man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

He's an asshat and he's NOT going to be the next president.

MySoul7

Homage

someone has also figured out that education ISN'T JUST effectively taught by paper and pens/pencils and a few books with the vantage point of one author and the comprehensions only decided by the measure of a scan-tron machine.

Soldier_CLE

LordChris915

My issue with the speech and excerpts is that there is room for interpretation. That is where the militation comes in. Since Clinton's rhetoric on gaming has entered the limelight, I will also say that I really do not share in her wanton control of the methods for subcultural medium distribution (video games), and cringes at the thought of ANYONE messing with how or what I choose to become an audience of. Since this is not Obama, and since Clinton's choice of words is now brought up, I figure that I'd share in this part of the forum.

You know, I honestly still believe (on another, yet similar note) that gamers helped shape the outcome of the 2000 election, aside from the Republican rural and southern votes. The fact that Albert Arnold Gore III's running mate were Joseph Isadore Lieberman, who himself made a career in part of attempting to censor games and gaming, left a sour taste on gamers everywhere, to the point where there were gaming advertisements adding the "Tell Joe Lieberman what you think about censoring games" campaigns, adding their office number, along with another anti-gaming politician.

Politicians should remember well to know that gamers, in general, hate their pastime messed with, when there are far more pressing matters at hand. like the economy, the war, the national debt, and other big fish. Politicians (regardless of camp) should also remember that policy and not rhetoric is what the citizens want to know. I'd want to know what accomplishments were made by the candidates, what they have to offer to the table, how they will accomplish their goals, what contingencies they have to work with, and how they intend to repair the damages made in the last 7 years.

What I hope to hear from ALL the candiates before March 4th is the substance of their policies, and not the rhetorical speeches that tell me nothing, but what the crowds want to hear. It's scary to think that I have yet to see a decent debate where the candidates say anything that would give any true insight on how they'd run the country. It's not enough to say "Change", "Yes we can", or "Solutions", when they are not clearly defining themselves. Change... what do you plan to change EXACTLY? Yes we can... Yes, we can WHAT? Solutions for America... What Solutions do you speak of that will effectively remedy the U.S.?

We already figured out who's the Republican candidate. Now, we need to see what the Democratic candidates have to offer.

Soldier_CLE

@Black_Flame:When commercials with talking fruit tell me to go outside I laugh. When MGS tells me to take a rest I get annoyed.

@stranger: <-- What (s)he said.

@ratix240sx:
"Wow I can't believe there people still not actually reading the article. I'm glad they there are a good number of people with actual brains on here and know how to read. I think the ban hammer should be appied to anyone who failed to read the article including the guy who wrote it."

Best Idea Ever!

@ConstantCupcake: <-- What (s)he said.

@tajesmahoney: <-- What (s)he said.

@ProfWho: Actually, at this point I think Soldier_CLE has the makings of a decent litigator. Despite some early heavy handed vocabulary usage (though I Really need to read more...), through consistent & thoughtful reply I believe I got the point. After reading through all the comments, rereading this post and both GP posts, I see the relevance of Obama's chosen wording. Overall, this has made me think and ask questions.

@Soldier_CLE: It's carnival barking if we're lucky, lest we see more of this:

"When I am president, I will work to protect children from inappropriate video game content."

@DaiMacculate:, @samuraisul:, @ProfWho:
Although I originally shared your interpretation, the babysitting angle is as much a spin on his words as Tori's. I could just as easily read his quote as he's not talking about kids and video games, but parents and video games. He could be saying parents, instead of parenting, are spending their time watching TV and playing video games.

I'm glad I took a few days before revisiting this topic. There's much more going on here than my initial interpretation allowed me to see.

Donoho

I find your posted commentary to this thread to be very intelligently written, very independent of banner waving, and also well thought out.

Alas, someone has also figured out that education is only effectively taught by paper and pens/pencils and a few books with the vantage point of one author and the comprehensions only decided by the measure of a scan-tron machine. Visual and audio acuity happens to be one of many different kinds of engaging in teaching and education, and many tests have been conducted to the point where even the corporate world realizes this, when you consider that alot of brainstorming sessions have alot of toys laying out on their tables.

Again, well written :)

Soldier_CLE

I believe this to be a case of perspective on his part...

I think everyone has different and better ways of learning, as opposed to someone else. A certain catalyst that makes them Want to Learn. I have always been a visual man. I like to touch and feel and see. That's the way I learn best. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around something that I have never even experienced. I can listen, but it's really hard for me to learn that way; To grasp the concept completely.

So Video games, Anime, even Manga, are one of the catalyst, that make me want to learn(I was leery of any literature while in school). How you ask, well, they peak my interest by relating to real world concepts. But they did so through visual stimulus. So I guess it makes it easier to swallow the pill.

Public school/Government school was a horrid experience to me, as you can imagine.To me public school is only a reflection of our government, theres a lot of politics, a lot of talk, but nothing really gets done.

I will agree with him on one point though.. Parents do need to take responsibility for there kids. There in lays the problem. This is what it really boils down to.

