The star, while functional, is just the kind of arbitrary reinforcement that encourages people to add followers just to get reciprocal adds themselves. That very mentality used to be beneath Kotaku's commenting standards, and the star itself to me is actually adding an unnecessary layer to the experience (sorta like when your kindergarten teacher gave you a grade & a star)...

Ultimately it means we're now commenting with those guys who start multiplayer matches with only one of their friends just to cheat their way into getting the achievements.

It's no longer about playing a good game to have fun and pass the time. Now it's about playing a mediocre-to-bad game that you even don't really care about for the sake of a self gratification that has nothing to do with the actual game itself. I think there's a danger that's what the Kotaku community will eventually become, and that it will take all the fun out of visiting a website I truly love.

I think Crecente and Witz and everyone who monitors the comments does a fantastic job, and that incentivising commenting to those who would otherwise remain silent is a bad idea that's only going to make their jobs more difficult in the long run.

stranger

dbushik

Also, not all gamers feel the need to prove themselves to the faceless others, who, until they showed disdain for your chosen hobby, had absolutely nothing to do with you. I can't be the only one who just plays games without regard to other's thoughts and opinions.

rdj

masterdingo

Can't 100% stop it all, but it can be lowered down. Many good suggestions like the invite system or thumbs up, anything of the sorts. More moderators can also do well.

As for the article, I'm a black woman also. I also felt like the trailer wasn't racist. I feel as a whole in the entertainment world, accusing of racism is holding it all back. Stereotypes are still around mainly because we don't "want to offend" and the likes.

For me, let the creator make his/her work and let the people discuss the work. Don't demand they cancel they work and refuse to understand. This goes for everyone understanding a subject they don't really know about.

Chikebo

That being said, I guess I want to pose this question as an Mixed Asian/Pacific Islander/Hispanic American:

If there are games that are viewed as prejudiced towards African-Americans, then are the Japanese more prejudiced towards Caucasian Americans and White Europeans?

I ask this, since I see more a tendecy to have white bad guys than Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterns and African descented individuals. I see about almost the same number of whites as I do monsters and furry animals and polygons and cutouts and plants as antagonists in a game.

Just saying...

...And asking.

Sorry... back to your regularly scheduled forum now.

Soldier_CLE

Dare I say I see a lot of posturing going on here, and yes, from the "good guys" too?

I dassn't.

Billkwando

But no, really. Please bring back the invitation system. PLEASE. These comments are hardly worth reading any more.

Sharpevil

VAMP

Thank you. People like you are the reason why I tried so diligently to become a commenter on this website. I don't comment much, and they're not up to par with many people's comments but the idea that I get to be around when someone can say something I truly couldn't put into words myself is just amazing. Thank you.

AsWater

Yeah, I'll admit I may have jumped the gun a bit when I first saw it, more so than usual since I usually viewed him as on our side. But yeah, he really did have a point, a point I didn't agree with, but a point none the less. And you have an excellent point too, I read through all of the posts up until I went to bed, and a lot of them were just drudgery. It happens a lot too, last one I can think of being both Obama posts.

I came here because my old haunts were dying out (Gamespy Forums and a nice little TF2 server in San Antonio), but at the rate these things keep blowing up, I may have to migrate away from here as well.

Pezdispenser

Barum

I was happy up until that kid got killed over Mortal Combat. The "fatality" comments were just intolerable.

Blinkstale

ninjaraiden

urban_ryoga

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

Ultimately I trust you staffers to do the right thing though. There are definite reasons Kotaku's gone from being some niche blog to being mentioned frequently by most of the big game journalism outlets. The amount of effort put into it makes a huge difference.

@L_K_M:
I like it... and maybe rather than an automated ban system, have an account flagged for editor review when the ratio hits a certain point (to account for site growth) or a set number if friends is zero. It could be Gawker's unique answer to Slashdot-like karma systems.

fuchikoma

L_K_M

UNSTOPPABLE

Witzbold

I often miss these great comments since I barely have time to read Kotaku, let alone comment, and for every troll who gets on my nerves I get to see these intelligent, thoughtful, and/or humorous posts to compensate. Even if I don't have time to do more than skim the news headlines and look at what's interesting I can at least catch the highlights on the weekend, which is great.

KeroseneClimax, thanks for that comment. Thanks to Witzbold as well for nominating this one. I'm glad I didn't miss it.

天雷

Both extremes were involved in an escalation and avoided discussing the actual issue itself. It was the sincere dissenting posters inbetween like mattB, Balius, bassbeast, and retronaut that got lost.

The real issue to me is closet racism and some double hypocrisy. One of Croal's repeated themes was how people couldn't recognize and admit their own prejudices. He reiterated this with far-fetched tests of "You're prejudiced if X" The notion was the same as if I had said "Everyone who sees a wrinkle on their palm masturbates, except me who's above it enough to call you all out on it for your own good." While I know I'm prejudiced - I avoid people who look shady in a shady neighborhood - I was shocked by Croal's downright racist standards. His points had only enough validity to justify the sincerity of his mistakes.

