PC gaming and secure seem a bit mutually exclusive, don't you think?

A secure pc is really nothing more than a console... so he's basically suggesting that pc gaming is going to phase out.

meandering_drivel

I go to the store. I buy HL2, put the disk in a computer without network, what happens?

sqlrob

I have an idea!

(This is only partly thought out)
Would it be possible for videocard manufacturers to make a hardware-based platform hosted from the videocard, that would span different companies like NVidia, ATI and Voodoo (do they still make cards?). It could work where each company's cards would only play games with the proper encoding as agreed to by the game developers, (they would play all unencrypted, older games though) so that you could keep track of the games, and even online downloaded games could be placed in a special folder on the hard drive (internal or external) regulated by the card's software.

Also, each manufacturer would create a lower-cost basic card that could get the main PC gaming duties done, in addition to their pricier cards. In honesty, it is the price of cards nowadays (and how quickly they become obsolete) that keeps me from purchasing the newest shooters(so pirating would do me no good). I think Microsoft would support it with their new interest in Games for Windows, and developers would be encouraged to make their games playable on a certain hardware platform(that includes the cheap cards), which should make the unwealthy like myself more apt to buy the games. I know that hackers (or are those the good guys and "crackers" the bad type?) would find a way to mess with their motherboards and cards etc. but I think forcing people into a hardware wall to pirate would discourage many people who don't have the know-how, or are afraid of tampering with their system(we saw it with the 360). Also, for those connected to the internet, it could act as a real-time updater, so that as mods find new pirate files it could be updated and blocked in real-time.

My idea is probably stupid (I'm just now learning about programming), feel free to critique it (nicely) ;)

DranktheLake

Overlord44

About the article : (smart)people don't want to spend 50 bucks on a game that has *any* chance of sometime in the future where it will be impossible to still use that 50$ piece of software. That will be the biggest question and problem with any system he is suggesting.

To the inane pirating argumenters. Most of you want to wax philosophical about huge macro problems with the system/industry/people etc when it can be broken down simply to
-people make stuff and want to be paid for it
-people are poor and can't/don't want to spend money

The reasons for either one of those points don't really matter. There are lots of different variables that can cause people to do what they do. Also, saying stuff like "pirates never buy games" is totally ignorant of the entire situation.

Disclaimer: yep I have pirated. It has varied from 'I have absolutely no money and I'm an unscrupulous college student that needs his fix' to 'I don't want to be burned again for 50 bucks on a game I don't like so I'll try it out first'. I do buy games, usually about one a month.

ehlaren

Goodbye, PC gaming. Nice knowing you.

(Actually, no it wasn't, it was goddamn shite, all the way from the config.sys/autoexec.bat/qemm fiasco, to the latest 'your computer is 2 years old and you want to run games on it? that'll be another $1000' debacle. Long live consoles.)

quen

if someone is downloading, it is a sign they want to play the game obviously. But if the game is only downloaded then they have trouble.

basseman

+ Watch video

mrDisco

Akin

Yin

Darkest Daze

Warik

DrLight

shadydentist

Wait, what's that? They managed to be the top seller for the week of Feb 22? Oh...

SilverStar95

And as far as I know, it's pretty hard to crack games on Steam, if not impossible.

Angrypasta

PsycheDiver

Allcars

I left PC gaming in part because of DRM(the other parts being the upgrade treadmill and release of unfinished software). No Windows box that I have will *EVER* have direct network access, which kills Steam and many other schemes. I also require that the program install and run without administrator access, to prevent unwanted things from being installed.

sqlrob

I really have to disagree with the people who say "if everyone pirates, there won't be any more games". To creative people, someone else taking credit for one's work is far more insulting than just copying it, and most of us are going to continue creating things wether we get paid for it or not. A bunch of my songs are available free to download, because I'd rather have people listen to my music than worry about forcing people to give me money for it. Granted, it's easier to keep making stuff when you can concentrate on it full time, but money's not the reason why we do what we do.

Then there's human nature. Most people are willing to pay for their entertainment. Many pirates are also willing, but they'd rather get it for free when possible. Sure, you can cry and scream and legislate and arrest, but there will always be people willing to do things you consider wrong. Everyone's got a line that they consider absolute, and they've got a "maybe" line. That line will move depending on attitude, how easy it is to get away with it (including things like cost and time) and how hard it is to get caught.

