Isn't the age of consent in Japan 14 or something anyway?!?

Legal to have real sex, but illegal to look at an erotic cartoon....

sheesh.

MikieNes

@pot3ntial2suck: Actually, said part of law has been deemed unconstitutional, as well as previous laws with the same language. And your whole thinking is fundamentally flawed, child porn is illegal because it involve victimizing children. Being a pedophile isn't illegal, acting on pedophilic impulses is.

Akin

Let's just take a quick look at what would happen if they did manage to do this.

1) First, we have our normal people that like loli/shota, which makes up the majority. They'll probably still try to partake in it and maybe end up getting arrested, or they'll just always have to worry about it. They weren't going to do anything before to kids, and they're not going to now. In general though, life will just be worse for them.

2) Then, you have the other group of people. The ones that aren't quite right in the head and absolutely crave this type of thing to a point of needing it. When they suddenly can't get their fix, where do you think they're going to go? You think they're going to just say, "I guess I'll just forget about it and go to normal women"? If anyone thinks that, they've gotta have a few screws loose up there. They're going to end up going after real children.

In other words, all UNICEF would achieve here would be making a lot of people unhappy and causing more children to be raped. Ugh, I can't when stand people who use only religious/societal beliefs and not logic. XP

JfishSoM

This discussion is pretty much like violence and sex on games. Instead of trying to solve the real problems, people ignore them and do something useless just to say "hey, we're doing something".

Like banning violent games because parents and retailers can't stop kids from playing and buying games that weren't made for them.

Or in this case, banning some harmless adult fantasy because they can't effectively deal with child abuse problems.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

This is the most unfortunate yet hilarious accidentially missed word error i've seen in a long while.

Ashton

There's no category for "normal", so if you're looking for early 20's and "girl next door"....."teen" is usually the search term of choice.

Billkwando

L_K_M

I think people need to learn the difference between reality and illusions. Do I think it's disgusting? Yes. There are many things I find disgusting, but if it's not hurting anyone, "it disgusts me" should not be any reason for it to be illegal.

Zunnoab

Drei

As to the original topic, this action won't do anything, and wouldn't help if it did.

rdj

People are still ignorant, they still believe in things like a "higher purpose" and that "we are better than the animals". We ARE better than 'lower' animals, but only because we can make a shiny gun. Our fundamental bits are still animal. If there is a God then he is within our DNA.

So what I'm saying is why deny something that is so a part of us AND has no reason to be denied? Teens are prime reproducing age, so let them reproduce if they so desire.

@RPGr:
You sir, are basically stating some of the same things that I have said. Minus the iconoclasm of mine. I agree with you fully. The question we must pose to ourselves: "Is this extended childhood a good thing?"
My answer is a resounding no.

Impurethinker

peacefuloutrage

There's some tidbits of the Japanese (well, the internet-capable) community's response to this over at Itai news [blog.livedoor.jp] , with a link to "Genji Monogatari," ancient Japanese scripture where the main character goes through relationships with girls at least as young as 12-years old. A small reminder that this, and many many other pieces of famed Japanese literature will be considered banhammer worthy if this kind of law goes into effect.

muu

bosintang

SC123

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

also, in the eyes of westerners, asians, especially asian girls, look 2-6 years younger anyways.

i'm just an asian guy with an asian chick fetish :P

Unicef wasting more time and $$$ by doing something in stupid ways just to get more exposure. go help some starving kids in africa with that time and money.

bosintang

Child porn that doesn't have any children in it isn't harmful to anyone. Legally the people involved are all adults and capable of making their own decisions. If they want to do that stuff, that's their call. Or if a person wants to draw a picture of a baby being raped, well, that's fine. It doesn't hurt anyone.

Are these things offensive to some people? Of course. But what isn't? If it infuriates you that someone could get enjoyment out of a 3D rendering of a 12-year old having sex with an adult, that's fine. Stifle it, or chat about it with your book club. But organize against it? No, if you do that, you obviously aren't aware of the REAL issues in the world.