Kotaku doesn't have to comment on any of this, but it chose to. The response from Kotaku was a focus on the trolls and the commenting system, and unnecessarily defended Croal's comments through ad hominem attacks and defense. Yes, get rid of the open commenting system but don't pretend you're not part of the problem itself. That's what this has become. Any time you only have to name your race or the race of your opponents to make your point, or discuss how only respected someone is to defend them, or attack the trolls, you're backpedaling from the real issue. There was an surprising amount of that, and very little about the actual contents of what Croal said.

royaljester

Acute Gamer

Adrock4

D:

Adrock4

Since we know theres a lot of shitfaced tightwads who think when something gets nominated by me its becuase U R TEH WERK 4 KOTAKUZOLZ!

Know what Im sayin?

The more the merrier.

Witzbold

Nominated that one, and saved your little instruction list up there as a draft to my Yahoo Mail to streamline the process. Maybe I'll get really creative and make a form to do it on my website ;)

DaiMacculate

Thanks for helping make him heard, Kotaku.

fecalchaos

I don't need say anything about that articles comments. Thhis just sums it up nicely.

Now can we please get a thumbs up and down system? Pretty please!

Don't folllow anyone.

Its always better to have more and not everything makes than well just one or none.

Witzbold

@huginn: Yeah the star thing is a mixed bag, I can only speak as someone who got his quite quickly after the initial announcement (and I'm not sure if it was Kotaku or io9), it has made me a bit more cautious...I guess I feel the "responsibility" of having it a bit more keenly then I feel any amount of pride or "power" from it. It also hasn't affected the way I read comments, I still read as close to every one as I can when its a post I'm really into.

Leads are crucial people. Its one thing on a comment like this where I'm addressing two other commenters and so really don't need one, but if you write a bad/offensive/nonsensical paragraph at the start of your comment don't be shocked when people dismiss, ignore or skim over it.

DaiMacculate

Not to mention write something that long.

So obviously something is wrong.

I for one have sure noticed the trend in assholes on the rise in the past week or two.

Witzbold

Hand_O_Death

@PapaBear434:
And even though Witz said if you didn't nominate a comment don't complain about there being one, I can't help the fact I see the same thing. It's like that thread traumatized the site and it keeps going back to relive it now after being shocked that there are rude ignorant people on the Internet. I've already said I think the standard of comments on Kotaku is comparatively great. That thread was a mess, but we have the means to pull things back up to a better standard - would we have even noticed the problem if not for it? Measures are being looked into and taken and no solution would be perfect, but I have faith in the editorial staff. There seem to be a lot of stories the last few days going "MY GOD, WHAT HAVE WE DONE?!" To me it seems more like an embarrasing outburst from people the editors really couldn't be held accountable for rather than a full-on crisis.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm dictating how to run the site, I just mean this as feedback from a less staff-oriented POV. Normally I don't like to comment just on the site in a news thread, but I guess this is as close as it gets to a site discussion thread.

fuchikoma

Like I said, maybe if folks actually submitted shit this week we might have had more.

I actually had submitted another decent one cept I think it got lost along the way since it was like 6 days ago.

Witzbold

Sailorcancer

Governments telling me what I may or may not play infringe upon free speech in an obvious manner. It's government censorship, decreasing the number of channels by which I can obtain information.

Yammering LOLcommenters jamming forums with excessive and meaningless comments infringe upon free speech in a less obvious manner, in that their empty verbiage so clutters discussions that any content with insight gets lost, but it's just as effective at shutting down channels of communication as (perhaps more than) government censorship.

Forum bans for yammering don't fall into the category of "censor silencing you because he doesn't like what you're saying", they fall into the category of "usher kicking you out of the theatre because your shouting makes it impossible for everyone else to enjoy the movie."

I went through the "signal to noise" problem more than a decade ago on Usenet and lost that fight. I've lost others since then, too. In the past I've just moved on to new frontiers and greener pastures... but I'm starting to run out of "west" to ride into.

-- Steve

Anton P. Nym

Good point on your side. Pretty nice presentation.

I'm a white male and I feel as though racism is still a part of our country. The problem I have with N'gai's article was that he was searching for racism where there really wasn't any. Or at least there didn't need to be. Thats where I have an issue. Talk about bad treatment at some stores, hiring practices, or wages. yes it is there but c'mon, not in Resident Evil 5.

And as for some of the people who comment here, yes there are a lot of issues that we can see on a daily basis. This is a forum to bring together differing opinions so we can vue how others feel. It isn't a bash fest.

sbrumm1983

theboi

tips(atmark)kotaku.com

Subject: Comments Nomination

1: Original Story Link

2: Nominated Commentors Profile

3: Nominated Comment

4: Your Own Profile

Witzbold

Now we know how our parents felt when we were talking smack and playing Goldeneye in the basement.

txshurricane

Although I agree mostly about what you have to say, I am extremely offended that you would reference the word Emo as a negative thing. Though, I am not saying this site should be Emo, you at least have to have the decency to not single out people as a reference to something bad.

