I know for myself it was the presence of titles such as BioShock and Mass (D)Effect that made me purchase my 360, however I went into the purchase fully aware that it would be a back up system used for short infrequent gaming sessions, the reason for this was simply the consoles inability to perform the very task it was designed to perform for any extended duration.

On the other hand my PS3 gets a daily workout spending three hours folding, of course that's the lightest workout it gets most days it's performing it's core task running gaming applications as of yet I haven't run into in reliability issues nor do I ever consider them when running Microsoft's little struggler.

pABSO

krunkjuice

@MykalBloom: somehow people are equating this excess of mediocrity with "better games"
Exactly.

cheeses

DarkSi

My Xbox 360 has had no problems aside from setting up my account. (Reclaing my gamertag took way too long), that should be taken care of.

ixalth

ceilingFANBOY

Gigith

Cupajo

Phenom88

It's the only way they could come up with such a low failure rate. If you mix in a batch with 5-10% failure rate with another batch with a 25-33% failure rate, then you very well could get a 16% overall failure rate.

Soldrak

Puff

L_K_M

LOL @ Schultz.

crashlanding

zanzibarlegend

zanzibarlegend

He was honest in not saying much about the newer batch as he didn't know but MS really needs to do a massive recall and overhaul to the design of the 360. Hell, if MS were to release an external DVD drive that could run games, I'd buy that just so the system would no longer overheat!

angry_gamer

Exactly one week later, my Xbox gets the "unplayable disc" drive error. I could still turn it on and play arcade games and chat and send msgs to my buddies on live but guess what? Indeed my xbox is broken. I called MS tech support and spoke gibberish to the retarded phone support AI "Max" until he set me up with a non-english speaking Indian customer service rep who kept repeating the SAME phrase "OK FOR THIS ONE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO THIS...." This nearly drove me mad because this idiot didnt know ANYTHING about the 360 and could ONLY utter the above mentioned phrase OVER AND OVER. After putting me on hold for 4 different occasions that lasted around 10 minutes each my phone call that I had placed to the call center has easily surpassed one hour long. I was so irritated with this rep that I started to make fun of him over the phone, repeating everything he said in a mocking tone, unbeknowst to him. But I guess he had the last laugh cause I'M the one getting screwed. I have to pay $125 plus tax to cover the out of warranty status of my xbox. ( my 360 didnt have the RROD, so the 3 year warranty does not apply )

A week later my replacement box arrives I pack my 360 in and ship it off to Texas to have it repaired.

Exactly 3 weeks later, my replacement arrives and i am overjoyed to see it. This means I get to hop back on Call of Duty 4 and rain airstrikes and get some flag caps in Halo 3 and also play some new arcade games Live had just put out! IM SO EXCITED!

Opening up my replacement box anxiously, I expect a new Falcon unit or brand new xbox, I look at it and it looks pretty new, look at the back of the box, manufactured on 1-26-2006. Oh OK i thought to myself this IS my old Xbox, the EXACT SAME XBOX I SENT IN 3 WEEKS AGO. im a little dejected. "So MS would rather refurbish broken down 2 year old Xboxs rather than replace them with a brand new one" Pretty dissapointed that MS didnt throw me a brand new Xbox I sigh and hook up the Xbox back up to the TV and plug in all the wires.

SURPRISE! My xbox turns on but NO SOUND and NO PICTURE is displayed on my TV. A little elated I figure this is just some fluke so I undo the wires, unplug the power brick plug everything back in, and make sure my SDTV/HDTV settings are correct, i turn everything back on and still no picture and no audio. I spend the next hour adjusting everything looking over everything and even hooking it up to my computer monitor to make sure it wasnt the TV. Nope, nothing. MS sent me the same broken Xbox back with an even BIGGER problem: I mean I cant even play arcade games on this now.

So without further ado, I'd like to welcome you home, broken Xbox that I bought in 2006 when MS manufactured fire hazard-causing RROD flaring disasters of a machine. Now you're just a beautiful paperweight that turns on and off. I think I'll stare at your pretty green light when you turn on and cry a little when I turn you off.