For some reason to hear the possible future president mention something about video games.. as a problem. To me this is scary. He might propose some huge ass tax on them to dissuade people from buying and playing them.(Of course I could just be jumping to conclusions on this)

I believe a good start, would be focusing on the basics,And I do mean just the core basics.(Math,Science,Reading/History,Writing) And nothing more. And then by a certain grade, well say 5th, the student would pick a real world trade they wanted to do, the subject matter and studies would then pertain to and build off of the basics he already knew! That way the student, could prepare for real world jobs because he wouldn't have any pork to learn about, and be very prepared for that particular, trade or skill. Also, schools would kick out those who had no interest what so ever in learning. This way these kids would not be a distraction to those that wanted to learn.

Sorry about rambling. But my point is, Video games are not part of the problem. He may believe so, but thats just a bad point of view he has there as far as I'm concerned. It's parents. It's also public/government schools. They have a screwed up system, that needs to be corrected. I continue to read articles comparing are students to students of other countries. Were not doing to hot from what I am reading.

On a positive note, I believe the internet/broadband will help the self learner. Wealth of info at the tip of your finger tips.

Just my humble opinion.

--Core--

Now, for a slightly differently posed question:

"If a politician (and that also includes the other candidates...) uses subcultural formats in the rhetoric of their campaigns as a means for their nations plight, do they intend to make a policy involving those subcultural mediums, or is it just rhetorical speech for the sake of "carnival barking"?

Soldier_CLE

cheeseboybeans

You said If you think the greater issue at hand is media's perception of gamers and not the sad state of our democracy, then gaming truly has made you mindless underachievers.

And where exactly did you base this deduction? I'm curious, because I would like to see what exactly is your thesis on the matter. It's a tad broad of a statement and slightly overgeneralized. It kinda reads alot like the Republican rhetoric tactics of the 90s in the aire of Rush Limbaugh and G.Gordon Liddy (no offense).

Soldier_CLE

I do, however, ask that Barrack Obama clarify his stance so that there is NO doubt left in ANY way. Tori's thesis is based on the militation of his speech, and I happen to see it. I would imagine that most who practice law would be taught and/or trained in seeing militation in any discussion and/or arguement, and would take note of them.

I would ask (for those who do not see the militation in this thesis): Would it be so wrong for a person to ask that a politician clarifies it so that it doesn't offer any multiple meaning, other than his or her direct view on an issue?

Soldier_CLE

pikaboy259

His sentence is quite clear. Only when you start picking apart and isolating parts of the sentence and interpreting them without reference to the other parts do you start to come anything close to what he is being accused of saying.

ProfWho

1. So, if he doesn't explicitly say something, it means that he doesn't mean it? Do you go through life with that way of interpreting what people are saying to you? Are you a literalist? Do you REALLY think politicians routinely explicitly state what they mean?

2. About what I said about "we" and socialism. To be more technical about it, maybe socialism was not the proper word to use: it may not be socialism. So, I'll just say: in using "we" in this way, he is using it inclusively with no limitations (he didn't say "we parents"). When used that way, it means EVERYONE. I do not want to share responsibility for parenting "our children".

I pay attention to what people say. I consider not merely the words they use, but what they imply and what they leave *unsaid*.

Tuor

Deusfaux

I will also say at this time that I have also seen it in the popular view on Tori's thesis. While I can see that there is room to agree with what some of you are suggesting, I also contend that there is just as much room for Tori's thesis to demonstrate her underlying message. I happen to side with Tori on this partly because I can see where she is coming from, and without blindly doing so. On it's face, I believe that it can hold multiple meanings, and an articulate speaker trained in rhetoric does have enough command in his speech to imply multiple meanings if he or she so chooses.

In this case, I see the multiple meanings that can come from the exerpt of his speech. I also wish for him to clarify his stance in a future public speech.

It is not unfair nor unreasonable for a voter to ask of that from a candidate. It is, however, dangerous for a voter from abstaining in an inquiry or opinion if they happen to have that concern.

Soldier_CLE

Perhaps I should equal the commentary and suggest that it is also amazing what people start thinking when they take loose context only in one-sided interpretation.

Soldier_CLE

Anyone who doesn't see that needs to go back to school and improve their comprehension skills.

I love games and I agree with the man.

It's amazing what people start thinking when they take speech bubbles out of context.

kunio

Also, who said I was going out of my way to prove? I am saying that there is enough slack to mitigate multiple meanings from the lack of clarity in his message. On every candidate, I can also make the same assertions. However, Obama seems focal to Tori's article. When Tori (or another Kotaku writer) brings up another candidate, I will also make the same questions. I do not bandwagon or pull for either candidate, and remains on the fence. However, I also would ask Obama (if he were in front of me or otherwise reachable) to clarify it in direct terms. I do not settle for broad assertions, as politics is often swayed by multiple messages in the same sentence.
If it were Hillary, I'd ask her for the same. This also applies to Mike or John.

You asked for proof from Tori. I offer the mitigating and plausible reason:

We're going to have to parent better, and turn off the television set, and put the video games away, and instill a sense of excellence in our children, and that's going to take some time.

Seems plausible that he attribute plight to these examples.

