By the same token, however, many suggest, and have laid out quite logically, that religious beliefs (and culture in general) came about to reinforce already established evolutionary predispositions. So you cannot say, absolutely, that there would be no morality without religion.

graddy

Even among unrelated members of the same species, altruism still makes sense, if in a selfish way. For example, a school of fish or flock of birds. If a single fish or bird is attacked by a predator, the chances are 100% that the animal attacked is that individual. In a flock or school of 100 members, on the other hand, the chance that any one fish or bird is attacked is only 1%. Even if a flock or school is a bigger target, individually, safety increases. Of course, there is always a lot of jockeying within a school or flock to be in the middle.

Excluding examples like that, Game Theory, more specifically, iterated runs of the Prisoner's Dillemma, point to being selfish as a non-viable strategy, when both players have some measure of intelligence and memory. Even if in the short run, a selfish individual will gain, in the long run, the exploited individual will punish the selfish one, reducing the benefit. It has been found that in the majority of cases, the best strategy for iterated runs of the Prisoner's Dillemma, is to first of all, be "nice", to not be selfish, but not only that, but also to be vengeful, that is, punish a selfish player, but also be forgiving, to stop punishing the other player if they cooperate for long enough. Cooperation and charity is perfectly rational, since it ensures survival; and survival by any means is the bottom line of evolution. After all, whales still have toes, men still have nipples, and plants have green pigments, despite them not being useful or efficient; it's more that they don't get in the way. Charity, while it doesn't make the human species any stronger, it increases reproduction, since more people are able to survive and make children. And whether it's a gene or a meme, it's likely to be passed on.

onikuwagata

onikuwagata

Gerald is an eighteen foot tall badger with pink and green fur. He grants wishes for worm sacrifice and is one of the more influential Gods in the Tenth Lair of Zoop. He is also BFF with Thor.

I heard that many are Gerald Atheists, but how is that possible when there's all these worms and Gerald foot-soldiers (regular badgers) about?
How can they refute such proof?
No matter, they will all burn in the Ninth Lair of Zoop, after they are called to the Deathzone!

TokeYo

But then the Fall of Man happened, and we were all screwed. I'm certainly a sinner. I don't want to be, but as a human I don't have the power to stop.

skrame ☆

TonyMcPwny

Y0URGOD78

Jesse in Japan

ArmyofJuan

i would also like to point out that it is Moses speaking, not God at this point. when God commanded them to go to war with the Midianites, he only said "Take vengeance on the Midianites for leading the Israelites into idolatry, After that you will die and join your ancestors."(Numbers 31:1-2) the taking women for themselves was Moses' judgment call. i will choose not to debate its morality, but only say this: if it were decided that Moses did the right thing because that's the way things were done in those times, then fine. if it were decided that what he did was wrong, then Moses sinned. the bible keeps account of many holy men's sins. well theres even a few for Moses: when he killed the Egyptian, when he struck the rock in anger in the wilderness(which caused God to not let him into the Promised Land). David committed adultery with Bathsheeba. Peter denied Jesus three times in one night.

this is why God's mercy is so important. because christians, jews, atheists, muslims, EVERYONE sins. no one is better than anyone else. but when we confess our sins to God and repent (turn away from them), He cleanses us of all unrighteousness.

the only reason i believe anything that's written in the bible is because i believe in the living God, and have seen him at work in my life, and the lives of others around me. i don't take everything on blind faith. i don't have to.

wow, it's late. (12:37am my time).

Crawl to China

Sorry but in 'survival of the fittest' it does not say anything like that. It means that whatever can create the most viable offspring is the best. In so altruism has been thought to be an advantage. Just that it is not very strong in many people because giving a bit to your kin is a good thing since it means your genes will be passed on.

datafox

whiskey

I'm a Christian, I don't hate homosexuals. I have gay friends, I love them, God loves them. He hates their sin. End of discussion about that.

Why is it that any Biblical related post at Kotaku brings forth religious debate? You can't debate religion. You can't prove or disprove an invisible deity. Get your heads out of your pants and let's discuss video games already, okay? Thanks.

Some of you guys just don't have anything better to do than shove your misinformed opinions down other people's throats with generalizations.

@Haggis:
Finally someone intelligent. Read his post, and kindly STFU.

thevengeanceoftheufo

unmarkedone

I'm a Christian, I don't hate homosexuals. I have gay friends, I love them, God loves them. He hates their sin. End of discussion about that.

Why is it that any Biblical related post at Kotaku brings forth religious debate? You can't debate religion. You can't prove or disprove an invisible deity. Get your heads out of your pants and let's discuss video games already, okay?

Some of you guys just don't have anything better to do than shove your misinformed opinions down other people's throats with generalizations.

