@mistersneak: I understand that you are a parent and that you have your own views on what your children should see and hear. And you have all rights to it. Neither I nor the rest of America and its media is raising your kids, you are, so its your responsibility to watch what they are doing and if they happen to get into something, you need to explain to them your views on it and show them what's acceptable and what is not.

That all leads into my very heavy and, in all honesty, offended reaction to your comment on how we should not be surprised by this survey and your continued comments stating how others are trying to blame the history of our country's settlers, etc. There is a bit of truth to the Puritans having influenced our views on sexuality, but that goes back even further than them and I won't get into that rant here. But it all has to do with cause and effect and is very valid to this issue.

Also with your original comment at the top of this page is that you imply that you make sure your kids know that murder and violence are not encouraged at all and taught to be fantasy, yet because sex is something that is contextual that you don't want them to see anything that might skew their views of sex.

Well, what's wrong with explaining sex to them as well, explaining what is actually fantasy in situations like that? It was implied that you can talk to your kids and make sure they know the difference between fantasy and reality in relating to violence, but its almost implied that you can't do the same when it comes to sex. Though in all honesty its everywhere today, even in kids toys. And games, being the new media that they are, is blasted for anything remotely sexual. But because of this stigma against sexual content, it makes anything put in normally brash, comedic and something you really wouldn't want kids to see. Aside from the Mass Effect scene, which was done very well.

And then stating that violence isn't normal in our society is completely ignoring everything seen on the nightly news. We have our international wars, we have our national breakdowns and then local issues. A good deal of them involve murder on a more constant basis than most things of a serious sexual content.

Now, I am not stating that anything hardcore or even close to it should be viewed by children, just like some kids with violence, they can't separate fantasy from reality no matter the subject. But my issue comes from the fact that most people can talk all day about teaching kids violence is not to be done, but most people can't seem to talk to their kids about what's right and wrong when it comes to sex. Or what's accepted and what's not. It's one of the things in our society that's very taboo and then not, depending on the stage of life the person is in and the way the person grew up.

It makes for a very confused society on one simple subject is what it comes down to. And it just makes me sad that its not the other way around, and maybe we can have great depictions of sexual content instead of "Dirty dirty dirty..." as it always seems to come out in other media.

LizC

im not surprised by this one bit.

stupid country we live in.

and by that, i mean the vast majority of the people who live here.

joelface

I saw an advertisement on TV about a pay per view violent cage match thing, "90% sure someone will get injured." I think it's amazing people think that's more acceptable than sex or god forbid same sex couples.

Zunnoab

Besides, saying the Puritans founded the U.S. is as wide a simplification as all video games are violent. I'm just suggesting that there's a whole bigger world of reasons, and some get pretty darn sophisticated.

Slatz_Grobnik

SmokeyTab

I'm part of the group that thinks that kids are being overexposed to sex at too young an age (moreso than violence), but "graphically severed human head" is pretty vile and should have won, IMO.

GorbyGipper

ssh83

Yacjuman

I know this stuff and Canadians and Australians (for similar reasons), simply ignore what their previous generations have done. For the US, one reason for this is because if they want to right their wrongs they have to give up land and as we all know the US is *so* crowded so they can't give up land for the Indians.

The US was founded by prudes and while this doesn't affect everyone in the US it would be silly to think it has nothing to do with the anti-sexuality mentality that a lot of Christian parents all around the world have.

chiefpoopingpants

@RedFive: It's most likely the US given how traditional media outlets have panned out. Other than North America (yes, I'm including Canada just due to the fact that most of our media comes from the US), sexuality is less of a deal than violence. For example, I can open a UK/Europe video game magazine and find porn ads but not an army recruit ad which is the opposite of America.

@j4yx0r: Read your sentence again, while I think you didn't mean anything as offensive as a homophobic remark, it could be interpreted as such (killing two gay men).

RPGr

Ignorant folks live all over, not just in my country.

RedFive

But to be fair, I'd also be offended by two women kissing... Two ugly women.

Or, an ugly woman and a normal man.

Or even a hot woman and an ugly man.