Prior to the internet, it was difficult to pirate entertainment. (This part is pure conjecture, take it with a grain of salt) Cheap knock-offs were more likely to undercut the originals. If Tetris was $20 and "Tetrix" was $10 and played the same, some would go with Tetrix, while the people wanting to take the moral high ground would spend the extra for the original. Then again, you could always go to a friend's house and play for free. Somebody paid for it, right? (By the way, that's piracy if you extend the definition far enough. That or piracy is just borrowing. Either way, that person probably never intended to buy it.)

The problem with monetizing ideas is that once somebody experiences one, it can't be taken back. The bank can reposses my car, but nobody can reposses the time I spent playing BioShock (or the mental image of Mickey Mouse or the mental scarring of goatse). All anyone can do is make it prohibitively expensive to make money off of it (copyright lawsuits) or make it prohibitively difficult to get for free. The internet has basically made ideas and consumer products into the same thing. It's just as easy for me to copy Bioshock for a friend as it is to describe it to him or her. When sharing (or piracy, depending on whether or not someone wants to make money from the idea) is this easy, the only thing really stopping people is their conscience.

Thanks to the internet, it costs nearly nothing to pirate creative works, and it's relatively rare to get caught. The law is on the creators' side, but it's difficult to get the ball rolling on it and even more difficult to determine if a lawsuit is worth the time and money. The best variable creators have is that of difficulty. Copy Protection schemes make it marginally more difficult to copy things, and they don't cost all that much. By adjusting that difficulty bar, creators can reduce the number of people willing to resort to piracy, but if they adjsut it too far, they also reduce the number of people willing to pay for the product. Eventually, a semi-optimal balance could be reached between DRM and piracy losses, but it'll require a realistic outlook on the part of development and distribution companies, and even then, it will change depending on people's attitudes and even game to game.

TL;DR version:
Crusaders: Your moral indignation will not stop piracy. People will copy things as long as they feel justified in doing so, even if the only justification is "because I can". Feel free to push for DRM and Copy Protection, eventually its use will even out with reality. Also, pirates will always consider you out of touch with reality. Deal with it. Without extremists, the rest of us wouldn't know where the center is.

Fellow sharers: Your moral indignation towards Copy Protection will not stop it. Your continued copying will, in the short term, cause more issues, but will eventually fix itself once distributors (who are more often the reason for oppressive DRM than the developers) equalize with reality. Also, you will never stop self-righteous people from yelling at you. Deal with it. In the mean time, pirate away. Without extremists, the rest of us wouldn't know where the center is.

tuba_man

as far as the complaints regarding purchased software being inaccessable once servers are brought offline, it gets a bit more tricky. the best solution would be for a company to make the decision that they were not going to make any more money off of a product (hahahaha, right) and simply put out a patch file that can be D/L'd and run to open the product up. it would require trust on the part of a consumer, or laws requiring this. the laws would be more favorable for situations where a comapny could go T/U, since they could be required to develop this 'patch' at the beginning rather that risk in not ever getting made.

valarmorghulis

Sober

sadkermit - soon to be banned for standing up to the ummm nazi.

Strangelove

Señor Vorpal Kickass'o

RawSteelUT

Were it as easy as you describe it, all of gaming would have been dead years ago.

RawSteelUT

Steam on the other hand makes me happy to be able to support the devs without a drm scheme so harsh that it hurts the game it's self.

Darkest Daze

Evangel

Evangel

If I felt it was okay for me to steal, say, a car? I really wanted it but couldn't afford it? I potentially would come up with proper justification internally and do so. However, now we're discussing psychology. Attitudes and values, mostly.

Señor Vorpal Kickass'o

You also make an invalid assumption that I would either buy, or even rent, one of these games to begin with. Do you somehow think by suggesting that, people would exclaim "You can rent games now? Hot diggity damn, let me head down to my local shoppe!" I'm aware, and your insinuation that I'm not is insulting. I simply disagree that it is a better alternative.

Señor Vorpal Kickass'o

Soriya

Soriya

Soriya

Gunloc

1. Getting games instead of paying for them.
2. Getting games just for free.
3. Getting games because they aren't avaivable.