@Haggis:
Finally someone intelligent. Read his post, and kindly STFU.

thevengeanceoftheufo

dowingba

The incest thing was just an example of how a taboo isn't necessarily illegal or punishable by law (I may have been wrong I apologize).

Honestly I dont see where society made it okay to be an ass towards your parents, I see it as the opposite but I guess it depends on where you live.

As for adultery, its good entertainment and makes for a good plot line but its still not acceptable. Otherwise it wouldn't have been called a "Scandal" when Clinton was caught doing the nasty with Monica Lewinsky. People viewed at as something wrong. People as in the society. When something isn't sociable acceptable it doesn't mean every follows those bounds, there are people who don't follow those bounds.

masterkeyes2

Cruithne

thevengeanceoftheufo

I'm a Christian, I don't hate homosexuals. I have gay friends, I love them, God loves them. He hates their sin. End of discussion about that.

Why is it that any Biblical related post at Kotaku brings forth religious debate? You can't debate religion. You can't prove or disprove an invisible deity. Get your heads out of your pants and let's discuss video games already, okay?

Some of you guys just don't have anything better to do than shove your misinformed opinions down other people's throats with generalizations.

Jeez guys.

thevengeanceoftheufo

Saith17

Idols, again, the popular TV show is built on the idea of creating false idols.

All these things are accepted by society, so your point is moot. Far from religion giving us these things, we have demonstrable thrown of the shackles of religion and embraced them. All socially acceptable.
Where's your religious influence?

Cruithne

idrisz

Barf#1

is it illegal to lie, to build false idols, to desecrate the sabbath day, to covet thy neighbours ox, to dishonour thy father and thy mother?

No, its not illegal, but they are still socially accepted by society. When you talk back to your mother and father and disrespect them do you believe you are in the right? When you lie does everyone give you a pat on the back and say you did the right thing? Incest (To my knowledge) isn't illegal but its still not socially acceptable.

There is a difference between what is legal and illegal and what is wrong and right. Somewhere along the line the two became separate entities, and I dont care what you say religion has formed a basis for our morales. You don't have to believe it and you can say I am wrong and call it bullshit but in the end its true and call me blind but I'll stick to that.

masterkeyes2

Games on the other hand might encourage the simple minded to do a lot of nasty stuff.

The comparison was flawed from the start.

kyaku00x

Says who?

That's a commonly held myth as far as I'm concerned, society invented religion, not the other way around.
Don't believe me?
Then riddle me this, if our society id based upon religion, then name me the ten commandments and explain which ones are commonly held to principles in society, any western society.
Go on, how many of the supposed ten fundamental rules do we hold to?

How many of our laws are based upon these ten commandments?

is it illegal to lie, to build false idols, to desecrate the sabbath day, to covet thy neighbours ox, to dishonour thy father and thy mother?

So tell me again, what did religion give to society exactly?

Where in the Bible does it tell me to respect my homosexual neighbour, to speak out against racism, to give dignity to mentally handicapped people and not claim they're full of devils?

It's one thing for you to have your beliefs, but don't dare come here and spin me bullshit about what you think are my values and where they came from.

Cruithne

Colwyn vs. The Beast

CyberG4

I_Hate_This_Place

Odin

This is the reason why I cringe everytime Kotaku posts a God related subject. It just opens a hell-spawn debate.

masterkeyes2

Barf#1

Seriously though, even non-Christians have tried reasoning with him. He can't accept that people have different views.

I_Hate_This_Place

idrisz

AceLosesKing

While there are quite a few traits in mice that follow the simple dominant/recessive rule, and thus make them viable for simple genetic studies, peas have a considerable number of benefits that mice don't, especially when considering things such as budget and space constraints. It is far easier to study thousands and thousands of peas than mice.

In addition, when considering the necessity of having multiple generations, peas require roughly the same amount of time as mice, around 60 days versus 50 days.

Faselei

Is that some kind of sick joke? Because if it is I am not laughing. The way I see it our issues of "morality" can still use some work.

masterkeyes2

Barf#1

"But I can point at human history for the last 1000 years that most of the atrocities committed in our history was perpetual in the name of God."

Can you prove that they really meant that they were doing it in the name of God? No you can't so don't even bother bringing it up. Religion, like anything else can be used as a shield behind there true motives. They don't even have to believe so long as they can use it to there advantage it doesn't matter. They could or could not have been doing it in the name of God, but we have no idea how to read someone elses mind and until we do its all speculation.

As for people asking to prove the Bible isn't entertainment. Well I don't really think I should have to. There are points in the Bible that also come up in other religions and historical text. To tell the truth I dont know how much of the Bible is "Proven" and really I don't care. Its like what was said earlier, it is mostly built on faith, not to say the events or real. But unless you acceept the events are true it doesn't matter how much evidence you shove under someones nose. A blind and stubborn person will REMAIN stubborn and blind. He has to make the descion to open his/her eyes and accept the truth. If not, people will always look for a way to disprove something, simply because they can not accept it.

