silentkill1314

silentkill1314

@pylon_trooper: When a Warhammer 40k MMO comes out, consider me outie! Until then, however, I'll just stick to Warhammer Online.

negative bro

mizeriq

The entire statement doesn't even make any sense because why would he want to make a WoW killer when he owns WoW?

Deozaan

nukem55

Mohican

GrlGmr

I don't think they are saying it would take a billion to unseat WoW forever, but it just might to unseat it right at this moment.

Zunnoab

You need to suggest one that is better, just don't say that there is one that is equal or greater than WOW and do not give an example.

I'm a WOW quitter as well and its hard but I played a few MMORPGs and see why WOW is superior.

Luckydan

mizeriq

What do you think they are waiting for to announce Diablo 3?

Terroris

Asterra

I whole-heartly disagree with you since you have gave ZERO EXAMPLES. There are better MMORPGS out there, like saying there are better Game Systems then the Wii. What is a better MMORPG with as much support as WOW? Name another MMORPG that gives you a major update to the game every 3 months, have prizes and so forth and actually fix bugs in the game weekly if need be.

@BobbyMcPresscott:

Bioware would not risk it, they make too many complex games. Think why WOW is popular instead of thinking of the bugs. They got non-gamers into the game, now name another System which has done the exact same thing as WOW? OH and your example of Star Wars Galaxies(SWG), I see you have no experience in MMORPGs at all spouting that out is like spouting Daikatana is the better FPS.

To reinforce what I have said, in SWG there were no quests or monsters. Jedis before the patch was the most hardest class to obtain and everything was massively expensive and out of reach and more complex compared to WOW. SWG was not a more interesting game, it was a stupid concept without any forethought. WOW was out by that time and you have to advertise as heavily as WOW to get people to try your game and by that time ppl are sick of SW your just gonna aim for a cliche group formula for failure.

Now Blizzard has said the max lifespan of MMORPGs will be around 10 years, they have hinted that they will kill WOW off but the popularity will never drop. You have to make a game that has all the additions which Blizzard are well-known for(they always update there software if need be and add new content).As well as make the MMORPG as easy and accessible as WOW kinda like the Wii. I can't see that happening as many companies are creating complex systems to try and outdo WOW.

Luckydan

No one with a functioning brain would deny the technical excellence of WoW, but given the same context nor could they deny the distinct lack of innovation. If you actually look at the launch timeline you'll find that WoW wasn't just a technically perfect clone of MMOs as they were at the time, but actually took a few steps back in terms of innovative gameplay.

WoW won because until it came out there was no such thing as an MMO without severe bugs (at least as far as current releases went). Star Wars Galaxies was originally a more interesting game, but like the other failures it was not a perfect game when it launched, so rather than the developers perfecting their vision SOE took total control and forced changes based on what whiny meatbag players wanted.

Unless a game's concept is innovative and perfectly executed upon release it cannot stop the rock. The MINUTE that retards start paying for your service, the people running the show are no longer obligated to pursue the ideals of the dev team but those of the short sighted subscribers.

Bioware is the only company I think could avoid these problems, not only because they could avoid releasing a flawed product, but because even if they are working directly for LucasArts they have a LOT more control over what comes of their game than some random dev studio hired by a bloodsucker like SOE.

If it costs a billion, so what. Bioware, when left to do its thing, could make every penny worth it. Problem A is getting the right company to do it, and problem B is making that a product people would actually bother to play INSTEAD of WoW. There are a lot of people out there who would throw dowmn their stupid maces for a lightsaber immediately if only a company could do it right. I put my faith in Bioware.

Bobby McPresscott

Blizzard doesn't seem set to make the same sort of mistakes SOE/Verant did with EQ1, so in a worst-case scenario, the inevitable future transition from old WoW to revamped WoW (let's face it: it looks like a PS2 game) may be the only real stumbling block in the game's future.

Asterra

NKato

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

NKato

another popular thing would dethrone WoW for sure . more popular than Warcraft that is ...

like a harry potter MMO LOL or something that its already made , just port it to the MMO world

seeing that Harry potter is the second popular book in all times , the first is the bible

hey , thats a great idea , an MMO about the bible

yoishiro

dozerking

dozerking

Chewbenator

No company in existence polishes their games like Blizzard. NO ONE. About the closest you can get is Valve, and I don't foresee them making a Half-Life MMO. The Lucasarts/Bioshock game *might* be able to compete, provided it isn't too niche. As has already been stated, the only MMO that will dethrone WoW is another Blizzard title. Period.

Beev

Yes, something will eventually be able to beat wow as it declines slowly...but thats when Blizzard with hit them with Diablo 3 or World of Diablo and remain the true king.