Some people will argue that looking at virtual child porn makes an individual more likely to commit a criminal sexual act against a child. This argument is the same as saying that playing violent games or watching violent movies makes a person more likely to be violent or shoot up their high school.

It's just sad. All that money, all those man hours, all that publicity. It could be making a difference, instead of just being flushed down the toilet.

UltimatePancakeSensation

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

ArchAngel080

Curse you Unicef. Curse you for even considering taking my loli away from me...

Rubiximus

Dear lord, I admit Japan has some serious damn pedo issues but WTF @ that. Watch as in the future they start going after you for thought crimes.

KraZe

Gee, does that sound familiar to anyone?

Moonshadow101

Xagest

Spiderbait

Shocking that it took so long for someone to actually do the right thing, too.

Seiryuu

I've been the same person since I was about 13, and I'm 33 now, so I must agree with you. I'm just as silly too, if not sillier. More mature too, but personality, beliefs and such..... all the same, basically.

I also never "look back and laugh" at things that happened in the past, because I remember how I felt when things happened and they're no funnier now. If it was funny, I laughed then.

@Seiryuu:

I'm guessing you clicked on my link about Genarlow Wilson? Fucked up, aint it?

Oh and on my personal Opera problem, posting to Kotaku seems to work from the simulator, just not from an actual phone. Can anyone else try it and confirm? (if you have OM4)

Billkwando

This is mostly due to our now longer lives. Not 4-6 generations ago, the norm was to marry and start pumping out kids at 14. This was especially important in rural areas where an extra pair of hands meant easier work. When infant mortality rate was about 50% (half your kids might not reach the age of 6).

Even in some cultures currently, it isn't odd for a 14 year old to be married to a 20ish person or older.

The people saying that the current age of "consent" is a social contruction are right.

Still because we are living longer and as such do have an extended childhood (which many social obervers would argue lasts into the mid-20s) we have to think about how that reflects into our laws as well. Lets face it, a teen that becomes pregnant has a much lower chance of being "successful" than one that does not.

Biologically speaking, menopause sets in about 40. Those "childless" womens "biological clock" start ticking around 35.

Remember the problem with "global population explosion" in the 80's? Now it's replaced with "population shrinkage" and "workforce shortage".

What I'm getting at here is that we do have a problem that a couple of posters have stated above (albeit for the wrong reasons), that we are a generation of "expanded childhoods". As such we are coddled too much with too much social engineering.

A good part of this problem is the societla perception that if you don't have a "University diploma", you're nothing. Of course prior to the housing bust in the US, those that were making the most money were the skilled trades people. Why does this matter? The problem is because people that go to University (such as myself) do not have a chance to grow up. We are in school from ages 4 to mid 20's. It gets worst as tuition gets higher and higher.

Think about it. By the time we get out of post-secondary school and establish ourselves (i.e. "relationship material"), we're in the upper 20's. Studies show that past the age of 30, people baring children have an increased risk of that child being born pre-mature, with defects and disbilities as opposed to kids born before the parents are 30.

Starting to see the bigger picture yet?

How long does it take for the average person to earn enough money to pay of loans and buy a house? About 5 extra years after graduating and entering the workforce.

Sure, humans are "rational" creatures but for the sake of societal acceptance, we are forced to suppress biological imperitives for the best years of our lives where it is the most advantagous to do so.

A lot of the arguments above are mixing up biological facts and social contructs. "Schoolgirl outfits" are a mixture of both. If school girl outfits were huge ass parkas I'd bet those would be "sexy". For our formative, impressionable years what we see makes a lasting impression on us.

Hell, if you really want to de-sexualize everything you'd have to be liberal to the extreme. That is everyone walking naked all the time.

But I think we've veered a bit off topic to the original post.

The reality of the above blog post/article is a victimless crime. You're trying to ban things that do not really have to do with actual situations. It includes role-play between two consenting adults and pronographic liturature! That is the worst part.