So basically, from where I'm sitting, two men kissing == two ugly women kissing.

lordargent

RawSteelUT

~j

j4yx0r

kagebutsu

It seems that we're more frightened of depictions that imitate the act of creating life than ending it.

Must be all those people clamoring about overpopulation...

To be fair, pornography, especially certain avenues of it, can be a little unhealthy in excess - like, say, living on a diet based at the Hostess outlet store, or watching porn and wanking for half the day - probably not going to yield the healthiest results.

But some boobage or sexual content in mainstream gaming isn't going to corrupt the youth - all the other horrifying and ignored elements of the American societal model, marketing in particular, have done that already.

I guess the bottom line is that it's always more entertaining to point fingers at something else's lawn than wonder why yours is decaying.

sir_carrot

Zeouterlimits

America really has it's priorities backwards...

Overlord44

mistersneak

It really is a different view point though (from the usual American mindset) and has much deeper roots than just the current Bush/Iraq war admin. It's the same mindset that caused slavery, killing Indians for land, etc.

To me, a much more interesting follow-up poll would be "how much does media violence bother you?" I would bet that it would not rank high there.

The sex vs. violence thing is just to give it contrast and context.

Yeah, I found the recruitment ads for the army to be quite disturbing as well now that you mentioned it. The whole "like playing a video game" is quite disturbing if looked at with a deconstructing eye.

RPGr

daizyujin

darktorns

Akmed

daizyujin

Basically it's ok to stone to death women for having sex outside marriage and many people get away with it. Yes, I do realize the problem is more complexed than that but taken as a whole (and it is a little off topic but you'll see what I'm getting at) it's a problem of seeing people as "others".

Using some social deconstruction (I'm taking a bit of a leap here in logic steps and hope those that can follow this have at least a couple of years in social science courses at the University level) because of the act of arousal in any "pornography" (that's to be taken as the broadest definition of the word, not the usual money shot kind) we have a direct connection on it. Yet why do we not have the same connection with simulated violence?

Looking at the subject further, have you seen any pictures or participated in nudist beaches (I haven't participated but have seen pictures)? It's funny how regulars usually won't be aroused.

It's just that as we get used to something, we normalize what we see. Basically I'm submitting that the reason we are not moved by acts of violence (simulated or otherwise) is because we have been exposed to it so much already. We glorify it.

If this was one of my social science courses, the fact that the term "other" was used is telling. It's connected to the fact that we tune out suffering of others in general. Either by looking away at what makes us sick and ignoring it or being desensitized to it.

The fact that we perceive harm as "otherness" is what is most disturbing about our perception of violence. It's because we can't internalize it makes it impossible to empathize.

To illustrate my point let's look at another example. Which could you (talking to any reader) understand and empathize more with? A guy getting stoned to death in the middle east or a heart breaking story about love lost?

As much as any of us would hate to admit (including myself) I'd bet the latter.

We have it way too good here in NA (and in many other places in the world) to the point that to us, war and violence is in some far off lala land. Even 9/11 seems so long ago and we are already forgetting how to empathize.

It could be a number of reasons why but the fact remains, Americans (or any hard right wing fundies) in general are disturbed by sex more than violence and that is a major problem especially since we (that is a whole network of nations) are at war in the middle east. Soldiers are dying, civilians are dying and we use the excuse of it being like "another world" to detach ourselves from grim reality.

Yes I do realise that the poll is about video game (or media) sex vs. violence but it is an interesting peek at how US society views the offensive nature of each.

.... I'm pretty sure nobody read my mini essay on this.

RPGr

Sylar

bobtheduck

And I'm not sure it explains the whole obsession, but I remember looking at a study in college about parents vs. violence on television. The parents tended to allow more violence than sex because they felt that their children would be more likely to imitate the sex than the violence that they saw. Whether or not it was true, they thought that their kid was more likely to have imitate teen sex than severing a human head after having watched the two. And in that case, I rather agree.

I won't try to defend the homophobia, though. That's a whole different story.

EmTeeZ

chiefpoopingpants

That is why I follow Deism, which to everyone else may be considered a more liberal kind of religion. I believe, but not in any book that puts such strict restrictions on your life.

