Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win - Kotaku Comments

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

rhinestonedarling — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:25:07 MST

"Could this really be the reason your girlfriend won't play Xbox with you?"

No, but it's stupid fucking comments like that that make girls think that video games are a boys' club only. Way to set us back a decade.

rhinestonedarling

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Excalibur — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:19:33 MST

Huh, that's funny. The reason my girlfriend doesn't play games often is actually exactly opposite of this. She's really competitive and just doesn't have the experience to win video games very often. Thus, she doesn't like to play since she knows that she isn't likely to be able to play most games competitively.

Excalibur

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

JojoTheSlayer — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:24:43 MST

So, does this also prove why men rule the world? Women are to lazy to be bothered to win it? hehe :P

JojoTheSlayer

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Elrinth — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:11:09 MST

It's a great sensation when you ALMOST lose or ALMOST win . It's the best feeling in the world yet most strive to win by margin. When I play multiplayer games and win too easily I tend to loosen up some and allow my opponent to come a wee bit closer but when he gains in too much I tend to put all in instantaniously. That's how I work. Playing fighting games, or shooters, it's certainly not always fun to win, you've got to have some kind of difficulty. The biggest problems with most games nowadays is that they don't have that difficulty they had in the old days.

I'll take Zelda Ocarina of Time as an example, once u press a button the camera moves to the thing u manipulated by pressing the button. Compare this to Zelda 1 and the burning bushes & bomb opening-aspects you'll quickly realize games help too much these days.

It may be the fact that game developers think they are making games more appropriate for children. But the fact I played and finished Zelda 1 and Metroid 1 when I was only 4-5 years old kind of tells that games needn't be more simplified! Unless I'm some kind of exception. What about you guys?

However, I had really much trouble with some of the puzzles in Wind Waker. Perhaps because it's in 3d and there's even more to explore? Even so, the "moving camera to object u just activated"-thing is something I'd like game developers remove and let players guess what they activated instead. not only this, it removes the ability to interact with the game during this short "cut-scenes".

Okay enough ranting. Hope someone agrees slightly with me. :)

Elrinth

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name. — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:21:30 MST

@Avinash_Tyagi: You may be on to something there. Of course there's exceptions on both sides, but us guys to tend to enjoy the thrill of a challenge and reward of victory, while the games that take off with women (Sims, Animal Crossing) are more about the journey rather than the goal.

Maybe that's why MMOs are popular across both genders, since there's both rewards for victory and a lot of community and things to do as well.

But as I said, this is far from clear-cut. Hell, I love some games like Rollercoaster Tycoon that are about being creative and canny.

So basically, everyone's happy in multiplayer.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name. — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:16:51 MST

Hehe, balls to the wall.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Waka in Japan — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:57:58 MST

I want to play that game... it seems rewarding!

Waka in Japan

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Avinash_Tyagi — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:34:02 MST

This is why Wii is so popular with women, many games which are less about winning and more about fun

Avinash_Tyagi

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

buttpwner — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:08:15 MST

casting pearls to swine here

buttpwner

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

That Girl Hates You — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:10:08 MST

@EmeraldDragon: You've got a source for that statement? Since on some cultures both men and women did the same thing, for example the Huaorani in Ecuador. Source my Freaking Anthro Professor who spent time with them

That Girl Hates You

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

That Girl Hates You — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:07:29 MST

yay more studies. I don't really think it has anything to do with the brain but just society. I've played sports (softball, Ice and Field hockey) and the coaches never pushed us as hard as the guys (which ticked me off since I wanted to be the best but the coaches never drilled it into us.)

That Girl Hates You

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

mythago — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:59:40 MST

How to tell people who have never, ever hunted in real life? They think hunting is *competitive*, not *cooperative*. Early Man didn't spear a mammoth running off by his own self. But then, anybody with a basic grasp of evolution is probably aware that we are a social species.

