Codexx

Oh, and I'm so outraged about this defamation thing that I'd sue her f'ing ass out of the water >:(
And such.

eclipsemattaru

Whatever, just another misguided female unhappy with todays standards. If she thinks men are childish and not interested in raising a family, she could just look for another woman and adopt a few children. Such is the world of today. Adopting is probably the better way to adress the world population issue anyway.

But I suppose it's always easier to blame others rather than take some positive steps for yourself, or actually informing yourself about the subject.

Nirual

PurpleMonkey

"I've got a game you would like, Kate. It's called "Everybody Listen to Me". On each level you just talk into the microphone, or headset about yourself and how wonderful you are, and a series of realistically rendered men will nod, smile and make appreciative sighs every few sentences.

Out soon ....."

KnightRider

wdlv

DaiMacculate

djcoffee

djcoffee

msondokat

Oh? I was under the impression that it was a good idea to go to college, start a career, be financially secure, and maybe even buy a house before a person decided to get married and have a family.

But meh, what do I know? I'm just a stupid college student trying to prepare myself for the future. I really should start paying attention to those 18 year old guys getting married after they knocked up their girlfriend and having to work two jobs just to pay for the crappy one bedroom apartment.

golguin

Demaar

whoooa

StupidFace

It was really cool to read about the gamer wives, and it was especially nice to read posts written BY those girls, too. As a girl, can safely say that I don't want a Big-Brother watching or drunk-fight starting MAN-CHILD for a hubby? Because that fits my definition of childish pretty well.

StupidFace

...not to mention that wonderful run on sentence above ;p

But my girl? She gets it. Hell, the other night, she came over with some chicken nuggets and fries while I was engrossed in No More Heroes. Knowing I didn't want to stop playing, she started dipping the nuggets in the sweet and sour sauce (my favorite) and feeding them to me, with every other offering being a few french fries.

Now THAT'S a WOMAN!!....AND she's FINE AS ALL GET OUT!

If I can get a beautiful, college educated woman to hand feed me while I'm carving my way through Santa Destroy, then by golly, I guess I will be immature then. =D

Knoxximus (360/PSN)

GregoriusH

Otaconnachos

ChaoticLimbs

It's well known that the biggest loser from the growing popularity of video games is traditional media.

People are spending money on games instead of movies, music and newspapers, so of course Murdoch and his media cronies are going to allow this rubbish to be posted.

Yes, we are living in the dark ages, but it's got nothing to do with video games and everything to do with media ownership concentrated in the arms of the few.

FunkyJ

Garro

I still want to know what the women are called who play video games just as much...

Womanatees?

doubtful

Hand_O_Death

Samos42

Maybe thats how her last relationship went, where some guy got tired of her talk and went to play videogames. Shoot, if i were around her, id be either drinking or playing games, or both...

ZeonicFreak

"...daring, muscle and aggression are no longer valued."

When was aggression ever valued? I can understand some situations, like an aggressive sports player who's good at the game, but I don't think that's not a valued part of masculinity overall. Same for daring - sometimes being daring is good, sometimes it makes things worse. Not necessarily a value, just a useful trait. And finally, muscle - I'd have to say everyone values muscle since everyone has muscle. It allows us to move. And, as it turns out, men and women can both exercise and be muscular! *gasp* You don't have to be a body builder to be muscular, and you don't have to be male to lift weights. Being a gamer of either gender doesn't automatically equate to being out of shape.

Her world view is so narrow it's practically inverted. Is it possible to practice both misogyny and misandry at the same time? She doesn't seem to hate people, but rather she seems to discriminate against everyone based on her own high standards and the belief that all people find forms of (gender-specific) escapism.

天雷

And quite frankly, giving narrowminded people like her more media attention, will only make she write even more of it.

Let her cool down, reflect on what she wrote, and just get over it. Or die alone with no friends or family to support her, as most people with this mindset does.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

We have 2 cats, a Wii, 3 TiVos, an HDTV and a lot of computers. And we've had a damn good life. Without drinking, Big Brother, or punch-ups, all of which sound much more immature than blowing up virtual aliens.

Evil Tortie's Mom

Get real.