Luffay

txshurricane

I had cause to refer to a group of posters elsewhere some years ago as "shit-flinging howler monkeys", a characterisation I wish I could regret. It's sadly appropriate though, at least in this respect; I wouldn't hang around a troupe of howlers for the same reason I don't hang around forums that allow the 'chantards to run amok. I don't come to blogs to relive "Lord of the Flies". If that's what I see, my fingers will just keep on walking. And as the comment thread here shows, I'm far from the only one who feels the same way.

If Kotaku wants to draw commenters other than the absolute lowest common denominator, if Kotaku wants to keep drawing the prime-demographic eyeballs, it has to do something about those whose conduct is driving away the people who really want to discuss games.

@Groodle: Thanks for illustrating the problem.

-- Steve

Anton P. Nym

As I said before, we need to enjoy this gaming renaissance, not spend time developing new and better ways to hate on each other.

Me personally, I loved that RE5 post, not the idiots but the challenge of having real debates with people on here about something other than gaming. I continue to feel N'Gai was right, and those who continue to feel otherwise are welcome to that opinion, I just ask that we don't start calling each other names over it, which is not a debate but a fight. Stopping that is not the same as strangling free expression and stifling dissension...its just an attempt to make our interaction a bit more civil and well-informed.

@taihen: Yeah its not that all "new" commenters suck, I've seen some really good comments in the last few weeks from people who obviously just discovered this site. Its just that the overall volume has increased...its partially caused by just how awesome Kotaku is at its best, the word of mouth alone must bring them at least 100 new and unique pairs of eyeballs every day, if not far more.

There needs to continue to be a balance, and I don't think anybody at Kotaku is ignoring that...they just think, and I agree, that the fulcrum of that balance might need shifting a bit ;)

DaiMacculate

Oh, are we still talking about this?

Groodle

Also assuming that all of these "poor" and "immature" commenters are in fact, just underage, and I'm sorry Witzbold, I know you're sort of god of the commenters and all, but man, calling the younger generation "bunch of fucking tits" is seriously offensive and honestly no better than the "immature" comments you're supposedly against. I'm technically a legal adult, but I haven't hit the 20's yet and am thus more connected with the younger generation. Now, intelligence is more or less subjective, but I'd like to think I don't act like a "fucking tit" and do respect law on average, just as much as anyone in the 20+ age group. As with anything, sure, there are a few loud and obnoxious dolts in the under twenties, but there are plenty obnoxious dolts (albeit probably more passive about it) in the 20+, too.

And as one last little thing, longer, wordy comments do not necessarily mean more intelligent. You're assuming that those commenters who only said "lol frosted butts" before will suddenly break into introspective thought or quit posting. Somehow what I see happening is the same idiotic comments being posted, but in more words. So instead of having one sentence of vapid shit, it'll be a paragraph of the same. And at least idiotic comments are short and easily skipped by.

taihen

aesthetis

I don't accept your apology. The fact that the original poster of the joke was banned is bullshit.

Did you read the later post about a killer who stabbed, decapitated, and burned his victim? People were making jokes there no problem, no bans.

As I insinuated earlier here, I think the Kotaku community and administration has delusions of sophistication when the site really doesn't justify it. And to reiterate: Yes, I like the site, and obviously we all do. But seriously, pantsu newsposts, frequent typos, inconsistent standards of behaviour and integrity... if you guys want this place to be as classy as you're dreaming, a lot would have to change, including the blog that brought us all here in the first place.

Snaphaunce

Also, I'm not sure of how many of you are aware of it, but have you actually read the comment sections of the articles that Kotaku links to? It's not at the level of 4chan (...yet...), but Kotaku commenters are already developing an infamous sort of reputation among online gaming blogs. I've read comments on linked articles that have said things like "Awaiting influx of kotaku commenters in 5...4...3...2.." It's shameful that this site has that kind of reputation. What I think a lot of people fail to realize is that the quality of a site is often gauged by the integrity and quality of its commenters.

Kotaku is a wonderful site full of great news stories and information relating to Video Games, and I for one am often ashamed to see these kinds of posts on other sites talking about Kotaku in that manner. So if you don't have anything meaningful to add or say, just...don't say it, at least on the main comment thread. Use the e-mail reply so that those who are actually interested in reading through the comments don't have to go through 50+ lines of "Fatality," "Well said," "So I herd u liek mudkipz," ":)," and "omg lulz ur such a fucking noob!"

Dyram

KM91

You people are ridiculous. How can you just let someone tell you what to think like that?