To wrap this up, I called up customer tech again, got the Max AI again, gibberish again, got another retarded female rep with a LOT of background noise this time. Told them my problem, and guess what you Xbox fanboys? If you have gone through the same thing as me, third times a charm! you get to send in your power brick as well as your brokeback console! WHOOOPEEE!

Capping it off, the absolute worst customer experience, the WORST console I've ever owned, and the WORST repair center tragedy ever, think about how much money you've plunked down for this f-ing machine and its games and also think about just what kind of corporation is behind this video game giant. With all the drama and trauma I've been through with this disaster of a white box, I'm more than ready to get a Wii or a PS3 now.

nvmemvp

flukielukie

NeoStarr

Kidding :)

Yeah, I've heard all around here that the fail rate was around 33%.

Which makes sense because all my friends who have 360's have had to refurb them.

Sucks :(

xMaverick

I waited due to the issue- but VF5 online was too hard to resist. I'll definitely sell it back somewhere if there's issues with getting the games I want in the US though.

arstal

Knukleur

FatherTed

The the most important thing I want to know is... what were you doing singing "So Long, Farewell" in the first place?

Vincent060

i know NOTHING... i see NOTHING..

relax_guy

Vidril

sloner

pridex

susurrate

xIvSlowDeath420

fillerbunny9

it has to be over 50% for the first year 360's

newer production runs should be less, but by how much???

dh4645

Correct. My first 360 red ringed 16 months after purchase. It's inevidable. If you bought a launch unit, it will not last. 100% failure within 3 years.

WoodyNvincible

MrSimoes

"None of my friends own a Ferrari" should lead you to: "A low percentage of people own a Ferrari"

"None of my friends have died of hunger" should lead you to: "Starvation is not a significant cause of death in my region of the world."

Consequently, "Most of my friends have had multiple 360's fail on them" should lead you to deduce: "A lot of Xbox 360's fail" or, "The Xbox 360 has a high failure rate."

It's not about statistics, it's about reasonable deductions.

baked ham

It's an online message board... not a term paper. Chill.

SnakeCL

drivenstorm

*smack* thank you sir, may i have another? *smack* thank you sir..

LeBaron

I don't own a 360 myself but based on what I've been reading all over the internet since it's lauch I believe the figure to be pretty feasible.

Hopefully, SquareTrade will release the entire report or the methodology, it'd be an interesting read.

LaughingCrow

none of my friends own a ferrari. that must mean no one owns a ferrari.

none of my friends has died of hunger. that must mean no one dies of hunger.

none of my friends are chinese. chinese people don't exist.

as fascinating as all the "my friend had 17,000 Xbox 360s die!" stories are... they really have nothing to do with the actual real life failure rate. at all really.

x23

My 360 still works fine. *knocks on wood* Of course, that may have to do with the fact I have minimal heat in my apartment and it's #$(*&#($ cold around here.

Slatz_Grobnik

I dunno who MS is trying to fool. Everyone knows their system is made worse than everyone else's.

chiefpoopingpants

You know, you're right. When it happened to my console, which served me well for a good year or so (secondhand as well), I didn't even care or get annoyed. I saw it coming maybe a minute or two before it actually Red Ringed.

It's a bad gaming time for me. My 360 is dead, my PC seems to not run games after changing to vista (videocard might be overheating?) and just BSODs me (if I actually get them to start, thanks to compatability). My DS got coke spilt on it and the d-pad has stopped working. I thought I'd go and play some GC, but out of the 50 or so games I have for that, I've lent out all the ones I want to play.

So, I'm on Wii, playing Twilight Princess again.

Fine with me. I do love Zelda.

Aimless

FelicioLostHorizonPT

cybereality

aslum

GOLD5

I would imagine their sample came from systems bought on those two sites.

MSUHitman

Thorax

CenatorC

MavMan

Anyway, My new machine has locked up on me twice in the past month. First time since getting the newer 2nd console in July. Both times, the console itself wasn't nearly all that warm. Both times my dsl cut out while i was playing cod4 or KUF.

I think those 2 issues i had were due to my dsl.

ManjiKengo

fuchikoma

Actually that's usually the case, but I know a half dozen people with 360s, and every single one is on at least their second system, averaging third now. I'm also not the only one here to find that.