Perhaps if he had articulated this quote, I'd not even have posted AT ALL on this thread:

We're all going to have to parent better, be responsible, get off our butts, and instill excellence in our children. This will take some time, but I have faith that we can do this, America!

maybe if he amended this segment with "We can start with...", I'd not be as concerned, as this gives examples, instead of implying direct cause to those subcultural mediums.

@samuraisul: I WILL NOT stop, because I can see where Tori sees it. Until Barrack specifically clarifies the issue without a shadow of a doubt, I will continue to see how there is room for debate on this issue. While it might not be in line with your view, it is just as reasonably valid till Barrack clarifies and certifies his view on the issue. Had Hillary, John, or both Mikes said the same exact words, I'd be discussing this point with their supporters. However, it were Barrack who said it, and I address his speech (after reading it over and over along with other speeches of ALL the current candidates.) There is NO spin as far as I am concerned.

Personally, I am humored... The irony is that I am not passionately involving myself in this discussion. In fact, (since the day I got out of the military) been very voiciferous about each candidate, and has yet to show any support for either candidate for the U.S. Presidency.

Soldier_CLE

[Obama called for] investments in early childhood education to close the achievement gap, but with an added emphasis on poetry, music and art, not just academics. Obama admonished parents to do their part by turning off the television, putting away the video games, and instilling in their children a desire to get a good education.

And judging by the blogging...

Are they seriously arguing that we trade in "a desire for good education" for video games?

If I ever have kids, you, yes, you "gamers", are never getting anywhere near them.

Gaff

ivxero

DaiMacculate

DioBrando

PsycheDiver

Chikebo

I still think, though, that Tori Floyd pulled some Fox News-style spin-doctoring with this article, though.

Homard

@moviebob: Really you get all of that from saying parents should take an active role in their children's education.

ProfWho

It's true that gamers need to take a break now and then, but it's not destroying America. In my opinion, the ONLY thing keeping America in the running with the technology of the world today, is our media: games and movies.

Aragashi

I asserted nothing. I merely asked a question, based upon a lingering suspicion I admitted to upfront.

"Can you provide concrete evidence of political bias in the majority of opposing comments here? If so, please do."

Of course not. That's why I ASKED :)

FWIW, as far as I'm concerned the bit about games is just a specific point of what seems to me to be a troubling undercurrent to Obama's whole boilerplate: The implication that citizens having too good a time or not being "productive" enough smells unpleasantly of a disdain for individualism... giving people a hard time for not using their leisure time for the betterment of "society" or "the greater good" is just a hop skip and a jump away from Collectivism, or the idea that the needs of The Community as a single entity outweigh the right to individual choice and freedom for the Individual. Now, that's not necessarily an invalid political belief, but it DOES run fairly counter to the basic governing principals of the country Obama wants to be in charge of.

moviebob

@Soldier_CLE: Some people never quit, huh? He didn't say gamers are underachievers, he said any PARENT that uses any habit that can become an unhealthy obsession (gambling, video games, TV, etc..)as a babysitter needs to not do that anymore in order to have an overall more functional society. Again I'll ask, what's wrong with that request? Please stop trying to spin his words just so you can defend Tori's irresponsible piece of journalism, for the sake of argument.

samuraisul

BTW, you have far from proven anything. All you have done is attempted to parse Obama's words to attempt to get an interpretation that comes close to Tori's allegations.

Remember, it is the accuser who should provide the proof. She has not provided convincing proof by any standard.

ProfWho

Being as I go to Law School, we learn this very early:

"It is not what you can say, but what you can prove".

I substantiated this in the definition.

Speaking of which, it is good to talk about the need to fix education. What do EVERYONE of the candiates have for a solution that is underlined in their political agenda as president?

Okay, getting late for my meeting. Talk to you all later this afternoon!

Soldier_CLE

Also, Obama does not need to clarify anything. His statement is clear. If we want to fix our schools, not only money will fix the problem. It will require parents to be more involved. There is nothing vague about it.

I am not telling you how to post. I am simply suggesting that if you want people to listen to what you have to say, be careful not to come across as "I am better than you." You seem to be treading close to that.

ProfWho

To me, I feel that the American public would do well to think in terms of the longterm. My biggest fear about the American public is that (again) we are too impulsive, and only think in the now, and that hurts us in the long term.

People talk about education, and most never studied it's infrastructure, it's strengths and weaknesses. People talk about getting up and doing something, and almost ignore why people do what they do. We are a country of convenience, one that spurs rhetoric and hallowed message, but less action about the urgency for civic duty or humanity.

I for one am tired about the talk of change. I want to see it. In my former profession, I remember the value of peacekeeping, and I remember seeing people from all over the World, and contrasted it to my last days in that profession, where we were occupying a country and dictating how to run it. For those of us who have been elsewhere and performed tasks for the sake of good, the last thing we want to hear are words.

That goes for ALL of the candidates. Even if it were John or Hillary saying the same thing, I would just as equally say the very same words about them that I did in reference to Obama's speech.

I am, afterall, a Moderate Independent.