In other words, you're banning the very thought of doing "immoral" (and I use the term lightly as it culturally relevant) things.

If things like this go through that means that society can convict anyone based on a very loose definition of intent. You're no longer basing laws on acts.

So what could this lead to? Well consider that we now have enough data and tech prowess to be able to scan thoughts. Sure, a guy has to be hooked to a machine but given that tech continues to advance I would not think it's out of the realm of thought that one day this technology can be implemented into a chip that can send the thought patterns of a person to be analyzed.

Would you like to be convicted for thinking "that girl is hot" or "that boy is cute"? How about "I don't have the moeny to buy that chocoloate bar, maybe I should steal it?".

Even moreso, could a person now claim statuatory rape if someone gets someone else to dress up as that person?

The basis of natural justice is on the basis of act + intent. When laws are written based on intent alone we have a dictatorship.

RPGr

And this is why NO ONE should use their narrow religious views to dictate mainstream morality, you end up with ridiculous stuff like that.

Seiryuu

There's no such thing as a logic of the gene, just as it is ludicrous to declare that we shouldn't build tall buildings because things tend to fall down. The fact that certain behaviours may be genetically encouraged says nothing about whether we should try to exceed them.

Heck, arguably, the 'nature' of man is to defy our very natures.

FhnuZoag

I would like to comment on the sub-debate going on here on emotional/societal maturity though, although not necessarily with regards to sex.

It's a huge annoyance of mine when people parrot the belief that people of age X less than Y are not emotional/societal mature. Obviously, many look at other people and believe they see this fact in them. But, to heck with other people. What about you personally? How many of you feel you've matured/changed much since your mid-teens? Honestly.

Personally, I'm a firm believer that I haven't changed much at all since I was 13, which was nearly 13 years ago. Perhaps I matured faster than my peers, but I doubt it. Nearly all of my friends that I had then are exactly the same today as they were then. Of course, I hung out with the "intelligent, computer programmer geek" types rather than the "go to party, do drugs" type.

On a related note, I ended up marrying my high-school sweetheart and have spent my entire adult life with her. And, again, she hasn't really changed much since she was 17. While she ended up marrying someone 8 months younger than her, I'm fairly certain had she married someone 28 months older that things would be more of less the same. Age is honestly a stange watermark to use for most laws -- it doesn't really indicate anything other than ones chances of heart failure/cancer.

misterthou

Uzilover

Please disregard...

....that is, if it ever comes through....

Billkwando

At least Genarlow Wilson is finally out of jail:
[en.wikipedia.org]

Billkwando

The idea that it takes 12-16 years to learn how to read, write, and function in society is even more ludicrous than your accusation of Gannon. I'm not saying that I think it's okay for older men and women to prey on teenagers, but looking back at recent times I remember several 15-16 year old kids being sent to jail for statutory rape. In a time where they can take care of themselves and have consensual relationships, why should they be punished for doing nothing wrong.

The more people allow artificial systems control their lives, the worse off we'll be (I can learn the same thing from a textbook and experience that I may learn in a university. They exist mostly to make money and to help students meet other people's expectations [get this piece of paper and maybe I'll give you a job]).

peacefuloutrage

We are Animals and we have Reason. We should use this Reason to live in harmony with our Animal, to understand it, not defy our very natures.

And what 'most people' think is rarely the truth. It has no bearing on the truth. I can only hope that humanity will do some growing itself and get past this phase of worrying about something as minor as whether or not some 16 yo screwed some 28 yo.

Impurethinker

Oh and it's confirmed. Posting is definitely broken from Opera Mini 4. I just resubmitted the same test post 4 times and it still hasn't shown up yet. My real post, then I sent about an hour ago (at lunch), I resubmitted twice (at the time) because I could see it wasn't taking. Soooo frustrating.

Sorry for the OT. I don't know how else to let Kotaku know besides posting it.

Well, I guess I could email Crescente but I'm sure he has better things to do.....and it's not like he's responsible for the redesigns anyway.

Is there Gawker customer support?