And anyone who thinks women "aren't competitive" should be in an average singles' bar on a night when a Brad Pitt look-alike walks in. Yes, those cooperative ladies!

mythago

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

M1RAG3 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:57:55 MST

Yay! Guess what guys! We are more aggressive than women. I know amazing! Only through the power of sciiiiiiiiieeeeence!

Seriously enough with these common sense studies. That money could be put to so many far superior and beneficial uses. And especially this topic, because I mean the 5000+ years of known bloodshed and male lead death and destruction isn't evidence enough, right?

M1RAG3

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

EmeraldDragon — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:25:03 MST

Does any one know how I cam get a government grant to do a study like this. I mean, really, did they need a study to figure out that men are more competitive then women? Men were the hunters, women were the gatherers. This ain't exactly a new concept.

EmeraldDragon

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

hikkifan1986 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:20:36 MST

@katorok: God yes. God YES.

hikkifan1986

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Katorok — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:30:35 MST

@stranger: =( I agree, makes me sad about how this effort could of gone to cancer research or something..

Katorok

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Ultrasinc — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:06:51 MST

See, this proves that girls who DO enjoy videogames are good ^_^

Ultrasinc

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

trina — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:50:13 MST

@jinkywilliams: I think there are more reasons why women game. And it is possible that men may even game for the same exact reasons.

Just because you do not know women that play games to be competitive does not mean they do not exists. It just means you have female friends that are just more casual in their hobby.

I agree with your statement about men being more agressive about achieving, but how much of that is how we are brought up?

Like Tori says, the nature vs nurture arguement is completely left out. It is my theory that as more of us game, and then in turn our children game, that these so-called differences will be null. The idea of gamers being different because of their gender will be gone.

And again, the study has too many flaws and is way to statistically small to even be conclusive. What worries me more is the male arguement of, "I don't know any women that do (fill in the blank) therefore no woman does (fill in the blank)." To draw a conclusive idea that x is true because I have not experienced it is not only dangerous but also foolish. You limit your own world and your view of others by showing how small minded you are.

Like Juno says, "WOAH DREAM BIG!"

trina

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

stranger — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:32:10 MST

Thank God we have Standford to tell us all what we already know: Men are naturally more inclined towards competitive activities than women. (ergo- "men are naturally more competitive")

Wonder how much money was wasted on this study?

stranger

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

jinkywilliams — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:18:29 MST

I think that the trademark male competitiveness comes from a basic male need to know if he's "up to the challenge". I think that's the question that every man has, and it's what drives them. Men, much more than women, have "defining moments": Times where they've conquered; where they've concluded, either by their own observation or by external observation, that they were indeed up to the challenge (see also: Rite of Passage).

Hardcore gamers are almost always men because of this. Men are the ones who climb Mt. Everest "Because it was there". That's all we need: A mountain to climb is a gauntlet dropped.

Men are also much more linear in their thinking process. Literally, the neurons fire differently. Womens' neuron paths are more like tons of one-lane roads branching out, whereas mens' are like fewer five-lane superhighways. There is much truth to the saying that men are more single-minded: We just are.

Men are like military binoculars: Perfect for seeing the bigger picture, but sometimes having tunnel vision and not being able to see the details right in front of them. Also, you can drop them and they'll still function.

Women are more like fine-tuned microscopes: Excelling at detecting microscopic changes. But because they are so fine-tuned, it doesn't take much for them to get out of alignment. I think they are wired to be social creatures.

All this to say that I believe that men and women have drastically different reasons for playing video games and enjoying video games. I like Halo 3 because it has guns, guts, glory, and it's a challenge that has been laid down. A couple of female friends of mine also like Halo 3, but they play it (and this has been confirmed by them) because of the social aspect. They wouldn't just play it by themselves. They play it because it is a means to the end of social interaction with people that they care about.

I think this is the key to why women play games: It is a way to spend time with a loved one, a way to get into the good graces of a guy they like, or a way of proving that they can play just as a good as a guy can.