Soldier_CLE

xBBx

DaiMacculate

Condescending? That's your opinion.

And I do mean that if he is using television as a reference, that he failed to be specific in his speech. He used television, not the shows, the genres of programs, nor the timeslots or channels, but television.

No less, don't tell me how to post, and I won't tell you how to either. :)

And yes, it is possible to scapegoat a majority. Often, the American public scapegoats alot of what happens in the United States over voter apathy, when some of their plight is a direct cause of their failure of personal awareness (financial, education, social, etc.)

And let's ask Barrack what exactly does he means! If he clarifies himself, it would certainly stifle my concerns in this speech.

Soldier_CLE

ProfWho

We could go on endlessly, I think the point is that we agree the system is fucked up, its just a question of how to fix it and if thats even possible. For a very brief time at the end of 2001 I thought we had a shot at moving in a different direction, but we all saw the potential of the moment squandered in a broader political and diplomatic sense and seemed content to let that happen, myself included. Maybe, just maybe, this year can be another moment of potential, I'm usually cynical as hell (like you, no offense) about such things, but for some reason like I said I like the Obama-McCain matchup more than any other in the last 10 presidential contests, and since we've apparently decided that separation of powers is for weenies and the President should have 3/4s of the effective power in our government thats the winner-take-all contest now ;)

Also @those still protesting: this article is going nowhere, if there was even a slimmer of intent at editing it or removing it we'd have seen it by now, its obvious Kotaku is content with it. I sympathize with your feelings on the matter, but I'd submit this isn't on the level of TubGirl or anything like that, which was the last time I actually saw Kotaku apologize to us for the content of a post ;)

DaiMacculate

If you could also refrain from posting dictionary definitions. Nowhere did I indicate I did not know the definition of subculture. You could have simply said "He is scapegoating all of them. Posting a definition instead makes you come off as condescending.

ProfWho

Since Barrack's (There I go again...) speeches are constructed in articulative rhetoric, it would suggest that Obama has enough command of the American English language to NOT leave any slack for the interpretations that can be given.

Historically, our current U.S. President left (and still leaves, due to the lack of command of the American English language) enough slack for political pundits to interpret what he has or is saying. That also left room for the demogauges of try to use damage control for anything unfavorable.

While the majority of posts suggests that their authors don't see it, it does not stop some from seeing it right in the face. Perhaps at a future speech, Obama could clarify his stance? I am sure that such an internet savvy candidate would have his campaign staff reading blogs of all kinds for the sake of political demographic polling...

But no less, if there is slack for interpretation, it is the speakers fault for not clarifying. I'd suggest letthe man speak for himself, and not blindly defending what you cannot see.

For others on here, I respect the opinionations, as they are well-thought, contructive and offers insight from the gamer, American, and World perpectives of the audience.

Soldier_CLE

I am moving to south korea to play starcraft all day and WOW all night with a south korean hottie that is better at games than I am. WHEEEEEEE!

Fuminsho

Can you provide concrete evidence of political bias in the majority of opposing comments here? If so, please do.

Homard

sub·cul·ture /v. sʌbˈkʌltʃər; n. ˈsʌbˌkʌltʃər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[v. suhb-kuhl-cher; n. suhb-kuhl-cher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -tured, -tur·ing, noun
-verb (used with object) 1. Bacteriology. to cultivate (a bacterial strain) again on a new medium.
-noun 2. Bacteriology. a culture derived in this manner.
3. Sociology. a. the cultural values and behavioral patterns distinctive of a particular group in a society.
a group having social, economic, ethnic, or other traits distinctive enough to distinguish it from others within the same culture or society.

My answer still stands on Television being a subcultural medium. My examples are clear examples of said subcultural medium.

Soldier_CLE

What he's saying is parents should be parenting instead of sitting back and letting the media/gov teach their kids everything.

Akin

It also helps corporate structures thrive, since it allows the masses to continue to not think, but act. It makes people the proverbial "cog" I keep mentioning, which makes me think that the power elite wants people not seen nor heard, unless you are a puppet dancing before the public. The power elite also wouldn't want to be seen either, and would rather insist on being heard ONLY in the right circles.

The harshest truth is that corporates do not look in the utilitarian aspects of the World. The investors (that means all of us that do invest towards our futures.) are seeking the bottom line, and that unfortunately means the erosion of the "good neighbor policy" that we once had in the States. Because of the current model, the United States is now groomed to not only be a "cog", but to now be subsistantly serving those who have.

When people are down and out, they'll bring out a candidate with messaiah proportions, and come across as genuine or even like themselves.

But alas, they are a puppet, with someone providing a show.

The question is, when will the public-at-large wake up and do what they haven't dared to do in the past(?): RESEARCH.

Information is only there for those who seek it.

Soldier_CLE

Now, that you have clarified which TV subculture is Obama "scapegoating." Is he scapegoating the PBS subculture, History Channel subculture, or more realistically he is simply saying parents need not to have TV and video games raise their kids and need to be involved. This is a theme that has been mention after every Thompson rant or Fox News lie.

TV and video games are used by many parents as a replacement for their involvement.