Billkwando

Oh and a long post I made on my phone from Opera Mini got swallowed up.

I'm really not liking the monthly Gawker redesigns. They seem to break something different every time.

Ok, I hate them.

Billkwando

SuperMekman

If someone can be "mentally mature" enough to understand the consequences of their actions (in the murder sense) and be held accountable, couldn't that same person be held equally accountable for their actions in the sexual sense?

I know I'm omitting some variables here, but it's similar to the old "you're old enough to die in a war but not old enough to drink alcohol" argument.

Billkwando

You can defend it all you want, but at the end of the day, you are advocating something society at large considers monstrous. In your mind you might be in the right, but get used to a lot of people (myself included) saying otherwise. I don't care if people view "virtual child porn", I care if they have sex with children. And both biologically and mentally, someone 14 years old is almost always a child.

onidavin

LMFAO

Billkwando

ThreeLeafIvy

Instead of this, why not put your efforts into fighting REAL child pornography that creates REAL victims.

Sam_Lowry

If that were posiible, we wouldn't need cops. I agree with you though.

@ban_hammer:

I'm scared...

cyhborg

Because we are not speaking of children. You keep calling them children, but that doesn't make it true. Children should be protected, teens should have to fight for themselves.

And damnit I am saying IF they are stupid enough to do such then damn YES they should be allowed to make their mistakes. Stop treating the teens like babies and start treating them like adults. Take the kid gloves off.

I'm telling you, all of you, that this is what is inherently wrong with the system. We are ruining the future with this kind of crap. It's not just about teen sex, that's a small part of it. It's the way modern society treats it's youth and teens. And it needs to stop.

Basically we have engineered our society to end up being a bunch of (using some of my less refined language) 'a bunch of pussy-assed whiners'. And I don't see it changing anytime soon.

And frankly, what's the harm? With the teen sex I mean. Sure unwanted pregnancy and STD's. But that can happen at any age to anyone. You could argue that it will 'ruin their chances' of a good life. Bullshit. Anyone that this would ruin their life... they didn't have a chance to start with. Worthy people would make through this hardship. 'Oh' you say, 'what about the welfare babies?' Sorry again fellas, but having them wait till 18 isn't going to keep them from popping out little mouths to suck up my tax dollars.

For most people that are terribly upset at the older mate with teen concept it boils down to either
a) a misguided kind of "oh it will scar their emotions for life" thing. Assuming we aren't talking about rape (and I mean 'real' rape not 'statutory'), at most we are talking about something that will maybe leave some unpleasant memories. Boo-hoo. I had all kinds of unpleasant memories from my teen years. You can learn to get over this. Not a big deal. If it is a big deal... then this person will probably fail at life.
A bit Social Darwinist ? Sure is.
and my favorite theory...
b) simply put-- these people are upset because they are petty and can't find some hot teen to bed so they want to ruin the fun for everyone. Whether they realize this fact or not.

Impurethinker

+ Watch video

becomes

+ Watch video

ban_hammer

good points.

on topic though, it's gonna be difficult to determine what's legal and what's not since virtual charcters exist within worlds based on arbitrary rules by it's creator.

cyhborg

... Oh, wait.

Danin

oh, and adult video pornography which simulates under aged sex with legal adult actor/actresses?

but.....but...what about the REAL 3D children exploited pornography?!

I just...don't understand. why go after the CLEARLY reality splitting physically impossible-ideal women like imagery of anime, games and manga, when they should be doing going after the REAL criminals?

sometimes the Japanese Government, baffle me....

Onizuka-GTO

HJungle

I'm all for freedom from government restriction, but society has some rules for a reason. If you admit that they aren't emotionally ready, but have the urge, how can you still hold them responsible?

onidavin

@Impurethinker: Yeah, humans are animals. We are, however, rational, thinking animals, which means we aren't slaves of our urges. The problem with teen sex is that teenagers are generally:

- confused about their own feelings and
- in a position of weakness in relation to adults

It's all to easy for adults to take advantage of this, which is why it's a good thing that there are laws protecting children and teenagers from adults. There's a reason why children aren't held accountable for their actions in the same way adults are. "Their failing, their mistake" just doesn't cut it at that age.