1. Can't do shit about these people, don't try. And I highly suspect that the percentage of these guys is very low out all those who pirate. This isn't statistics, but it applies to everyone I know who pirates. These are (IMO) responcible for a small percentage of revenue lost to pirating.

2. Everyone I know who pirates wouldn't buy the game they downloaded in the first place. It's not a big stretch to think that a large number of people are like that. In fact, I would safely bet that most people in America are like that. These kind of people are entirely irrelevant to profits certain developers/publishers are crying about.

3. This is pirating (+burning copies and selling) in other countries, like Russia. I am sorry, but the NUMBER ONE REASON pirating exists in that kind of place (I lived there long enough and was in 5 different major and minor cities) is because shit NEVER comes out there on time. Vast majority of games that get released come up there months after.

The reason for rampart losses of revenue due to pirating is because most games don't bother for a world wide release. Guess what? Capitalism and thievery works by the book here - a couple of hacks will download the game, buy a large number of blank CD's, and start selling, selling, SELLING! And you know what? People will buy, because they don't care about where the game came from. They care about getting their game on time, when it's released. And if the actual develpoers/publishers can't provide the service, someone else does and doesn't share the moneys.

This may be an entirely wrong assumption, but as far as what I personally see, that is entirely the case. The real reason for lost revenue on PC gaming is failure to provide world-wide release, expenses associated with PC gaming, and shitty PC games. Why would the masses care about loyalty to the developers when it costs more then consoles and provides much less?

targetpractice

Tip - If a pirated product is a BETTER product than the one you are selling, you're doing it wrong.

Overlord44

DeusGear

Karlott

Windows asks me every couple months to verify that I'm still using a legitimate version. And if for some reason the authentication server is down, it locks me out and I cannot access my own data.

I have to purchase the same song a hundred times based on what media player I currently own at the time because of different formats and DRM.

This idea is a lot like communism: Sounds great on paper, but in reality it's a bad thing!

Deozaan

Gunloc

And DRM is a bitch, I love Stardock for having no DRM. This is why I will buy Sins of a Solar Empire (and GalCiv II) even if I will never play it. At least they'll run great on my PC and doesn't force shit onto it (i.e. Starforce).

Other than that, WoW seems to be holding all my attention.

Sober

I do know for a fact that CoD4 for is outselling the 360 and PS3 versions in Europe except England.

dozerking

This kind of nonsense needs to stop.

dozerking

Or better yet, bring your sweet games over to consoles. Please?

EdwinJ85

People want to play games on their PCs. Desperately. Maybe they just aren't willing to pay $50 bucks to a retailer to do it. Ad supported, baby! It's the future, these guys are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

KNau

People keep complaining about piracy etc but if these companies would actually put out worthwhile games we may not see as much piracy. When almost every single PC game released falls under 3 categories - MMOG , FPS , or SIM (ok some flight sims in there but...) You run a lack of creativity and want of your market.

There are a few single player RPGs on PCs now but they arnt like they used to be and we have nothing coming out like a console RPG its all almost D&D style stuff... The market is over saturated with games and alot of them are frankly rubbish. If we get down to it there hasnt been much innovation period to make anyone want to go out and buy the game....

Free trials for say like a 15 day period are a great way to cut down on piracy. Alot of us that do pirate games only do so to see if the game is worth getting or not. Like I pirated stuff , if it was good i bought the game if it was bad i tossed it out. This is because the developers offer no way of me seeing the game before it comes out.

If they did I wouldn't pirate the game i could use it then if i hated it uninstall it. This at least shows the gamers your trying to make some moves to better support them and give them some opinion of a game before they go out and buy it. I've bought some crappy games in the past which is why i started pirating them just to see..

linadragon

Witzbold

It's not "being an ass." It's fact. Witz has been staggeringly logical in this whole thing, yet naturally everyone is glossing over it. He's a talking penguin for Christ's sake. Much of this thread is arguing a just world point of view, while he, and I, I believe, are arguing reality and human nature. Why the hell should I pay full price for a subpar project? Why should I wait six months for it to get ten bucks slashed off? I'm still paying Too Much -$10 for a game that is barely worth it's weight in plastic.