ProfWho

Soldier_CLE

Protector one

It really depends on the method or random. Anyone with a good sense of accounting or business math knows that there are ways to sway the algorhythm of random to where it may still lean in an oligharchist's favor.

At the same time, K Street would also figure out a way to corrupt the minds of the feeble, which is often the current case, given the amount of financial backing that they do now to the candidates-at-large (in ALL political offices.) K street spends alot of money data polling, so there would have to be a method of anonymity, regarding these selected delegates, and even then there's the factor of gossip, which would still make it's way to "K-streeters", as well as those who work on Connecticut Ave NW in Washington, D.C.

It would be nice... But in my opinion Americans in general fail to educate themselves on the issues, candiates, forum (at-large) and the ramifications of their vote (or lack thereof.) Americans in general also seem to vote in bandwagons and impulse, which is just as equally dangerous. I would love to see the day where Americans actually would take the time to question the underlying theme of the candidates and parties, and check the records and policies that the candidates and parties offer from their experiences in the level of Government they are trying to elect. Rupert Murdoch's news outlets and Gannett Media's newspapers show too much of a bias, but Americans are too mesmerized by the flashing tickers, pretty faces, shiny graphics and dramatic news music to take the time to see just how effective each candidate would be.

To quote the comedian Lewis Black:

"The are the Repiblicans, which are the party of bad ideas. And then there are the Democrats, which are the party of no ideas. And the only thing worse than a Republican or a Democrat is when these two pricks work together!

The Republican guy says 'HEY, I GOT A REALLY BAD IDEA!', and the Democrat says "AND I CAN MAKE IT SHITTIER!'."

Soldier_CLE

DaiMacculate

ProfWho

There are games though whose poor production values and repetitive gameplay make them less effective at increasing hand-eye coordination and the other benefits you've described, was my point. I just think you could go back through some of the Frankenreview posts here for "reviled" games and find people whose rhetoric against those games is not dissimilar to Obama's, if obviously not in the same context.

Again the main point is he wasn't talking to us, the enthusiast gamers, at all when he was making this speech. Maybe we should all email him and invite him to Pax or some other gaming event later this year (assuming he is the nominee), let him pander to us and see what it is. I can't believe if somebody sent him a rundown on Child's Play and such that he wouldn't at least think about it, especially considering its face time with many thousands of young voters in general, hundreds of thousands if you count all the Pax coverage here and on other sites.

DaiMacculate

Kotaku, you guys really need to fix this. It is so disappointing that a site that I enjoy so much is pulling Fox News standards.

ProfWho

I ask that, especially in a dated education method used in the United States that was not drafted by the US Department of Education, but rather the US Department of Labor.

Please clarify, especially since the subcultural mediums of television and video games are seemingly the popular scapegoat for the fact that parents are usually not around for their children these days, given that both parents are part of the work force, with certain social classes living subsistently.

Soldier_CLE

this seems to be interpreting that which isn't there. Whether we spend too much time in front of the TV, internet, or console is one issue. Obama seems to know more about technology than the other candidates and has proposed a lot of issues about that: laying down broadband cable, wi-fi, net neutrality.

I believe this quote was about becoming more active, and parents paying more attention to their children.

Was not impressed at all with how this article was presented.

tajesmahoney

I'm curious, would you be in favor of some type of lottery/jury duty candidate system where non-felons (and probably a couple other things, like if you've been committed at any point for violent psychotic behavior perhaps) of all races/social class/etc would be selected at random for each primary election (10 candidates per side starting the year before the election), and then we'd have final electoral matchups of 2 or 3 candidates, again selected from a lottery pool of 10 or so for each "party" that would consist of all different types of people? Its an idea I've been enchanted with since I read Songs of Distant Earth by Arthur C. Clarke, and I think in many ways it could solve many of the ills that you're describing and eliminate the need for more restrictive campaign finance laws.

Unlikely, yes, but its nice to dream ;)

DaiMacculate

He was talking about the education system, and how it will not improve until parents and communities really get involved at a local level. It was part of a theme about how change happens from the ground up. And one easy thing parents can do right now, Obama says, is to reel back young kids' video game addictions.

I was a young kid with a video game addiction once. Now I'm a reporter with a love for the video game industry and passive playing habits. (Loving No More Heros right now.) It didn't make me an "underachiever" ... But I do completely agree with him. Childhood video game addiction, when it comes at the expense of proper education and time with family, can be harmful; like too much of anything can be bad.

Also, your article has a factual error.

Obama was in Houston when the Wisconsin primary results came in. His "victory speech" which carried these comments was not given in Wisconsin.

S_Webster

Digimon-type games (and especially Pokemon) can teach a kid to organize, classify and utilize characters *AT* right moments. The underlying themes of Resident Evil, along with games like the Metal gear Solid series, spawn thoughts on [OMITTED SINCE ZOMBIES ARE NOT CURRENT WORLD EVENTS.] editorial opinionation of the game designers.