On the note of Christians helping only the people in their faith. Please do not speak for us or me. Ever. Just because their may have been a prick you met who was a follower of the faith doesn't mean the rest of us are.

masterkeyes2

Tacobake

also slavery was support by every religious group in America. plus new and old testament accept slavery.

idrisz

Barf#1

Barf#1

Other relgious contributors: Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. Gandhi was a lifelong Hindu who derived most of his Satyagraha (non-violent resistance) through Hidhuism. Malcolm X was a muslim minister.

Really, the list goes on and on. As does the list of travesties committed in the name of religion. But you just can't say that religion hasn't done any good, it's just not true.

Strangelove

------------------------

It seems we have a few individuals here who were wronged by people claming to be Christians. What happened is that now they have this built up anger for anything related to Christianity whether it's justified or not.

Think about this: how much different is "I don't hate you, I hate your belief" from "I don't hate you, I hate your sexual orientation"? How about this: How is "Christianity has killed xxx of people" any different from "US/England/France/Japan/China/Soviet Union has killed xxx of people".

You need to actually look at what you are saying and how you are going about it saying it. What you are posting is anger and it's that same anger that you say you hate about the people you are railing against. I am beginning to think those accounts are from the same user.

Tepoz

Barf#1

thevengeanceoftheufo

SorenKier

-- Mahatma Gandhi

dead_red_eyes

You can't just ignore the fact the Mendel was a monk. He was living and working with the support of a monastery. If Mendel was an agent of evil, you wouldn't have held him up as an example of why religion is bad? You said Hitler was a Catholic and had Vatican support, but Mendel's role as a monk is not important? You're picking and choosing what to support, man.

Strangelove

idrisz

I never said it was completely historically accurate, or that other books don't contain historically accurate data. Comparing the bible to Lord of the Rings is a bit different, as it is a made-up world with made-up creatures, regardless of its allegorical qualities.

I don't ever recall defining the bible as nonfiction, all I ever said that there was a large number of historically accuracies. But claiming the bible as a work of fiction ignores its historical context, and is an entirely different animal than claiming religion solely serves evil purposes.

@idrisz:

That depends on how you define "civilization". The rule of law is integral to modern civilization, just as religion was integral to ancient civilization. You're telling me the Sumerians were atheists despite their shrines? Shit, Mesopatamian religion is the first to be recorded, during the Ubaid period starting around 5300 B.C., and that just so happens to be the cradle of civilization. You can cite ancient civilization, but religion was there hand-in-hand.

Strangelove

Sure there are parts of the Bible that aren't directly contradicted by historical evidence, but just because a city mentioned in the Bible existed isn't a reason to believe or claim that it's a valid historical account. Quite simply the problems with the accounts outweigh the number of times it's accurate.

Even if you just rule out Genesis (the world is undoubtedly much older than the Biblical account), all of the Exodus (no evidence to support it) and the resurrection of Jesus (please don't try and tell me there's historical proof of that) then Christianity would be barely recognisable.

tellute

the point is that Mendel would have comes to the conclusion that he discover without religion, probably faster.

idrisz

2) Gregor Mendel - A monk whose research developed the fundamental principles that would become the modern science of genetics.

There are a ridiculous number contributions, and I'm not going to waste my night on Wikipedia. It's obvious you're totally biased against religion, and you're completely entitled to your opinion. But you're completely ignoring historical fact as it suits your views on religion.

Strangelove

Therefore, even though you point out that lots of historical events may be facts, it still doesn't make the bible a non-fiction work. Idirsz is trying to stress that point.

keiichimorisato

And as an Atheist, someone is telling you what is right and wrong: Society - which is itself based on principles established by religion. Sorry buddy, but you just can't get away from it.

PiotrSkut

there seems to be a gap of 3200 years....

idrisz

How about civilization itself? If it wasn't for the work of religious institutions to encourage learning (especially after the fall of the Roman Empire), pretty much our entire civilization would be non-existent.

Oh, and where exactly did a group of people commit genocide (the eradication of entire ethnic group) in the name of a religion? Sorry, but not even the the Muslims have done that.

PiotrSkut

1) The rule of law, which is the foundation of civilization. Hammurabi's code is one of the earliest examples. Guess what? At the top was an image of a Babylonian god.

Strangelove

I'm a Christian, I don't hate homosexuals. I have gay friends, I love them, God loves them. He hates their sin. End of discussion about that.

