Bisonfur

QGR

brandonf

This shit is really getting old in thist post, losing track of people who use terms similart to "acting white".

brandonf

Funny thing that, cause in the 1930s pointing that would be considered "explicitly pointing out it is racism by enforcing your view on others when people may not even see things that way"

brandonf

brandonf

brandonf

brandonf

You have a SHIT load of other white characters in this game and every other that do not act in the way you pretend offends you. Reverse the role comepletely man, stop half assing it.

brandonf

brandonf

Making people aware of it allows them to see what sort of stereo types they themselves where buying into and didn't even realize it. It's important.

brandonf

brandonf

freespeech

Seriously though, I can relate to so much that everyone has said both for and against the original article. I am a black gamer who isn't "black enough", has a japanese girlfriend and would love to see more meaningful minority characters. That being said, it's weird that people keep bringing up the idea that if a character in some of these games didn't act stereotypically black, other blacks would complain and say he doesn't act "black enough" WHO CARES. Odds are, the ones complaining about video game characters, and more generally people in our society not acting black enough are the ones that wholeheartedly accept and embrace all the negative stereotypes we know and have to endure in this nation. Yes racism exists, and yeah there are plenty of stereotypes that are MORE than negative at times, and if the only fear of making a more realistic character that's black is the uproar of crowds of Lil' Wayne and Pacman Jones wannbes, fuck 'em. Do i care that the homey down the street hittin' up that madden may not relate to Eli Vance? HELL NO. No, all black characters in games have to be heroes with perfect diction and an impeccable taste for fine wine and classical music, but i'll be damned if they all still need to be one comment away from robbing a korean convenience store to pay for some new rims. And as far as people talking about stereotypes not really meaning anything, the first thing my girlfriend mentioned when we started talking was that i didn't act like a "normal black guy". Her and all the friends that i've met all seem to think that the horrible stereotype IS the norm because of the ignorant ass trash that walk the street, cut records, and put on said minstrel shows for fame...that's all they really get in Japan. I'd imagine that's why any black characters in japanese games are typically complete tools, so don't think stereotypes (and yes, they're usually very much based on a terrible reality) do no harm.

RoninLaw

That's because they didn't.

Jac21

Nothing_Original

Except for the fact in Unreal 1 the white guys looked like crackheads and teh black guy was still the stereotype.

Except for the fact in UT they have white people of all shapes and sizes but again only a stereotypical black man.

chiefpoopingpants

NeoStarr

thelastslice

Obviously your opinion differs.

So.... because I disagree I'm an idiot? Intelligent argument!

SSJPabs

Trencher

The problem is when the black guy is just a tacked on character that doesn't really add to the story and is just there to spit out stereotypical catch phrases every now and then. That's kinda the equivalent of having a Jewish character in a game that carries around a bag of gold and constantly complains about how all the weapon upgrades are too expensive.

But I will say that some companies do 'get it' and put multi ethnic characters in a game the right way. Just look at condemned 2, the only person you really trust in the game is Rosa, a black woman who works at the police station. Her character is written as a smart forensic investigator. The fact that she just happens to be black has nothing to do with nothing, which is the way it should be.

Sam_Lowry

N bombs being dropped left and right, horribly improper English, glorification of gang/rap culture. People say such behavior doesn't exist but all you have to do is take a look around to see thats not true. Thats the depressing part.

These stereotypes exist because you have a lot of people who are too ignorant to do away with them and in fact, promote them and put them in a positive light.

sketch9919

slice156

Three women and two black people in gears..

Marcus Fenix
Dominic Santiago
Augustus Cole
Damon Baird
Minh Young Kim
Carmine

Anya Stroud
Victor Hoffman
Rojas
Jack

if three of those were women, and two were black (for argument, one black female)

people would still argue that it had the Hispanic man in there, AND the Eastern guy.

That would leave three white men, 1 Black woman, 2 white women, an Asian guy, a Hispanic guy and a robot.

and of course the Marcus hating Colonel could NOT have been played by a black person or any other race than white, or else people would cry racism

so in the Delta Squad, you have Marcus (black) Domenic (Hispanic, Woman?) Cole (black) and the stereo typical whining white character Damon Baird (possibly a woman)

would it be believable, maybe - but not likely.
would it be the same, noooooo.

a lot of games does not feature Indian or Chinese, because those are not the biggest demographic. and again the programmers are mostly white (I believe), and programming for the western world and the Japanese market.