I buy games all the time. My woefully small account statement will say as much, but I'm not going to shell out cash and support what appears to be a gaming company's cash-grab game. If I can download the game, be amused with it for an hour, which is often the case, I will.

That's how I operate. I'm not John Q. Everypirate and I don't speak for anyone but myself. And Henry Kissinger, but that's another story.

Señor Vorpal Kickass'o

failzmcgee

What asshats like Chris Taylor and the "holier than thou you shall rot in hell for piracy" bunch can't get through their thick fuggin skulls is that the shit that gets pirated won't get bought anyway.

fraggdragon

Thing is that if people can hack and make a WoW server emulator, im not sure that theres much more security in this idea. Its not like consoles are much more secure either. Just require more effort and in the case of the 360, not really wanting to screw around with whats already basicaly a time bomb.

Murrytmds

You know, I actually like that my achievements are recorded even if they're meaningless beyond bragging. I like the idea of a buddylist at all times, even in single player games, one that doesn't crash and conflict like Xfire does.

I really like the idea that there are sales, and that weak games get reduced faster than retail. I enjoy the notion that if I were to 'lose the manual' or the disk altogether, I'm able to legitly redownload my software and the company, not me, is required to remember my registration information.

I look forward to the day where steam is able to keep saved games backed up on the server side as well, sparing me reformat heartache or letting me continue on a friend's computer.

All PC games should be on steam, IMO.

As for the people who say 'I don't want internet on my -special- computer' .. why? What are you hiding exactly? What paranoid reaches of the early nineties do you believe that hackers will control your machine if it has an ethernet cable attatched? We're moving towards a connectivity state where there's world wide wifi and increasingly cheaper prices for basic access. Seriously, if you can't keep your internet connected machine virus free; it's because you or someone who uses your computer is an idiot.

Digital distribution is win. It doesn't -eliminate- piracy.. but it makes it much harder to do, and it has incentives against piracy.

Clockw0rk

g0ds gReeN

I have never been able to play my Civilization 4 copy because of the stupid DRM. Somehow it won't validate my disc. I patched it. Didn't work. I got angry and has never tried to play the same game again.

I have encountered similar problems on other computers when I have been asked to help. Sim 2 shipped with invalid cd-keys and so on. I just get pissed when something I pay money for give me nothing but trouble.

kjakan

I agree piracy is an issue, but I'm not sure DRM is the answer to it. I DO know that lower prices are not going to be a result of it though.

Tavin.

Tavin

Soriya

The industry doesn't do itself any favours though, eg. Steam charging more for games distributed digitally than you'd pay for a boxed copy. They could also do more to introduce ads or sponsorship within games, kinda like Mark Pesce suggested in his lecture on TV and piracy.

Jaffo

Witzbold

JamieA

Zantagor

chantron

1 - Crappy DRM. I install a game, I shouldn't have to hint down the disc so I can play it. This was usually solveable - but it needed the pirates out there just so I could play games I had bought.

2 - Crappy Operating Systems. With Vista on the horizon I decided to pay the MS tax with a 360 rather than a OS upgrade I didn't want.

3 - Crappy quality. The quality is probably no higher with console games, but with a fixed platform the reliablity you get for that level of investmentis far higher.

I don't know how bad Valve games get ripped off, but I was perfectly happy with Steam - if more companies were using it reason 1 not be so much of a problem.

As for the proposed solution - he can take his idea and shove it. I see no reason to pay for a game that I cannot play if my ADSL connection is cut off for three weeks because someone dug up the phone cable to sell for scrap.

Idlethought

That was the point of cable television -
that you would get quality TV, and no
commercials. That's WHY YOU PAID for
cable instead of getting things free over
the antenna. And then slowly they introduced
commercials, and never looked back.

It will be the same with games.
They will implement this with the promise
of a lower price point for gamers, but
let's talk about human nature for a second.

I have been alive long enough to know
what people are like. You charge the absolute
maximum that people will pay.

Sullyville

Soriya

With PC games, you usually could either- borrow from a friend, or buy from retail. There's no rental system and hardly any used PC game outlets available. How do you add longevity and a desire to purchase something that is so limited in scope?