Why is it that any Biblical related post at Kotaku brings forth religious debate? You can't debate religion. You can't prove or disprove an invisible deity. Get your heads out of your pants and let's discuss video games already, okay?

Some of you guys just don't have anything better to do than shove your misinformed opinions down other people's throats with generalizations.

Jeez.

thevengeanceoftheufo

Yes, but you benefit from the knowledge, systems, and customs put in place through religion.

If you grew up without knowledge of those teachings, you think you'd innately know right from wrong? Bullshit. Your parents didn't teach you anything? Your parents didn't learn from anyone? (And guess what? If you go back far enough, somebody religious passed those teachings of right and wrong.)

You learned from social conventions that arose directly through religious beliefes. As an atheist, any notion of innate knowledge should turn your stomach.

Strangelove

Genocide to reduce World population is not a contribution just letting you know.

idrisz

Yes, I'm aware of Lucretius' and Bertrand Russel's philosophy. (If you're going to plagiarize, at least cite the source.)

You can't really believe that the only thing religion contributed to civilization was the calendar. That's just utterly ridiculous, and barely justifies a response. The contributions of the various religions are a matter of historical record.

Strangelove

An overly simplistic view of a complex theory which has evolved (pun intended)since it was first posited. Experience teaches us that man succeeds more when he cooperates and shares knowledge, there are perfectly sound scientific principles for altruism. I don't rape murder or steal because I don't want to hurt my fellow man, I'm always suspect of anyone who tells me they behave in a civilized fashion because they were told to do so by their God, does that mean without the bible you'd act differently? as an Atheist, I didn't need anyone to tell me right from wrong.

Cruithne

philosophers consider religion "disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race."

only contribution religions contributes to the civilization was calender.

one of the oldest civilization in the world is China, and their religion is their philosophy, they do not have a major organized religion until recent years.
Buddhism was from india. and daoism is a philosophy.

idrisz

You're completely ignoring historical record and what's been posted. There absolutely has been archaeological and scietific evidence of people, places, and events. You've latched onto the story of Moses as impossible, but ignore the events, pharoahs, and places that actually existed. I haven't seen anyone in here claim the more miraculous stories to be absolute historical fact, but I've seen several completely ignore the factual evidence supporting certain people, places, and events in the Bible.

Strangelove

"That's good to hear. I'd certainly argue some of the other things you said in this post [such as "condoning" God; it's not up to me to allow God to do anything], but I'd rather find something to agree on."

Well as I've said many times to many Christians, even if I believed your god existed, I would still not worship him purely for ethical reasons. I just cannot, in good conscience, subscribe to the idea that 'might makes right,' sorry.

"The whole point of my original post was not to put down homosexuality, or to play up Christianity."

I realise that, I just think it's important to understand that just because you believe you're doing it for the right reasons, doesn't mean gay people are going to be less offended.

Alyxium

Despite what's being claimed in this thread here's no credible evidence by scientists and archaeologists to back up any of it (best examples the 40 years Moses spent in the desert there's not a single bit of archaeology to support that and there's no record in any Roman source of the census that supposedly forced Mary and Joseph to travel to Bethlehem prior to the birth of Jesus).

I have no issue with people having a belief, but lets not try to claim any of it stands up as a historical record.

tellute

Yes, and civilization is largely the result of religion.

You can't play the role of an atheist/secular progressive without being intertwined with the theory of evolution. Man did not all of a sudden decide to be nice to one another. My point about Darwinism is that, by all accounts, man should do anything to succeed.

You keep arguing that religion is terrible, and you're completely ignoring its contributions to society, civilization, and the rule of law. It's revisionist history at best.

Strangelove

I believe it wrong to do such a thing to a 13 year old girl, and you make exception.

Y0URGOD78

That's good to hear. I'd certainly argue some of the other things you said in this post [such as "condoning" God; it's not up to me to allow God to do anything], but I'd rather find something to agree on.

The whole point of my original post was not to put down homosexuality, or to play up Christianity. There are a thousand different beliefs concerning how the two affect each other and intertwine. Even amongst Christians there are wildly different views.

My entire point was that not all Christians should be referred to as homophobes. Certainly, some are. But (what I and many others consider) the good word of the Lord shouldn't be referred to as "homophobic". Maybe my response could have been stated better, but I'm not perfect either.

To all those people who are mad at me for "subtly" comparing homosexuality to theft, I apologize. It wasn't meant to be subtle. :P

skrame ☆

It's Christianity I have a problem with, it's barbaric and inhumane and promotes intolerance.

Cruithne

Uhh... the problem is your moral law isn't objective. It's based on the subjective view of your god.
So if god decides killing babies is okay and helping the poor is bad... well then. It is so.
And yes, this could happen, and supposedly has. Just look at the differences between the Jews and the Xtians.