Assassin's Creed featured middle eastern societies, stereo typical ones, but somewhat believable

Enyeez

invisiblewok

invisiblewok

well, you can't please everyone, and the majority of the players and programmers are white (I'd think)

if he wasn't in there, there would be a problem, if he was white there would be a problem, if there wasn't a woman in there, there would be a problem.

The Gears of War setting is not on earth, so in theory there could be all black people, OR white.
but if they do that, then they will never hear the end of it, it has to be similar to our "situation", so a black man had to make an appearance, even if just a token one.

I'm white and European, here we don't have the same percentage of people with African family ties.

The black people we see on American television are often stereotypical like that.

IF they would have made the game with 50/50 (men and women as well as blacks and whites) everything would be equal but less believable.

I would probably not be able to identify a world like that, because it's just not what I'm seeing here.

I don't get people who look for this in games.

I respect that people can find the character dumb and get upset by the way they act (if stereotypical etc) but was I liking all the white characters.. no.

I am probably the average gamer, and the game appeals to me, in that sense Epic did a good job, even if some of the characters were a miss.

speaking of Cole, to me, he wasn't that unbelievable, a bigger Will Smith with just as clever dialog and over the top self esteem, not entirely unreal to me.

again, you can't please everyone.

Enyeez

Phester

It doesn't matter if I play a game with a black character dying, or the main is a black guy or w/e. As long as I get to shoot someone or run someone over, I'm set. I don't give a crap about the racial crap.

How about instead of pointing the finger saying everyone's racist. look at yourself and think.... If we keep bringing up racism, it's just going to stay in everyone's head 'till the end of time.

Screw that. just drop it. leave it a-freaking-lone. shit.

MySoul7

Damn you Jax damn you. you started all this madness!!!!!!!!!!!............I think? who was the first generic black video game character (cheezy one liners and all)?

MURDERFACE

Dynosaulo

If i say "hey! you've ot green eyes!" you could call me racist? I guess not. So why people tend to say its racism if i say "hey! you're black!"? Instead of calling me racist, people should say "thanks!"

Racism won't stop existing untill people STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

Dynosaulo

ReVivAL

As stated earlier you all are just adding to the problem by pretending there is one. My bet is most of you that were offended by this stereotype are white. In which case you have no room to be offended. (Im not trying to be mean I am just saying)Just because I turn on the T.V and see a the stereotype of a redneck doesn't meen I get offended. I laugh. Does that make me racist? My white girlfriend would suggest otherwise.

Do I think racism is still a problem? Maybe a little but I don't encounter it everytime I walk out the door. WE (black people) have put this stereotype on ourselves. Stop creating issues out of nothing.

Great now Epic is going to take Cole out of Gears 2 or something.... I liked him too.

ReVivAL

iwanttobeasleep

daklog

But in the end it is the same thing, stereotyping a group based on perseved physical and/or intellectual expectations that are both offensive and unrealistic.

EmeraldDragon

Stueymon

invisiblewok

Toprem

Toprem

Yeah, I thought it was kinda racist just by his name alone, but I didn't give a shit since it was funny.

Toprem

I don't think the game-makers were attempting to actively portray our darker skinned brothers in a demeaning way. I think they were just a bit lazy in the character design department, and it was just easier to mash together some stereotypes and call it a personality.

Same is true for main character Marcus. We're all used to seeing big, beefy white dudes who love them some killin' as the main characters in action games, so why rock the boat? Again, it's just easier to copy and paste character attributes that we're all familiar and comfortable with.

SquirrelPhister

relic1980

Man, every time I think "maybe South Park isn't so bad" someone points out something that makes me glad I avoid it whenever possible.

SSJPabs

Does Not Equal (ダズノット)

EmeraldDragon

Either/or.

JustThisGuy

Jac21

Jesus.

JustThisGuy

cybereal

Does Not Equal (ダズノット)

relic1980

What's this "African American" shit? The characters you spoke about are "Black" characters. What makes you so sure they are "American"?

It seems you have your own prejudices going on.

Rotmm

And that is why I stated it was offensive to me, not to all black people.

As for why Terry Tate took the role, you can look at any number of actors that take stereotypical or offensive roles and ask the same question. A paycheck? It didn't bother them? Who knows, as it was up to them. But Stepin Fetchit existed whether people want to acknowledge that or not.