I think that the same thing applies to "Gamer Grrls".

jinkywilliams

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

B1S1 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:43:52 MST

I knew this first, I WIN!!!!

B1S1

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

FunkyJ — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:28:45 MST

I simply don't see how testing 22 men and women means this is scientific fact that applies to all people everywhere.

FunkyJ

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Nullzero — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:24:17 MST

Sure, guys like games more than girls.

But I'm more interested in knowing why the hells girls love websites like MySpace and Facebook and crap. I've known several who seriously will spend an hour or two every day... just clicking through that site, and looking and crap.

Nullzero

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

trina — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:23:46 MST

Wow. I guess I am more tomboy than I thought. Complete with a male brain. ^_^

The sample size is way too small to have any type of conclusive evidence.

trina

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Rohstafari — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:14:48 MST

nurture not nature. all this study shows is the obvious reflection of our culture which still, in today's "modern" society, insists on differentiating gender through sex.

Rohstafari

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

doing — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:35:16 MST

I think it's also worth noting that most people involved in designing games are males. They in return make games appealing to themselves and while there's nothing wrong with this, an unintended effect is that said game would naturally appeal more to a another male.

Which isn't to say girls don't game of course.

doing

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Ajh — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:16:30 MST

Darn it, I'm a boy again huh? The worlds first boy with female parts or something. I'm not gay either. I like guys just fine, have no problem with dresses and pink and such...and I do have a competitive streak. Most of the girls I know into gaming (myself included) are just as competitive, if not more so than the guys. Guess I better tell my sister that halo 3 isn't as fun for her as the guys so she shouldn't play anymore. (Yeah right, I'd have to pry it from her cold dead fingers.)

@TomSkylark: It doesn't. Such a small sample ruins any credibility this study has.

Ajh

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Furious_Liver — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:00:01 MST

@Toasticus: ...My sister played Vice City, and she spent 2 minutes hitting the same dead hooker with a bat. Such is the mindset of a 13 year old girl, it seems.

Furious_Liver

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

dren — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:48:23 MST

@DrMekon: tbqh, I don't know what you mean when you say intra-cluster correlation. I've always scoffed at studies like this one because of what seems to me to be an incredibly low number of test subjects. How does intra-cluster correlation nullify the low number of participants and how effectively does it do so? What if the chosen men were very competitive and the women weren't?

It seems to me like they have shown a correlation between wanting to win and activity in the mesocorticolimbic center but not a causal link between that brain activity and being male.

At any rate, none of it matters since knowing that I have increased mesocorticolimbic activity won't make my fiance any happier about the hours and hours I spend playing Team Fortress.

dren

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Xamot — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:30:10 MST

Both groups showed activity in the mesocorticolimbic center, which is the part of the brain associated with rewards and addictions, but the males showed a lot more activity.

this overactive brain center could still be due to the way these men were raised... this study itself has nothing to do with the genetic propensity between the two sexes.

Xamot

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

gamadaya — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:29:48 MST

@gekyo:
That may be, but I'm the opposite. I actually usually don't care whether I win or not, yet I love playing competitively. As for MMOs, I don't get them. They don't seem like competitions (except for maybe EVE). I don't see the point to spending countless hours doing monotonous tasks for a stat boost or new equipment. Then agian, that's exactly what I did with Oblivion. Hmm... I think with MMOs, and some RPGs, it's more about the social or fantasy aspect than it is about the competition. And besides, plenty of girls play MMOs, more than other genres anyway.

gamadaya

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

NinjaBurg3r — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:25:48 MST

@dren: While this is certainly an interesting topic, I must agree with you. There needs to be a much larger pool from which data is obtained in order to validate it. This study will hopefully be replicated in the near future with a larger group of subjects.

Hopefully it solidifies this claim, so that I will finally have an argument for my girlfriend (or just about any other girl for that matter) other than "you don't understand, you're not a guy"!

