freespeech

Like most people have been saying, racing is fun, but it's the presentation that sells the games.

indemnitypop

Sooner or later somebody's going to combine the diverse tracks and amazing graphics of GT with the ideal handling and visual customization of Forza, and we'll have the best sim ever. Meanwhile, here's a couple things I'm still waiting for:

1) A game that really captures car culture -- not just the Fast & Furious crap, but the whole scope: rat rods, vintage sports cars, weird Frankenstein-rigged imports with American small-block V8s, basically anything that Jalopnik goes dorky over.

2) A genuine diversity in cars. Gran Turismo seems to be the only series that acknowledges the existence of Japanese cars made before 1990 besides the Z432 and 2000GT, and muscle car representation never goes further than Chevelles and Mustangs -- don't hold your breath for a Super Bee or Torino Cobra or AMX.

3) A greater sense of character and rivalry. The thing about sports games and other competitive titles is that you know about the personae of Kobe Bryant or Alex Rodriguez (or, uh, Heavy Weapons Guy) and that makes it that much more fun to show them up. Most racing games that try to incorporate rival drivers tend to get cheesy, but get a good writer in to whip up a few brief cutscenes and it'll enhance the feeling you're not just driving against other cars, but people with personalities.

natepatrin

redfoxx

redfoxx

I would love to see more detailed race games, i was looking forward to the new Race Driver but now its gone the way of NFS series i will stay clear, i want to drive race cars, DTM, Aussie V8's BTCC etc, i dont want to drive a supra with 20" spinners.

Raikkenon

Gagamus

GT5 just hasn't came out yet ;)

MySoul7

For example, create a car for most games are based on many templates that you can change, instead of giving users the freedom to create truly custom paint schemes like you can on PC's. Also, most racing games are hit or miss. Motorstorm is fun to play but lacked many features, F1 is pretty bland on presentation, NASCAR 08 is so hard to play it's not worth buying, and Burnout is a blast but is quite frustrating. The fact is, I think most racing games that are made are made by those that are not huge motorsports fans, and therefore can't deliver the true experience.

Worst of all, it seems that gaming companies have decided that 2 player split screen is a thing of the past. There is no 2 player split screen in Burnout, Motorstorm, F1, or NASCAR 08. The split screen feature is one thing that makes racing games so enjoyable to play, yet for some reason gaming companies thing playing with the person next to you is not as important as playing with someone online.

dalejrfanfreak

Even though, being able to drive on tracks that the pros race on is cool too! For me that is an escape.

On the other hand, I like motorsports and I've done some very basic organized racing myself.

jp182

I completely disagree. Games are an escape, racing real cars for most people can only be acheived though video games. For auto enthusiasts, the more realistic a racing game is the better. It brings us that much closer to fantasy.

Other games, have the opposite effect, racing games (atleast the non arcady ones) are completely opposite. No I crave reaslism in racing games. Forza, GT are good examples.

Tuxy79

But now I love them again. I spend 30% of my gaming time on F1CE and GT4. What made the difference? Buying a Logitech wheel and a racing seat.

Trust me, it COMPLETELY changes the experience.

Bit I think arcade racing is probably the future. If only Sony released a more arcady F1 game with the ability to choose from 50 years of cars, tracks and drivers......now that would have been awesome.

DelSource

IF you take the best parts of Forza, GT, PGR, TDU, GTR2 and Live for Speed and roll it up in one, then we can talk.

zlimness

I just think we're inundated with choice with racing games now, and there is no good reason to keep playing. I'm about a third of the way through Forza 2 and the lack of tracks just makes it so tedious (race around the same tracks again just to 'level up' to access better races, on the same tracks). And whoever thought of endurance races was just a masochist. Actually did anyone play Le Mans 24? I always wondered if anyone did the 24hour race option on it.

TearsandScreams

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

Ever hear of TOCA Race Driver 2?

PlayerX

This game almost makes me wanna run out and buy one... almost.