Anyway, I never said I think there IS objective moral law. 'Cause... well there isn't.

And I never said being an atheist requires you to value life more. As I said; atheism is a disbelief in god. No more, no less.
I just said that atheists are more likely to truly value human life.

Alyxium

Japan attacked the U.S. because of the economic sanctions as a result of its invasion of Manchuria, China, and Indochina. Hitler invaded Poland mainly because of an aggressive, expansionist foreign policy and because he wanted to build a rail system from Danzig to Germany but was denied by the Polish government.

Strangelove

Obviously, you have many misconceptions about Atheism. School yourself here :

[fora.tv]

dead_red_eyes

idrisz

As I said, many atheists are great people. But their beliefs don't require them to respect life or the rights of others, because there is no such thing as moral truth. An atheist who believes in objective moral values is inherently contradictory.

SuperPope

@Cruithne: tell me where it says to rape thy neighbour

You really want me to tell you?
Hey it's your holy book, don't you know what it says?
Well since i'm feeling generous, try this passage for size:

Numbers 31:17-18

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

So there you have it, all the women children, that would be young girls, they are instructed to keep alive for themselves as sexual playthings.

Now I already know what we'll get in response to these passages, we'll get told that we need to look at it in context, though what context makes rape and war crimes permissible I do not know. or else, we'll be told that that was the old testament, not the new, and in the same breath we hear the ten commandments from the old testament are still relevant, they pick and choose as they go along.

Cruithne

I_Hate_This_Place

idrisz

the Enabling Act that allow Hitler unlimited power was pushed through with help from Catholic Center Party in Germany. 3 months after the Act was passed, Vatican and Hitler signed an agreement that for every bishop to take possession of dioceses in Germany they have to swear a oath of fealty to Hitler.

idrisz

It's as simple as this: Different people believe in different things. It doesn't hurt you in any way if people have beliefs that are different from yours. Arguing and hair-pulling accomplishes nothing.

People have been having this same arguement for thousands of years, and not a single thing has been accomplished by it.

Stop trying to justify your faith. Nobody but you can tell you what you believe in.

ShaggE

Oh righhhhht.. you hate the sin not the sinner. I'm sure the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are happy for that distinction.

And your damn right I have anger issues. By not speaking out against homophobia, you're condoning it.
And I'm fed up of the religious telling me to respect their beliefs, when they fail to do the same for other beliefs that are just as irrational.

I'm fed up of living in a world where I am considered evil and amoral for refusing to ignore the obvious.
And I'm fed up with Xtians who use the same ignorant, refuted arguments over and over again.
So you're right, I am angry.

"It's not irrational to think that something is morally objectionable, and I don't wish any extreme punishment on those who are homosexuals"

It's irrational when that belief is based on ignorance. And no... you don't wish any extreme punishment on them... you just condone a god who condemns them to eternal hellfire.

"Stop being a homophobe? But I don't have an irrational fear of homosexuals. "

Fine, you wanna argue semantics. I can do that. What you rather call it? "Someone who has an irrational dislike of gay people because some iron-age book, filled with ignorance and stupidity tells them they're evil, but who justifies it by claiming that they don't *actually* hate them. No, no, they just think how they were born is wrong and a sin"? What should we shorten that to?

"Wow. You're certainly tolerant and understanding of others. I'm glad you're not homophobic, or else the homosexuals would really be in trouble. I should kill myself because I won't debate my religious views here? "
As I said, I am not tolerant of consciously sustained ignorance. I am perfectly tolerant of the many people I disagree with over matters of opinion. Deists for example, my friends horrible taste in music for another.

"I was not saying that I would not protect my views in the world; I was saying that a video games blog is not the place to do so. As you said in your "bullshit" quote, they are "unprovable ideas". I was merely saying that I wouldn't get into a online discussion about whether Christianity is the right path. In the real world, I'd definitely discuss my views."

I took it to mean you would never debate your views. I apologise for making that assumption.
But if I meet someone who closes their mind to all doubt, to logic and rational debate, well... I lose all hope in them ever freeing themselves from their ignorant views.

Alyxium

You're completely ignoring the point, which is that religion has done a hell of a lot of good as well. I didn't say religion invented charity, but rather that the two are intertwined. The very notion of charity goes against Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.

Seems to me the vast majority of atrocities are the result of imperialism, the quest for wealth, racism, and manifest destiny. That is, if you count Hiroshima & Nagasaki, the fire-bombing of Dresden, Pearl Harbor, basically all of World War 1 and 2, Vietnam, the Civil War, the War of 1812, the French and Indian War, the First Barbary War, the Second Barbary War, the genocide of Native Americans, the Mexican-American War, the Cold War, I could keep going forever.