I don't understand your obsession with the E! channel and expensive designer purses; nor do I care. Please reciprocate the favor with regards to my overly competitive nature and obsession with sports and videogames and my love for expensive electronics!

NinjaBurg3r

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

DrMekon — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:22:28 MST

@dren:

Paper here - [dx.doi.org]

The press release and abstract don't specify the hypothesis, so it may not be science in the popperian sense. However, assuming they do, 22 participants need not stop it being an test of a falsifiable hypothesis. I don't know what stats you do on fMRI data, but I suspect that each participant generates a lot of data, then intra-cluster correlation is controlled for. It's very possible that 22 participants generate enough data for there to be sufficient power to make the chance falsely rejecting the null hypothesis acceptably low.

DrMekon

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

TheTog — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:20:23 MST

WAAAGH!!!

TheTog

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

HertzaHaeon — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:18:25 MST

This study says nothing about WHY these differences exist, today. Were the men exposed to more games than the women growing up? Have the women been encouraged to compete and play as kids, or to socialize and cooperate? I think we can all guess how it works for kids in general...

HertzaHaeon

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Tori Floyd — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:11:27 MST

@TomSkylark: Don't worry, I agree that any study like this, especially one with such a small sample, should be taken with a grain of salt. At the same time, as many of the other commenters have pointed out, this is one of those things that seems so incredibly obvious, it's as if the researchers conducting the study didn't bother with a larger sample size. I think in this particular case, common knowledge makes up for what the study lacks in major numbers.

Tori Floyd

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

buttpwner — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:03:17 MST

i actually think the title of this article should be changed from the "boys brains make them...", since the innateness of the reaction hasn't been studied. only that there is a reaction.

buttpwner

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Tori Floyd — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:02:00 MST

@Rockbot: I'm not so much talking about technological advancement, as a natural disposition to be interested in games versus one that is conditioned because everyone else is doing it. My suggestion is more that people become interested in the hobbies that those around them have, not out of necessity like using a computer is today but essentially because "all the cool kids are doing it."

Tori Floyd

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

buttpwner — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:58:32 MST

what i'm hoping for is a nature vs nurture type of answer. i knew that our culture embraces male competition a whole crap-load more than female for a long time before reading this, but the real question lies at whether or not this is due to the brain's inherit structure or just a result of enculturation. it also should be stated that this test was only conducted with the a simple "control the number of balls" game- who knows how the accomplishment area of the brain responds to other activities. my personal hypothesis would be that the activity within the accomplishment part of the brain will be active much more so for activities either sex has been enculturated to perform more competitively.

buttpwner

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

dren — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:58:09 MST

This isn't science. They only studied 22 people.

dren

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Krondonian — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:52:06 MST

@GUNDAM-RX-78-2: Eewwww...

Krondonian

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

JustThisGuy — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:43:39 MST

@Toasticus: WIN!

On topic: not horribly surprising. This explains a lot, actually. It's a bit depressing, but enlightening.

JustThisGuy

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Voteforme2020 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:36:49 MST

@Voteforme2020: Sorry about the grammar errors. I'm just really excited about this. My girlfriend is obsessed with playing WoW (mostly to talk to other people) and she forces me to play with her (she refuses to play alone). :(

Voteforme2020

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

DaiMacculate — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:35:58 MST

@Dual45s: I don't see in any way how you're forming that correlation (Girls who play "guy games" are "tigers in the sack"), but since I would like it to be true I won't argue with you ;)

DaiMacculate

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Voteforme2020 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:34:00 MST

This is 100% true. World of Warcraft (and Secondlife) have taught me this. Men PvP (more than women) and women PvE and do group affairs (more than men). Both enjoy games, but they enjoy them differently. But I'm really glad someone realized this and put it out there. Hopefully gamer developers see this and start to make more girl friendly games (not just brighter, pinker boy games).