She apparently has sand in her meat flap.

axiomatic

"And many back when video games started to become a popular form of entertainment spewed hatred at them. There were rallies banning games including, yes believe it or not, Grand Theft Auto 6. It was when games were still played with controllers, and people were just being introduced to something called High Definition television or HDTV. Back then many people didn't understand what video games were, much like way back before when books weren't understood. Or when rock and roll first started, some people just didn't understand it and wanted to burn everything of it. But eventually, as you might have guessed, video games progressed to being a great form of entertainment and relaxation in the late 21st century, even after all that hate."

JGab

Taco Bell™

Athest

knulpm

cybereality

DARK DVNT; DARKDVNT [Xfire/Yahoo/Aim] ;Plz visit my website, k, thx.

Yes it is unfortunate that everyone is so put out by us gamers; the barman who has seen the numbers in his pub dwindle, the bouncer and police who have less fights to respond to, the poor TV executives who can forget about buying that gold yacht thanks to a dip in ratings and lest we forget the women who have a harder time finding a one night stand to regret about the next day. Society is at a tipping point and it looks like us gamers have truly put it over the edge.

kman2686

That's like me saying that all Chinese people are short and like to eat rice. All Mexicans like tacos and can play baseball. All black people play basketball and eat chicken and watermelon. Obviously this stereotypes are hurtful, just as the one she used against gamers is.

The best thing though, we aren't pompous pricks like this bitch is. We actually know what it means to care. (Child's play)

Ryadic

This is quite ridiculous, I think she's just trying to get a rise out of the gaming community in general, because as we've seen due to the whole Mass Effect situation, angry gamers = more page hits and attention. She's just trying to get her 15 minutes and isn't above pidgeon holing millions of people to do it. People like this should really just be ignored, don't feed the trolls.

EtherealEcho

SilentAssassn87

God forbid they have hobbies, enjoy living with their family (Because family is like the power rangers kid, grow out of em!), or be nostalgic to their childhood. That's just being immature.

SuperMaxZero

I fail to see why video games automatically equate with "the extended childhood of the 21st-century hominid." I know more guys that hide from their families and responsibilities on the golf course and softball field than do with video games.

gapzi11a

Kamizzle

I wonder how'd she react to find out that my fiancee and I met while playing WoW? I'd probably recieve a swift kick in the groin for that one. Or she'd go off on another tangent about my fiancee being a gamer, let alone a hardcore MMO player, and then it would get personal. And I'd end up in jail somehow.

heartless_king

In her world it seems that women don't make their own choices and can't form their own families around being independent providers themselves. If you are not focused on a family in her world you are a Man-teen that is probably the most disconcerting fact about that because it doesn't take in the view of the ever growing population of women that of working and traveling and doing more than just becoming home bodies.

In her world if men would put down the games and mature, women would have to take a step back and become "wives" to these men.

zsavior

GuardianEarth128

I'm looking forward to next week when I'll become a man-adult! I hear it's real fun!

Pixelantes Anonymous

God forbid a women buy something without her husband's money.

Tylahedras

Tzero7

Whew! Now I can play games as their made to be played - as a sluggard!!!

theone124

ohayou_kun

CallmeMongoose

Anyone else notice that all of the technological jumps have happened in the past couple of decades as we move further and further away from this traditionalist and conservative bullshit about quaint little homes with white picket fences. Maybe change is good? Maybe.

ChrowX

d0uble0se7en

I hear you, but it's an unfortunate truth that the gaming ecosystem is comprised mostly of men. So whenever there is an article cool case modder, or a game developer, or whatever, chances are that it's about a guy.

On the other hand, people outside the gaming community and feel the need to talk shit about us, that group is split fairly evenly along gender lines. So for every article like this, there will be one about Jack Thompson.

The point is this: Kotaku is one of the big gaming blogs. They cater to the community as a whole. As such they tend to focus on the stories that the general gaming community would read, and since the industry in general is skewed toward the male demographic, that is where Kotaku will usually go.

However, the gaming community isn't homogeneous. there are many blogs and websites that deal with less than mainstream issues in greater detail than Kotaku can afford to, and to Kotaku's credit, they tend to link these site fairly regularly.

labrats5

Vecha

goddessakasha

Evil_Snow_Man

Yeah, I really want to listen to someone likening me to a fat sea creature. You know what I do in my spare time instead of writing articles where all I do is complain about the other gender? I play video games (and look up naked pictures of the other gender).

