<![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work - Kotaku Comments]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work - Kotaku Comments]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I have been watching this story as well. I think the guy was doing a shoot for a smaller local company in his area. I do that stuff all the time. Guess what, I'm not going to back up all of my smaller jobs double and triple. If the client wants another picture, they pay!
Yeah, he only stored the stuff on one drive...those things cost a lot if you are, like me, in your first year of business.
copyright registration can get expensive for a photographer. you can't really charge the client for copyright registration because....well, its not in their best interest. You can register copyright in bulk, too. Over and over again while you are working during the year could come out to tens of thousands of bucks.
So currently, hes done his copyright registration and, I believe is waiting for the return. I'm not sure, but I believe he has also contacted an Intellectual Property attorney.
This guy worked hard on creating a great shot that I would bet has 10grand worth of gear involved.
It just doesnt really matter how well prepared the thief in question is, i believe the law is on the side of the photographer and it streatches all the way to the constitution.






Mitchel109

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I actually remember that picture... XD

anyways, I don't really like how it makes her boobs look so round and well, soggy like they're hanging or something... the top just looks weird... :P

MySoul7

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I just took a look at the forum the photographer originally posted in and THQ can easily get away with this. THQ can claim "innocent infringement" which means that while they acknowledge an infringement happened, they did not knowingly infringe on the photo's copyright because it was submitted by the model to the HIN's show producers (who ought to have cleared art assets) and then submitted to them. That effectively scoops them out of the basket of culpability.

THQ, in making the game, likely asked HIN to give them any art assets that might be useful in the development of the game and this model's submission materials obviously included the photo. Most high-value contracts have a clause that says the submitting party has done it's part to clear assets of any copyright hindrances or that it owns the copyrights to those assets outright - HIN is responsible, not THQ directly.

If the photog has a beef, it should be with the model for sending out photo materials to the show and the producers of the HIN show for not properly clearing the photo. In the future, the photog should watermark his images. I'm sure he's learning there's more to the photography business than photography.

zer0zen

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @emag:
Piracy is bad, mmmkay? I don't care what kind of argument is made for peer to peer "file sharing", it's against the law and unethical.

As for the "little guys" you mentioned, I'm not sure how you can compare being a boom-mic operator or camera man to being a freelance photographer. The equipment operators aren't "making" anything. Sure you might argue that they are, but it doesn't take much to hold a mic where the audio director tells you to, or to point a video camera where the video director tells you to. Plus these guys are all on the payroll of some kind of production company. Freelance photographers are not.

As for the exposure joke, yeah, I didn't have my Kotaku-cap on at the time, so I missed that one. It's actually kinda funny now that I realize hat he did there. Heh. Still doesn't change the fact that THQ are douchebags for stealing this guys photos.

PissedPS3Fan

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @pandafresh:

He's a photographer he has to protect his intellectual property. Photographers make money from, that's right you guess it, the photographs they take and LICENSE to other groups.

If the creators of this game used his work and profited from it then he has every right to get a piece of those profits.

Zarian

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Nowell: Aloran already corrected your info on copyrights, but I'm curious... Where did you get that info? Those are some very specific time frames mentioned, so there must be some source.

It has been a long time since people have been required to register for and continually renew copyrights in the US. The law as it stands now is that copyright is instantaneous and automatic.

SinistarX

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> hmm

busy

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> After reader the forum post I'm calling 'Shenanigan's' on this.

In the post the guy says he's a photographer and worked on what I would presume is a fairly well-known chain, since we have a couple here in New Hampshire, Beach Planet.

He then goes on to say that he did this work for them but he only saved his digital images to ONE hard drive, and that drive has *unfortunately* crashed so he can't prove that image is his.

Having worked in traditional and digital photography studios I know that you just don't do this. As soon as you're done shooting the images you immediately burn the RAW's to a DVD. After that you save them out on multiple drives. And then any retouching is saved on on other multiple hard drives.

This professional photographer only saved his commercial clients work onto one hard drive in his computer? Doesn't make sense.

This guy either has no desire to make easy money if that client decides to come back to use those images again; he doesn't understand the fundamentals of digital photography (which then leads me to believe if he did shoot this images and THQ asked for them, he probably didn't understand what was going on); or he's just trying to get some attention for his future work or money.

Something doesn't sit right about what this guy is saying...

russrenshaw

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> wowwewewa! hubba hubba

Raikkenon

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @emag:

Where did he advocate piracy? Do you just assume everyone on the internet apart from yourself is constantly downloading torrents of games/movies/albums? I suppose that you are above reproach though?