I mean all throughout history murder was seen as ok as compared to sexual relations. Heck the church ordered genocide multiple times during the days when the pop ruled the land rather than the king. (The kings were no exactly good cookies either but u know what I mean).

ninjikiran

So... what if a man puts a severed man's head on his penis? Is that... like, the ultimate in offensive video game content?

2NinjasTapedTogether

Sylar

mistersneak

hrabbit

hrabbit

That's a plausible reason for preferring violence over sex for your children to see.

Funny how it's the other way around where I'm from. One drop of blood and you can be sure to have it censored away. 'cause it's 'evil'.

InsaneGenius

Commander

Violence is not encouraged, it's simply not a part of our daily lives as sex is. To have violence in games is a part of the fantasy, which is made obvious by the fact that our children will not be murderers.
Our children most likely WILL have sex, though, and I believe it's a parent's right to decide how their child is exposed to it in order to develop appropriate views on sex.

This is not rocket science.

mistersneak

Seven Is Darker

So I asked her, what does it mean if they're gay?

Oh, she replied, that means a boy who loves another boy instead of a girl.

Seemed like a perfect answer to me.

She seemed fascinated by my apparent lack of knowledge in this area so she asked me

"Do you know what a lesbian is?"

True story.

She's twenty now and doesn't call boyband members gay anymore, nah, that's what she calls me.

Cruithne

miniboss1232

Horrific violence is ok though, go figure.

It's just when the South Park Movie came out way back when. Everytime the MPAA objected to something sexual, Matt and Trey added more violence which was completely overlooked. Sex bad, murder ok.

VixDiesel

Like I said though, I was raised in a Christian household and was brought up that sex is a great thing for married people. While I admit to watching and playing stuff with as much fanservice as possible at times (I'm currently eyeing Arcana Heart) I just can't picture a game I'd want to play that has sex depicted or two gay people kissing. Of course, I can't think of a super graphically violent game I enjoyed.

battra92

PsyGuy

I think the difference may even be greater, as beheadings and other graphic violence is usually strongly associated with negative emotions. That is, emotionally, we are discouraged from that behavior. Even as you said, you are repulsed by a beheading.
Whereas with sex and sex scenes, the emotions conveyed are almost always positive, emotionally encouraging the behavior.

mistersneak

mistersneak

I think the distinction between real and simulated acts is very, very important.

In a movie, sure, a run-of-the-mill sex scene will have more of an impact on the average viewer than a run-of-the-mill act of violence.

However, I just don't think that's the case with videos of beheadings. Simply because we know that the suffering is real. No matter how graphic and "realistic" a movie may be, we always know that it's just special effects.
The slight arousal I may get from sex in a movie or game is nothing compared to the physical repulsion I felt watching the first few seconds of a beheading video, which I literally couldn't watch to the end. The physical repulsion was incredibly more intense than any arousal I will ever feel watching two people getting it on in a movie or videogame.

Why is simulated sex more effective than simulated violence? It probably comes down to the fact that the latter is usually so unrealistic, over-the-top and, especially, alien to our everyday lives that it's very easy to detach ourselves from it.
Simulated sex, however, is usually close enough to people's individual experiences that it appears more "real". It's easier to relate to, easier to project your fantasies on. Sexual desire and release is, thankfully, more familiar to us than killing.

Antiterra

Wesker

Murder, that is extreme graphic violence, is never appropriate. We will never ever encourage our children to violently dismember people. Rather, all instances of graphic violence in entertainment are taught to be "fantasy", never to be mimicked or repeated.

However sex *is* appropriate in context. As a father I do not want my children exposed to inappropriate contexts of sex. I feel that this can distort their views and behaviors on what is appropriate sexual behavior. And young exposure to sex can set a precedence for what they view as "normal", and they will seek to act that out when it comes time for them to become sexually active.

On the other hand, "normal" killing does not exist for the vast majority of us, therefore being influenced by it will not have a productive real-world effect on the children.

To be honest, I'm shocked at how many commentators are baffled by this poll. It has nothing to do with what we feel is more appropriate behavior in society, it has everything with what we want our children to be learning from it in a practical sense.

mistersneak

Second.