WoozyB

Moonchilde

kwant

I'm just thankful that devs design PC games *at all* anymore. They lose a ton of money on it and it's a shame that so many feel it's okay to steal their hard work and not pay a dime for it.

unmarkedone

Zantagor

No, this feels too much like renting your game rather than purchasing it. If I decide to plunk down my cold, hard cash (okay, I mostly buy with plastic, but still...), I want my actual disc that I can put in my actual computer. I feel the same way about music, and ironically didn't really start to buy CDs until after I'd bought an iPod (and I _STILL_ haven't downloaded anything from iTunes that wasn't free). If I get a disc with my copy of the game on it, and I lose it or let it get damaged, that's my problem and mine alone. If my "copy" of the game gets turned off by some bean-counter, now you've just made your problem become my problem. The _ONLY_ way I could possibly support this arrangement is if, when they finally decide to close up shop, they send out e-mails to all registered "owners" asking them if they'd like a free copy of the game on disc to be shipped to them in lieu of being able to play it from the server.

@Kyle81:
Except they don't actually _LOSE_ money when someone uses a pirated copy of their game. They just don't _MAKE_ money. There is a notable distinction here. Noone has proven conclusively that pirate operators would have actually paid money for those games if they'd been unable to download pirated copies instead. Face it, there's a huge core of gamers who can't afford to game at all but for the fact that they can rent or pirate copies. Clearly they can't be counted as profit lost if they don't have the money to pay for the game in the first place.

Anyways, people seem to be missing one major problem with this setup. Either the game is stored on the server alone, and therefore must be downloaded anew _every_time_you_want_to_play_ (in which case people with slow connections will be unable to play, even if they have paid for the right to do so), or you'll have to be able to download a copy directly to your computer and simply log in to the server whenever you want to play (in which case + hackers = pirate copies regardless). Face it, the only proven methods of making sure that noone uses pirated copies of your game are distributing it as freeware, or not publishing it at all.

Purple Dave

Its a simple question of motivation: You've got people who do this as a job and you've got people who do it becuase they love it. Whos going to win out in that battle?

Take the HD DVD encryption key for example. Hackers cracked it and the key was released. They changed the key and hackers cracked it before dvds with the new encryption even hit store shelves.

Why then are you punishing your customers if all your efforts are futile?

chantron

FelicioLostHorizonPT

boots555

Exia

Soriya

FelicioLostHorizonPT

Señor Vorpal Kickass'o

Soriya

"Yeah, I'm sure people who pirate are going to completely change their ways based on a game being 30$ instead of 60$. People who steal will continue to steal as long as nothing prevents them from doing so."

C'mon now, don't be silly. Thats not what I'm saying at all. Sure, some people are thieves and don't give a shit. But those people will find a way no matter what. The only way to stop those people is to DRM the product so frakking hard that it makes the rest of us not buy it at all.

No, what I'm talking about is the casual pirate, the guy who wants to give a game a try, but isn't willing to fork over $50. Believe me, if PC games were more commonly priced at $30, there would be MUCH less piracy. I'm not saying PC games are not worth $50, clearly, many are, but I'm saying they need to find the right spot with the market, and I don't think $50 is it.

All that being said, anyone who thinks less piracy would lead to cheaper games is simply out of their minds.

subnet6

FelicioLostHorizonPT

wtf007

I also never said all pirating is good and fine, I'm with everyone else that stealing is bad but I think however that companies have in no small degree brought it on themselves.

Trying to sell me a black box that more than likely contains crap is going to make me want to want to look in the box to see if I want to purchase it.

Stopping me from using legally purchased software is going to make me pirate.

Those are the only two instances I believe pirating is ok. The rest of it does however does go with what Witzbold said. And I resent that fact that people are saying I'm evil because I want my software to just work and not require cracks or a pirated copy to function or that I have no right no know whether a potential purchase is worth buying or not.

Morberis

The biggest problem with the PC game market is the hardware cost. Most people can't afford a decent gaming PC. There are also the ignorant people who buy OEM systems from dell that suck. So they buy a game and they can't run it.

The other problem with the PC market is shovelware. Most ports suck and if they make shit ports expecting piracy well then people are going to pirate. If they bothered to make good ports I'm sure people would be more inclined to buy them.