How about nobody steal from anybody. As it is, THQ is reminding me of Eliot Spritzer (who wanted stiffer and stiffer fines for Johns and turned out to be one himself), complaining against losses due to theft and then turn around and save money on producing crappy games by stealing resources. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

thefremen

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Whenever I as an artist see large company's pull shit like this Iget angered, at the same time, accidents do happen, and long Thq is cool about it and maybe throws the guy a bone this will lot of free publicity for both model and photographer.
bonus for him

matteblender

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Nowell:
Photographers automatically own the copyright to their work the second the shutter clicks. I work in the photo business; the photographer doesn't need to do anything special to reinforce his copyright - he has it, guaranteed. The only exception is if he was employed by a studio at the time, in which case the studio would own the copyright.

Aloran

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> He 99% won't be getting anything. From reading the forum topic, the guy hadn't even copyrighted the image. It's been almost 6 months since Juiced 2 has come out, and the window for the copyright I believe is 90 days. While it sucks that the image was used, the circumstances aren't in their favor. The model submitted this pic with her portfolio when she became a model for Hot Import Nights, and at the time, it was not copyrighted. Though it is slightly underhanded, there was nothing wrong with THQ using the image in the game, and I'm sure there's a clause in the contract she was under with HIN that allows them to use her pictures for the game.

Basically this guy went: "Oh I took some pictures that someone didn't use, no use putting a copyright on them. What? Someone used one in a game 6 months ago? Time to cash in!"

/endthread

Nowell

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @pandafresh: They made HER sign something, but it's still the picture-taker's photo to sell or not sell.

GOLD5

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @PissedPS3Fan: Hell yes! I'm a photographer too! :D

Yeah neko, stuff like this is NOT cool. I've gone through this process where one of my photos won a contest and was then used in ANOTHER contest by some twat.

Needless to say. His face got creamed on by me and the justice system.

Although... the red tape IS a bitch, it's useful and a very big thing to keep in your files.

xMaverick

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> tamato tomato theft has so many subcatagories that piracy also falls in to theft.

using copyrighted matieral without permission can also fall under the catagory of theft.

do we have to split hairs?

Dakobah

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Kinky, let's just leave it at that.

Pezdispenser

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I don't see how any of this has anything to do with piracy. What they allegedly did wasn't piracy, it was theft.

SolInvictus

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @OneFreeMan: So now that the project's done and the game has been released, where's their money? I bet you'd care if you worked hard on something and didn't get your dues. It's not right.

June

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Lunisneko: Uh, I'm pretty sure pirating games is theft.

Regardless. Using someone elses copyrighted material without permission is fail.

balls187 upside yo head

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> You're welcome Kotaku. I love u guys.

balls187 upside yo head

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Erwin:

"Just look what happened to John Kerry"

Sorry for the double post but I had to let you know that I just lol'ed.

Lunisneko

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @emag:

Piracy isn't theft. Piracy is the duplication and sharing of data. Juice Games didn't share this picture, they sold it. And the photographer deserves a cut for his work.

Lunisneko

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @emag:
Comment on Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work Well hell, I didn't want to have to bother replying but here I go... Piracy is not theft. Piracy is the duplication and sharing of data. This was not sharing, it was duplication and sale of data. THQ made (a little) money off of this game, and the photographer deserves a part of that money since he was the one that snapped that shot.

NevadaZefron

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @neko613: I thought it was pretty obvious. Best just to move on and forget about a messed up joke. Just look what happened to John Kerry.

Erwin

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @emag:

Those little guyes are paid, their also usually in a thing I like to call, a Union.

Those people are paid no matter what, if the movie sucked, they still work for the same amount, if it was a blast, their still getting paid the same amount.

Interwebs

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Oh come on guys it was a joke. Models in swimsuits are supposed to like "more exposure".

neko613

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Detre:

hahahaha me too, I was just about to post it here

Skaffa

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @neko613: This 'good exposure' you mention is essentially working for free. The photographer and the model have invested time and money into this photo, so unless they're paid for it they're essentially working at a loss. Not a great idea if you want it to be your main source of income.

Moreover, if the photographer wishes to license this image for use elsewhere, his bargaining power might be reduced if the prospective client finds out its being used elsewhere for free. Along a similar vein, if he doesn't follow this up and other prospective clients find out, why wouldn't they just go ahead and use whatever images they wanted without permission or payment?

@Re:Loaded: Juiced 2 (however sucky it is) has made it into the top 10 and top 20 weekly sales in at least the Australia and the UK respectively, with circulation like that there is enough to be made to make it worth the photographers efforts to follow this up.

@Morberis: The photographer shouldn't have to sign something to protect his rights, this should be as standard - a contract is bought into the equation when the photographer wishes to license some of those rights for a specific use. THQ has no link to this photographer, and while yes the model did provide them with a copy of the image, they should have known better than to use it without the permission of the photographer, who by default retains all rights to any image he has created. In most situations like this, the image would only be accepted from a third party if they can provide a written document showing that they are in a position to relicense the image for the new usage.