L_K_M

McPaper

Then, there is the question of whether society should be encouraging and normalizing the desire to have sex with underdeveloped children. I would like to think we can all agree that in an ideal society we wouldn't encourage people to fantasize about sleeping with 6th graders.

pot3ntial2suck

Frank

Smadubaku

Now if you wanted to belt a guy in the grille for doing your 14 yo sister, well I dont' have any problem with that at ALL. Just be sure and not get your ass kicked, because that would be too funny for words.

Impurethinker

Sonjool

cybereality

Regardless, I think this UNICEF campaign is going nowhere.

Yuki

But really, it sounds like a cross between trying to fan the waves in all the oceans smooth and persecution for thought crimes, however unsavory those thoughts are. I agree that they should try harder to crack down on the real thing, which I understand they HAVE made leaps on in Japan; either that, or like Witz said, go after the obvious corruption in government - but then they'd have to get government cooperation for that. :/

fuchikoma

You can't draw pictures that make people sexually assault children -- it's just not possible.

DrFresh

onidavin

Impurethinker

syp

moominsean

This thread is full of negative comments about the Unicef's initiative and the "judeo-christian-centric" (it's Make-Up-Crazy-Words time) view of sexuality. However, none of those comments are as hostile, angry and exaggerated as yours - which therefore makes them much more convincing, and makes even people who disagree with them much more willing to listen to them and, maybe, amend their position.

And I have to admire the witticism. "Moronic slumbers", ha-ha! I can tell you're a hoot.

By the way, do not equate biological maturity with emotional maturity, humans aren't animals. In Vietnam, I met 15-year-old girls who were indeed more mature than many 25-year-olds here. But if a guy my age (27) went anywhere near my 15-year-old cousin, I would bash his fucking face in, because emotionally she is still a kid.
Which is why I've always found it impossible to have a definitive position on these issues: it's not just a matter of different cultures, it comes right down to each and every individual. Nature plays a very large part, sure, but it doesn't determine everything. Especially for us humans, the "intelligent" species.

Antiterra

onidavin

Impurethinker

Touy

Which is something most people are more than okay with and has little to, or nothing, to do with this.

It is as saying that all "gamers" love GTA or kill cops, or whatever else would come to mind (merely an example).

Seiryuu

Impurethinker

jettokisora

Gannon

thewallychamp

onidavin

Now, it's those jr high and highschool girls depictions that get to be a fuzzy line. They are often drawn with party shapes and features that aren't steotypically childlike, even if the character is Underage. Take Naruto hentai for example, those kids are twelve, but certainly don't look like it.

Now,whats even more disturbing is the growing trend in rape hentai and mutalition hentai. People who draw that should be closely looked at, as thats certainly not behavior we want to encourage and it's depictions in hentai are nothing like how a rape goes down in real life.

mrantimatter

Antiterra

I think that there are too many people in the world today (although, pleasantly, less than there used to be), that go through everything with a fine comb, trying to find things to be offended at and to change the world view, values, and morals, to their own.

X people shouldn't get to do X, Y people shouldn't do Y, and whoever disagrees with Z is an unsalvageable mongrel of a being that should be executed. People like those brought us such hits like the Inquisition, the world being flat, the prohibition, the war on drugs, etc.

They try to piss in the wind and think that "if only they could get Alcohol banned" then magically everyone will be a Moral person and behave according to the morality of said group. They have trouble with things like privacy, sex, art, language, and anything that might give people expression or individuality.

My guess would be that they don't like that the Japanese have a completely different concept of sexuality, where it is neither sinful nor shamefull, but a normal component of life, where a random nipple does not get one multimillion dollar fines, where people don't have sex primarily for babies, nor do they like or care the idea of "abstinence only".