There are always going to be assholes that pirate everything but the publishers gearing towards anti-piracy only drive normal customers towards piracy.

The industry is slowly making itself worse as the publishers fight the pirates with the legit users stuck in the crossfire. It's understandable why some people turn to piracy.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

ahem,
I dunno what this guy is bitching about, I've been pirating games since the early 90s and that hasn't curbed my want to purchase *good* games. I'm willing to be this guy has illicitly obtained software on his old P90 computer somewhere.
Piracy is and has been and always will be a part of gaming culture. Most people who like a game will buy it. If the game doesn't hold their interest for more than a couple hours then they aren't gonna buy it.

Such a simple concept..

Tizlor

@MrFatalistic: Thats my one gripe with steam :p Though you can copy over the game files and set it up for offline play on each computer, its still a pain. I never understood that, you can have 4 friends play on the same copy of smash brother but you can't have 4 friends play on the same copy of Unreal Tournament. I can't remember which game that did this (there were probably a few, and I think it might've been starcraft), but one game had the ability for you to install a basic LAN client of the game that allowed you to have your friends play with one copy. Thats such a wonderfuly fucking idea, I wish they still did that.

chantron

rennyf77

Soriya

and fwiw, I liked Uncharted.

mescalineeyes

PC gaming isn't quite like console gaming, there's more community, larger groups, and generally we're smarter about what games we want to fork over $$ for, not just Uncharted:Lookattheshinygraphics(nowgimme60$) for PS3. We also like to have a hands on before we buy, that goes back as far as shareware on floppy 5 1/4 disks. It's just harder to earn the PC gamer's dollar, where console players just like to collect whatever has some buzz behind it...

MrFatalistic

See:
[arstechnica.com]
[arstechnica.com]

Tepoz

oh and your computer can hook up just as easily to your HDTV as a console can. not to mention that most monitors are a higher resolution than most HDTVs, albeit on a smaller screen.

And requirements? I've spent 300 dollars on a new video card last summer in aniticipation for bioshock. I don't think I'll need to upgrade anything for at least 2 years.

chantron

RawSteelUT

I doubt the torrent for "Der Untergang" is getting anywhere near as many seeds and leechers as the torrent for "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End."

Same with music. Aside from some hardcore Japanophile-focused sites, you'll never see well-populated torrents independent/small label music. It's always Britney Spears, Linkin Park, Eminem and the like that get all the downloads.

Sort of proves that people DO want it, I say.

RawSteelUT

You could say the same with corporations, you have companies throwing out shovelware and sayings its great game and those with starforce like DRM to blame for a great percentage of pirates.

Morberis

Moonchilde

check out this article: [www.wired.com]

chantron

"well we should all just use Steam since I can install it on any PC and just log in to access my games I already paid for ETC."

but then am saddened by:

"...oh, but I can spend $600 on one PS3 that will last me years with no sys requirement headaches, but have to spend unknown amounts per year to keep my PC rig playing games at a decent framerate on my LCD that has a native resolution of 1280 and looks crud any lower than that..."

Affordability will always be the roadblock of PC gaming.

OrganicShadow

If you had any sense of reading comprehension you would notice I stated its an effect of HUMAN NATURE.

You fuck someone over, basically the first natural thought is fucking them over back.

The solution is not to prod the honest folks in the eye. Its to keep them honest as stated above. The more honest folks you piss off / alienate the more will go over to the other side.

IN MY ARGUMENT THERE IS NO FUCKING STATEMENT THAT SAYS PIRACY IS OK OR JUSTIFIABLE.

Once again I take you back to the whole situation in Iraq with once normal civilians turning into insurgents. Same shit different smell.

Witzbold

This.

The only reason DRM exists in the first place is that people generally have no morals at all. People who pirate all the time and then jump up and down in a rage when a developer/publisher puts restrictive DRM on their game or make it console-only are getting what they deserve. The only problem with DRM is that I'M getting what they deserve as well, but I've never been as angry at developers/publishers as I am with the pirating assholes. It's thanks to them and them alone that PC gaming is dead to everyone but Popcap.

RawSteelUT

Moonchilde

Wargamer234,Sieg Zeon!