Scruffy_the_Janitor

excaleranth

aboutblank77

ShirtGuyDom

RPGr

(but hey, it's still fine, as long as they're both havong fun)

Cruithne

Isn't that the truth.

dead_red_eyes

Yeah I can't count all the times I've caught my 14 year old in his room tearing his classmate's head off, ripping the spine out of his body, because he played Mortal Kombat 2.

Serephimo

I myself find that quite disturbing especially considering the beheadding vidoes of hostages in the Middle East.

Don't you find that disturbing? That you are much more detached to pain and suffering than you are to acts of procreation?

RPGr

Just a reminder for parents:
Having sex: Legal and necessary for the species survival
Homosexual Kiss: Legal
Beating someone's face to death: many years of prison

Shteve

Yes, exactly. Apparently the people in these comments get aroused to violence when they see it as often as they get sexually aroused when they see two attractive people having sex.

Serephimo

Wyld

And I was talking about the opinion of the people who took the survey. People who want the best for their family should not be mocked for it. Americans should not be mocked for wanting the best for their family. That was my entire point and I think I made it very well.

There's clearly a "best" choice for families in general. All the other choices are worse than that. And while your desires are not entirely under your control, to a large degree, your behavior is. It's good to encourage good choices.

Kohath

Wired is a very liberal magazine. It has a long history of condeming violence and trying to demystify sex. In general the staff are a bunch of ex-hippies (at least in philosophy) and they frequently show this bias in their articles. It's part of the nature of the magazine.

While I understand that without this knowledge it may seem like Ashcraft is making an unreasonable conclusion here, with the culture of the magazine and Ashcraft's close working relationship with the staff (he and Cresent are their Japanese correspondence), I would think that the assumption holds true (on a balance of probabilities it would).

RPGr

People can play violent video games and have no desire to commit real life violence. I can shoot an imp with a shotgun and not have the slightest desire to shoot people in real life. I just like the game mechanics of firing at moving targets.

If, however, I see two sexually attractive people having sex, I will be likely be sexually aroused, meaning I will want to participate in sex.

When parents find sex "offensive" it's not because they think that having sex is worse than cutting someone's head off. It's because they know sex is a much more rooted in human nature than bloody carnage is. They want their children to grow up healthy and well-balanced with regards to sex, and in accordance with their values and traditions. They don't worry about their kids becoming murderers because they play Mortal Kombat. People saying "Americans are so stupid" are just ignorant snobs.

Serephimo

Sex, on the other hand, isn't that far out there. It's far more "normal". It's far more likely to affect behavior. Can't speak for anybody else, but a good sex scene is always a slight turn-on to me.

(I'd also argue that, at least for me, seeing violence doesn't make me any more violent, if anything, the opposite. Seeing a good sex scene, however, does turn me on...)

GnatB

People can play violent video games and have no desire to commit real life violence. I can shoot an imp with a shotgun and not have the slightest desire to shoot people in real life. I just like the game mechanics of firing at moving targets.

If, however, I see two sexually attractive people having sex, I will be likely be sexually aroused, meaning I will want to participate in sex.

When parents find sex "offensive" it's not because they think that having sex is worse than cutting someone's head off. It's because they know sex is a much more rooted in human nature than bloody carnage is. They want their children to grow up healthy and well-balanced with regards to sex, and in accordance with their values and traditions. They don't worry about their kids becoming murderers because they play Mortal Kombat. And you all must know this as I constantly see people like Thompson being criticized for his unrealistic warnings.

People saying "Americans are so stupid" are just ignorant snobs.

Serephimo

ffmusicdj

Bam345

crim

It's like i'm at digg or something.

NoBullet

I'm sorry Brian. For me, it is quite obvious that parents don't want their kids watching sex scenes or extreme violence scenes. They don't want ANY of those topics being spoon fed to them. You are a parent, you should know better. This is the same as a poll with the brilliant title "Which close family member would you rather lose in a plane accident?"

SirM

xbulletholes

kingross

zerokoolpsx

Bam345

Bam345

RPGr

djniv

Sir_Crocidile

no seriously.... that's messed up.

XWonka

Did Fox News buy out Kotaku?

NoBullet

RPGr

Those wacky American parents. They don't want their teenagers to have babies. What are they thinking?