But, at this is not directed at you as a slight, never presume how a person of any oppressed race feels when they say something is racially insensitive or offensive. Apathy is not the path to healing.

DARTH_TIGRIS

It's like people getting angry at Borat for making anti-semitic jokes. You can do it all day, but anyone with common sense will just shake their head and ignore you.

KaneRobot

Samos42

Learn to read. The articles is saying that almost every black character in videogames still has them talk with "urban super slang". Not really racists but after awhile you start to wonder. Would you really want to see every asian video game character talk like Mrs. Swan? Or evey white guy talking like Bill Gates?

At some point it becomes annoying and lame that almost every dev feels the need to make black characters like they all came from the hard ghettos with a masters degree in ebonics.

I mean, who really wants to create a story that has a black guy without that urban 'tude? That wouldn't compliment or contribute to any story, right?

Onegai

Onegai

And I thought that this character was to make fun of the American football/wrestling types. You know the type that always refers to himself in the 3rd person and usually has some badass nickname.
BTW, Cole Train was my, and my friends, favorite character. We loved the fact that he was owning the locust with a pistol when you first meet him, that his biceps were almost bigger than his torso (which was pretty big as well) and that he kept on coming with funny lines and calling himself the Cole train. It relieves a lot of tension when you're playing on the insane difficulty to have something that you can joke about.

Spiderbait

i swear i try not to be racist, but if i'm getting accused of it, i'm half tempted to sue the next person that calls me "cracker" since i'm not legally able to respond to that without being the one sued.

GrimCW

Does Not Equal (ダズノット)

GrimCW

smuckers is good

Haha. I'm glad that someone got a kick out of that. Those videos brought me waaayyyy back. I remember watching Fresh Prince when I was little.

dead_red_eyes

Parsifal

Did we learn nothing from the overly politically-correct 1990s? Does every character in everything ever have to comply to the culture police's version of what's racist and what's not?

Here's a quick note for game developers, based upon this "controversy", the Resident Evil "controversy", and the Far Cry 2 "controversy". You can't have black people in a game without it being racist unless it's Madden or NBA Live.

And to top it off, all the other characters in the game are the same cookie-cutter bullshit tough guy wannabes. It's everyone in GoW, not just Cole Train.

I mean, come on. I'd like to think our culture has progressed to the point that this shit isn't always under the microscope.

Strangelove

Does Not Equal (ダズノット)

SuperMaxZero

devilhunterx

devilhunterx

relic1980

Oh, none taken brother. In responding to what you said, I kinda went down a different path so as to not have two posts within a short time frame.

But, there's nothing about what you said that I thought was a shot at me or what I said. And, there's nothing in what I said that was a shot at you or what you said. So, it's all good :)

J

FranksnBeans

heydanbud

I'm pretty sure someone has said this before, or maybe my opinion is a mix of what people have said, but I think that while people need to stop automatically jumping at things that are the least bit stereotypical and screaming 'THAT'S RACIST!!', the industry needs to evolve as far as character development in games like this go. Sure, it's easy for the majority to identify with stereotypical characters like the guys in GoW, but if the characters were more rounded with real personalities and backstories instead of just filling in standard plot positions, there'd be no reason for an outcry like this.

/my two and a half cents

Aleandre

great black characters in gaming?

Raven from Tekken

Kate Allen from F-Zero GX

Vanessa from VF5 (but sega sucks for making her lighter than VF4 and with the dumb ass white hair)

Zasalamel from Soul Caliber 3

Michael Edwards from Eternal Darkness

Moby from SSX

Tara Hunter from 1080 Snowboarding: Avalanche

can't think of many others.
remember, this is a list of GOOD black characters.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

VeritasVierge

mikeko10

Well, the "zombies" in RE 5 arent African American black, they're Haitian(or was it African?). Either way, it's different.

That said, I dont see what the big deal is. For example, just about every game that has a hispanic in it has the speaking with either Mexican, Cuban, or Puerto Rican accents/dialects. There's hundreds of different Spanish-speaking contries, all with their differences. I dont remember people crying about the "Spaniards" in RE4 sounding like Mexicans.

dgonchild

Everybody else needs to just open their minds, READ the original article and THINK before they say anything else. That or just shut the hell up. Some of you (and I won't mention any names) have no idea how ignorant and thus unintentionally racist you are coming off as in this topic. If you're aren't black, don't you dare presume to think you know how someone black (note not Al Sharpton) feels about these things or what they may or may not experience. Odds are that you'll never know or understand. You are likely the type that if you worked as a game developer, would be no better than the guys creating these stereotypes. Just shut up!