Voteforme2020

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Dual45s — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:32:01 MST

I would say this is a study that needs a little more indepth options. My wife will play and get very pissed if she loses Mario Party or Donkey Konga, yet she won't touch Halo or Call of Duty. The real question is, if a girl is extremely motivated to win does she think more like a guy? Yeah, you know what I'm saying, a girl that will play "guy games" with you is probably a tiger in the sack.

Dual45s

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Communist_Gamer — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:27:10 MST

Men: "I'm more competitive than you nanananananana-na"

Communist_Gamer

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

LordChris915 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:24:39 MST

Damnnnn, now theeey caan prooove im an adddddict.

LordChris915

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Chilly Hollow — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:22:29 MST

Oh, no!! I have a man's brain!!!!

[bursts into tears, then pulls out a lace hanky to wipe eyes, and puts on fresh pink lipstick]

Seriously, the competitive urge is inside us all but some of us feel it more. I am extremely competitive and love shooters. Therefore I must be male?

Doesn't follow really. This study isn't quite sure what it is measuring or what the results mean. Not surprising. We are extremely complex beings.

And cute in pink lipstick.

Chilly Hollow

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

seafisch — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:21:30 MST

@Toasticus: ...and women are genetically programmed to control balls.

seafisch

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Zeouterlimits — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:21:30 MST

In other news it rained here in Ireland.

Ahh sterotyping and facts, it's a fun world.

Zeouterlimits

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Cola82 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:19:43 MST

@Cola82: Everyone except the awesome people here apparently. Sorry about that.

Cola82

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Cola82 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:17:18 MST

It think it has everything to do with the way we're raised. If it were biology, there wouldn't be so many exceptions. These parts of the brain may be triggered because some people have been conditioned to use them and others haven't.

I say this because according to all these flimsy one-off studies that everyone falls over themselves proclaiming it to be "TeH Science!" add up to my being a total freak of nature. I often don't sleep trying to get through a game or get certain achievements. I'm much more competitive than my boyfriend and most dudes I know, and I take it every bit as personally.

It's nothing to be proud of, but I often play at the exclusion of all else because I become fixated on victory in a way no one I've met has.

Cola82

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

harold — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:15:07 MST

It proves nothing except that culture is able to modify behaviors and in a way, brains.

Some scientist would say NO SHIT.

harold

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Toasticus — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:13:33 MST

@Vecha: Dude, WTF. Same thing happened to me. My roommate was there chatting with us as my girl played Bioshock, and he stopped mid-sentence to cringe. He and I were looking at each other like O_o as she kept smacking this corpse with the wrench over and over. After a minute of corpse-smacking I took the controller from her and mumbled, "uh, okay, that was... fun... uh, let's move on..."

Toasticus

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Communist_Gamer — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:12:21 MST

@myself

And also to be clear that I mean no disrespect to Kotaku editors either, but you have passed this news story on without opinion - I love this website because you get detailed and intriguing opinion on topics like this.

Communist_Gamer

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Paper — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:11:35 MST

@TomSkylark: That's the problem I had with the study. 11 males and 11 females is supposed to in some way represent the overall mindset of the several billion people on this planet? No information at all is given on the test subjects' education(private or public), specific age, family income, race, location, athletic vs. scholastic interests, or any other of a number of factors that would have easily skewed the results of such a minuscule test group. Though I guess that thorough, detailed case studies don't make for quite as good bite-sized press releases.

Paper

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

BtownDesignGuy — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:10:13 MST

I can't help but wonder if this is a "chicken or the egg" kind of thing. One can interpret this as saying males are more competitive because that section of their brain is more active... or is that section of their brain more active because they're more emotionally invested in the game?

BtownDesignGuy

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

TomSkylark — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:09:59 MST

Oh, to be clear, I meant no disrespect to the Kotaku editors, I just think this sort of thing needs to be remarked upon and taken with a grain of salt as opposed to espousing some sort of "Well, the social scientists said it, so it must be true!" attitude.