Seeing such values in an advanced nation must give them such terrible pause, I mean, in Europe you can commonly see topless girls dancing after the news (and depending on the show, GIVING the news), but you know, Europe is Europe, but Japan? a stalwart ally and part of the Coalition of the willing? How can that ever be left to stand!.

It would be my guess that reasons like those have people like this going after drawings of girls in Sailor Outfits in Japan, instead of child brothels in Thailand and the Philipphines, and why things like say, "Barely Legal" and other porn series depicting "barely legal" girls that often look younger than "legal" are allowed to stand unbothered.

And it makes me wonder, if Unicef has no problem with 18 year old girls that look 14 having sex on camera, how do they justify going after drawings with pixelated or nonexistant organs (Again, japanese porn is oficially censored), and say that the later is such a terrible offense to children everywhere, but the former is peachy.

By the way, nice nick, I think there is also a Susaku running around, although I don't think I've seen a Genbu yet.

Seiryuu

arstal

Gannon

Could be because we have "liberal" laws governing the use of Internet (meaning the legislative process is too slow to keep up with development). The pedos that are the people who have pictures of it, but not actually done it.

This kind of selective banning that UNICEF is doing isnt going to work. Its like walking into a store, pointing at one random good and say "You cant sell that anymore". You arent actually solving any problems.

The_Phiphler

Any assumption that the masses would be ok with such materials is just pure ignorance on anyones behalf.

Witzbold

@Witzbold: I don't know enough about Japan to even speak definitively on this so I pose this question to you. Wouldn't you say that sort of corruption is the sort to allow some of the shit in hentai and doujins (I think that's how it's spelled) to go on for so long unchecked or is this campaign more of a grass roots movement while most Japanese are completely OK with those sorts of things?

okenny :)

Gannon

Any porn that uses real children, in my opinion, is disgusting. However, I don't see what a costume on a 18+ model has to do with child porn.

Robotube

Thing is, it's a victimless crime when virtual child porn is involved because there are no parties that require giving consent when none of them are real.

Ignatius

madflava

I mean theres blatant and theres BLATANT.

One thing about Japan is unlike the US it does not seem to have a good system of tracking sexual predators. Which can lead to quite a few problems, also due to folks being so trusting and without enough background checks makes one wonder at times.

Overall there already are laws in place but as with many of the laws in Japan its just there to make themselves look good, yet they dont exactly crack down on things as hard as they should.

A fine example on a different spectrum is how insane their immigration laws and such are, yet at the same time in Akiba you can find immigrants selling pirated software, which when you look at them they are most likely students, which their actions would be going against the student visas that they hold. Whats even more funny is this has been going on for years in the EXACT SAME LOCATION and the police nor immigrations do anything about it.

Anyways Ill cut off here since this comment in its own is losing its direction / purpose.

Once again though Byakko good points in a well thought out comment written by someone who has a different view on the situation as a whole.

Witzbold

avconsumer

RPGr

Also at your age that kind of age gap is what society does not really agree with, and you can't really be surprised at it. Even if girls mature faster, you're still dating an adolescent in the eyes of western culture.

onidavin

The fact they actually state sailor uniforms specifically just shows their own closeted knowledge of Japan's pornography industry. Focusing on specifics is just going to open Pandoras' Box...

Byakko

Kaabii

UNICEF are a bunch of idiots, just about as bad as Amnesty International around here, but I would like to think of the issue of child pornography as a global issue rather than a UNICEF one (though I guess, that's the thing being discussed here so I'm the one off tangent =/)

But I don't think the 'freedom of art' defense is at all suitable. I'm an artist, I get frustrated by censorship, I get frustrated by society's limitations, I dislike the way the world is around me regarding what is and isn't commercially viable.

But I don't forget that I'm not any better than the person who does buy my art, I don't forget that my nation is small and it's people are too many on too little a space. I don't forget that there are other people who suffer, and most of them are much much worse off than me.