So what? I enjoy myself, it helps me mentally and creatively. I still want to get married, have kids, etc. but I don't want to stop playing video games. I'm doing my lot in life and being a productive member of society, what more do you want? I'm not sure of my alternatives here cause I thought I had all grounds covered already.

Absent Blue

nicopolitan

nicopolitan

What's still lacking, regrettably even still in this modern age, is the encouragement of women to seek meaningful careers, education, hobbies and independent lives.

Go read any young girls' list of "Things that make a perfect man" on MySpace and see what I'm talking about. It's an amazingly unrealistic and sad reflection of what girls are being taught they should be seeking. I'd challenge people to find a "Things that make a perfect career" or "Where I hope to be in 20 years" (that doesn't involve mention of a man.)

I'm SUPPORTING women's rights with this argument. I believe women are stronger than this, and that their own strength and happiness should not be related to the hobbies of men.

Robotube

nicopolitan

But I don't get the manatee simile. LOL, it sounds like a half-assed freestyle.

"Man-teens sitting around like... giant Manatees... drinking Nesteas... like 'nahwhatimean?'"

screamingslave

fuzzbuzz

Her husband must be proud!!!

:\

(Poor bastard)

avconsumer

I agree. Awesome point.

babbleon

Knukleur

beef-a-jerky

angry_gamer

Medicine Seller [ZTF]

Touy

pABSO

Xmaster

i'm 23, male, and an avid video gamer, and far worse, i actually write about games and game reviews.

somehow though, i'm getting married this summer. must have fooled my fiancee expertly to pull this off. will have to warn her that she's possibly getting hitched to a man-teen...manatee...whatever, GAMER, i guess...

PGGB

"Mature adults accept that they're getting old and stop doing things, watching reality TV to fill the void."

No thanks.

fuchikoma

Well said!

Cchrist

Fuck me. Now you've got me defending her. Kinda sorta. I feel like I need a bath in lye.

foog

One of the first things she needs to realize is that these games aren't just for kids. There are SO many games that are now targeted for adults and the more popular, better games are only geared towards adults. Then she mentioned that these men are child-less. Well, so what? My husband and I are happily married for almost 2 years and we've already decided we don't want kids. Theres the finances that goes along with having a kid, but most of all, we just don't want one.

So many people picture a certain structure of how a normal life is suppose to be. After high school, you go to college, meet your special someone, get married, have kids, save money for kids, and send them off to college. But this isn't the 50's anymore. It shouldn't be mandatory to have kids, it shouldn't be mandatory that the man makes the money and the wife takes care of the home. The structure of a normal life has changed dramatically over the years. People in their 20s like me don't look at life the same way as our parents. Some people feel that having a child makes their life whole, and that's fine, but there are also people that feel that just enjoying life, either with hobbies, travelling, spending time with friends, whatever is good enough for them. And who are we to judge someone's choice in life style? The norm isn't the only norm anymore. People change.

Soriya

This article is a desperate, agonized cry of frustration from a woman who clings to outmoded remnants of the past and refuses to believe that somewhere, someone might actually be enjoying life. After 5 minutes of googling this bitter hag, I can see that gaming is just her target du jour and she spits vitriol at basically everything. Bah to her, and I hope her life of misery is very long.

ArcaneJMS

Xamot

It's worse than grown men building Hornby 00-gauge train sets in their attics, or constructing battles with painted toy soldiers. Only a few men did that, in secret, but now everyone is celebrating their inner geek.

Is only that his ticking biological clock, and stuff :D

Poor lady, world has changed, and she dont like the new world :/

Tei

StratfordX

brandonf

So, Mrs. Hymowitz, since I'm a girl who plays video games, does that mean I'm going to be a bad mother one day?

JaymeSue84

Gunhaver

Beelzebozo

So my conclusion: The poor women is lonely! Somebody send her some flowers! Quickly! Don't look at me! I'm already getting some.

Cchrist

The fact that she even views video games as a sign of immaturity shows that she is thinking through stereotypes, stereotypes created when playing video games meant you'd rather watch little dotes bounce off of lines rather than ride a bike or go out with friends... Does she not realize that things are changing? Do people not see the trends? I don't understand all the confusion that these people have.

