distribution don't include a engine, and seems engine neutral (other than the link to Tenebrae in downloads). I bet yoy can play that mappack with any engine, but a good one could be Darkplaces, or fritzquake, or maybe Telejano.
[shotgun1.shackspace.com]

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Spiffyness — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:11:44 MDT

Wowies. I still don't like Quake very much (never really understood why...), but when you put its influence in a chart like that it really deserves some respect.

Spiffyness

The Quake Family Tree

Gwog — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:06:07 MDT

Does Zerstorer count for inclusion here? I can't remember if it itself was considered enough of a modification of the engine, or if it used a separate mod.

Maybe it should be included purely due to being awesome?

Kingpin should probably be added, too.

Sweet list.

Gwog

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:04:14 MDT

The origin of this image. A thread on QuakeSRC (the hub for quake engine coders).

[web.archive.org]

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:55:37 MDT

@Yami: Warsow use a heavily modified Quake2 engine. And yes.. sould be added here.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Tei — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:51:41 MDT

Hehehehehe...

Thanks Kotaku to post my Quake Family Tree.
- - -

Guys, submissions to add to this tree is still open.

I need that data:

- Engine name
- Engine derived from

This tree is ENGINEs tree, is not games tree.
But I can consider to include games, If seems the engine has been modified.

Tei

The Quake Family Tree

Quest — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:49:32 MDT

BTW Tei's a Quake enthusiast I'm pretty sure the idea was to show the evolution of quake(1) engine in both its homebrew and commercial applications, which is why the further away it gets from quake the less game titles there are

Quest

The Quake Family Tree

RandolphCarter — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:46:22 MDT

Team Fortress???

RandolphCarter

The Quake Family Tree

Quest — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:37:07 MDT

Wow I haven't seen this image in years. Thanks Kotaku for smacking me in the face with nostalgia.

Quest

The Quake Family Tree

Shiryu — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:37:00 MDT

I remember them all! Man, im old...

Shiryu

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:34:08 MDT

@JorgieX: dont worry, having played both quake wars and unreal 3 online (pc) i am happy to report that the intelligent minority are playing quake based games.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:29:32 MDT

@mescalineeyes: i think the mods listed (even non commercial) are using the software tools for that era quake engine. counterstrike being a half life 1 mod is already disassociated by using half life's tools. since you mention counterstrike, dont you think team fortress would be better suited for a quake family tree mentioning? i think total conversion mods arent really counting here either and thats another point against counterstrike. enemy territory wasnt so much a wolfenstein tc mod but rather a ground up of sorts using quake 3 engine and wolfenstein's themes.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

JorgieX — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:28:12 MDT

Dang this is good stuff for real. I love the Quake franchise. People forget the tru grandfather engine and it wasn't the unreal engine. Many years ago publishers and game designers alike were all about the Quake engine and even though I still see the Id is working on the next generation of the Quake engine I don't see them offering it up as much if at all to my knowlage like the Unreal Engine.

JorgieX

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:25:31 MDT

that's scary, john romero would probably make you his bitch somewhere along the way.

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:24:36 MDT

for the record, i wish i was in the quake family tree.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:23:58 MDT

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens: in my opinion, it does not.
look how even the wolfenstein mods are in there?
now half life 1 uses a heavily modified quake 1 engine, and to be fair, counter-strike was huge, so why mention action quake 2, enemy territory RTCW but not counter-strike?

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

zebber — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:23:47 MDT

Hmm, didn't Gunman Chronicles use some engine alterations that the original Half-Life didn't have? Or was that just marketing misusing technical facts again (BLAST PROCESSING WOOOOOO)?

zebber

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:21:53 MDT

@mescalineeyes: woops, true enough, sorry for that. nonetheless, half my point remains stable.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:18:59 MDT

@Crazy_Buffet_Happens: loathe means not like, silly ;)

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

Crazy_Buffet_Happens — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:18:22 MDT

@mescalineeyes: this isnt about your favorite game you think deserves mentioning. this is a tree to show the games which use quake engines. a bit outdated or maybe i missed warsow and quake wars.

Crazy_Buffet_Happens

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:18:12 MDT

you're making a perfectly valid point, MattB, if only action quake 2 wasn't on there...