Soldier_CLE

No, I would NOT be satisfied with that answer, since I don't take away from Mario Party 8, Digimon and/or Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles. each of those still hold value in the development of people when you consider that Mario Party is a multiplayer game that can also have family, friends or strangers doing something together for the sake of entertainment, and also injects the ability to hold conversation while doing so. Digimon-type games (and especially Pokemon) can teach a kid to organize, classify and utilize characters are right moments. The underlying themes of Resident Evil, along with games like the Metal gear Solid series, spawn thoughts on World events, let alone the editorial opinionation of the game designers.

I did not just subject to myself to merely Tetris at my younger ages, and I fail to see how that helps current and future youth. I also played some pretty gory games when I were a kid, and that never made me an axe murderer, either. I will say though that games' hand and eye coordination kept me alive as a Soldier, and I did develop other skills from games that didn't require me to be "in the bush" to benefit from it.

Soldier_CLE

Lachoy

Americans these days, in general, are very impulsive and are easily swayed to act when they see something that identifies with certain social triggers, instead of mere civic duty.

I also identify that it is those same impulses that make for a very volatile precedent in electing one who would ultimately be charged with the executive powers in the American Government.

People like me are firm believers in the fact that there are a "power elite" cast in society that pull and push the strings to suggest how the masses vote, shop & think. That's why I often watch the amount of lobby money that goes to ALL and EACH campaign, as well as who exactly is backing the candidates.

It is also from these spurned thoughts that scare me to think of how a politician should tell people how to live and conduct themselves, when they too also lived checkered at one point of their lives. Being that I think independently, I am more concerned of issues, the policies they propose and how they intend to make them so.

So far, ALL of the candidates have failed to address this clearly, so I am left to see what they have accomplished on the Federal level (as of this posting).

On record, I am still on the fence.

Soldier_CLE

I can certainly agree that George Walker Bush was arguably the worst President of our time.

But the votes suggest that there were half and not the mass majority that voted for him.

2000: The popular vote went with Albert Arnold Gore Jr. by small margin by 500,000 votes.

2004:
Bush: 62,040,610 (50.7%)
Kerry: 59,028,111 (48.3%)

It were hardly a mass or vast majority for electing George Walker Bush in office.

Soldier_CLE

I'm annoyed at the Clinton's too for not running in the last election when they knew they could but they didn't think they'd win.

Back to games please. And don't mention religion or we'll hit 1000!

floppylobster

floppylobster

I'll remind you of this quote:

"Passion is politics is often one-sided" -Anonymous

Soldier_CLE

Oh, ok. I get it. Clearly it is politically motivated to point out when a person's getting words put in their mouth, when they actually are.

I'm not a big Obama "Fanboy", oh, sorry, I mean "supporter", but it is clear that those in agreement with the headline are just that: they agree with the headline without reading the quote or the substance of the newspost. Then they add their "me too" comment about "OMG, Obama hates games! SNARL!".

Clearly, Obama said that grown folks who have a disposable income and are more or less stable socially academically are underachievers. See, 'cause their parents are using Video Games as a crutch to keep them sated, their parents need to tell them to get off their butts, turn off the Boob Tube, and get to work. I get it. Obama's jumped on the "Man Child" bandwagon! OH NOES!

mjpm

With respect to Tori, I also see the leeway of Obama's rhetoric that suggests a scapegoat in the means of suggesting that subcultural mediums are the direct reason for youth's lack of productivity, when he does not seem to fairly balance the pros to those same mediums, and what they inspire.

Now, what the readers might not understand in MY posts(Clearly because of the merely dismissive and "red herring" replies that I have read thus far.) is *WHY* I am siding with Tori on this.

There are several reasons:

1. It is easy to put blame on a subcultural medium format as the reason for the US countries' recessive state of affairs, let alone why generations may or may not seem to understand each other's stints of nonconformity. (Again, look at the history of various expressions in philosophies, traditional art, movies, television, video games, music (among others) for the various references.

2. Obama's speech (And I have read several of his speeches several times as of this posting.) recurs the use of subcultural mediums as a means for youth inactivity. This suggests to the objective mind that Obama's rhetoric calls those subcultural mediums as "unproductive", and as such with little to no need in the means of societal function. I happen to disagree with this, as my thesis from life suggests that video games were a catalyst of my personal successes, and I am not in any way affiliated with the video game industry, nor any other subcultural medium industry.

3. Obama's rhetoric on gaming can also suggest a similar thought on what the famous philosopher and educator John Dewey wrote in 1897:

"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth."

William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906, wrote the following:

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual."

It also spurs to mind what John Davison Rockafeller had to say though his education fund (at the time of his living):

"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way."

President Thomas Woodrow Wilson would echo these sentiments in a speech to businessmen:

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

In those days, there were a thought among the industrialists:

"Government schooling is the perfect setting for the hive."

Obama's rhetoric in Tori's thread strikes me as strikingly along those lines, especially since today's youth are more expressive than other past generations.

What most readers also seem to be missing in knowledge is that the current American education system for the K-12 grades are the same exact as the ones of the industrial era. Obama's rhetoric (to me) suggests that he'd rather a child forego their expressive and creative channels and go about society as a cog.