Saying all men who play video games are immature is the same as saying that all women who like to shop are irresponsible. For instance, my 25 year old girlfriend just spent $450 dollars of money she doesn't really have on clothes at one time while I would NEVER do that with video games. If I want a new console I save and if something more important comes up, video games wait.

It takes two people to delay marriage not just one. Not every guy is putting it off, lady. And please consider that with increasing economic troubles, the rising cost and necessity of a college education and the fact that all of this factors into the cost of raising a family many men may well be putting off raising a family for entirely legitamate RESPONSIBLE AND MATURE reasons. For instance, I beleive it's better to wait and raise a child with my wife when we're smotionally and financially ready rather than run away into credit card debt and a 1 bedroom apartment with my wife and our two kids.

Take off the blinders lady.

bwwardiii

DiscipleofJamzy

The only thing is, since we're still in minority, and people are scared by more hardcore gamers who can stack a big 40 hours in videogames (That's my job, but I won't count them >_>) a week. I thing the article right here is poiting out and laughing loud at those hardcore gamers, even though society is -starting- to give them more importance, for example the competitions of videogames going on worldwide.

Nevertheless, we CAN'T deny that some gamers are taking games too seriously, or in overdose. When you play wow 40 hours a week and you have a job, well sorry mate, that's being addict. If we want to get a better image in society, we have to help those in needs and those who are laughed at and seen as problematic gamers.

Phibius

Hoboman725

windsor b

I agree...

It's just sad how they generalize men because the ones that they want won't commit.

babbleon

I think we just have to stick to what we're doing and wait until the next generation finally gets a word in.

Then again, that generation thinks paris hilton shouldnt go to jail for commiting a crime...

Cchrist

inajeep

Jhriad

<---pwns n00bs.

Mattjay

Sombody give this man a violin!

Anyway enough fishing.

I don't understand why people get allowed to be so negative about gamers. It's just discriminating...

Cchrist

It seems, in my opinion, that these women were raised with this dated idea of what a real man should be like. Perhaps they were given general guidelines with which they could judge us and deem us to be "worthy". Put that together with the dated misconception that games are still for chidren and you have a woman who now deems successful business men beneath her because they still play video games. It's sad really...

babbleon

BigShao

Good show, Yatterman. Southern Italy and I believe Sicily as well are really knee-deep in tradition. I never said I supported it, especially in extreme cases. After all, common sense comes before tradition.

Troubadour

The man can't even appreciate a good H2G2 quote...

Cchrist

They only good thing about The Times is Jeremy Clarksons column.

Also you know who owns The Times? I'll give you a clue the same person that own Faux News.

SPni

Oh, and an interesting fact: games are as valid as entertainment as movies, music, novels and the like. There's no educational difference between them (an no, you learn nothing from reading Harry Potter or anything by stepheen King).

Also, shame on men for being masculine.. That's foolish.. Men should be more.. effeminate? That's rational. Nothing sexist about that at all.

Okay, enough sarcasm. Bottom line is that movies suck now (I don't like watching other men cry), novels are getting silly, and real music died a long time ago. Games are the last bastion for men to entertain themselves.. but silly me, they shouldn't be allowed that basic privilege.

NotSoCool

By the way, what you might not know is that there has been a recent debate in the political show (it's not much more than that here) when one politician said that Italians are all childish lamers who can't decide to leave their moms and go outside to the real world.

I think she was refering to this when she wrote about Italians. meaning that Italians want to stay at home, so they can play videogames.
Fact is that while we have the world's best well paid and most privileged politicians (who don't know how the real world is shaped like), wages simply don't keep up with living costs, so the time when someone is actually able to leave the parent's house gets delayed by the need to get a degree and to save enough money to afford a loan or a rent.

Yatterman

hrabbit

I totally agree.

Hey Brian and everyone else. This kinda shit has nothing to do with the video game state as a whole. They are always going people out there who don't understand something. And by posting this stuff over and over, it does nothing to further video gaming as a whole or promote this community.

This is the kinda poison that we don't need on this site. There are ALWAYS going to be people with an alternate view of someone or something. Look at the people from that church "Westboro Baptist Church" they are totally off with their own thing. It's sick and it's wrong, but someone had to put them in the spot light because it news worthy. And I feel that is what we are doing here.

Please, let's be above that.