Ok, here's where I have a problem with that. Games, movies, music, books (audio & text), comics anything in the world that an be transformed into a digital medium is on the "net". Anything that can be transformed into a digital medium is just as easy to "download and go". So has the entire entertainment industry the world over gone under yet?

How about this: Did producing and selling Playstation 2 hardware and games suddenly become unprofitable after the release of the first mod chips? How about after the easily added in snap-in mod chips soon afterwards?

This is the same argument that the RIAA and movie studios have used over and over again as a reason why their sales are contiously going down. Nevermind that the true reasons have more to do with low satisfaction with what's being offered by both industries. Apple iTunes is 2nd only to Wal-Mart for music sales for a reason. Customer no longer believe in the album and home movie buyers no longer want to buy the usual Hollywood schlock that is being sold with better version released a few months later.

I can see good coming out of what he is saying but not for the reasons he mentions. If it wasn't for the good clan servers having someone in charge of kicking/banning griefers and hackers, I would have stopped playing BF2/2142 at the beginning. The problem is getting worse on COD4 because there is no way to permanently ban someone as there is no central authentication system. This is why I am playing more TF2 on STEAM.

One more thing, if you want your games to sell as well as the Orange Box and COD4 on the PC then you had better make sure your game scales well on hardware that most people actually use. Also, don't release your game in a crowded season and never, ever release a bad demo.

Tepoz

And again another person that only sees pirates in white or black, no no ignore the fact that I've purchased everything that I regularly play, I'm a pirate and thus I steal everything and have no morals.

Morberis

What's killing PC? Howabout prices. Howabout I go to GameStop and I can get PS2 and Xbox games for $5-15 all day long, but all the PC shit is still LIST PRICE. Yeah, really gonna buy something when it never even gets discounted.

Bullshit, all of it is.

DankPanties

Warcraft 3 requires a blizzard server to play the game, and people came out with hacked blizzard servers to let pirated games play.

People have found ways around Steam authentication.

It's a never ending battle, and there are a lot more people on the scene than there are clever developers.

balls187

The major problem I have with CD Protection, or any protection for that matter, is that in the end I always end up cracking the shit myself because it breaks for one reason or another.

Some protection are unstable like hell, making the game crash randomly whenever it does its checks (Morrowind is a prime example)

Or worse, the CD Protection will just hang for 3 to 4 minutes without any feedback, only to come back at you saying to insert the original disc (Silverfall, Sacred)

I buy games, unless they have Starforce, then I don't even download them.

But what I hate above all, is being treated as a criminal even though I'm the one buying the game.

Stardock is doing it the right way.

Besides, how much money do you think those publishers are putting in protection, (A WHOLE LOT, licenses for those protection schemes aren't cheap), money that's put back on the price of the games they're protecting.

So, instead of wasting ten thousands on protection license fees, how about you use that money on making games worth buying that doesn't die from bugs because you couldn't afford a beta phase :P

Zantagor

What companies need to do is agree on one type of dongle. I personally never have issues with my Syncrosoft, and as I stated previously, it can hold a bunch of other licenses. I think its fantastic and I used to be totally against the idea of dongles. Its much less hassle than going through NI's online registration junk. At least NI improved it, but if they ever go out of biz then I'm screwed. At least my dongle will function even if Syncrosoft goes under if I take good care of it.

Moonchilde

I will never understand anybody's explanation of why piracy is okay, justified or whatever. Company's have a right and an obligation to protect their Intellectual properties. If people weren't such unethical ass hats none of this would be necessary.

Hengst2404

Obviously I've never had to deal with dongles, so I'm not aware of what they've already done.

xaksei

Its bad enough we get gouged as is with current prices and whatnot.

---

Overall you folks should know Im all for supporting devs. Hell I buy games that still sit unopened just because Im "supporting" a developer who I like.

What I dont like is when devs dont support the users / customers.

This statement isnt towards this issue in general, but more a personal standing of mine.

---

Back to the subject, Id much rather see dev houses / publishers go under 1 "umbrella" than scattering to see who can make the best "umbrella" wasting time and resources. Not to mention then could cause the problem of having too many different software that would be needed to be installed with each game causing conflicts on folks machines. (Worst case scenario granted) But you folks with common sense should see what I mean.

Over all once again Id like to see more publishers / devs work together with steam since it seems like the most viable solution atm.