TomSkylark

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

ConstantCupcake — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:07:13 MST

Now they just need to isolate the "smack talking" area of the brain.

ConstantCupcake

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

DELICIOUS BUNNY — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:06:50 MST

@Toasticus:

Another nomination for comment of the week. =D

DELICIOUS BUNNY

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Communist_Gamer — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:04:48 MST

@TomSkylark:

Good point.

For evidence to support this great comment go watch the TV and wait for some makeup adverts. 99% of women agree... and your sample is 100? Who are they? Where are they from? Who conducted it etc.

I'm but a young teen yet these points I'm seeing why isn't anyone else seeing this?

Kotaku obviously have a duty to post news like this, but a bit about how it might not be 100% accurate would be great using your expert knowledge Tori if you would...

Communist_Gamer

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

geekgrrl — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:02:49 MST

@Black-Dog-Howls: was just talking about that with a friend last night. no interest. i take my time when it comes to games.. i love to explore. the environment and how you can interact with it is usually as important as the goal or the gameplay.

geekgrrl

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

TomSkylark — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:02:30 MST

This article kind of ignores that most neural connections are actually formed in response to results and stimuli... So, it doesn't really prove anything except that a significant portion of males vs. females are socialized a certain way so that certain neural pathways develop with certain neural responses as the result.

In other words, studies like this usually end up showing very little besides that male and female children are socialized differently and thus grow up into men and women who were socialized differently. The only reason this kind of research gets so much attention is because people feel that it backs up gender differences some people perceive as "natural" that are more the result of socialization than anything.

More importantly, that's a teeny-tiny sample size. 22 people? Really? This establishes scientific significance?

TomSkylark

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

PositivelyGreg — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:02:22 MST

Someday I will be a subject in a study like this. I will be thinking about cake. And they will process my MRI and they will see that the cake part of my brain is all lit up and they'll think about cake too.

It'll be the start of something beautiful. And delicious.

PositivelyGreg

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Benjo — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:58:39 MST

Humans' brains make them want to live.

Benjo

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Foggynotion — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:53:36 MST

Boys have penises and girls have ba-ginas.

/who is your daddy, and what does he do?

Foggynotion

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

marty7044 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:52:46 MST

This hardly news considering that wanting to win is a product of one's ego, and everyone knows that males have bigger egos than women.

marty7044

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Black-Dog-Howls — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:48:22 MST

@the-hypnotoad: No, an incredible long but skippable cut scene. Achievement unlocks come from things like "All Around the Wad: Nail your teacher with three spit wads from various points in the classroom."

Black-Dog-Howls

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

xiphos — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:46:10 MST

"New TF2 Reward: Achievement for being a man" UNLOCKED! W00T!

xiphos

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Dekko — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:43:06 MST

Males tend to grasp abstract objects and situations better than females. So as I see it males could also get a better "connection" with the game they are playing, therefore, they feel more motivated.

It may all be rooted in our past when only the strongest individuals had the right to pass on their genes witch was/is the ultimate goal of all living beings.

Dekko

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Irenicus-the one and only — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:42:29 MST

This should not come as a surprise, there are still 2 genders and there are still some biological differences even if people think that eliminating said differences is a form of equality or feminism. Some things can't be changed, but then we can't forget that some individuals are different from the norm.

It was expected.

Irenicus-the one and only

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

the-hypnotoad — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:41:43 MST

@Black-Dog-Howls: Oh, instead of 'graduating' maybe they could have an 'achievement unlocked' ceremony!

the-hypnotoad

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Infradead — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:41:23 MST

Perhaps if I could *find* a girl to play video games with I could investigate this matter more thoroughly.
Ah, well.