You know, when you take the averages and consider how so many of the people who have had one failure have now had 4-8 failures, it's possible the real failure rate is closer to 300%. Seriously. For all the people who have one that never fails, there are a few people who have sent a few units back.

fuchikoma

One has to wonder at least a bit about the future of MS. Their entertainment ventures (the XBOX, the 360, the Zune, the 360 HD-DVD player) has hardly met with resounding success, Vista is being avoided like the plague, they have been spurned by Yahoo, etc. I have a feeling that MS is likely to reduce their entertainment division losses by gradually phasing out support for the 360 and concentrate on GFW, where they can at least attempt to salvage Vista sales. No wonder Gates got less involved. And, I suspect, the PS3 will become soon the next-gen platform of choice for developers because Sony is trying hard to supply them with better development tools, and they are getting more used to the architecture.

bornonce

artistpavel

FP_slomo788

artistpavel

@artistpavel: I'll support what Papabear said and add this: a fan is actually very dangerous for a console like the 360. It's not a biological entity, so it doesn't "feel" the wind. It only reacts to temperature. A fan won't decrease temperature, but in a closed room INCREASE it, because it has a motor, etc. If the room is open, it might make a difference depending on the orientation of the fan: if it pumps fresh air inside, it can prevent the overheating. An AC fan is another thing though. It does reduce temperature or keeps it steady. Also, like I said many times. Overheating is one of many problems of the 360. There's also, disc-scratching, random RRoD for no apparent reasons, broken power buttons, etc.

FP_slomo788

My first Xbox 360 RRoDed during really hot summer day, I learned the lesson and for the second one I bought a fan. I always turn it on with my console, and never had a problem since. Here's my air flow diagram:

[www.flickr.com]

I also think northern states have less hardware failure rate because of cooler climate (no jock).

artistpavel

H2oGatesy

Frank

Sailorcancer

FP Shindokie

TitillatedOcelot

Rather, the buying of the PS3 was a year ago. Not the crashing of Assassin's Creed, which has been out for, what, three months?

PapaBear434

baked ham

Arteen

I think the point is that at $350+ a pop, you shouldn't have to put it on it's side while a fan blows over the back and you do a ceremonial dance to keep your electronic device working.

My PS3 has crashed once, during a game of Assassin's Creed. A quick restart, and it was fine, never happened again. That was a year ago. By one year after I got the 360, I was already seeing the death throws of #2.

PapaBear434

It should be the sole reason to have the 360 at this point. Seriously, the first time I played it at my friends house, I picked up a bench and used it to basically knocked about a dozen zombies flat on their asses. Then I followed it up with dropping it on their heads. Repeatedly.

Combine that with the classic shotguns, chainsaws, fire... Oh, and a MegaMan arm cannon. It doesn't do much, as you pick it up from the toy store or the movie theater, but it sure if fun to launch little yellow balls at zombies heads with a strangely satisfying "thup, thup" noise of an air cannot.

PapaBear434

artistpavel

ShaggE

1... failed
2... failed
3... replacement for #1, works
4... replacement for #2, failed (RROD out of MS shipping box)
5... replacement for #4, works

So... 60% failure rate? Or considering I only should have had one 360, not had to buy a second when MS sandbagged me after #1 failed... I can't count that high.

omnibot2000XL

Roto13

TitillatedOcelot

MonkeyBiz

If you grew up with zombie films like I did, you'd understand. Combine it with the fact that sandbox games are my personal addiction, and now you've unleashed me into a mall with a million weapons and a thousand zombies and tell me to "have fun..."

Well, that's about as close to a digital sexy-spanking as I can get.

PapaBear434

Don't be sad for me. I have always preferred Sony's offerings to Microsoft's, but I usually buy both because they both have great games that are must-plays.

I can also understand the people that want two systems(or three for that matter), but can't afford it, and are stuck with only the 360. Pity these poor souls.

What I CAN'T understand for the life of me are the loyalists that are dedicated to the 360, and only the 360, and decry everything else. I mean, it has some good games, no doubt, but to defend it against all these things...