Sephiroth_FFVII

smallwang

Can you compete with that? Can you make a product in 2 or 3 years that, once released, will compete with the WoW of 2 or 3 years in the future? No. Seriously, no.

The only way to "compete" with WoW is to not compete with it. You have to provide something drastically different...

UltimatePancakeSensation

That is the problem.

Evil_Snow_Man

Tei

kyosen

Oh, I think it will be dethroned some day, but whoever does has to wait for World of Warcraft to loss popularity, rather than taking it on in its prime. I think it is safe to say that WoW's popularity comes from being the first such game in its genre to attract the mainstream, and if there is one thing that you can depend on about the mainstream is that said demography will not always be there to support your product.

WhoreofSpamylon

mandarin

skobar

The next big MMO

Either WoW 2 (think of the existing game but the whole story moved on a further 10 years.

or

Starcraft Universe

irnchriz

That said, if your setting out with the goal of toppling WoW, you're an idiot and will fail. WoW has the quality, the community, and the backstory. For an MMO, lore is crucial, and Blizzard has it down pat. Lore is why I'm still tempted to play SWG, even though I know through experience that it sucks.

That billion dollar figure is BS.

Just make a great game, and as long as it's adequately profitable, who cares if it's second. If it's good enough, it just may be a close second. And if you do it right, then when WoW fades it will be standing by to take up the mantle.

Spend your money making as good a game as you can, and then if it does succeed, if it does have a chance to beat WoW, then dump another hojillion dollars for to make sure it's capable of reaching those heights.

Maybe 500 million dollars is the amount of money spent on a game by the time it surpasses WoW, but it's just stupid to interpret that as "To make a WoW killer, you have to spend $500 mil."

Jawajoey

irnchriz

Cenobite

(Gee, the weather sure is nice in fantasy-never-going-to-happen land!)

Mire

In any case, Bliz arent stupid, they arent about to kill the hen that lays the golden eggs, and they know they want to draw out WOW as long as possible - hell, I even heard they want it to last for 10 years. HEck, even EQ1 is still played today, and their last expansion was awesome. People will still be playing WOW 5 years from now, and considering how much freaking time Bliz take to brin out an expansion, teh anticipation of new expansion conetnt alone is enough to keep the game going for another 3 years, at least.

WOW will eventually wind down, but chances are tis player base will be caught into Bliz' new MMO. They were smart to capture their BAttle.net fanbase and you can bet your ass they will do the same for their next game.

Other companies would be wise to look into alternative business models, maybe something along the line of Guild Wars. Those guys have been doing pretty well.

Daremonai

Zippidydoodaa

Cagny

Just gotta hold out, methinks.

Krackatoa

Chillblain

Wyld

It was made by a company known for quality.
It was based on a popular franchise.
Its low specs allowed it to be playable on a large range of machines.
Its casual nature allows those that don't often play MMOs to get into it.
Its fun... yes... you hear me, its FUN.

I have played every MMO on the market from EverQuest all the way to RF Online, and even Sword of the New World. Every one of them has held my interest for a month, at the most, before I went back to WoW. It has a sort of gameplay that once you get use to it, can be very enjoyable. When did that stop mattering?

WoW at some point will die, that is a given as everything dies. The issue here is when and how? Nothing so far has been able to touch it, not even games based on LOTR and SW, both of which are bigger franchises then even WarCraft, but don't carry the fun factor to really make people want to stop playing WoW.

I feel that only WoW will kill WoW at this point.

I am sure the fact I am saying something GOOD about WoW here might make people call me an "addict", it seems to be the popular thing these days. All I can really say is don't expect everyone to think the same as you and don't think that one guy on the forums pissed off about the game means the whole thing is declining.

ScytheRexx

Sinharvest

DeBurgo

Also, if you want to beat WoW just make a game that appeals to the lowest common denominator even more than WoW does.

testmunky

nomadder

darvos

jwestburg

Voteforme2020

Anyway, while games like WoW set expectations crazy high, it's not *that* hard to make a successful MMO. City of Heroes has never crossed the 200,000 mark and yet it turns a constant, steady profit. People forget, when WoW was new, just hitting 100,000 subscribers was a big deal.

Rebochan

For one thing. WoW has a diverse player base centered around epic level content. Raiding and pvping. Some people actually enjoy leveling and are annoyed when they hit peak level. Others loath it (me)

Wow will see a dip, but I don't think it will fall hard shy of a massive scandle, or simply they choose to end the game for wow2

huginn

But really, I don't much care. I don't play WoW now, so I'm not committed to being a "WoW player." There are lots of mumorpehgers out there now, and most of them have something interesting to offer. My experience has been that the "big" mmo's have consistently been the least interesting, least creative examples of the genre. The ones that try new things tend to get smaller, more mature player bases. Have you seen the chat in WoW? I haven't, not for about a year, but as I recall, it's not what you'd call enjoyable. Why in the world would I want to follow those people to whatever comes post-WoW?