I'll clarify myself a little now: I'm a white male, upper middle class, currently in university. Keep that in mind and understand any biases you expect me to have as a result of it. But I honestly do not see anything wrong with Resident Evil 5.

Now, maybe fewer of you do than it appears, because the majority only seem concerned over the more retarded comments like "what kind of namie is ngai" and if thats the only problem you guys all have, I guess I don't really have a problem with anything thats going on now anyways.

When I first say the trailer, the first thing that popped into mind was awsome, they're working on the sequel. But I suppose everyone sees what they want to see, and N'Gai sees blatant racism. More so than that, he tries to tell me it's what I see too, and is angry when other people don't consider it racist. How does he want us to move on as a species? If we keep bringing everything back to the same one thing, we can't move forward.

Now, that statement can itself be misconstrued to make me look like a jackass. I understand, slavery was a real thing in America very recently and the wound is still fresh. But do I personally feel guilty for it, simply because I'm white? No, of course not. Besides the facts that I'm Canadian, and my family only emigrated here recently.

I don't know, and I never will have any idea what it would be like to a black person today. I understand the world isn't perfect, and they can be treated unfairly. But if people want equality, they have to accept this game as it is. If it's ok to make the Zombies white, hispanic, asian, then it should be ok to make them black. The simple definition of racism is treating people differently based on their ethnic or cultural heritage, is it not? Keeping black people out of this game would be different treatment for them, and that in and of itself is racism. To quote N'Gai, "I don't know to put it any simpler than that".

cavanaugh

Last week we were discussing education on an unnamed political site. I mentioned that I was an educator with two Masters degrees because someone asked. I offered to answer some of the posters' questions based on my daily experience teaching troubled kids. Immediately responses from adult posters ranged from homophobic slurs to telling me that any degree in education was worthless and I should ask for an immediate refund on my tuition to calling me a pedophile communist.

All I mentioned was that I was a teacher with an extensive research/college background, and this was website where the average poster is likely in the 28-55 age group.

It's not just kids and games and fanboys that bring this out It really is the anonymity of the web and somehow the need to tear others down in order to make the self feel superior in some way.

I have hopes that someone will come up with a way to combat this, but I'm not sure what that would be. Real names required somehow? But that would be unattractive to me, for example, because my students could track my opinions online (all students google their teachers nowadays) and I try to remain objective and unbiased in my classroom.

Not sure what the answer is, other than further policing and banning, but that too strikes me as wrong too - somehow censorship and elitism. But just having this ongoing discussion is a good idea and might make people think twice. But I would guess a lot of the people that are offending wouldn't bother to read this thread anyway...

lionkitten

KirbyMorph

MajorMcMuffin

You're only feeding the fire and imo i really don't care about your standing on this. Fuck i definitly don't want to read 250 posts about it. I'm not saying this to annoy or aggrevate people. I'm just fed up with reading the same things over and over again. This is the third article with the same comments. Now stop. Please. Someone has already said what you wanted to say and they probably did a better job at it too.

And again this isn't t piss people off it's just my two eurocents.

Cchrist

MattB

I think part of the outpouring of blather on that original post stemmed from the fact that people didn't take a moment to understand why they were upset. I mean, they got angry, but they didn't really take a moment to examine inside WHY they were angry. They just immediately typed and posted, not even understanding why.

jayntampa

Vidunder

My posting is down because often times. I just don't want to wade through the comment crap that I see. I don't see alot of the great posts done every week because of this.

@DaiMacculate: Agree on the commenting elite to a point. There has been a bit of a divide at Kotaku forming for months now. The advent of the popularity contest for the ban hammer was imho, a nightmare and a distraction. The stars are a mixed bag. I'm waiting to see if it is abused or if it is really nice. While at the same time, we have these low level net-tards which bring nothing by wasted brain space to comprehend their words.

huginn

ConstantCupcake

huginn

also the statement "that no black people were involved in developing the game" is in itself racist.

retronaut

I see it every day on the news (we have the news networks running 24/7 where I work) where some kids do something just to get on youtube or some idiot is fleeing from the police.

I have to answer your question with yes. Yes, not acting like a bunch of fucking tits is a hard request to follow. =\

I must be getting old before my time because I'm starting to get more bitter and jaded with the state that the world is in. (Politics, judiciary issues, the media, people in general.)

placebofud

I both agree and disagree with the above comment. I did add a comment to the article, and I was in the "Croal is full of shit" side of things. Funny thing is, when I was with a black gamer friend of mine, I showed him the article. His reaction? "Wow, he's full of shit. And you say he's a respected journalist?" In spite of how I felt about his comments, I still respect Croal as a journalist, because he's got the integrity to speak his mind. However, he knows he's doing that in a public forum, which means he's going to be the subject of dissention.