Narynan

cactaur

dead_red_eyes

In every domain, society or group, there will always be imature people. Mariage is religious crap and if a man only thinks about video games, I'd rather see him without kids than having 3 of them not taken care of.

For an "intellectual" personne like Kay Hymowitz, it is pretty imature to me to generalize on a vast group like that. Like some people posted earlier, it's a hate comment on a mass just like racism is.

I've got a girlfriend I've been going out with for 3 years, take care of her as my own life, I work hard to pay the bills, buy her gifts and I go to school to get a career to assure a good futur for my upcoming family. And guess what, I like video games a lot and did my whole life. If I was a man-teen or not manly enough, I wouldnt be going out with this very special girl.

So my message for Kay is: ignorance and frustration is obviously blinding you, bitch.

MHCJimQc

On a side note... I would much prefer a man playing Leisure Suit Larry compared to the guy who thinks he is one at a bar *cringe*

MelodyKitn

She is simply piling baseless claims on top of childish generalizations. Anyone can do that.

This would make a great article for introducing kids to critical reading skills regarding 'making claims'. This is an easy target.

KMCC

BigShao

David Sikes

So an inebriated person, a fight-starter, a Big Brother-watcher (shudder), and a failed lady-chaser are all considered more "mature" than someone who chooses to spend some portion of his leisure time experiencing an interactive medium that is simply the next stage of storytelling evolution (verbal/tribal histories -> put them in writing -> acted out on stage -> broadcast those performances over the radio -> then over the TV -> then in a larger scale on the movie screen -> interactive via game)? Right.

Yet here were men holding down serious careers by day, but infantalised (misspelling in original - chuckle) by night in a virtual world

Right, and the infantilization they experience in their virtual worlds is affecting their ability to hold down said serious career exactly how?

thejtrain

Ok but submit them in threefold then i'll lose them, find them, lose them again and eventually bury them under three feet of dirt.

Cchrist

angry_gamer

sedaris

BigShao

Project Thanatos

That's exactly why i use it!

Cchrist

SirCletus

Could also have been because you were that kind of idiot... i would have added a "don't leave me hanging guys!"

Cchrist

Come live here Ms.Kay Hymowitz: I'll give you 800 euro for your first month here.
If you do manage to get to the end, I'll give you another 800, otherwise you'll stop writing nonsense and get a real job.

Yatterman

Basically, she shoehorns women as being good for one thing only, to marry and reproduce.

...Okay, that's two things, but still.

An insult to third-wave feminists everywhere. Not the bad ones, mind you, I couldn't defend the facist types.

I won't comment on her views on men much, as everyone else already seems to have done that. What I will say is this: Does she want us men to be freakin' unhappy or something?!

Troubadour

NathanX

OUberLord

It's good to know she's so worried about her classmate's reproductive lives.

Sparkamus

Fraeon

Roto13

This woman is nore more then a stupid uninspired bitch whose womb is probably dust by now and she sounds bitter. I bet she doesnt have children.

dechire

That's a link to her books on Amazon.

Review away, people!

Sundermania

I keed..

But seriously, since when was marriage supposed to be a factor for maturity (weren't children as young as 14 forced into marriage in terms of security or simply tradition?). Hell, and here I thought the reason I married was for love.

And the man I married? Well darnit, I've played more video games and possibly owned more consoles than my dear, and he's proud to admit that. But he's also not afraid to go out, get a job, and still take time out to take me out for a walk in the park.

It's not that all male gamers haven't matured, it's that she doesn't take the time out of her busy little writer's narrow-minded life to find the ones who do go out there and make a difference, even while gaming. The ones who contribute to families in need when consoles seem the answer to a disability problem, or who've set up charities through video game playing to provide for children in need, hell, how about the creative chaps who mod systems and give off a whole boatload of artistic talent to keep the challenge of whether video games are indeed an art form a valid discussion.

There are too many negative articles to sink the world into an emo depression, so why not be more productive instead of finding a new way to bash the male ego, there's better things to write and read about, and this certainly isn't one of those things.

MelodyKitn

Honestly, this woman doesn't have a sweet clue what she's talking about.

Roto13

Sarcasm works over the Internet!
But only with the usual /sarcasm emote line.

angry_gamer

Dimipapa

BigShao

It's not women per se, it's the media women consume. People like Kay and the self help booklet crowd (including those "highly religious" kind, male or female) put themselves on a pedestal. They think too high of themselves and that they "deserve" more than they really do.