Again, religion has caused many problems in the world. But laying blame for all the world's problems at the doorstep of religion is to completely ignore all the good that is done.

Strangelove

I'm a Christian, I don't hate homosexuals. I have gay friends, I love them, God loves them. He hates their sin. End of discussion about that.

Why is it that any Biblical related post at Kotaku brings forth religious debate? You can't debate religion. You can't prove or disprove an invisible deity. Get your heads out of your pants and let's discuss video games already, okay?

Some of you guys just don't have anything better to do than shove your misinformed opinions down other people's throats with generalizations.

thevengeanceoftheufo

I_Hate_This_Place

So really that's a completely pointless arguement.

cocks

SzinDragon

God is often used in order to provide legitimacy for ones actions, that doesn't mean that it's God's will that their actions be carried out. That being said the Bible does say that he is the one who puts leaders into power, good or bad they are all answerable to him for their actions.

robinhood_0

My point was forgotten: Hitler was a Catholic in name only. He exploited religion as opposed to following it, and openly ridiculed dogmatic beliefs.

Strangelove

So yes, both video games and the bible can increase aggression.

You can find the articles detailing this research on his website:

[www.sitemaker.umich.edu]

graddy

can you prove without a doubt that without religion in our world that there won't be any type of charity groups to provide, food, water, health care to the poor??

NO!

but I can point at human history for the last 1000 years that most of the atrocities committed in our history was perpetual in the name of God.

idrisz

cocks

ncsbert

Hitler was raised by Roman Catholic parents, but as a boy he rejected some aspects of Catholicism. After Hitler left home, he never attended Mass or received the sacraments,[82] although Hitler did tell Gen. Gerhard Engel in 1941, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

Throughout his life, Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and a belief in Jesus Christ.[83] In his speeches and publications Hitler even spoke of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice".[84][85] His private statements, as reported by his intimates, are more mixed, showing Hitler as a religious man but critical of traditional Christianity.[86] However, in contrast to other Nazi leaders, Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or neo-paganism,[86] and ridiculed such beliefs in Mein Kampf.[87] Rather, Hitler advocated a "Positive Christianity",[88] a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Strangelove

Its wrong! Things may have worked that way back in the day, but its still wrong. We the people of today have the greater morality! Don't give away your greater morality to blind faith!

Y0URGOD78

Bullshit. If anything atheists value human life far more than theists. After all, believing that this is all we've got, and their is no afterlife makes a person far more likely to see life as an incredibly precious gift not to be wasted.
Unlike someone who thinks that heaven/hell/whatever awaits after death.

And the idea that killing is against xtian beliefs? Have you read the bible?
God loves killing (and foreskins oddly enough), he commits genocide all the time, is ALWAYS behind the jewish peoples wars against their enemies and constantly condones wanton slaughter.
Jesus himself said that it's better to tie a millstone around a childs neck and drown him than let him wander away from the xtian faith. There are plenty more examples.

Not to mention that being an atheist simply means you do not accept that a god exists. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a political, or social view, atheism does not have a rule book that says "hey killing people is okay!"
Atheists actually have to figure out what is ethically right for themselves.

You're just trying to change the definition of atheism.

You're attacking a straw man.

Alyxium

It just better be every bit as inappropriate as this article suggests.

Slashlen

haha I was waiting for you to throw out the stalin..

Adolf Hitler - Catholic. 6 millions Jews died in holocaust.

of all of the crusade along, the speculations was over 1.5 million dead. that's when the world population was only around 255 million.

idrisz

It's true that many of the world's ills have been caused by religion. From the crusades to suicide bombers, there has been death and destruction in the name of God. However, these wrongs cannot completely erase the amount of good done. Health care, education, food and water, religion's spirit of inclusivity and generosity have benefited countless numbers.

The simple truth, ignoring whether or not the divine is real or not, is that religion was the earliest form of government, and without rules of law, like those in the Ten Commandments, who knows how much worse the world could have been. It's not as if, after evolving from animalistic instinct to take what you need and survival of the fittest, that man was just going to up and decide to be decent to one another.

But there are a hell of a lot of non-religious inspired murders and crimes committed, as well. To my knowledge, the Holocaust was not perpetrated in the name of God, but in the name of Deutschland and the master race specifically against certain religions and races. To lay blame at the steps of religion is not entirely justified. It comes down to the individual committing those crimes, they're the ones who are responsible.

Strangelove

I_Hate_This_Place

Of course the Bible is violent, it took place in one of mankind's most foul and sinful points in history. God punished. People murdered. 'Twas foul.

The Passion of the Christ is rated R. Why do you think? Crucifixion is one of the most violent and gruesome execution methods ever used by man.

The Bible is violent. Get used to it.