VeritasVierge

pABSO

There was only Marcus, Dom, Baird, Cole, Hoffman, Carmine, Kim, the Intel Lady, the Stranded, (whose leader was more of a stereotype anyway), and pale filthy Locust maneaters. Plus the occasional COG trooper, who all wear helmets.

Besides, Cole is great because he's so enthusiastic and spirited! He fits the game.

"Man, don't you ever get tired?"
"Hell to the No!"

WracknRuin

Gears of War...great action...terrible character development...typical characters born from Epic's lack of skill at creating good characters. Stereotypes are the result.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Gangsta-Grillz

The Cole Train may fall in with certain stereotypes but for the most part he's a *positive* stereotype.
I mean, did anyone dislike him?
For that matter, did anyone not hate that fucker Baird?

KraZe

Kayeliminal Antithesis

ibelli

alby13

The majority of all Hip-Hop music isn't bought by black people. It's bought by white people. White people have been gorging themselves on what they perceive as black culture since the old jazz days.

When Hip-Hop is finished and Black people come up with something else I'm sure white people will be there to use it to piss of their parents. :)

214w

I didn't even think one thing about it until it was mentioned in this article.

alby13

How should you take them? are you being sarcastic? Doesnt matter I guess, cause ya wont take the time to notice it.

But if ya make the effort,I would sum it up to Ironic Comedy.

Beyene

rawg

If it was patently offensive to black people, why did Terry Tate do the voice work? Why didn't he say: "You know what? This shit is racist and I'm damn-well offended you had the nerve to want me to read this shit?" Because, offensiveness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Another life lesson: Don't refer, in any way, to black guys in the deep South as "boy". Having moved from NO to southern MS, I learned that. A black friend of mine had just climbed to the top of school's flagpole and when he got down, I said "Boy, you must be crazy for doing that!" (Which is, verbatim, what I would have told ANY friend having done the same thing.) He got upset with me. Not because he had been subjected to that form of racism, but, as he later told me, because of his father's life experiences and his father telling him "Don't you ever let a white person call you 'boy'!"

So, while that particular comment was not particularly offensive to people of my generation, it certainly was to the generation before. So, you can walk around looking for something to fight about, or you can take things as they are intended to be received. Afterall, I don't even think Emerson, I mean hegey, thinks Epic set out to offend.

It's all in the: (a) intention upon delivery and (b) reception.

J

FranksnBeans

Jaid

necrotoxin

DARTH_TIGRIS

I just think Cole is annoying as shit, is all.

Garro

This also being my first venture onto MTV's site, I saw that "black professionals in gaming" gets their own portal. Why? Why is it that because they're professionals, but black, they get their own portal? I don't see a "French/French-Canadian professionals in gaming" portal for Ubisoft or Infogrames? Because one group is larger, more recognizable, or more accepted than the other? I see that as racism more than I see poorly written stereotypes as racism. It's these things that reinforce why discussions like these are held and why 超外人 is partially correct. It can't just be said that being aware of racism makes it racist. It's being aware that the lines that separate our cultures are drawn by ourselves and we can either choose to draw until our markers are worn away to nubs or take the eraser and start blurring the lines. Stereotypes are just reinforcements of an exaggerations of cultures we don't understand and are only told of from experience. And if we fear what is different, we often put negative connotation on it to protect ourselves. If we don't fear what is different, but appreciate it, we can throw away our slurs and our jokes and just be people. If we start to teach our kids that the lines don't exist, we can all just pick up a controller and have fun.

My friends and I are all from different cultures and we recognize that, and if they make a joke that I'm smart because I'm (half)Asian, or my friend drinks a lot because he's Irish, we draw the lines that they're jokes and not offensive. It's just too bad not everyone has our cool pens. That's not being oblivious to racism. It's just not defining it at all. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.

Shalashaska

Brother, I agree 100%. But, the issue on the table is not in games in general, but in this particular game. And, in this particular game, Cole is no more offensive than any other character.

I grew up in inner-city New Orleans and know exactly of which you speak. When I was a young kid, our neighbors were from just about every country you can think - the UK, Cuba, Jamaca, Holland, Vietnam, China, etc. Difference was everywhere. But, back then at least, nobody cared; everybody knew everybody else's mom and dad and if you did something stupid, they'd know before you got home. By the time I was in high school, that all changed.