Unless, of course, LEGO Universe really does come out on top.

etho

Rayonic

Billy Bob Joe

I have a feeling I am. Carry on with the discussion of WoW's eventual and inevitable decline.

Rubiximus

futurebiblehero

The key thing is that it's all community based. A lot of people hit the level cap and get bored of grind fest but continue to play because they enjoy the social aspect of helping guildies and interacting with others in a world they are familiar with.

Any MMO that wants to steal players away from WOW will have to convince entire guilds to switch over en masse, like many did from Everquest to Dark Age of Camelot to WOW.

rawg

Welcome to another 7 years of WoW dominance.

ostartero

fawrh

zerokoolpsx

Atrius

But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the next huge fantasy MMO is a Blizzard product, either WoW 2 or Diablo III.

sgthalka

But personally, I say build up an IP before you go MMO, jeez. Starting something cold turkey isn't gonna work.

NKato

R3load

dozerking

Billkwando

The point of all this rambling is that perception is huge. If publishers don't want to bother competing with WoW or funding MMO development, we might not be seeing tons of innovation or competition in the genre after the next couple of years.

Also, to answer the guy's point above about "why only fantasy?", it's because with fantasy you know what kind of game you're getting. It's a familiar premise. You know what elves and orcs and things are about. With aliens you're asking your audience to learn a lot more about your world, which prevents a lot of people from even bothering.

Huckleberry

stryker1800

Nayl

urbanbuddha

If you're curious, do some searching around for something called "Fantasia Arks". I've been working on it on and off for three years, and it's something I have every intention of seeing through to the end.

p.s. Don't expect to find anything outrageous like an ACTUAL game design document on the project. I'm not that stupid. :P

NKato

Ryadic

Activision throwing it's hands up is counterproductive and dumb but let's not diminish Blizzard's accomplishments with World of Warcraft.

NakedLunch

HoxtonHero

On the other hand, it can become boring with all the repetitive tasks that players have to perform in the endgame. That is a problem, though, that seems to exist in most of the MMOs out there, not just WoW.

A game that stayed fresh, fun, and engaging without requiring endless grinds would rocket to the top immediately.

WalrusAddict

No game should set out to top WoW, that's the wrong attitude. Making a good game that people will want to play is the first goal, and if it gains massive popularity, good for them.

dozerking

If another MMO is going to beat WoW, the company pushing it needs to invest in building up the entire Universe of their MMO beforehand and create a huge community around it before rolling out the MMO. This means non-MMO games and books. That takes years or even decades and by then though they'll be competing with the Starcraft MMO.

I don't doubt for a second that Blizzard's next MMO will be Starcraft related as Starcraft already has a huge following as did the Warcraft series.

Tepoz

Red_Uri

Asbestos_Underwear

Liopleurodon

We've seen the attraction to things like Second Life -- now, take the "magic" out of the hands of programmers and give those powers back to the people, remove the typical developer brakes that prevent user-made conflicts and a forced balance of power, and create a hierarchy of functions whereby players earn the right to transition from a player function to a world development function. Who needs WoW when you can create your own?

Do you remember a Tribes 2 called 'construction mod'? Do you remember the Half Life Garry's Mod? The Sims, SPORE? They all push the user-created barrier, but don't go nearly far enough to start a revolution that could topple WoW completely. People love to create - let them? Even online a*holes who do nothing but destroy would still serve a purpose (conflict, destruction versus creation) in this world.

KindaGamey

Despite it's rampant success, WoW is not a billion dollar game. For all it's success and profit, WoW should be a much better game, but it's not. In fact, I've played dozens of MMOs that offered more fun than WoW, but they didn't have the benefit of a froth-mouthed fanbase and an already known franchise to rocket them into the spotlight. Nevermind that it's the bastard child of Diablo and Everquest, people apparently just really wanted to play in the lands of Azeroth (which was really poorly defined until Warcraft 3)

Now, Blizzard is just doing what they've always done: Release a game, get success, nerf the game here and there so the online players stop bitching, release and expansion, nerf some more, and then repeat those last 4 steps over and over and over.

Currently, we've got a growing MMO market that's going to see the release of more action heavy games, like Age of Conan and Champions online, and we can only hope that it drags away enough players for the Koreans to go back to gold-farming in Lineage 2 and to stop causing so much legal drama of who stole whose epic l00tz.

For all it's success, WoW is a terrible game and it's an even worse example of an MMO, yet it's the most successful game in history and it just keeps getting bigger. I can only hope that it's popularity wanes much faster when the new players start to realize that they'll have to dedicate their lives to the game to keep playing all this epic content they keep releasing. Great idea, Blizzard, release an expansion pack that has an area for the obsessive compulsive players, and give the new players a few new dance emotes and everyone's happy, right?