Infradead

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

hrabbit — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:41:18 MST

Well I believe this, when I play video games I am definitely not that competitive at all, I dont know its like Im the opposite of my boyfriend video game wise sometimes =/. I hate games where I have to work with other people too

@Toasticus:
XD

hrabbit

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Vecha — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:40:24 MST

I tried to get my g/f to play bioshock...she was more interested in continuously beating the crap out of the splicers as she laughed mischievously, "muahahahaha!"

Vecha

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Black-Dog-Howls — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:38:50 MST

@Granthunter: Teachers need to be challenging boss characters. Challenge the boys. Make it a game. If they can't compete in a multiplayer experience and least give them a decent single player campaign instead of softening things up for the casual audience.

Black-Dog-Howls

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Wuffles — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:36:50 MST

@Wuffles:
*as...

Sorry for the quadruple-uple posting! Me no good at typing.

Wuffles

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Wuffles — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:35:50 MST

Oh, and I love how they refer to it has "the Halo 3". :P

Wuffles

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

LittlestLamshi — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:35:41 MST

What a cool read...
Weird though....

LittlestLamshi

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

tamago007 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:34:45 MST

@Bryan_:

oh yeah... the mature XBL community. (hurra PSN)

but seriously, there are girls with a high "win" mentality

tamago007

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Rockbot — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:34:05 MST

@amazinglarry: I know right. And what is with testing 22 men and women? In order to get a %5 margin of error and a %95 confidence level they would have had to include at least 384 people in the study.

Rockbot

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Granthunter — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:33:38 MST

@ STRATOVARIUS
I don't think you were off topic at all. I just finished reading an article called "Fixing Boys" and it mentioned the same thing you did. The reason it relates is because in some cases education systems and new social norms are marginalizing young boys. Young girls are encouraged to compete with Men, feminist movements continue this and I don't think it is bad. What is bad is that at the same time competitive behaviour in young boys is heavily discouraged. Playing an online game is bad for them as is playing with toy guns or swords. Also boys brains are by and large more stimulated through activity not sitting still and listening, but a boy who fidgets in class is told to act more like Sally and be still.

Discouraging video games is just one more way that young boys are being marginalized. Educators need to stop seeing games as the enemy and acknowledge that they could be a tool.

Granthunter

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Bryan_ — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:31:12 MST

My girlfriend has had a 360 for a while -- she's not your typical gamer. But when she picked up Halo 3 and went online and everyone started calling her "whore" and "slut" and "OMG A GIRL!", the only thing she wanted to do was frag the shit out of them.

Bryan_

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Wuffles — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:30:45 MST

I'm not surprised in the slightest. I find getting competitive very boring.
In things like RTS games I'd rather build an awesome base and research everything before attacking - whereas in the competitive environment that isn't possible.

So basically I lose in most multiplayer games. >_>

Wuffles

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

the-hypnotoad — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:29:53 MST

I hear that next week they are releasing a groundbreaking study titled "Scientists Claim Sun 'Pretty Hot'"

the-hypnotoad

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Bissrok — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:29:49 MST

"The male scientists, upon seeing that their hypothesis was indeed correct shouted, 'BOO-YEAH, BITCHES!' and went on to high five each other for several minutes..."

Bissrok

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Rockbot — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:29:16 MST

Correlation does not equal causation. And did you just liken the nature vs. nurture debate to video games? Of course we understand and use technology more when we grow up using it vs. trying to teach yourself after your an adult so it is with every advancing technology, e.g. My Grandmother looks at a computer and simple cannot/refuses to comprehend, For my mother it has been necessary for her to learn how to operate a computer for work beyond that and looking at pictures she could give a hoot, For me and my siblings computers seem almost essential for many many aspects of life, Our kids will probably have computers installed into their brains for better memory management and computing efficiency. I think the Na vs. Nu debate deals more with behavioral adaptations and responses, less to do with the technological advancements.

Rockbot

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

The_Inquisitor — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:28:26 MST

I would take these conclusions with an industrial sized bag of salt. An unfortunate truth of neuroscience is that it is a lot less science, and a lot more politics and hand-waving. (And I work for the Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience even!)