At that point, if you were black, maybe you were too light to "fit in" with some groups. Or, maybe you were too dark. If you were Hispanic, maybe you were Puerto Rican and not Mexican and, therefore, weren't welcome in that group. Somewhere, somehow, it changed. And, it was not vast white conspiracy to change it - it was those particular groups decided who could hang and would could not and then complained about how THEY have been separated from the rest of "us".

Being olive skinned due to my dad, I've had countless latinos come up to me and the first thing they'd ask is what my hispanic heritage was. Upon learning that I wasn't one of "them", they'd go the other way. Afterall, why would they want to hang with an American Indian/Jew?

So, one harsh reality that few tend to tackle is that alot of the societal segregation is the making of none other than those segregated. And the "funny" thing is: those who would complain the loudest have the least about which to complain. Now, those minorities who grew up in the '50's and '60's in this country would be well within their rights to scream from the rooftops about what they've endured. But, for whatever reason, they typically don't.

I'm certainly not blaming minorities for the discrimination/racism which they suffer. However, just like with your example of blacks calling others sell-outs, self-imposed segregation and separation must be acknowledged before any meaningful change can occur.

J

FranksnBeans

Gray665

superbryant

Of course, one issue with pointing the finger solely at black people - that lifestyle, that set of cultural expressions and that distrust of mainstream white culture don't just come from nowhere. There's a history of oppression and lack of opportunity, coupled with rejection of legitimate cultural expression by the larger mainstream culture that built that and still contributes to it today.

I'm not absolving anyone of responsibility - black culture or white culture or American culture overall.

hegemonyhog

By saying you don't believe in racism, does that mean that you don't believe in race? It seems kind of a stretch otherwise...

The problem with simply taking the approach towards a given portrayal that it's entertaining or even seen as desirable is that it ignores the messages implicit in the portrayal. Birth of a Nation, to use an extreme example, was a romanticization of the Klan. There was a lot of popular buy-in to the movie's message, and recruitment for the Klan shot up immensely after the movie was released. Do we excuse the racism and hatred in the movie because people bought into it?

For the purposes of this discussion, even if Fenix is a stereotype (which he is), he's not a stereotype of white people - he's a stereotype of a postapocalyptic solder/hero. It's the purposeful conflation of a term so as to confuse and distort meaning. It's a stereotype that lawyers drive nice cars, and it's a stereotype that black people all love fried chicken. They aren't the same thing and don't have the same social meaning at all.

hegemonyhog

Here's the irony, this is what legions of black people want to see. I'm black and I see it every day as I walk the streets of Center City Phila but I hate it. Many black people can't relate to anything that's not hood or ignorant. An intelligent black character is seen as "fake". To live a positive life is seen as selling out. If a character doesn't cater to hip hop culture...(or the hip hop fad which is more fake than anything else) then black people tend to ignore it.

It's a shame really. there have been many attempts to break these stereotypes but most have fell on deaf ears and closed minds. I don't blame industry or "white people" for this. I point the finger at black people. My own people. The stereotypes originate from the lifestyles that people hold in high regard. If anyone doesn't believe that, feel free to walk down the street of any major city and you'll get all of the examples you need. What interviews from black sports figures after a NBA or NFL game. The belief of many is if you're a black man in the US, you have to love hip hop, you have to drink, you have to smoke, you have to have some kids, you can't speak proper english with complete sentences and you're not down if you don't cater to the latest fashion disasters. (like your pants hanging down to your knees)

It's sad, but I see it and hear it everyday.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

congrats on the best post of the thread.

jfx316

I have friends who we make dumb jokes like that too. Sounds like you're probably really close to that friend since he lets you do that. We do that kind of stuff to because we are conscious about the stereotypes and that's how we get deal with the, by joking around. I doubt you'd be able to go to a random black person you don't know and say, "here's a bucket of fried chicken!" and start laughing. So I disagree with you about these jokes being harmless. Chris Rock and George Lopez can make certain jokes because they see them as having gone through the same things as us.. so it's okay for them to make those jokes. But I doubt you'd laugh if you overheard a group of kids saying, "ha ha man those damn ______ can't drive for shit" There's a difference between saying a joke with your friends and then seeing it on TV. As a Latino I will tell you that it does get annoying to see the sleeping mexican, speedy gonzales, ganbanging, not-interested in education parents, on wellfare (in actuality stats show that white single mothers are the biggest group on wellfare and public service).