PapaBear434

TitillatedOcelot

Did you dislike Dawn of the Dead too? It's basically an ode to a Romero film really. The idea of killing zombies using elements around you is a simple but cool concept. I know when I watched Dawn of the Dead I thought it'd be cool to be in situation like that and see how I'd work my way out. The mall is just a perfect location for "creative killing"

LittleBigPlaneteer

MykalBloom

baked ham

OT79

Personally, the only reason I keep it around is for "Dead Rising." Trust me, if they ever ported it, or just put the sequel on the PS3, I would dump this thing like a hot rock (which is what the motherboard incidentally melts down into most of the time.)

PapaBear434

baked ham

ChiltonGaines

By the by, Kotaku/Gawker Media, it's really nice being able to see the post right above the textbox; great for proofreading. Thanks for that. :)

MykalBloom

The number of 360's that my friends and I have gone through is practically beyond accountability.

baked ham

TitillatedOcelot

PSN ID: Kadaj24

ceilingFANBOY

ChiltonGaines

ChiltonGaines

TitillatedOcelot

It was very kind of them...

Aimless

Witzbold

ChiltonGaines

Microsoft needs to do something serious about this, not just drop the failure rate from 33% to 16%. Why does my PC, Playstation 3, PSP, iPod, and laptop run fine when my Xbox craps out three times in less than a year?

Huxle

I wonder how many people don't know the difference between the two Red Rings. The full ring (4 red segments) is a minor problem that can usually be quickly fixed by unplugging and reinserting the power cord from the back of the box. The real "Red Ring of Death" has 3 red segments and means your box is hosed.

Highlander Wolf

Now I've already admitted that I didn't pay for this console. However I did pay full price for a near-launch 60 gig PS3, and I know that if I were going through this kind of problem with it, I'd be PISSED. I've read all the different methods that I should try to alleviate the problems on my 360, and all the various ways I can employ to diminish the heat in the console, but you know what? FUCK THAT.

For the price that other people have paid for the 360, I shouldn't have to walk around the thing like the CPU is stored on a layer of eggshells. I don't want to invite a friend over while I'm playing just so that there is someone to blow in the air intakes while the other person plays. I don't want to stand it up on its side, just to lay it back down again when standing it up stops working. I think when you plunk down a fair amount of change for a device there should be an unspoken agreement: I don't pour sand in your inner workings, and you don't crash when I look at you funny. It's not a lot to ask.

Should I get the guts up to turn my 360 back on, and it does in fact red ring, I'll not be paying to replace it. I refuse to justify the cut corners of Microsoft, because they'll do it all again with their next console if people just keep replacing them.

TitillatedOcelot

TOWER_JUNKIE

oblivionatm

Paroxysm

mossberg

@PSN: Lp47: I guess that would have worked had I said "No game is worth $1750," not "What game is worth $1750."

@ChiltonGaines: Every time someone only knows of something because it was in Family Guy, a part of me dies. This was especially true when I was singing "So Long, Farewell" and someone asked me "Oh, you like Family Guy, too?" By no means should anyone ever insult me by insinuating that I like that show.

ceilingFANBOY

I'm A Gamer Type Guy!!

ParadiseEve

phloog

Actually, they would have a hard time doing that. The report contains their methods, and speaks of estimates.

And more importantly, Microsoft would NEVER EVEN TRY to sue them...because to prove their case in court, MS would actually have to DISCLOSE the damned failure rates, and they are never going to do that willingly.

phloog

Have you had any failures w/ 360 Witzbold?

or rather, how many?

ChiltonGaines

PSN: Lp47

phloog

Legendary GIR

Witzbold

also note that the six failures ONLY counted RROD - I had two instances when the E68 failure hit, and it was then that I discovered that my Elite with its 175W power supply couldn't handle the XBL camera AND HD-DVD add-on - if both were plugged in, not enough juice to run the hard drive - E68 code.

I own five PS3's now...I'm tired of waiting for the next return box.

phloog

"I know notzing...NOTZING!"

Sparx

15 here. I feel ashamed now because I've only heard of Hogan's Heroes from my mother and Family Guy. How old're you, if you don't mind my asking?

ChiltonGaines

Must be close to 100%? If find 30-40 (which is still atrocious) close to 100, then I'm right with you. Your's seems to be a bit too high.