Why wouldn't a mom want her teenagers to get pregnant? Does she want her grandchildren to have both a mom AND a dad and grow up in a middle-class home? That's crazy.

And the gayness? Why wouldn't a mom want her son to be gay? Since when does anyone want an extended family with grandchildren?

Next we'll find out that parents don't want their sons and daughters to shoot up heroin or be porn stars. What's up with these prudish Americans anyway?

The worst offense is that third paragraph, where you imply that if a mom lets her son watch men kissing on television, she "wants him to be gay".

By the way, there's a single word for what you were attempting to get at with that rather long-winded description. It's called a strawman. And I wasn't doing that. You clearly said what you said, and it's what I was responding to.

Zeliard

Mizlet

I know it's difficult to understand but you have to realize that the more "educated" we become, the more "egocentric" we are as well. Things that NEED to be done we need immigrants for because it's "below my education standards".

This is the problem with NA in general. We see, as a society, that skilled trades or even "things we need to live" as being lower on the status symbol.

In purely logical terms, what's more important? The ability to flush my toilet or the ability to surf the 'net?

I hope the answer is obvious but for some reason from a social standpoint it is reversed.

Part of the problem with consumerist culture is that it is not sustainable, yet our education system and values in NA do not represent this reality at all.

RPGr

Don't forget, they were VIOLENT Puritans.

Don't forget, Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote FICTION and gave the Puritans a bit of a bad name and that the Scarlet Letter has no more truth of Puritanism in it than there is plot in Galaga.

Sex in Puritan life seems bad but when you compare it to the Catholic and Episcopal notion at the time of sex being dirty even inside of marriage. Puritans were all about having sex. Just so long as you were married.

And honestly, I was raised by pretty conservative parents. If I got anything about sex from them it was once you're married and found the one then go forth and do whatever you bboth want with each other. Which, frankly, isn't a bad thing to tell kids.

Puritans weren't exceptionally violent either. Mostly Nathaniel Hawthorne and his "I hate my ancestors" books did that too.

Sources for this post can be found here: [pewforum.org]

battra92

Carbs2k

Kohath

No one said they believed watching something led to behavior. Certainly not me.

Congrats on winning your imaginary argument with the person you imagined said some stuff that was easy to refute though. It may be good practice for a time when someone does make those arguments someday.

You are my imaginary argument hero of the day.

Kohath

America is an odd culture, indeed. This is coming from a born and bred, flag waving, God fearing American.

I also live in Massachusetts which is one of the most liberal places in the country this side of San Francisco and people here can go from being extremely liberal to being downright conservative when it comes to family values.

I see parents taking their kids to R-Rated movies or getting them the newest Harry Potter book or Halo 3 or whatever. Yet on the other hand when a local town tried to have topless dancers you would've thought it was 1920 here as the people came out in full force to oppose it.

For the record, I wasn't for it but then also if/when I have kids I won't be buying them violent games or taking them to R Rated movies.

battra92

When a man gets married and swears fidelity to his wife, when he becomes a father, he chooses that life because he thinks it will make him happy, and because he wants to make his family happy. Happiness, no matter how modest a strand of it, is usually (part of) the motivation.
And in choosing married life, he also takes up responsabilities and obligations that he indeed has a duty to uphold, since they affect not only his well-being, but that of others.
If he then sleeps around and neglects his wife and children, then I agree with you that there's something deeply wrong.

But such actions cannot, in any way, be compared to a young man simply finding out that he is gay. Contrary to marriage and having children, homosexuality isn't a choice.
A gay man shouldn't have to pretend he's straight, get married to a nice girl and have children, all because some twisted view of morality (and I insist on "twisted") tells him that homosexuality is evil.

Again, "goodness" and happiness are not mutually exclusive. Believe it or not, striving for personal peace of mind doesn't mean pissing all over everybody else's - and I strongly doubt you can find lasting serenity that way, too.