The freedom of choice is not anarchy, it's the freedom to choose both our actions and our boundaries. I choose to restrict what I depict, I choose to make a statement by not condoning it. What should I be belittled for protecting children or for standing up for what is inherently right? How is the person who 'dares to be daring' a better person than me?

To say the ones who choose to make a statement, whether it be the government or society, as the antithesis of freedom is inherently a flawed argument. They are voicing their own choice, just as their opponents voice their own choice. The result of there choices have consequences, and because it was in the name of 'freedom' doesn't make it right!

The ones who oppress freedom are those on the sidelines dictating the terms of 'freedom'. They're the ones who give the term 'freedom' it's currently corrupted definition.

And I'm going to label UNICEF and Amnesty International as prime examples of such offenders. Amnesty refuses to leave my country alone, and that pisses me off. They confuse contentment with complacency. I say they're just a bunch of headline-drunk idiots who have long forgotten what was their duty.

Byakko

I like to see how this turns out

animemecha

Not happening. It's the God-given right of individuals to fixate on schoolgirls. Man that sounds wrong.

I remember a friend from Australia asking me if I knew where he could find a Japanese schoogirl uniform for his wife.

Tall socks never did it for me. I likes'em with no socks. No clothes also helps. Women of course. Not schoolgirls. There's something to be said about experience.

Billkwando

Gannon

This is garbage, they are trying to impose the same puritan Christian "Abstentinence only, missionary position only, for the sake of having babies only" pseudomorality on everyone under the guise of protecting the defenseless. "Won't somebody think of the children" comes to mind.

Here in Canada we get random people with Manga arrested because the proper authorities didn't think that a virtual character in a work of art looked old enough (We took the states bit and ran with it further making drawings deemed underage "child porn" even though the age of consent is 16 (Was 14 until March this year).

Regardless of how savoury the art in in question might be to individual tastes, pseudomoral organizations deeming what is fit to be made or expressed as art sets a dangerous precedent. If they can ban Sailor outfit manga because in some fantasy of them it translates to real world actions (rape in Japan per capita is way lower than in America), what stops the next group from coming around and banning the Gta's Mercenaries and Manhunts. There are all sorts of things that people find distasteful and would ban if given the chance.

Fortunately, you know, we punish people for going out and murdering others, not reading books, or playing games about it. Same goes for art.

IF they want to truly make a difference, they should go after the actual children abusers, the underage porn rings, you know, the people that actually do this stuff in real life and actually harm others.

But I guess banning the word fuck and depictions thereof is easier. Turn in next week when we see how Banning alcohol and drugs helped make the world a better place and humanity imploded when the tap was opened.

Also, someone should get around to telling them that Japanese porn is censored.

Seiryuu

I would like to clarify, the student in Kodomo no Jikan is A GIRL, and the teacher is a man of TWENTY. Also, I haven't actually watched the anime nor read the manga, but I do know the controversy currently surrounding it and it's actual content.

Byakko

...it's a state of double-standards. Most certainly, real life pedophiles should be chopped up and fed to the dogs, and I'd be there with the hatchet, and ditto for pedophilic material going into the bonfire cooking the remains (I'm sorry, I know this is sort of graphic. But for me, this is truly hatred =/).

Yet, I can't help but admit that maybe shota/loli might not be under the same category...but I'm only doubting myself because I can't help but admit that at one point in my life, I read shota just the same as I read yaoi. Once i got the pedophilia connection, I stopped, but I can't say I didn't enjoy it.

The thing is, if we're disgusted by say, virtual rape, which we feel justified because it's such a violent crime that shouldn't be carried out even virtually (I'm speaking from knowing the general opinions of my peers, so you might not agree), there's absolutely no reason not to view virtual statutory rape with any less condemnation. In fact, it SHOULD be worse.

The thing is we should consider the minds behind the creation of such virtual child pornography. There's shota and there's loli, which can be more or less described as one being dominantly created by and for females, and the latter by and for males.