If you don't want your child exposed to its violent side, simply don't. Lots of Christian parents simply emphasize the "Jesus loves you and died for you" impact of the Bible, until they're old enough to read and understand the whole Bible on their own.

@skrame: Agreed. I am a Christian. I don't want to kill gay people. I don't agree with homosexuality, but it's just like some people don't agree wit high taxes, abortion, or the legal driving age. I'm not going to wish harm upon any homosexuals. I know plenty myself and I pray for them everyday. God doesn't hate them. I don't hate them. It's just the sin itself, Christians don't support. If I showed any ill will towards them, how would that be showing God's love? It doesn't.

@IrisMR: You seem to overlook the various times God doesn't punish people when they surely deserve it, like how many chances God gave the Jews in the desert as they worshiped idols and disobeyed without punishing them. Or the fact that, according to the Bible, humanity would be screwed had God not had the compassion to send his Son to die for the sins of the earth.

Aren't most good fathers like "Do what I say or you will face the consequences"?
Don't most good fathers punish?

If you don't agree with the Bible, don't.
But nobody asked for your opinion on the Bible.

@Zookey:
I'm a Christian and I completely realize there's a movie/video game crowd for adults. What are you talking about? There are "kiddy" Bibles because it's not very wise to expose a young child to that kind of violence usually.

@Zookey:
Agreed, but as for attending church, you should find a good one if you're a Christian, not one full of hypocrites. The Bible says "do not forsake the assembly of the saints".

@Y0URGOD78: Find something better to do than to express your ignorant, negative views on Christianity to people who don't care.

The truth is, morality does not exist without religion. Laws change, come, go, and are broken. Without law and religion, we have no standard that forces us to not murder, steal, lust, abuse, etc. Yet before law, there was religion.

@idrisz: Then do you really think they are true Christians, if the Christian doctrine teaches loving your neighbor, keeping peace, praying for others, etc.?

Just because there are some idiots in the Christian belief, just like idiots in any other organized group, doesn't mean that's what we stand for.

I do so Athiests treat Christians horribly sometimes. Don't be one-sided.

@Alyxium: Sorry, God does not hate homosexuals. Nor do I, as a Christian. I wish no ill will against homosexuals whatoever. God hates the sin, and I don't support the sin either. But that doesn't mean I wish any harm upon homosexuals whatsoever. I have lots of gay friends, and I pray for them, and love them, as God does.

Athiests treat all beliefs equally? How many Athiests do you see mistreat and abuse Buddhists? As many as do Christians?

You'd best learn to respect other people's opinions before the banhammer jams up your rear end. Your elitist view is not absolute here.

@jBat17:
Unless you can prove a respected historical document about a time period you never lived in is false, kindly stfu.

@Y0URGOD78:
Uh, science shows you that biologically as soon as a boy can ejaculate semen, and as son as a girl begins ovulating, it is possible to raise children.

In the modern world? The sexual violation of young women isn't exactly illegal in asia.

Reasonable thinking being the highest morality? You sir, don't seem to understand that what may be moral for you is immoral for another. Morality based on opinion is hopeless.

@SuperPope: Exactly.

@skrame: Wow. Can you say "pwnd"?

thevengeanceoftheufo

mrantimatter

thevengeanceoftheufo

"Bullshit. Just because your prejudice and hatred are subtle, just because you try and justify them with unprovable ideas, doesn't mean they're neither extreme nor irrational to someone with a brain."
There is no hatred from me. How can it be subtle? You, on the other hand, seem to have anger issues. It's not irrational to think that something is morally objectionable, and I don't wish any extreme punishment on those who are homosexuals.

"Then stop being one?"
Stop being a homophobe? But I don't have an irrational fear of homosexuals. (Or a rational fear. There is no need to fear homosexuals.) I work with a few, and I don't cower under my desk when they come into my office. I treat them like anybody else. It's a lifestyle choice, not the plague.

"Anyone who cannot see what is wrong with this sentence, should promptly remove themselves from the world. Harsh? Yes it is, but I have little tolerance for consciously sustained ignorance."
Wow. You're certainly tolerant and understanding of others. I'm glad you're not homophobic, or else the homosexuals would really be in trouble. I should kill myself because I won't debate my religious views here? I was not saying that I would not protect my views in the world; I was saying that a video games blog is not the place to do so. As you said in your "bullshit" quote, they are "unprovable ideas". I was merely saying that I wouldn't get into a online discussion about whether Christianity is the right path. In the real world, I'd definitely discuss my views.

Not with you though, because you think I should remove myself from the world. That's an irrational and extreme thought! You're a skrame-a-phobe!

skrame ☆

cocks

How many more verses surrounding that verse do you want? This is the typical retreat to ignorance.
You want context! HERE IS YOUR CONTEXT! The Bible god is sick, and all you got is excuses.