Let's see: I'm straight but I'm not married, I probably never will be, and while I love children, I don't want to have any of my own because I hate the idea of passing my faulty genes to them, and I don't trust myself to ever be good enough a parent.
Does that make me a bad child because I won't give grandchildren to my parents? Wouldn't it be better for them, in that case, if I were gay, living in a committed relationship and raising an adopted child? Wouldn't that be better than being the socially-inadequate, self-destructive, emotionally-crippled and probably not-too-psychologically-balanced straight person prone to immoderate flirtations with hyphenated phrases that I am now? But hey, at least I'm not gay, I'm sure my parents are relieved.

Antiterra

trigger2

You are right that the Protestan ethos is a reason, but puritans are/were protestants too.

zoesch

omnibot2000XL

@Brian Ashcraft: I've been wondering, is Japan more like America where sex is worse than violence or more like Europe?

Bam345

SSJPabs

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but teenagers are horny. They have sex. A lot of sex. They will have sex whether or not their parents turned the TV off when a non-graphic sex scene came on.

In fact, there have been numerous studies that show that teens are probably more likely to have sex at a younger age the more they are sheltered from it, because they haven't been exposed to any of it and will naturally be more curious and adventurous. Sex becomes the Forbidden Fruit. Call it the Catholic schoolgirl syndrome.

It's also utterly embarrassing that you honestly think a kid could somehow "become" gay if he watches two guys kiss on television. What are you, some kind of a fucking retard?

Zeliard

I guess I'm saying that demonstrating your understanding by telling everyone is a poor substitute for actually doing anything. (This isn't aimed at you. It's a pet peeve of mine. People want to sound smarter than the room. But their talk is to elevate themselves. When it comes time to stand up to solve a problem, they're at home watching the Discovery Channel looking for their next factoid to use to impress people. Again, that's not aimed at you. I don't know anything about you.)

And it doesn't change the rules of society. Even if the rules are based on a mistake, it may still be ultimately wise to follow them. That is true in this case.

Adding more teenagers having children and more single-parent households isn't going to reverse the "extended childhood" phenomenon. If anything, it makes it worse.

Kohath

daizyujin

Uh-Oh Spaghetti-Oh's

(Yeah, that was awful)

battra92

Im glad these people dont live in england because theres a big gay culture there. I mean, heck, just look at the show Torchwood. The current two season had more sex and gay innuendos/actual "almost" gay sex scenes than I've ever seen in a US tv show on cable.

mad_hatter_md01

Jimbo4

RPGr

Gray665

Dogs and other animals do. People have a choice. People are better than dogs and other animals.

And no one said anyone should be "sheltered" from anything, so I'm not sure why you are asking me your question.

Kohath

Does this mean we can start dropping the F-bomb in games now? Loading dock dialog just doesn't seem realistic without it.

seishino

Tiger-Fever

I'm not agreeing that exposure to images in games causes any kind of behavior. I object to mocking the people who took the survey and Americans in general. People want the best thing for their family and ought not to be mocked for it.

Also, the old sex vs. violence conversation is extremely silly and the "America sux, Europe pwns" nonsense is tiresome. I like to take the American side on things.

Kohath

Tiger-Fever

I wonder if anyone actually bothered reading the fact that this poll:

1. Is inaccurate and only allowed ONE option, therefore it was never intended as a portrayal of scale in what Americans consider offensive.

2. It's an online poll for pete's sake, since when were those an accurate enough way to judge an entire population.

3. Generalities, yes there are many conservative Americans and they traditionally hold power politically. But I can tell you that most Americans are indeed secular, it is just the Religious Right movement feels they have a holy cause and are far more active politically while the more liberal/progressive tend not to take such action.

If literally every American took interests in politics I would assure you the majority would be far more tolerate of sex.

4. The Janet Jackson scandal hardly represented the feelings of America, it was both our media and your media blowing it out of proportion. Do you really think even near half of Americans were offended?

@Strange Bedfellows:

"They don't give a shit about racism and stereotypes or severed heads and graphic wanton, glorified violence and crime. But a little bump & grind and its off with their heads, how appropriate!"

What?

Many Americans do care about racism and stereotypes, once again stop with the generalizations. Your bigotry is suffocating.

As if your country doesn't have any racial issues or stereotypes.

Mikazukinoyaiba

Zeliard

Does a 10-year-old kid want his dad to have a fun, satisfying sex life, or does he want his dad to come home to his mom every night so they can be a family?