Anyone know how hard it is to find used for PS2 or PSP, or is it still being sold?

PlayerX

Personally I do like racing games like GT, but nearly every racer out there is about going in circles.

g8or8de

Hundreds of players in the same city, driving a multitude of different and hilarious vehicles, creating ad hoc mini games and races all across the city with all the great brands and great graphics everyone wants to see.

THAT would be awesome.

cello

squidboy007

The last racer that I truly loved was F-Zero GX. It was fast, challenging, and ensured you never had a dull moment. Sure, the graphics were solid as well, but the focus was almost always in the gameplay, and that's what makes it great.

Today, it seems that every racing game I play seems to lack that same rush. Simulation games like Gran Turismo 4 and Forza 2 are now so realistic that they become stale very quickly. Open-ended games like Burnout Paradise remove one of the key parts of racers, great track design, and so races never play out quite as well as closed-circuit tracks do. Even PGR4, a game I was certain I'd love due to the amazing PGR2, suffered from a surprising drop in quality of tracks and events that ruined the crucial career experience.

In the end, it's hard not to turn back to the racing games of old because today's titles simply aren't as fun. I think designers should take a step back and simply perfect the brilliant racers of the past. Why continue to try to fix something that was never broken when you really need to learn from those previous successes?

Xenigma

Idiotic.

Pixelantes Anonymous

There is one thing i need to add about racing games buy could also apply to any game out there. Why do developers feel the need to lock the button layout to a couple of choices?

Most racing games have the same controls... E brake, shift up/down maybe a nitro boost. Its so anoying going from game to game and having to relearn the button layout when all the games pretty much have the same options. Freedom in that area of setup would help out alot.

Gunloc

The racing genre is suffering from a lack of good creative tracks. Look at Forza, Need for Speed and GGR. They have very few tracks. Even when a game boasts a multitude of tracks, a lot fo them are very similar to each other or variations of just a handle of tracks. I want to race in cities, in exotic locals, in all weather conditions and times of day.

I think racing games need a deep track editor and have the finished maps be shareable online. I think that would extend the life of racing games immersely. Also, custom cars are a must. I want to take car parts from different manufactures and make them into the car of my choosing. I want a Honda Civic with monster tires. I want a Ford Focus with Nitrus, just for the fun of it.

I enjoy Rally and MX/ATV games a lot because they give a variety of tracks and a numer of diferent vehicle types.

I think a lot of racing games are heading towards the NASCAR outcome. Boring, samey cars and boring, repetitive, lifeless tracks.

mlubczyk

My taste in racing games is still pretty much the same today as it was back when all i played was outrun and mario kart. I like TDU as well mainly because I can explore almost anywhere and if there were SUV's in that game it would be perfect. Also I'll buy any "rally" game over a forza type game because driving only on pavement gets old pretty fast for me. :p

Gunloc

Even with the G-meter, I still find something about the racing sim lacking. It's insanely evident if you play the super-accurate F355 Challenge (arcade or Dreamcast, your pick). It's near impossible to really understand what the car is doing because while it's crunching numbers, you have absolutely no feedback. Even the visual feedback doesn't make sense, no matter how photorealistic it gets, because there's just something not correctly reflected in most views that you can only get in bumber-cam view.

Let me make it clear that I totally love Forza and Forza 2, so I'm not hating on the genre. It's just easy to recognize the flaws with it, even for auto enthusiasts. Like I said, no matter how physically accurate they make it, something feels like it's missing - that driver's seat feedback. It takes a lot of practice to acclimate your senses to perform well in the racing sim, but after you put enough time into something like NFS Underground, where the car handles the way you expect it to (as opposed to the way it ought to), you have to re-acclimate should you come back to the big-league sims.