I think there was a lot of raw emotion put forth in that article and its response. I still stand by my comments, and agree wholeheartedly that N'Gai is just as racist as that which he thinks he sees. When I saw that trailer, I didn't see a white guy killing black guys. I saw a new setting, new gameplay mechanic in the bright daylight (first RE game to feature this, which is exciting), return of an old protagonist. Am I ignorant that I didn't associate any negative connotations with this? I am a university-educated, Jewish Canadian. I am aware of history, and I can tell you that my culture has definitely seen its share of persecution. But at the end of the day, I can't shake my feelings that Croal was on some sort of soapbox for very little reason other than being overly-sensitive and *gasp!* being racist himself, though in a reverse kind of way.

These comments are something I would be willing to argue to his face. And this, friends, is what's missing in debate.

I would suggest that most people - particularly gamers on Live - should look up what an ad hominem attack is.

Finally, and apologies for the long post, remember this post was about a hot-button issue the world over. One cannot paint gamers with the brush of boorish behaviour over this issue. Besides, have we forgotten what good gamers have done (i.e. Child's Play, all the helping Kotaku has done for random strangers like that waitress) over the years? Things aren't always, and pardon the pun, black or white.

bassbeast

Barf#1

I just think Kotaku Tower is shocked that people on the internet can be stupid and immature, and are in panic mode as to how to deal with the influx of stupid a site deals with when the proverbial floodgates are opened. Comments like Kerosene's only lead to brown nosing, which isn't conducive to intelligent banter/debate at all.

Custom Reality

Also, I've noticed yours is not the first post to include me in the "select" group of more elite commenters here, and I am more humbled every time that happens. I'm a person who lurked here for a long time and finally got in when the audition system went up, and I love the site, but I never view myself as being in the upper echelon of commenters or anything. All I can say is thanks back (To you, WreckTheLaw, others) for thinking highly of me and I'll try not to let it go to my head ;)

@dv8godd: Now there is an "elite" comment if I ever saw one. Not that its a huge digression for you or anything :)

The funniest thing is what an amazing time in gaming this is. Its like every single long term big dev project game either came out in the last 6 months or will in the next 12, and we should all be reveling in it.

Hell, I would argue that on top of PC gaming continuing to push the limits of technical capacity we've got FIVE viable game consoles, each with good exclusives and their own niche audience (or the Wii, which apparently is all but the most "leet" gamers), succeeding simultaneously, if not in all regions at once.

These are the Halcyon Days my brothers and sisters, and we must grasp them while they last, for they are fleeting by nature.

DaiMacculate

Witzbold

im sorry everybody.

shaunomacx

Is not acting like a bunch of fucking tits really all that hard of a request to follow? I mean really?

Witzbold

For me, 80% of my posts anymore aren't even about gaming... they're about being posters being civil to other posters or trying to articulate why I think Witzbold is doing a good job in lowering the ban bar.

I've been coming around a lot less myself because I feel like Kotaku is less about the gaming for me and more about crowd control. Not that I'm some damn authority in Kotaku policy any more than gaming and I'm sure not getting paid for crowd control like Witz, but... well... it's just a bit of a waste.

I don't mind an open doorway... but damn, people walking in the door should at least TRY to get along with their neighbors.

A year ago I'd have endeavored to make a really articulate post about what I agreed with that N'Gai said... now I'd just be trying to manage trolling. I don't even know why people follow me anymore since most of what I say is the same shit over and over about trying not to be assholes to each other or how they should read the full article.

Is this the new state of things? Sucks for me, can't imagine the Kotaku editors really want me doing it either. If they liked my earlier approach to commentary, this is just wasting my energy... and if they didn't like my previous commentary, I shouldn't be talking policy.

But what else to do when shit keeps getting deeper despite the hammer swinging like mad?

In all seriousness... I want to start commenting about gaming again.

Commenting about commenting was a nice experiment for a while... but we're going way off topic as a community. I don't say that lightly, because I really DO believe we need to get our bearings again here on the site. But when half the Week-in-Comments posts anymore are about how not to be an asshole to each other, and you've got a whole week dedicated to that concept, you've clearly stepped off the rails as a community.

I don't know if that means a hard reset or closed doors or new policies or new software... but it means something.

I want to be able to go into a serious post and talk about serious things without worrying about 200 posts of racist stereotypes AND I want to be able to see lighter hearted posts without it digressing into the same tired memes. I do want my cake and to eat it too, I know... but I used to be able to do both, and now I do neither.

I know I want to get back on the rails as a member of the community, and I know I'm not alone.

dv8godd

I love gaming, and want to be part of the community so I can chat and discuss my hobby. But when you see intelligent discussion drowned out by ill-judged 'debate' or over-use of once funny but now tired memes it can be a little down-heartening.

Kotaku is one of the places (along with the likes of Edge) I feel I can actually come and read intelligent, witty and passionate commentary about all things gaming. In a world where gaming outlets often lack credible independence, or forums where one line posts constitute intelligent debate, it is nice to see a place that feels like it is actually challenging the norm and not just attracting those who feel the anonymity of the internet simply provides an excuse to mouth off. It is a shame to see some posts on Kotaku descend into such anarchy.