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

MattB — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:09:36 MDT

@mescalineeyes: True, although I don't think Counter-Strike actually had any engine modifications. It was essentially the Half-Life engine stock unless I'm mistaken. I make the distinction since that tree looks like it could be a list of actual distinct engines based from the original Quake engine.

MattB

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:06:19 MDT

@MattB: oooh, now it makes a lot more sense, thanks for that, I did not know that, and I used to play rocket arena 3 semi-professionally for 3 years of my life I'll NEVER get back haha

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

MattB — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:05:13 MDT

@mescalineeyes: Quake III is using the id Tech 3 engine. Doom 3 is using id Tech 4 engine. id Tech 4 did indeed begin life as an enhanced version of the id Tech 3 engine hench the chart.

MattB

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:04:53 MDT

@MattB: Counter-Strike. You can't mention Half Life and then just not mention Counter-Strike, as much as I loathe that game, it deserves to be up there.

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

el_rezzo — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:04:46 MDT

@K-Squad! (Badass Edition): I remember reading this on a website a few months ago, no idea where it was though. It may have been Game Developers or something, it was when I was reading up on Half Life's development process.

@ryivanV2: Epic have their own line of engines, called the Unreal Engines, the first UT used the first UE.UE3 is the engine that lots of X360 games are using and is the one causing legal troubles for Epic.

el_rezzo

The Quake Family Tree

Marlor — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:02:55 MDT

@mescalineeyes:

I guess they are saying that Doom 3 was the successor to Quake 3 (in that Quake 3 introduced the id Tech 3 engine, while Doom 3 introduced the id Tech 4 engine). Then Quake 4 used the "Doom 3" (id Tech 4) engine.

They really need to have different arrows for games that used another game's engine, and those that were successors to a previous game (but didn't necessarily use the same engine).

Marlor

The Quake Family Tree

MattB — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:02:04 MDT

There's quite a few games missing from that list. Biggest omission I see is Call of Duty which used the id Tech 3 (Quake III) engine.

MattB

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:02:03 MDT

@el_rezzo:
yeah, the jump from q3 to doom3 is the one I dont get, but thanks... the id connection will do ;)

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

el_rezzo — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:00:39 MDT

@mescalineeyes: All id games, Raven made Quake 4 but they used the Doom 3 engine. So thats the connection.

The Half Life connection is funny because Valve have said that they modified the engine heavily, leaving only about 10% of the id Engine. Does go to show how important id have been to FPS though doesn't it. Hopefully the new Tech 5 engine gets picked up by some companies too.

el_rezzo

The Quake Family Tree

XidZen — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:58:46 MDT

HL is not based on modificated q2 engine? In the past I worked at level design for q3 engine games- mostly for Jedi Outcast/Academy.
Sometimes I miss Radiant-have no time for it :(

XidZen

The Quake Family Tree

Yami — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:57:10 MDT

No Warsow : (

Yami

The Quake Family Tree

mescalineeyes — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:51:13 MDT

I don't get
Quake 3 -> Doom 3 -> Quake 4

anyone care to elaborate?

mescalineeyes

The Quake Family Tree

zerokill — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:50:42 MDT

Interesting to see that the right side of the image contains al the commercially succesfull games and the left side contains mostly hacked/open source games.

zerokill

The Quake Family Tree

IronsUK — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:48:38 MDT

I'd like to see the Mario familiy tree! On second thoughts the internet is not big enough to host such a tree.

IronsUK

The Quake Family Tree

mcderek3000 — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:48:14 MDT

You forgot Prey!

mcderek3000

The Quake Family Tree

munkah — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:45:19 MDT

@ryivanV2: UT didn't use a Quake engine.

munkah

The Quake Family Tree

munkah — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:44:29 MDT

Quake is awesome.

munkah

The Quake Family Tree

ryivanV2 — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:44:14 MDT

I may have missed it but... WHERE THE HECK IS UT?!?!

ryivanV2

The Quake Family Tree

K-Squad! (Badass Edition) — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:44:07 MDT

Where do you go about finding intricate information like this? And second how much of your life do you have to sacrafice to go about finding intricate information like this?

K-Squad! (Badass Edition)