It's harmless yeah? Then you tell me is it harmless to see people of color put at the front lines in wars? Is it harmless to have kids harassed by cops? Is it funny that schools with the highest percentage of Latinos and Blacks are among the lowest funded in California?

Is this caused by the portrayal of one character in a videogames? No.. but it is part of the problem. It is part of the media image that adds to teacher expectations, politician expectations... and the weird thing is how you use that one friend as a representation of all black people. Really, so he speaks for all people who share his ancestry? Just like you speak for all people who are Asian? One other interesting fact is that although Asian students might be one of the biggest groups in USA schools and may outperform their white counterparts.. Asian students are less likely to get one of the higher positions in American companies where leadership skills are necessary and on average earn less for the same positions worked by white males. So you're telling me that you see no link between this and the stereotypes of the asian students who is good at math and chem, bio, calc, etc, but isn't creative and good at leadership (either that or a karate master.. but i'm talking about students here). You do realize that asian students are portrayed as good at getting the work done and following directions but not at being innovative,creative, or leading. Yeah, those stereotypes must have no link whatsoever to how companies perceive students when hiring them.

almarota1979

My friend, EVERY soldier in that game is a shit-talking, muscle-bound manly-man; only the black one, as I recall, is a former athlete. In real life, don't athletes sometimes join the armed forces? Like, say, Tillman?

So, if the only difference in this GAME that we're dealing with is that Epic chose to make all the main characters MOSTLY the same, except to have the black one as a former athlete, don't you think that diatribes like, say, hegemonyhog's, are a little out of proportion to the "offense"? Do you think we'd be having this discussion if, say, Baird was the former athlete that the other characters ADMIRED and Cole wasn't? Unfortunately, if they made Cole the smart-ass instead of Baird, I'm sure Mr. hegemonyhog's panties would still be in a wad over the blatant attack of every black person alive, dead, and in utero. 'Cuz, you know, he speaks from experience and all. Unlike me....

BTW: I would take issue with describing Cole as the "token black dude". Not because it's offensive, because I don't think it to be. But, because it's not accurate. Why not call Dom the token latino? Or Marcus the token Jew? If there were, say, 50 characters and all except 2 were black, would that make it better? Or would that be an over-correction?

Or, can we not agree that in a game with 5 or 6 heroes, having one black man and one latin man is actually a GOOD THING? Again, neither Dom nor Cole are portrayed negatively in that game. They are EACH portrayed as the respective badasses we all wanted to play as kids; they just had different pigmentation.

J

FranksnBeans

Grey_Fox

I see plenty of people of all races liking this character and as someone pointed out, his qualities seem positive NOT negative to them. I.e. they would emulate and be like him, and think that was cool. He is a hero in the game's universe.
Video games unfortunately are still behind most other established media in having deep or interesting characters as a norm (they do exist).

I don't see black people in jamaica or Africa (meaning outside western culture) relating to this character, so I don't see this as anything but a western stylized character of a western demographic, which I do see in the western media, and usually thought of as positive.
I don't think Cole Tran is any worse a stereotype than Fenix and wouldn't have found the game any different if I had played Cole Tran. But that's just my opinion.

Sometimes these stylizations can be celebrations. There are plenty of things celebrated and celebrities that I find ironic in western culture, that are not positive traits to me at all.

Ehardergardens

...well I'd link it but their comic archive is down. Trust me, it's so so funny.

Still, not sure how 'roid raging action movie grunts fighting giant space zombies and insects constitutes "a lot of fictional justifications for this culture"? Did I miss some major exposition cinematic in Gears?

gaijira

Cole Train.

The name is ridiculous. Fucking Coletrain. are you kidding me JOHN COLETRAIN, the JAZZ musician??? Is that the best you can do? Really, Epic? Hmph? I guess Black people LOVE Jazz, Huh? Perfect.

We've got a black character, lets name him after another black character instand of take a second to create an"origional" name. Here how hard it would be to come up with another:

Jacob Hall
Aaron Stratus
Robert Everest
Colin Cane
Derrek Talis
Carl Weathers (Joke)
Miles Silver

...you get the point. I did that in about 27 seconds and you came up with derivative and unimaginative COLE fucking TRAIN.

I played the game. It was kind of fun. The point of all of this, is that American culture has no idea of what it means for a Black person to be average. There is no normal character. He is either Hyper-masculine, or some kind of coward.