For those of you who like to read as much as I do, I recommend reading John Taylor Gatto's book, The Underground History of American Education: An Intimate Investigation into the Problem of Modern Schooling (New York: Oxford Village Press, 2001)

"With questioning comes reasoning, and with reasoning comes understanding."

Soldier_CLE

simmo

jjrs2

It depends on what the context of the game is. Plenty of software out there than can help you learn many different subjects. You don't have to buy the "violent" stuff, no one is forcing you to. Just like you can buy a salad from McDonalds. No one is forcing you to get a burger.

Also, don't forget the many V-Tech's and educational shovelware around, that outweighs FPS/violent games by miles.

Chikebo

If gamers make a big deal out of everything, especially quotes out of context, how exactly are we as a group going to prove that we're the next generation of mature adults? Instead, we seem like whiny teenagers who are afraid mom will tell us to go to bed while we're playing Halo.

patach

questworld

I'm just curious... Of those of you who are sooooo offended by the very existance of this initial post, how many of you - be honest now - are MUCH less upset about the actual merits (or lack thereof) of Tori's post than you are about it's potential to do some sort of harm to the campaign of Obama The Hopeful: Patron Saint of Change?

Just saying... I get a strong sense from some of these comments that there wouldn't be NEARLY as big an outcry if the same post about the same quote was put up if the politician in question was Hillary, or Lieberman, or Thompson, or McCain (or ANY Republican for that matter.) This is a big part of what's put me off about Obama consistently, the fact that his supporters act more like FANS and treat him more like a politically-active mega-celebrity than a candidate for the Presidency. Young liberals especially should take note of this: The LAST TIME a Democrat rode to the nomination on a wave of starry-eyed youthful idealism, celebrity endorsement and musicians writing dreamy songs about him it was GEORGE MCGOVERN. And he got spanked by a rival who's unlikability makes Bush look like frickin' BONO.

moviebob

mcderek3000

mcderek3000

Yeah..because thats EXACTLY what he was telling you to do. Wow, people never cease to amaze me.

Benjamin Linus

unmarkedone

He is saying turn off the tv and videogames. Does he think television is evil? I don't think so. He uses it as a tool for his campaign.

Truth be told turning Americans are wasting too much time entertaining themselves.

I say play some games here and there, fine. But it's better to turn off the tv, kiss a girl, spend time with your family, excercise, volunteer for a charity, write a book, learn an instrument, join a band, go hiking, ENJOY LIFE!

Video games aren't evil. They are fun. But too much of a good thing... You know.

And I'm surprised the college graduate didn't catch the flawed line of rationality in this article.

krushjudgement

He is saying turn off the tv and videogames. Does he think television is evil? I don't think so. He uses it as a tool for his campaign.

Truth be told turning Americans are wasting too much time entertaining themselves.

I say play some games here and there, fine. But it's better to turn off the tv, kiss a girl, spend time with your family, excercise, volunteer for a charity, write a book, learn an instrument, join a band, go hiking, ENJOY LIFE!

Video games aren't evil. They are fun. But too much of a good thing... You know.

krushjudgement

Based on Quote-
Balance
Moderation

Based on (many) comments (I actually read all that came before mine) -
The ability to read past a headline...

Donoho

ankylo

Damn straight, Ashurahori. You're way off base in your analysis, Tori. He's not insulting gamers. He's insulting parents that leave their job to GTA and Bratz.

This is the kind of flame-bait posting that sent me scurrying from Joystiq. The cynic in me says there's no reason to pull crap like this than to simply drive hits. The optimist in me looks at Koatku's history and hopes this is just an isolated incident.

Please Kotaku, use more discretion if you're going to wade into politics. Like it or not you're in a position of trust in the gaming community, and your misinterpretation can be just as damaging as 'ol JT blathering about "murder simulators" on Fox News.

ckrueger

Sintariot

Pensador

Lots of people like to use his middle name as a way to make him look bad, or de-rail the subject. It's rather ridiculous. So when people see others using his middle name, the first thing they assume is you're a bigot trying get people to dislike him, because of his middle name.

It's never good to assume these things. But sadly, so many ignorant people have used this tactic, that it becomes old..and people start assuming. Same thing when people were calling him Osama. It's like really...that's the best you got?

Ne who, I didn't read the original post, so I might not even be saying anything thats relates to this site.

Benjamin Linus

aphex242

Nice to know the Hillary smear machine considers gamers a voting bloc.

Jimbo4

Spasmic

I don't think he'll be restricting video games with laws or regulations. If he does, you bet he'll hear from all of us.

But I must say, having recently joined the games industry and thereby being completely immersed in the video game world lately, it does feel odd to be here... while our country's military is deployed in other countries (Iraq, Afghanistan).

I see him as the most likely canditate to end all that bullshit. Which is the main reason I support Obama.

Highlander Wolf

Oh wait...a certain site made it big, by posting a skewed headline, that is not only misleading, but untrue.