It's the same crap that the big monothesitc religions (and some polythesitic) has spewed for far too long. Everyone want to be special. Like in Final Fantasy X, they want to think of things as "their story".

Truth is, "average" is called "average" for a reason.

Also, see "Creep" by Radiohead.

angry_gamer

PissedPS3Fan

Wasn't very obvious...

*Breaking News!*
Sarcasm doesn't work on the internet!

Cchrist

brello

glemmstengal

let the games begin!

MonkeyBiz

ImBigBob

- Nagger
- Old maid
- Fuddy-duddy

Sorry, but in your make-believe world of empowering self-help booklets, reality is that most people are just average achievers. There's a reason why it is called average. It's what most people are! We just realize this and live out our fantasies in a fantasy world for 4-8 hours a week. While I'm on the subject of reusing old phrases here's another (paraphrased).

"How pathetic. You sound like chapters of a self-help booklet!"

angry_gamer

Sorry to double-post, but I just wanted to add that I've seen Divorzio all'italia, and I understand how flawed tradition can be. No, this isn't a shameless plug (or is it?).

Troubadour

Kotaku's Silent Assassin

What is the obsession with starting a family at 20 with these women? I have grad school to think of as well as setting the foundations for a career to, you know, support a family. I'll be unwed and a gamer for as long as I think it benefits society.

Anarchist_Gamer

Is this woman saying there is something wrong with manatees? Should someone inform PETA.

Also, I don't see how a manatee compares to someone playing video games. Are manatees the gamers of the sea?
I thought they were just blubbery and lovable sea creatures with cat-like curiosity, that oft-times rammed their faces into boat motors.
I'm a gamer, and I can testify that I have never rammed my face into any deadly spinning machines. Clearly her comparison is a failure.

NotJeff

What I was saying was, she shouldn't exactly be holding-up an Italian-style living situation as virtue. There's good and bad to it.

Furthermore, what is she smoking? I can't name a single woman who wouldn't walk away on the spot if a guy admitted that he "lives with his mom".

SnakeCL

mooseyfate

What is not praiseworthy, the girl's "old-world" minded family? I wasn't trying to glorify the whole family-oriented state of mind with Italians, just recall what I learned. Some aspects of it, like the girl you described, aren't all that great. Just wanted to clear things up.

Troubadour

Seriously though, if everyone is so offended, attack her ideas, not her. There are plenty of problems with her logic, like say, the fact that society constantly changes the definition of entertainment, and that the emergence of video games as a medium has no more effect on changing gender roles than any other form of media, and far less an effect than the ever-evolving needs of society (i.e. people need to stay single longer and search harder for a spouse so that they can be financially stable an beat the odds of divorce).

RandalGraves

UltimatePancakeSensation

Strangelove

kyosuke9999

cskozmo

TearsandScreams

Britain and the US have the longest working hours in the developed world - it's natural that we are going to want to enjoy what little leisure time with a bit of play.

cagool

BigShao

kate.muir@thetimes.co.uk

Sullyville

GOD

Here is a tip, ladies. Blowjobs without motives, expressing an interest in what your guy likes to do and getting to know his friends go a lot farther than telling us to grow up.

crazyscreenwriter

Mr.SithNinja

She needs to leave the Victorian age behind and move into modern times.

jayntampa

Let's not be so immature.

Cchrist

The real reason that marriage and families are on hold? The life expectancy is higher than it was 30 years ago. The education process takes longer than it did 30 years ago when you could make a living off a highschool diploma.

And, just on a side note..."Chick Lit"? SUCKS. So says the woman that reads at least 4 books a week in just about any fiction genre she can get her hands on. Should I write an article about how women who read "Chick lit" live in a fantasy world, and have juvenile taste in reading simply because I don't like it? No, that'd be silly.

Ajh

EmeraldDragon

TOCATL

Very true. I used to work with a girl from an "old world" Italian family. She would've been disowned had she attempted to move-out or go away for college (something she desperately wanted). Apparently, the only way out of the house was to (surprise surprise) get married.

I'm of part italian descent, and I definitely don't find that worthy of praise in any form.

SnakeCL

airzooka

Xagest