D-SMP

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> "What is a kotaku?" quote from there forum. I loled.

Detre

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @PissedPS3Fan: Funny how people care when it's the "little guy" getting ripped off. There are plenty of "little guys" operating the boom mics and the cameras and the recording equipment on those movies and songs that people pirate left and right. There are plenty of "little guys" working on games for EA and Sony and Epic that are torrented day and night.

emag

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @June: A few of my animation friends from Sheridan College worked on car models for Need For Speed: Prostreet, but to this day they have yet to be paid as was promised.

You know they call it "contract" work for a reason, right? So... ?

OneFreeMan

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @neko613: Im going to assume that the guy who took the photo and isnt making any money from its use which IS making money....

Allfather Black

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I was over at fred miranda when he posted that picture I remember it vividly because of the shockingly beautiful girl in it. I hope he gets what he deserves.

Milkham

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Idontloveyou:

True, but in any case this is not for the most part about the success of the game but about the (possibly) illegal use of the image.

One interesting thing I picked up from that forum is that apparently he signed nothing when he handed the image away.

Morberis

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @Morberis: I don't think this is the case, but it may not be just about the money (even if payment had been offered) - maybe she didn't want her image in the game at all for some reason. I've worked with modeling stuff before and sometimes models specifically do not want their image used in certain media for whatever personal reason.

Idontloveyou

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I wouldn't like if someone stole my work, made money off of it, and proclaim it was theirs or put false words in my mouth saying I allowed it.

I hope he does get some sort of payment if it is his work.

Interwebs

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @arstal:

It's not that the picture raised sales it's that he and she weren't paid the amount they should have been.

Morberis

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @neko613: If that was your work you'd fucking care quite a bit.

krunkjuice

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> TV and newspapers have to buy or clear each and every still they use and so do games. You can't just 'borrow' somebodies work without express permission from the copyright holder. The question is, who is the copyright holder?

There's no real money in it, but it's poor form.

Re:Loaded

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Sadly, incidents like this happen because companies have been known to get away with it. A few of my animation friends from Sheridan College worked on car models for Need For Speed: Prostreet, but to this day they have yet to be paid as was promised. Where is justice when wealthy, big shot companies are reduced to ripping off starving college kids? It's not like they can afford to sue.

June

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @MrStabby6: Yeah that made me smile

hamandcheeseUK

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Only thing I know about the game was one of my friends was a VA for one of the drivers in the game.

How much damages could he realistically claim? I doubt his art raised sales any.

arstal

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I'm sure THQ would be fine with give him royalties from all 5 copies of Juiced 2 they sold

Len Bias Cocaine Surplus

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> I wouldn't want anyone to know anything I did was of Juiced caliber. =D

Zing!

Custom Reality

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @PissedPS3Fan: More exposure? Did you miss the joke there?

Erwin

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @DaiMacculate: The first one on original Xbox was decent, but seemed much like a cash-in on the NFSU/F&tF craze. It was decent, but nothing special.

残心

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @PissedPS3Fan:
What this guy said.

You can't dismiss it because the game isn't great or if it doesn't break the 1M sales mark.

elevenoverzero

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @pandafresh: The guy says the model and he both did not give permission for the photo to be used.

Maldron

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> That message post reads like it came from a 13 year old teen with the writing skills of a 1st grader.

Good lord, you would think that most adults would (and SHOULD) have better writing skills than that.

Indy_aka_Rex

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Love the last post on that thread, "what is a kotaku?".

MrStabby6

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @DaiMacculate: Just a tad mediocre.

ohhello

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> @neko613:
As a budding photographer, I've been following similar stories elsewhere. The point isn't about "exposure". The point is that someone STOLE the photograph.

If I copy your song and put it on my album and sell a million copies, that's cool because you're getting "exposure" right?

The photo was used without permission, and is being used in a commercial product that is making money for THQ. The photog and the model are not being compensated for this. This is against the law.

PissedPS3Fan

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> "OMIGAWD THEY STOL MAI PICHUR OF GRRL IN BAKINEEZ" I have a strange feeling "Hot Import Nights" (awful,awful name) have their asses covered, and probably made her sign something she wasnt entirely aware of. if not, good luck you suers! This is America, we get rich from lawsuits!

pandafresh

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> Did anyone buy/play this game? Can it really be as bad as it looks/sounds?

Because its looks and sounds so bad (title, screens, content, etc), that it might go all the way around and cross into awesome.

But probably not. So I'm curious.

DaiMacculate

]]> <![CDATA[Photog Claims Juiced 2 Swiped His Work]]> It might be copyright infringement...but who cares? The more people get the see this babe, the better! Isn't more exposure what models need in their business?

neko613

]]>