Here ya go crybaby Mathew 10:1-10:33

1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off

15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

26Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

Y0URGOD78

idrisz

That being said, murder is murder. But when a "Christian" murders someone he is going against the beliefs he claims to follow. When an atheist commits genocide, however, he is following his beliefs perfectly.

Mind you, most atheists are good people. But a friendly atheist is merely being a better person than their ideology expects them to be.

But none of this has anything to do with videogames and everything to do with fanaticism and knee-jerk reactions of any kind. Judging the Bible based on what most of these commenters know about its content and history is just as hypocritical as FOX News judging Mass Effect based on their combined gameplay time of exactly zero minutes.

SuperPope

Or does the Big Guy not have to play by his own rules?

mrantimatter

Of corse, in the islamic world, they use the islamic calender, only breaking out the Xian one for political reasons.

For a non believer, it's really just a meaningless way to mark time. Proves nothing in it by itself.

mrantimatter

I_Hate_This_Place

Of course the Bible is violent, it took place in one of mankind's most foul and sinful points in history. God punished. People murdered. 'Twas foul.

The Passion of the Christ is rated R. Why do you think? Crucifixion is one of the most violent and gruesome execution methods ever used by man.

The Bible is violent. Get used to it.

If you don't want your child exposed to its violent side, simply don't. Lots of Christian parents simply emphasize the "Jesus loves you and died for you" impact of the Bible, until they're old enough to read and understand the whole Bible on their own.

@skrame: Agreed. I am a Christian. I don't want to kill gay people. I don't agree with homosexuality, but it's just like some people don't agree wit high taxes, abortion, or the legal driving age. I'm not going to wish harm upon any homosexuals. I know plenty myself and I pray for them everyday. God doesn't hate them. I don't hate them. It's just the sin itself, Christians don't support. If I showed any ill will towards them, how would that be showing God's love? It doesn't.

@IrisMR: You seem to overlook the various times God doesn't punish people when they surely deserve it, like how many chances God gave the Jews in the desert as they worshiped idols and disobeyed without punishing them. Or the fact that, according to the Bible, humanity would be screwed had God not had the compassion to send his Son to die for the sins of the earth.

Aren't most good fathers like "Do what I say or you will face the consequences"?
Don't most good fathers punish?

If you don't agree with the Bible, don't.
But nobody asked for your opinion on the Bible.

@Zookey:
I'm a Christian and I completely realize there's a movie/video game crowd for adults. What are you talking about? There are "kiddy" Bibles because it's not very wise to expose a young child to that kind of violence usually.

@Zookey:
Agreed, but as for attending church, you should find a good one if you're a Christian, not one full of hypocrites. The Bible says "do not forsake the assembly of the saints".

@Y0URGOD78: Find something better to do than to express your ignorant, negative views on Christianity to people who don't care.

The truth is, morality does not exist without religion. Laws change, come, go, and are broken. Without law and religion, we have no standard that forces us to not murder, steal, lust, abuse, etc. Yet before law, there was religion.

@idrisz: Then do you really think they are true Christians, if the Christian doctrine teaches loving your neighbor, keeping peace, praying for others, etc.?

Just because there are some idiots in the Christian belief, just like idiots in any other organized group, doesn't mean that's what we stand for.

I do so Athiests treat Christians horribly sometimes. Don't be one-sided.

@Alyxium: Sorry, God does not hate homosexuals. Nor do I, as a Christian. I wish no ill will against homosexuals whatoever. God hates the sin, and I don't support the sin either. But that doesn't mean I wish any harm upon homosexuals whatsoever. I have lots of gay friends, and I pray for them, and love them, as God does.

Athiests treat all beliefs equally? How many Athiests do you see mistreat and abuse Buddhists? As many as do Christians?

You'd best learn to respect other people's opinions before the banhammer jams up your rear end. Your elitist view is not absolute here.

@jBat17:
Unless you can prove a respected historical document about a time period you never lived in is false, kindly stfu.

@Y0URGOD78:
Uh, science shows you that biologically as soon as a boy can ejaculate semen, and as son as a girl begins ovulating, it is possible to raise children.

In the modern world? The sexual violation of young women isn't exactly illegal in asia.

Reasonable thinking being the highest morality? You sir, don't seem to understand that what may be moral for you is immoral for another. Morality based on opinion is hopeless.

thevengeanceoftheufo

Your bible god rapes a 13 year old, and the best excuse I've gotten from christians is, "She consented". Well in the modern world that shit don't cut it, but in the bible world it was just fine.
It blows my mind that anyone would try to justify such a horrible thing.

Reason which is thinking, is the highest morality one can have. Faith is an escape from reason, and a destroyer of the mind.

Y0URGOD78

jBat17

skrame ☆