I think the chosen comment this weeks highlights why many highlight Kotaku as the premier gaming blog, but also how difficult it will be to keep it like that. The gaming community is still young, trying to find its feet.

Yesterday I filed my first complaint about a despicable racist player on Xbox Live. I've come across them before, but never took the time to report them. Hopefully little things like this can improve - however minor that change is - the way the community works. Posts like this also try and address the issues plaguing gaming these days, and hopefully people will continue to examine the way the community works and strive to improve it.

Things aren't perfect the way it stands. KeroseneClimax sums this up better than I ever could. But things change, and hopefully with enough effort gamers will be able to discuss their hobby with reason, respect and insight. It might be a while, but many of the comments here suggest it can happen.

johnny_ultimate

dv8godd

Witzbold

And not just because the vast majority of my posts are 25,000 characters long. :D

dv8godd

Eltigro

Obviously there would be the temptation for the offending types of people to fill up the rest of their comment (after writing something like "lolz, what kind of namie is N'Gai?") with superfluous words, spaces and characters. If you fill up your remaining quota in an obvious way you should be banned.

It's an instant solution to all the "first" idiocy, whilst hopefully encouraging the more thoughtful commenters amongst us to add their valuable article feedback and opinions. For reference this paragraph is exactly 264 characters long. Not too much to ask, is it?

aesthetis

I will say that I will only welcome more researched and thought out responses, though. I don't think the OP was saying that dissent was unwelcomed, as he said he disagreed with the opinion of N'Gai Croal, he just wished people actually thought out their responses after reading the linked article and treated other people's opinions with the same respect as their own.

peacefuloutrage

my spoon is too big

And, what you wrote was beautiful, Kerosene. Herehere!

ハリセンボン

Seconded

StormTec

illiterati

I feel like we as the Kotaku fans and have gotten a nice firm talking to the past couple of days. It's rather wild the amount of...connection I feel somehow to this blog. I feel dumb saying that, but if comments were sealed off and I was on the outside looking...I dunno. I'd feel a little crushed no lie. Very odd thing.

MasterSauce

FP Furious_Liver, lacks independence

koji

I agree, there have been some outrageous off-color comments recently, but I am not sure a "ban-massacre" is the answer. It feels very much like the US gov't, thinking they can fix society by putting more and more non-violent criminals in jail. Is that really what we want to show the younger generation? If the solution is to simply ban everyone that doesn't comply with the accepted "politically-correct" vernacular of the day, how is that any different from the racist, bigot mentality we are trying to erase?

cybereality

In general, it was obviously meant to be a rallying cry against the terrible commenting going on in that topic. Super, I get that. In that spirit, people needed to be pulled back in. I refrained from commenting, myself, because my own views in that particular article ran partially in tandem with the crowd. I had no desire to join that particular club, so I shut my damn trap. Sure, I could see how the trailer might appear racist to some. I couldn't consider it to be racist myself, because I knew that the developers didn't intend the offense they had given, and to me that intent toward racism is what defines racism. I didn't add my comment, because the sea of comments wasn't something I cared to wade into.

That said, this particular rallying cry toward sensibility isn't something I can endorse or embrace.

I can't support the idea of humorless commenting because someone might view a topic with greater gravitas than others do. Sure, religion, race, crime, gender, and politics are hotbed issues for some. For others, it may well be education, or the economy, or Sonic the hedgehog. Is the line drawn somewhere? What percentage of people must be likely to become offended by a joke before that joke becomes taboo? People all over the world have differing taboos and mores, even if they superficially share certain traits. If, as the comment says, members here are from all over the world, must we take a demographic minded census before we treat a subject with levity? Especially since the quoted comment decries taking the tone of the article as an indication of the tone of the comments to follow. I don't want to read a site full of comments that are...well...like my own. I personally feel that a hard rule isn't in the best interests here. If someone crosses the line, report them. I assume that there are people who volunteer to take care of those miscreants who can't judge when to stop, and am more willing to see those people work a little more than to see this site become cracker dry.

I can't support the idea that comments shouldn't veer from the original article, since drifting topics are the nature of discourse in general. KeroseneClimax himself suggests that people need to read the article and the comments before replying; replying to the content of the comments will always cause any comment-based system to drift unpredictably. You can have either one or the other, but in order to have people read the comments before they themselves reply and still talk directly about the subject of the article requires that person to ignore everything they just read. I.e. disrespect the other members. If the only purpose were to weed out repeated comments ("I agree" ad nauseum) a lot of the more enlightening comments would go unsaid. I like to know what people think, regardless of repeats. If I didn't, I could simply skip the comments altogether.

So, you can see that I disagree with the content of the highlighted comment, but I agree with the general tone. I do skip a lot of comments, or at least simply skim them. A lot of the contributors, who I unfairly assume to be young, simply don't have anything to say that I'm interested in reading.