I have been waiting for a black person to be cast as a stereotypical hero in a game. (or anywhere) I am currently playing Drakes Fortune on PS3 and I am constantly thinking to myself, "there is NO reason that Drake couldn't be a black character using the same script and the same story. The interesting thing is that it might make the game MORE interesting.

The problem is, as with America, is that publishers don't want to mess with the system. Its not that they are (in ALL cases) racist, its that they don't want to walk out on a limb and take the risk of creating a character that is so different, that they alienate their customers. That is how Racism plays out; when it is a function of a system driven by institutional inequity. What gamers need to do is educate producers, in forums like this, to the fact that people are willing to buy games that feature Black main characters, or characters of other ethnicities. I dont know for sure that this is even true, but the fact that there are opver 300 comments in this post says something.

Kotaku: Do a poll. Ask readers of they would be willing to pay $60 for a AAA title, from a AAA publisher (i.e. not F'ing 50 cent) featuring a Black main character.

If publishers see that, maybe the next Nathan Hale, complete with heroics and intelligence, will be black, maybe Marcus Phoenix will be black and his sidekick will be some caricature of a white character. (which there are admittedly plenty of) @WordMan: I don't think you know what you're talking about. Jazz from transformers (The Cartoon) was a character that represented integrity, fair dealing, intelligence as well as strength. He was Prime's Second in command for God's sake, thought people would never know that. The point is, yes, negative stereotypes are based on elements of reality, but when that is the only depiction of a person or group society operates on, you have a problem.

And by the way, those "Black" DJ's on the radio, are often people of other ethnicities, white (and I know some Asian DJ's in LA) affecting their voice in a "Black" dialect. Whatever that even means. Black culture is a commodity. Selling "Black" culture is an industry, which is part of the reason media does not want to depart from the established model of black representation.

ibelli

Set the example before criticizing people for following it.

Elroc

To me that kind of sounds like saying that pointing out that the building is on fire is bad because people might panic and get hurt trying to get out.

It seems that such an approach is similar to closing your eyes and hoping it goes away.

I don't think that dismissing claims of stereotyping as overreaction is the most productive thing to do.

jccalhoun

Lets see... so you're argument (when we strip it to its bare bones) is that racism only exists because point out things. So in other words it's warped into being racist? So if we went along with our lives and never mention how Latinos and African Americans are underrepresented in colleges, are disproportionally represented in lower income brackets, more likely to be stopped by cops, .. so if we ignore this then the racism magically disappears?

The fact is.. research has shown that
-people are more likely to have a negative perception of black people
-people are more likely to expect negative things from people of color
-people of color are overrepresented in the news even in communities where most of the crime is committed by white people
-there are lower expectations of students of color held by not all, but definitely by many teachers

many of us live with these false ideas that racism is gone. Funny thing is, most of the people that believe this are white (or just a well of person of color who has somehow been shielded form these things).. which makes sense. It's hard to see something that you yourself don't experience.

If we went through games and counted the non-stereotypical roles that were played by a Latino,African American, Asian, Indian character I'm sure the results would be shocking. Don't get me wrong.. white stereotypes are used too (i.e. the white trash, hick, country music listener) the difference is that it's really easy to think of a game where a white character didn't fit these stereotypes. How easy is it for you think of a Black character that didn't' fit the stereotype presented in this article? You may have to think about it for a while before you come up with something... which shows how rare those characters are compare to stereotypical characters. Here's another one for you.. when is the last time you saw a Latino or Black character play the main role in a game that didn't fit the prevalent stereotypes?

Don't come with that idiotic argument about racism only existing because people point it out and exaggerate. It's the equivalent of saying that a forest fire is only there once people point it out. Racism is hurting people every day, yes as a person of color you can get through life without calling it racism, but it's still going to burn you as you make your way through life whether you acknowledge it or not.

almarota1979

Sure, it's not hate-filled racism, but it definitely shows a lack of creativity and/or balls to do something with the character other than make him a racial stereotype, however innocent the intention.

I think complaining about it is justified to a certain degree, but there is certainly a point to where it just becomes ridiculous.

Ma1agate

chiefpoopingpants

Luziphir

shitheadfatass

Ma1agate

Skunky

And for fuck's sake, don't get me started on Griggs from CoD4.

Ma1agate

"The Train is at home on the rails, baby!"

peztrip