Kohath

You are correct about the extended childhood. But that understanding is not very useful.

"It's like that because society is not what it should be." No matter how true that is, it doesn't really change anything or help anyone.

Kohath

I mean honestly I dont think violence in games can be connected to real life as strongly as sex in games can. (detective shows about serial killers can inform you... not that i watch them or anything.. besides Dexter, that rocks)

I mean if it was say a movie things would be different but in a game unless your child is slightly psychotic (or very young) its understandable.

I'd probably agree with the poll if youa sked me to rank in order of what I found more offensive.

SaanZ

They know people in single-parent households though.

Kohath

Jesus did teach against sexual immorality, but he also taught against violence (e.g., "turn the other cheek," "do to others what you would have them do to you"). Jesus taught that we should love everyone regardless of their background or behavior. Unfortunately, a lot of people who claim to be Christians seem to ignore that.

DaFron

Guess what? My friend works as a butcher and he makes more money than I do despite me having a "fancy schamncy" University degree and him not. Likewise (although in the US right now because of the housing bust) a carpenter or plumber in Canada makes more money than me (I'm an IT guy).

The problem is all in perception and not reality. There are plenty of ways to make a living that pays equal or more than a fancy degree can get you. Only, it's sold to us that there isn't. Instead we are fed the "if you don't go to University/College you're gonna be a garbageman for the rest of your life instead of being a doctor".
In essence they compare the two extremes. Even then, depending on the system, a garbageman or bus driver can make more than me.

Basically it's the greatest lie of higher education. The reality and truth is that most of us, well "educated" or not tend to fall in the middle and even out in the long run.

@Kavatar: Good try but that's not the only article I stated some such (you won't find it because i was agreeing with someone else) and not the one I had in mind. Sorry but you failed.

RPGr

I'm not sure what's more weird, the fact that you think that any of these situations could be caused by exposure to scenes in video games or the fact that you seem to be perfectly OK with teenagers growing up to perform gruesome decaptitations.

phicaluk

Two men cornholing, now that's offensive to me. God damn you, internet and your misguided links.

I'm all for the boobs though.

Tyber_Zann

Tei

And please realise that hiding away the issue of sex as though it were something shameful or offensive is much more damaging in terms of unwanted pregnancies, STDs, sexual disorders, etc. than having an open approach to it.

"Why wouldn't a mom want her son to be gay?" Shouldn't a mother's prime concern be the happiness of her child, no matter what sexual preference said happiness entails?

Antiterra

meltyman

Bleentastic sees bandwagon and jumps

Kavatar

PHILOSOPHER541

And are you saying higher education ISN'T actually needed/necessary? Because your comment can be read several ways.

SSJPabs

BjLive45

RPGr

very lame, dude.

DrFresh

That actually makes me feel pretty good about this country.

SSJPabs

Go back to playing Halo on XBox Live where you can call people "fags" as much as you want while shooting them.

SirCletus

/YMMV?

DrFresh

SirCletus

Heyyou27

Why wouldn't a mom want her teenagers to get pregnant? Does she want her grandchildren to have both a mom AND a dad and grow up in a middle-class home? That's crazy.

And the gayness? Why wouldn't a mom want her son to be gay? Since when does anyone want an extended family with grandchildren?

Next we'll find out that parents don't want their sons and daughters to shoot up heroin or be porn stars. What's up with these prudish Americans anyway?

Kohath

Compare that to the "so-called" better "thinking" we have now in which divorce is more likely to happen than a stable lifelong marriage. We are extending childhood way too long. Instead of childhood being from birth to 18, we have it as birth to 30 years old. Not that there is much choice due to the fact that a BA is now the equivalent of a HS diploma back in the day. With studies showing that a human's personality developing until about 27 but with childhood lasting way into 30 (due to student loans and such), there could be a conclusion drawn from that that could mean people are not given time to grow into an adult mindset if they are still in childhood mode till long after the brain and personality has been solidified.

I guess what I'm trying to say simply is that the way society is set-up now, there is likely to be more failure than not (in human interaction and relationships).

RPGr

The blow jobs take a little longer.

Cruithne

Maybe they should've said 'two men making out' :P

N-Bomb

Benjo