I can think of an ideal way to organize the comments to suit me, but that solution might not be possible with the software available to Kotaku. Which is where I'm rooted...while I wish that the SYSTEM were better able to prune comments I'm personally not interested in, it doesn't now do so and I can't cry for change unless I know it's a possibility. I don't wade in shit and I don't bang my head against the wall.

Balius

Nice post, KC. :)

Xsyven

... there is not enough alcohol in the world.

XWonka

silentbob343

reddevil3

Sorry, that's a nonsense. I'm a white middle class anglo/celtic male, the problems this brings me are tiny compared to the difficulties I'd have if I were female, or black or Arabic etc...

Saying that we're all equal is flying in the face of the facts, the rich lists are not made up of an equal cross section of society, neither are the jails, and neither are the books we read, films we watch and games we play made up of an equal ratio of protagonists/ antagonists from all sections of society.

Cruithne

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

I read N'Gai's interview and I must say that regardless of whether or not we agree with what he said, he brought a very valid point to the table unlike that other blogger that everyone slammed for saying that RE5 was a racist game.

What I found interesting about his post was that he touched on a few things that we never think about. Most people looked at the trailer and didn't really blink at it and just thought "Oh COOL!"

However once the topic of race came in most people either thought "There is no racism in this, its not even real" while others simply scratched their heads thinking about what the hell these other people were talking about.

Croal put it into perspective by talking about how historically images like what you saw in resident evil have been used to describe black people.

I'm not an American but I am black, so I cannot really fathom how deep this goes outside of what I read and what I have researched. One thing I do know though is that when a friend of and member of the gamimg community comes forward and discusses something as serious as this, in a tone thats not damning but instead very frank and actually informative then I think that the rest of the community should (and I apologize for this shift in tone)

Shut the fuck up.
Sit Down.
And listen.

Basically think of it this way. How often do we get riled up over the media depicting gamers as maladjusted social lepers that are ticking time bombs that never get laid?

How often does it happen?

Thats pretty much a very watered down version of what Croal was talking about.

Black Arts Viper

However, someone must have cured cancer, solved the middle crisis or abolished poverty, because some there were a few comments in that thread that were so evil they actually require a nemesis.

Ultimately, the purpose for this site is to provide unbiased gaming news. I am very happy that the article was posted, it underlines the luxury of this site's functionality by being able to actually comment on the news and not just view it.

The real question is if an article like this one and the debacle that followed will result in Kotaku journalists thinking twice before posting such articles...?

I humbly ask that you continue to post sensitive articles. Not doing so would mean those that post to insult, incite hatred and even platform their bigotry and hatred towards others... won so to speak.

Select a few more volunteer moderators, establish a post "Karma" or "Rating" system... do whatever it takes to making striking down those that cannot post appropriately easier, but please keep the unfiltered content coming.

Games mimic life culture. Topics will always arise that readers respond to emotionally.

Patient

xanavi

Verum

Blah8

hrabbit

Take it easy, the people whose opinions really count - those who know you - won't change. We're all frustrated because of the internet and if we could rewrite our comments many of us would - especially if some of these posters had to say what they wanted to your face in person.

It's definitely true we all need to read our own posts and catch ourselves in a moment of irony, but does it really matter? I mean what goes on at your side of the computer, around you, among the people you know in real life - that's what matters. Not some comments that get archived into internet oblivion.

Thanks to everyone at Kotaku for years of continued service - you're one of my top links for a reason.

royaljester

"I mean he basically ends his comment with: If you read this and disagree then you are one of the stupid people I have been talking about"

Not true. My last comment was only toward the people who would probably want to viciously get in my ass for simply writing down what I wrote without even wondering if I could be right in the least bit. If you disagree, no problem, but to disagree and be one of those people mentioned; yeah, I got a problem with that. People who disagree don't jump down your throat to rip out your jugular, they tell you their opinion. I'm not even talking about them. My comments were retaliation for a lot of what I've wanted to say to the people who caused me to post this. I'm not going to lie to myself, and sweet talk people who won't even listen. How sad that you have to talk negatively in order for people to hear what you have to say.

"He makes some valid points but it's lost amongst all the insults he throws around, bad spelling and contradiction."

"I think KeroseneClimax's post is full of too many sweeping generalisations …."
"However even saying fatality isn't necessairly horribly wrong…."
"Im clearly in the minority here…"

Did you mean to make those spelling errors? I usually am with my Laptop at work, and I don't get the opportunity to proof read my work properly, so yeah, some glaring errors show up. Again, I never believed anyone would even read this, let alone it make comment of the week, and contradictions? I EVEN SAID I'M GUILTY AS WELL. I'm not perfect, and neither are you. I guess being so quick to point out my spelling errors, in front of everyone, isn't insulting neither.

"So we should act as though commentators can go against majority opinion but if we go against your opinion that makes us ignorant, full of hate, misinformed and stupid?"