ChrowX

BryanGuitarDude

Xerxes 8933A

It might take enormous amounts of money to make the next big MMO, but it is definitely going to take honest to God innovation, and that's what developers should be aiming for.

Gouki4u's avatar has a severe case of Jekyll and Hyde

Hermut_Werstler

deejsylvis

At this point in time however, I wouldn't try and go for the alternate Tolkien-esque reality, right now, it's all about whoever can get to sci-fi first that has a serious shot at beating WoW.

i_9

WillW

Knasher

This summer, I'll prove it.

Poffy

ThisCharmingMan

baked ham

Tizlor

let the two douche bag companies of EA and Activision fight it out.

kingrottenboy

Knasher

The game will eventually fade...in my experience (DAoC, EQ mostly) the second expansion is the one that usually kills the game. When Wrath of the Lich King comes out (this year or next depending on who you ask) that'll probably be the beginning of the end. Of course, the game will hold on for a bit longer, perhaps even adding more expansions, but people will probably start to leave.

Personally I want to try WAR, though I doubt some of my friends, who are die-hard WoW players, will want to come with me. I don't play MMOs without friends anymore (did that in high school and it ate my social life away) so I guess it'd be back to WoW in that case. Or just stop playing MMOs entirely. But taht brings me back to the first paragraph...I always keep coming back ;-)

Aeralindor

Roto13

majortom1981

RazorandBlade

WoW's success comes down to two things: pre-existing fan base, but not so much of one that canon was canon, and entering the market late enough to learn from the mistakes of its predecessors.

Slatz_Grobnik

I consider it a "gamer inflation". Cycles will repeat, no matter the numbers. You're wrong to think that WoW won't die. If you played you'd see a large amount of the player base already feels like it's starting to since around 2.3.

VileMethoD

You still have to grow and evolve though! WOW like any other game has a shelf-life. Will it continue for years to come? Yes. Will it still have life 10 years from now just like Ultima Online? Yes. Though it will fade in popularity, and a new project will become king.

Developers need to take those chances and keep pecking away at WOW. If they do nothing then WOW will suffer because no one is nipping at their heels just enough to provided quality content, and when WOW does slow down there will be nothing else of quality to choose from.

My best estimates is that we will never see a phenomenon like WOW again for a very long time. When this game goes down it will be done by many products of different styles. A more competitive MMO front. Even on the console end MMO's will become more prevalent.

So I hope developers do not heed this man's words for it could spell doom for the genre as a whole.

Figcoinc

SBB

Modus_Operandi

Darkedge

smitty1123

Sloopydrew

DarkGildon

unmarkedone

Modus_Operandi

ParadeDC

<-since release, quit 4 months ago cuz i was bored.

bored to tears right now but WoW has NOTHING to offer me.

dechire

I really dig this MMO take, though!

[jp]

+ Watch video

Jet Set/Grind Radio-style racing? Yes please.

pylon_trooper

Old-school Sonic fanboy

I think it'll be interesting to see what happens when WoW starts to wind down. Will an inevitable StarCraft MMO take its place as undisputed king, or will the MMO market share become more evenly spread?

Pombar

Like someone pushing a product more addictive then cigarettes...

TheSonicGamer

like most games carry life spans but this seems to be living forever.

like some of my friends say they have 3 level 70 guys

that would get stale to me.

Dakobah

Champions seems pretty darned cool. And I'm loathe to admit that a new Star Wars MMO sounds... interesting.

MMO =/= D&D-style Fantasy.

Arloknox

gamadaya

DarkGildon

Mike Fahey

Modus_Operandi

Old-school Sonic fanboy

Mire

P-Sheddy

Blizzard won't be able to please all the subscribers forever, and when the current subscriber base gets older and moves on from the game, it will be hard to attract new subscribers with better looking games on the shelf. It would be retarded to say that WoW could never be dethroned. It will take a while, but it will be taken out eventually.

Doomstink

HurricaneDave

ubiquitous

Why fantasy rules the roost is beyond me.

pylon_trooper

BloggyMcBlogBlog

Way I see it, one of two things will happen:

A company will put out a fairly innocuous MMO that will suddenly grab people for whatever reason and it will sky-rocket ahead of everything and be the NEXT THING.

or.. the MMO market will come crashing to a complete and utter halt due to a miracle drug that will cure people of MMO addictions... or some other more real, down to earth reason.

That's all. It isn't always about money.

MrBionic

gils0n

And that $500million - $1billion price mark was totally pulled out of his ass and is absolutely false.

brent_w

Kohath

Bon5ai

Modus_Operandi