That curve of training your hands and/or feet - depending on your control choices - is daunting to most people. They'd rather go to Underground or Burnout or GTA or Ridge Racer because while the physics may not be physically accurate, they're mimicked well enough in the way that people expect them to work in translation to the game. That is to say, stuff moves like you expect it to. With visuals as your only cue, and the occasional rumble feedback, if you rip around a turn and don't go into the wall, people expect to be able to slam on the gas and just go, not slam on the gas, spin their tires out and boff the turn. Even PGR turns out to be a hell of a lot more fun to play for most people because it's got that delicate balance of mimicry to fake physics, but still do the things that people expect them to do.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Those are not racing sims. If you want racing sims play Live for Speed, GTR, GT... NFS is not a SIM its a Arcade Racer. Totally different genre of games.

Piraat

roggles

thinkfreemind

Mischif

Frank

hungry_for_worms

Jamaces

Jamaces

Look. Racing games are nowhere near dead. They've just been sorted out into about 5 franchises that get it RIGHT. Gran Turismo, Forza, Project Gothem, and the colin mcrae series. Racing games are fine

NessD12

Me... I don't like racing games. The last non-Mario Kart one I actually BOUGHT instead of rented was Burnout 3. We just don't see eye to... headlight.

Hyuk hyuk hyuk. Tip your bloggers.

2NinjasTapedTogether

Shiryu

DarkGildon

Yamster

Nobuyuki

but after awile they start to get stale.

like someone said before if they had a sponsership winning or something a little less repeatitive than it would hold my intrest.

but i take what i can, cuz i love the racing games.

Dakobah

@Dresarius: There are sims, and then there are "sims". Simulating football doesn't require you to have the reflexes and abilities of a real-life player. Racing sims can and do, especially if you're using a wheel.

Billkwando

But by your logic, other sports games(Madden, MLB, NBA) shouldn't be selling that well either, but they are. Why though? If it's something people can do in reall life instead.

FIRST!!!

I think part of the reason I don't really care for non-arcade racing games is because I really suck at them. It's hard for me to transfer real driving ability over into a game where your only feedback really is what you can see, not what you can feel. I gave a shot at playing the Forza 2 demo and it felt like I was driving on ice. I'm sure it's realistic/accurate physics, but when you spin out on turn one several times in a row, you know it's not the game for you :P. Now I will say I DO have the full version of Forza 2 now, but not because I bought it. I still haven't opened it, though.

The second problem I have is to be honest, I really don't know that much about cars, so doing all the tweaking of gear ratios and all that, I have no idea what that does and it's not terribly rewarding.

darthmole12

Harteex

Knight-Zero

You can't have a truly competitive race when you know you are going to start in last place every time, it just makes me overcompensate by using a better car than the competition, which makes the game boring.

kuzuboshii

push eject

Now, all these franchises suck except for GT. I'm sick of all the new games being "Midnight Club" come up with a new idea, the free roaming city fad is in time for an oil change. Horrible analogy.

kuzuboshii

NFS seems to change up SO much that I'm turned off to it each iteration because there's a bunch of 'features' (I call them noise) that doesn't speak to me at all.

niche indeed, I just want something that's fun, with no blur effects, no tedious tinkering with upgrades, no dumjb story, no street cred BS.

Is it so hard to make a game that's just racing?

My search continues until I withdraw from the genre altogether. Not far off from that point.

sadkermit - soon to be banned for standing up to the ummm nazi.

ckranger11

My Empire of Pwnage is crumbling T_T

Dauragon C. Mikado

Flawless101

I think that the issue is that Wipeout HD isn't out yet, and that Burnout Paradise was awful compared to Revenge.

Dresarius

It would be a cooler idea if i could earn/win sponsorships etc etc etc. Which is what i always wanted in a "career" mode. Make it a career.

ArmyofJuan

Maldron

Not only do I find that you gain an appreciation for your cars' performance after driving the lesser classes and moving up, then learning how to handle the extra power, but now that the meter shows how many Gs you're pulling it's much easier to imagine what it feels like and handle the car more intuitively.

fuchikoma

sisedi

gamadaya

Power_Wrist

Retry

fuchikoma

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

-EDGE-

jfreela

Forkball