Scroll Up.

"I just find it so annoying that he has decided his opinion is the right one. I mean I generally agree with his points but the way he has handled it is wrong."

When did I decide my opinion was the right one? The very thought of thinking an opinion is right will always be absurd.

"For someone asking that we respect each other he shows no respect for anyone else. Even the people he compliments he later says ''We all want to stroke our own egos before informing the uninformed.''

For a guy jumping down my throat in an effort to make me look foolish, I think I'm being very respectful. I always show respect for people who deserve it. Again, my comments were directed to those who perpetuate it, including myself. It's real easy to talk about a problem while not putting yourself in the front row. I don't talk about what needs to be fixed if I know I'm not broken as well. Try it out sometime…

"If someone wants to joke about crime or religion then what's wrong with that? Shouldn't you respect their opinion on it? Many great comedians joke about crime (Chris Rock) or religion (Monty Python). If they are joking about it in a way that is clearly just meant to be offensive then fine, ban them. However even saying fatality isn't necessairly horribly wrong. I mean think of the video where Bjork attacks a journalist. That is a crime, yet the videos of it with street fighter music or saying fatality are funny."

Hey, are you getting paid to be a jerk? No? Then why do it? I love George Carlin, but not me or anybody else is Carlin. People pay to hear his comedic outlook on serious events. Everyone knows he's saying what he says for laughs; they paid for it, but what about on Kotaku? You know it's a serious subject meant for intelligent discourse, but you act like a child. Sorry If I'm not hardcore enough to laugh at a Mortal Kombat joke after just hearing a Child was murdered by her sister, and her boyfriend. I'm so lame.

Kotaku posts those articles for a reason: To get a serious reaction from the gaming community, and to get rid of the clowns who make us all look bad. You think it's funny to laugh at a dead child, go to Youtube, where people laugh at anything. But it's obviously not wanted in those topics, so don't bring it. Why is that so crazy? There is a time and a place for everything man.

"I think KeroseneClimax's post is full of too many sweeping generalisations."

How ironic.

"Im clearly in the minority here but I just don't think posting a long self righteous rant equals a great post."

Then why did you do it? Isn't it a bit self-righteous to be intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others? At least I didn't exclude myself like you did. I don' believe I wrote anything special. Some people did. You make all the decisions from now on, oh shit, you can't. But the staff of Kotaku sure as hell can. I can't force beliefs.

If anything, my lone, crummy post, is proof enough we're not taking advantage of our ability to make the great people, who truly deserve recognition, get up there as well. We don't respect each other enough.

Now I'm going to continue watching Backdraft (1991). It's an awesome film.

KeroseneClimax

The interesting part of that comment is where you ask how "I" am going to enforce civility.
"I" have no way of enforcing anything, howevre"we" have more power than we give ourselves credit for.
I simply refuse to accept that we are all constrained by the lowest common denominator, if enough of us keep insisting on a certain level of civil behaviour, we will get eventually.
This is the way these people are.

Only as long as we allow them to be.

I think it was Kant or Mandeville who were focused on
this topic.

I feel it prudent to point out at this stage that I've been awake for more than twenty four hours, damned insomnia and all that.
With this in mind, you'll perhaps excuse me if my knowledge of Kant and Mandelson isn't as extensive as yours at this moment in time

(what I'm saying is that I'm too tired to Google )

Cruithne

I'm not saying this is what he thinks or flat out says - I think he must have been speaking out of frustration.
But take a look at his message and it's clear that's what he was implying, with a sometimes high and mighty tone that's understandable given his passion.

That doesn't make him totally right, and I think this was part of the frustration some people had, and due to the internet many anonymous people chose to escalate that to a new level.

Ever seen that Avenue Q skit, "Everyone's a little bit racist?" It's something so true but hard to admit.

I'm totally in favor of invite-only commenting and excluding people like me from posting. I've noticed that since Kotaku's allowed comments, that the tone of posts on the site has shifted in reaction and become overly defensive. There's no need to defend yourself on your own site - you guys are awesome and provide a free service for all. And maybe some things just should be left without comment, because the site's changed where a few insensitive comments escalate into defense of said comments.

royaljester

All I'll add is people don't seem to be respecting what he's saying right now.

He, and Kotaku, lost a lot of credibility in my eyes today.

TheLandmark

Thank you.

Jest

You CLEARLY don't get what's the issue. What's wrong with that? It's Kotaku, and Kotaku says it's wrong. Even if the almighty Chris Rock came on this site and made a joke along the lines you brayed about, he would be banned as well.

There is a reason why you are in the minority opinion.

Jest

Opinion is relative. It's easy to dismiss something as being sensationalist when it doesnt reflect our own views. The further away the other person's views are, the easier it becomes to do just that.

Mrmoo2002

It totally smacked of tabloid journalism to me.

TheLandmark

Spoony Bard

Witzbold

PlayingKarrde