Witzbold

RawSteelUT

Did I once say its alright to download all games for no reason? No I made qualifying statements that stated when pirating is good and bad.

Thats the problem with alot anti-pirating proponents, you take a viewpoint that declares everything is white and black and try to reduce the argument to that without actually using the same process on the companies trying to rip us off.

If you're happy with having to buy a music cd again after you've listened to it 6 times or put it in 6 different machines, I'm fine with that but I will demand more from my products.

Morberis

And don't immediately discredit the try for free model.

Tor, a book publisher is giving away a free ebook a week if you sign up for their newsletter. Last week they gave away Old Man's War for free. I read it electronically and the next day I bought it in paperback, along with the two sequels.

I'm not saying all pirates are like that, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who read Old Man's War for free and then went out and bought it.

So if these people who had no intention of buying computer games are pirating and liking it, maybe they'll go out and buy it. If not, maybe they'll tell their friends that it was a good game and they'll buy it.

chantron

axiomatic

I'm not even going to go into this with you as your previous posts state that you have no issues with pirating software.

dead_red_eyes

Moonchilde

@failzmcgee: Hardcore pirates will never go away. Ever. The trick is to keep casual pirates - the "download and go" types, as the article puts it - from being able to just "download and go." If you have to crack open your PC and solder mods to your graphics card and/or motherboard, piracy will be limited to an elite group of hackers, much like it is on the home consoles, simply because most normal people would rather not risk turning their machine into a $1000 paperweight.

RawSteelUT

"Pirates cost us too much" is not an excuse for crappy DRM
"The pirates bypass our DRM" is not an excuse for even worse DRM.
"The time before DRM is cracked" is not an excuse for even worse DRM.
"My company doesn't make enough" is not an excuse for crappy DRM.
"The game costs to much too develop" is not an excuse for crappy DRM.

See I can make up shit too, if you're just gonna say stuff without backing yourself up you're being nothing but a sheeple.

Morberis

You don't have to go thru anyone to put the cd in your car.

I'm not condoning piracy, I'm just saying that it's never a good idea to pay someone for the right to use a product thru them as opposed to paying someone for a product you phsyically own.

People don't seem to understand that if iTunes did, for some crazy reason, go offline your music you expire and you would have spent all that money on nothing.

The perfect example would have been Prey for PC but they were kind enough to patch the game before the servers went down forever. It's important you understand that they didn't HAVE to do that.

Dumari

Any authentication system for games where it is unplayable without being connected to the Authentication server is doomed to fail**. Even Computer Programmers fresh out of college can figure out how to sniff the authentication packets then spoof the authentication server.

PC Sales are suffering recently because of consoles, and the Bungling of Microsoft, not piracy.

**Exception being online multiplayer games. thats easy to authenticate reliably, and you cannot spoof the server because if you do, you won't have anyone to play with.

Eldragon

Actually, that shit happens all the time in 3rd world countries.

@Dumari:

Even when you own a CD, you don't really "own" it. When you purchase a CD or an MP3 track you are paying for a license that grants you usage rights. You never "own" the songs.

Makes me sad to see people in these comments condoning piracy. There's no just excuse for piracy. None.

"The game costs to much" is not an excuse for piracy.
"The game has DRM" is not an excuse for piracy.
"The game is too short and therefore too expensive" is not an excuse for piracy.
"I can't find this game anywhere" is not an excuse for piracy.
"Try before you buy" is not an excuse for piracy.
"I'm poor" is not an excuse for piracy.
"I have a family and can't afford things" is not an excuse for piracy.
"The game costs to much" is not an excuse for piracy.

@Xerxes 8933A/A:

Are you serious? Dongles fucking suck. The fact that I have to take some on tour with me is a freaking joke, and I also have to lug around an external usb hub for them. Dongles are nothing more than a pain in the ass. And Waves with their crappy PACE protection which has BSOD'ed many of my fellow peers. iLok with their "DRM should be good for end users too" ... give me a break.

dead_red_eyes

JimK

smitty1123

Witzbold

Yes I have purchased games after pirating them, and so have many other people. If you want an example take a look at Stardocks forums, they've had boatloads of people confess to doing exactly that for Galactic C