I'll probably get around to reading the publication sometime this month, but somehow I'm fairly sure of the sort of half-assed statistical analysis they used to "justify" the conclusions.

The_Inquisitor

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

UltimatePancakeSensation — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:25:31 MST

Gender isn't binary. Like most things, it's a continuum. You're not either masculine or feminine; thinking like this can only cause problems. Rather, reach individual is placed somewhere between 100% masculine and 100% feminine, with few, if any, people actually inhabiting the extremes.

UltimatePancakeSensation

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

amazinglarry — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:24:06 MST

"They appeared motivated to succeed at the game. The males were just a lot more motivated to succeed."

Pretty awesome conclusion. I don't know why I bother with the work I'm doing when I can just do studies and make conclusions like that.

"The dogs seemed to enjoy lounging around... The cats just seemed to enjoy it a lot more."

How scientific sounding right?

amazinglarry

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Atilla_the_Nun — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:22:47 MST

Activity in the mesocorticolimbic center FTW!

Atilla_the_Nun

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Toasticus — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:21:56 MST

They picked a bad example.

Men care a lot more about protecting balls.

Toasticus

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Stratovarius — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:21:47 MST

This isn't new by any means. It has been talked about alot lately, specifically pertaining to why boys are now doing worse than girls in schools. The problem is that schools are not geared towards boys as much as they are girls, schools do not want competition among the students in the class, and it's actually looked down upon. Anyway, that was off topic, I know. Just thought I'd share.

Stratovarius

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Black-Dog-Howls — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:19:10 MST

@Black-Dog-Howls: Get rid of that question mark.

Oh, and runs*** <.<

Black-Dog-Howls

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Black-Dog-Howls — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:18:44 MST

That certainly explains why we've got those insane as hell Portal speed runs and Metal Gear Solid European Extreme Speed Rungs?

Black-Dog-Howls

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

cocks — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:18:43 MST

@DaiMacculate: I was sick for a long time and I had gone to many diffrent doctors and specialists who were unable to give me any kind of diagnosis. The experience really opened my eyes to how much we actually don't know about the human body.

cocks

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

SolInvictus — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:18:41 MST

This is so true.

SolInvictus

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Setzer IIDX — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:17:26 MST

Kind of goes along with the whole humanoid males were the providers and the instigators in relationships WAAAAY back in the day.

We had to be competitive to survive, the females notsomuch.

With the increase in female liberation and equality, and thus the increase in females taking over what would have been a 'Male' role (asking out guys on dates, being the primary breadwinner), this could probably be associated with the increase in female gamers.

*shrugs* Or at least, s'my take on it. Gaming and evolution, wurd.

Setzer IIDX

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

cocks — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:16:30 MST

Hm, interesting. I wonder why that part of the brain is more active, though. I mean, which is a result of which? Are men more determined to win because that part of our brain makes us that way, or is it that that part of brain is more active because we are more determined to win?

I never did very well in biology...

cocks

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

Gekyo — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:15:50 MST

i think it makes sense, for a rough majority. it would explain why the majority of mmo players are male, setting a goal and intently seeking it, though it may be grueling and not fun till the high level.

Gekyo

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

GUNDAM-RX-78-2 — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:15:21 MST

This is so true i beat Super Mario World a year ago and literally had an orgasm.

GUNDAM-RX-78-2

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

sUKi — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:13:17 MST

ugh. I have a competitive type mindset. When I end up playing a game and lose a few times or win ONCE i get this sensation to keep playing until I keep wining all the time. it's not over until I say it is. That's how I play [varies from game to game though]

sUKi

Boys' Brains Make Them Want To Win

DaiMacculate — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:11:58 MST

Studies like this using MRI are always interesting, not only in what they actually reveal but also a good check on human hubris, the fact that we still don't understand the most important organ in our bodies half as well as we would like to ;)

DaiMacculate