Good job. = /

Benjamin Linus

ratix240sx

labrats5

DRaGZ

I agree with everything said in that Obama quote above. I think many American kids need more discipline in their lives and part of that is less TV watching and gaming. He didn't equate playing video games with failure. I think he's saying parents have to teach, encourage, and enforce discipline and balance in their habits and behavior. Don't let your kids do whatever they want because it's easy.

olanmills

mechawatts

godot

At best, this is an intentional misreading of Obama's statement in a pathetic attempt to get internet hits.

Ex_Omni

prince_albert

Squamden

+ Watch video

Watch this

Screw Obama He's the Antichrist Remember the movie the last star fighter video games are used to recruit people and should be introduced to Kids early they are going to be the future of medicine to train people no more cadavers or working on live patients till your ready he's just a uppity big eared goof

PatBuchanan4President

Really I expect better around here. I think next time Kotaku wants to bash Fox News for blowing a game out of proportion, remember readers, this is no better than Fox News.

ProfWho

ArticulacyFTW

con·cise
Pronunciation: \kən-ˈsīs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin concisus, from past participle of concidere to cut up, from com- + caedere to cut, strike
Date: circa 1590
: marked by brevity of expression or statement : free from all elaboration and superfluous detail
- con·cise·ly adverb
- con·cise·ness noun
synonyms concise, terse, succinct, laconic, summary, pithy, compendious mean very brief in statement or expression. concise suggests the removal of all that is superfluous or elaborative . terse implies pointed conciseness . succinct implies the greatest possible compression . laconic implies brevity to the point of seeming rude, indifferent, or mysterious . summary suggests the statement of main points with no elaboration or explanation . pithy adds to succinct or terse the implication of richness of meaning or substance . compendious applies to what is at once full in scope and brief and concise in treatment .

Soldier_CLE

dagamer34

Apparently Tori and I see this as having just enough leeway to be contrued as a means to gather votes catered against subcultural mediums. I respect that some of you don't, but I also know that sometimes the unpopular view may also hold merit.

Tori, I happen to see your view.

Soldier_CLE

Don't be overly sensitive of your rights simply because your potential leader is questioning the value of Entertainment over Hard Work.

China is the new global force. Second is possibly India.

Obama wants to put you in the right frame of mind, and on the right direction.

jason1901

We complain that our educational system is subpar, but the things a kid does at home also play a big part in their development and learning. And the fact is, nine times out of ten, a child learns a lot more by taking on a book than by playing videogames. Our kids are going to be that much less smart if all they ever do is crash on the couch and stare at the tube.

I'm doubtless repeating what countless others have said before, but despite being the gamer that I am, that shit needs to come in moderation.

SentientPudding

aphex242

Well said. *claps*

Benjamin Linus

Homard

Even though most everyone else has already said this, I feel like I'm casting a vote. The more votes there are, the less likely Tori will be to repeat this error in the future.

MrSmiff

It is easy to use demogaugery and broad conjecture to assert that you know what my "true opinions" are. But since you want to entertain that route, tell me: "What are MY true opinions on *the* issue?" Tell me, since I am interested in seeing what you deduced.

For the record, I have been consistantly on the fence on ALL of the current candidates. That's a part of being a moderate independent. Would you ask me to mention the difficulties and advantages of each candidate on the trail? Perhaps I should also mention the other candidates full names several more times to spell out the fact that I am no "party leaner"? (Though it seems pointless, since I have just mentioned in a previous post that I am a moderate Independent -- INDEPENDENT being the operative word.)

And it just so happens that some of us like using full names. Just as some like using just first names, some just using last names, and (I'm sure there is a demographic for this), just middle names. Interesting how there are some who get their panties in a bunch over the use of names in a fair way. Perhaps it'd be more fair if Hillary's middle name were "Aziz", and McCain's middle name being "Bin-laden"? Maybe if I just rename Obama as "Barrack 'Bob' Obama"?

@DaiMacculate: Ironically, though the same message, I can see where you are coming from. Okay, Last names only then. Maybe that will help clarify that I am indeed still on the fence on ALL running candidates? (We vote on March 4th over here in Ohio.)

@mjpm: I don't view Obama as trashing video games, persay, but rather using convenient rhetoric on a subcultural pop medium. US History shows that there is a history of politicians using subculture mediums as a scapegoat for youth nonconformity. I also feel (personally) that Obama (There, just the last name.) has not clarified that stance enough. The problem with the statement is that it leaves enough room to argue that he blames the medium (or at least makes the catylyst of youth problems a subcultural medium) for youth nonconformity, when the youth have always shown nonconforming traits since the dawn of man. The only difference is that it weren't till the last few hundred years that we started to take note of this.

In a previous post, I mentioned this, with various examples. Television were included in the examples. I believe internet should be just as equally added, as well.

@superbus: Speak for yourself. Unlike the majority of Americans:

-I own no credit cards.
-I don't use credit period.
-I started my IRA in my teens.
-I am retirement-aware.
-I have a pretty good sense of time management.
-I don't try to "keep up with the Jonses"
-I (so far) have managed to NOT take out a Student loan.

The problem with Americans as a whole is not that we are excessive, but rather that we are impulsive. I also feel that those impulses have eroded the American way of life, and endangers the American way.

Parents can teach moderation, if they learn/remember not to be impulsive.

Soldier_CLE