I know that to females, shota is regarded as an extension of the yaoi genre. Specifically, it is often depicted with two or more boys of the same age (the easiest example that comes to mind is Digimon yaoi, where the main characters young and of the same age but and are paired up). The times when it does portray an older man, it's often less for the fact that they want to put in a child, but more that they want to put in a 'pretty boy'. The age of the boy himself is not usually the tantalizing bit, but this is just my own opinion on shota.

Loli I think, it's much more clearly seen as actual child porngraphy. The reason being it's not an extension of yuri (which usually seem to portray more mature women). It's heterosexual, and with older men, which are clearly using the whole idea of pedophilia as the central draw.

And then, you have the 'grey' areas. I'm not sure how many of you have heard of this manga/anime called Kodomo no Jikan, which can only be described as an anime where a student (about 10 years old) is sexually harassing her older teacher.

Now this seems to be the typical fuel for some sort of loli hentai. The thing is, this series was created by a woman, and the reason the anime/manga is not regarded as hentai or smut is because it tries to show something about child sexuality - Which in the context of Japan doesn't seem that unreal of the main characters.

So, is this child pornography? Or is it a statement on child pornography and child sexuality? Personally, I think of the series in the same vein as I regard Lolita. It's a study, and it's a portrayal. Not saying anything about the issue is worse than being frank about it.

Finally though, I believe there are certain ethics that can't be argued. The moment you start giving allowances is when cracks start to appear, and it's a detriment to everyone involved. I say, let them pass the law, because eventually it's going to anyway. The law is just there to be a statement, and I don't think it's a statement that should be argued lest the worse happens, and I'm just that much willing to restrict 'creative freedom' in the name of protecting the children that should inherit it.

Byakko

sorry for the rant I work in porn

DasKonstruct

The pen may be mightier than the sword, but should the pen really ever be banned from being used?
Sounds uncivilized if you ask me.

Azurite

tehFluffz

onidavin

Demaar

超外人

Gannon

GOD

Witzbold

Mayu-mayu

Don't get me started on UNICEF. I know people don't read much anymore with the advent of the TV, but I have seen too many accidents involving UNICEF ending in the deaths of third world children on our dime. After accidentally giving kids diseases from vaccines or killing kids with "bad baby formula", they now want to tell people in other countries how to think? We're better of using our money or time and reaching out to kids ourselves or using smaller organizations with better track records and less corruption.

There real events like what happened in Jersey (UK) with boarding schools having child sex and torture rooms along with mass graves AND NO ONE BEING APPREHENDED happening around the world. Companies that are known to have child sex and slavery rings getting US government contracts. Don't get me started on the abuse many kids are suffering at the hands of "child protective services".

[www.timesonline.co.uk]

peacefuloutrage

Seriously you folks back home in the US got it good, since you dont get nearly as badly nickle and dimed as you do here.

My friend and I talk about this countries politics all the time, since he knows a lot more he can give me details on all the wonderful events that have happened over time. Its beyond depressing let me tell you.

Witzbold

Black_Ops_19

TinyLightning

ManekiNeko

chaos242

Tei

Italian law says that
whoever consciously obtains or holds porn material made using people being less than 18, shall serve up to three years in jail and pay a fine of at least 1549 euro.
If the material is in big quantity, penalty is raised up to two thirds.
All of the above applies also when the porn material is made by using virtual images of people being less than of 18 or parts of them.
Virtual images are deemed to be those in which a graphic processing has been used, not related in part or as a whole to a real situation, but in which the final quality makes look as real situations that are not"

Think what the effect of this law might be and then hope that a law like this never crosses our borders: here it is causing havoc already, since the police is busy chasing owners of manga while they should be chasing real pedo porn.

Yatterman

onidavin

Oldest trick in the book (*cough* religion *cough*).

As I said above, what use is banning fake school girls when the real thing is still parading around?

Big ass tease + no outlet = big ass explosion

RPGr

No point in banning fake school girls when the real stuff is out there. We haven't even gotten to the "dates with school girls for cash" thing that Japan has. I don't remember the exact term for it though at this momment.

RPGr