Sorry if that came off confrontationally.

ChiltonGaines

semmem1

agree, in hardware failures, realistic numbers its more than 25%, but in a store here in panama of 17 xbox360 the got 10 of them its back for warranty since microsoft panama DO NOT SUPPORT their own products

eilegz

So yes, they're right to question this number. It's obviously far too low.

badasscat

Evo

i am having flashbacks to Xbox.

The Vampire Raziel

I think MS needs to hire whoever designs Nintendo consoles.

...And then I wake up, wishing it were more than a dream.

ChiltonGaines

ChiltonGaines

comedy

PTUSHA

ChiltonGaines

Well, I always had a fan in my room anyway because it helps me sleep at night, but, yeah, what can I say, I don't drop $400 on a system then purchase a ton of games just to treat it like crap ;)

iamnotdryad

ceilingFANBOY

FP_slomo788

I guess assuming make an ass out of us all.

ChiltonGaines

It still works in PS2s that are in better shape then mine, though. Mine is getting to the point where it takes a few tries to get things to load at times. The poor thing has been through so much. I'm sure actually playing all the way through some of those 100+ lap races in Gran Turismo helped age it and taking it to college.

ceilingFANBOY

ProsumeThis

goldwings

ChiltonGaines

ceilingFANBOY

Heyyou27

PsycheDiver

That's the thing; even if you take very good care of your 360 and watch how long you marathon it the system still has a good chance of breaking down. I keep a fan pointed at my system 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the system is under a sheet of glass to help disperse the heat, there are no other electronics within two feet of it in all directions, and I take breaks specifically to avoid overheating... and my first 360 still broke down. The disc drive stopped reading discs :(

But, yeah, there are a lot of things you can do to help your system out.

iamnotdryad

Lackshmana

FP_slomo788

@comedy: Calm down, Sparky.

@comedy: It's actually from the thing warping from uneven heating. Putting the system in the freezer won't change the fact that the heat on the motherboard is uneven.

ceilingFANBOY

FP_slomo788

PSN ID: Kadaj24

what happened to everyone who said that the failure rate was undeniably, without a shadow of a doubt, without question, hands down at least 35% and if you questioned said failure rate you were labeled as an idiotic 360 fanboy?

iamnotdryad

Yeah even then leaving it on all night should not cause a problem. I leave my PS3 on almost every night to fold. No problems and it warms up my room in the winter!

PSN ID: Kadaj24

There is no way that the number of 360s that haved failed is anywhere close to 16% - it is much higher! :D

Lstormy10

My friend sends in his 360 a lot because he insists on giving it 15 minute breaks every hour and a half or so, because it says so in the instruction manual. My other friend has had his since launch, played for like 10 hours w/o breaks consistently, and never had to send it in.

Anyone else give their 360 little nap times?

ChiltonGaines

Sparx

LittleBigPlaneteer

360 is not comparable to PS2. PS2 did not nearly have as bad problems as 360. PS2 had disc read errors after working for usually a couple years, not a couple months. I had my launch PS2 for 4 years before it had the disc read error problem.

The failure rate is the only reason I've yet to buy a 360.

PSN ID: Kadaj24

So, yeah... I expected it to be higher myself.

PapaBear434

If you were to only consider 360's manufactured before the implementation of the new chipset (like mine, which has failed once) I'd bet the number shoots up quickly.

DOC409

For every person that has a failed console there is many that have never had a single issue. "Console working as intended" isn't really newsworthy, so you don't really hear about it.

You do hear the very vocal community who is on their ten millionth 360 since last Tuesday, though.

Burguois, Teabagger of Olde

bangbangblah

Lackshmana

Grumpz®

goldwings

I myself am on my 3rd, luckily my 2nd died right out of the box so I got a straight swap at Best Buy in the first 30 days.

nullterm

ShaggE

Livid

the rrod is caused by the thing melting right? well surely keeping it in the fridge would work? i bet there would be fewer failed systems if they were all stashed in cold places

comedy

NikolaiFuroski

TwinkyC

Thanks for the catch, I hope the meaning was still clear.

Lackshmana