This is why I bought mine at Costco. I'm on my 4th. If it red rings I don't even bother calling those rubes - I just box it up and return it to Costco for a new one. Let MS eat that on the back end. Costco rules - it should be the ONLY place you buy a 360. Lifetime returns if it breaks.

Dancing Milkcarton

axiomatic

shakes

Maybe its just the region I'm in. I don't know very many people out here that own the console. If they do, they don't get online.

Sigma-D

Jerim

Are you suggesting that the majority of the console's problems are caused by negligence caused by a mass majority of the consumers? Are you suggesting that the majority consumer lacks the common sense of handling and caring for the consoles that are breaking? Are you suggesting this, when the majority of the other rival consoles are (and with good odds) handling and performing well under the same conditions?

That post is a slap in the face of the consumer that paid for a console that is expected to perform reasonably, and (in many cases) failed to deliver in the quality of reliability. I know that the ones that failed on me were cleaned regularly, in a reasonably dust-free and well ventilated environment, kept at normal room temperatures, and away from the speakers. Are you suggesting that my few that were turned in were handled negigently too?

The stats don't lie, and the conjecture seems ever apologetic of a piece of hardware that is filled with flaws.

Filled with flaws, since they keep RRoDing.

Soldier_CLE

banmojo

What are you guys doing to your Xbox 360 to cause the rRod? Everything in this world is cause and effect. If you sit on a couch and play video games 8hours a day for a full year(without excersie or proper diet), your stomach and ass will grow to disgusting proportions.
I'm not trying to be funny this is fact!

So, if you continue to treat your 360 like an orginal xbox, you get the rRod.

Ya know first it was the ring of death on the game disc.
And finally it is in a agreement that it just doesn't happen, the system (while on and with disc in play) must be moved or vibrated to CAUSE the ring of death (effect).
I have seen this first hand while working at my game store. People came in little angry mobs to complain that we sold them a broken system that scratches their game. And after two years of explaining how movement to the system (while on and game in play) causes this problem, people have calmed down and accepted the reality of their actions. And I see less people in my town coming to our store to have their disc repaired because they now know what not to do. And those that still come to have disc repaired, understand and aren't pissed off or claiming M$ screwed them.

So, rRod. What do I think causes it?

MIS-USE!

I hear all the stories of how it happened.
"Well, I didn't do anything, it was...
my roommate who kicked it"
it fell of my shelf"
my dog pissed on it"
my roommate left it ON over the weekend" (most common)
my kid gotta hold of it"
just kept falling over" (for those who set it vertical)
the dust"
my entertainment center doesn't have enough ventilation"
cause I dropped it, but it worked fine for month after"

but, my favorite was a guy who had sent his system in to Microsoft almost ten times because he didn't know NOT to set his system on his surround sound sub-woofer.
hmmmmmmm... ya mean I shouldn't set my 360 on a box that pushes out low end, house rumbling, frequences and oh yeah, has a giant magnet in it.

So, with my experience the cause has been mis-use.
Even with my own system. I had a launch system, no problems for two years, then Nov. '07, I got the rRod. Why?
Cause I set it vertical after a acquiring a new entertainment center. Because I had set it vertical, I suffocated the system(effect). It's wasn't M$ fault that I set my system in a way that M$ themselves advises not to do.
My fault. My problem. My responsibility.
I accepted it, and moved on with a better knowledge of how to take care of my XBOX 360.

DJGrimm

Wolfgeist

I quote from my blog post:

"[...] This was the final straw and after going through 5 consoles, I sold the 360 and bought a PlayStation 3 with the money.

As we speak, my Live Gold subscription is still running because I couldn't cancel it through telephone. Or so I was told by Support. Technically, you still are in possession of my 70$, of which I don't really complain about. At this point, I've given up almost all hope with getting good service, seeing as how I was lied to and presented with little to no choice in the outcome of my problems. [...]"

AuraHACK

bigdonthedj

On the other hand, I've also talked to people who've gone through multiple consoles because they encounter the RRoD so often, which I find incredible (and awful). So I guess it's hard to tell, overall. I'm just crossing my fingers that my shiny Elite remains functional. <3

Tsuzu

Hehe :)

JojoTheSlayer

The truth is that the RRoD 270 is (commonly) a faulty piece of equipment with the reliability of rolling three
"midnights" in a row on three consecutive rolls of a dice.

In other words, it isn't reliable.

And it is arbitrary and capricious to assume that the gamers-at-large are just fine with sending in a faulty piece of hardware that (for some of the targeted demographic) costs a paycheck to purchase via mail for a few weeks to get another "roll of the dice" piece of equipment, and is also just as (or more so) arbitrary and capricious to assume that the gamers with faulty equipment are fine with having to jump through hoops with the often condescending and ill-capable "Customer Service" contrators that seem to make us both laugh and wince at the thought of Microsoft Customer Care. The often-foriegn-and-thus-unintelligible-vernacular of the customer service reps that I have talked to for my RRoD problems have been nothing short of a headache, and makes me wonder if I will even bother with an RRoD 540 down the road. (Seriously, if you go through 5 brakedowns in 2 years, can you say that you've (truly) owned an RRoD 270 for said 2 years?

Please. As other consumers have suggested, there is no "Chain of Command" for an unsatisfied consumer to contact about their displeasure. If that were the case, then all the kudos would have to equally go through Customer Service to be sent up the chain, which we also know is a crock of shit.

Bottom Line: Make a quality piece of hardware, and you won't have to worry about the disgruntled consumer.

Besides, as the saying goes "The customer is always right!" (I can't wait to read the thrilling comments about the last sentence...)

Soldier_CLE

IMO, I think 50% of these 'RRoD victims' are just people claiming they have the problem when they probably don't. Its absolutely strange reading how a new person each day has a RRoD on their system. I mean, anybody can go on a forum and just blatantly say, 'oh, my xbox red ringed'. I'm just saying cause most of my friends have 360s that they've had since launch and haven't had any issues whatsoever.

Sigma-D

If I have repeated problems with your customer service department handling my case to my satisfaction, PARTICULARLY if we're talking about a piece of hardware that's notorious for failures under normal use (like the Xbox 360), I absolutely reserve the right to contact any and every executive in your company until I get what I've paid for.

If Microsoft sells me a defective product, its executives bear the responsibility of making it up to me if nobody else at the company will. The manager of a Macdonalds is responsible when the fry cook screws up; the same logic applies to corporate executives. Don't like it? Too bad.

ClankBoomSteam

Whole process went pretty smoothly; despite it being over Christmas/New Year's, it took ~3 weeks.

Tsuzu

cactaur

Guvnah

Snukadaman_

Mr Fresh - that is the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard....seriously.

iToke

DrFresh

EmeraldDragon

smitherssocal

O RLY? I hear a lot of stories of the annoyances people have to deal with...

BPMΣ

Sigma-D

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

Anyway ring O' death now so off it goes.

chip5541

Nothing wrong with that. That is how it works MSFT. That is corporate and consumer America!

EnigmaNemesis

Good on the guy for going to Gates - it's probably the only way he'd have gotten a resolution. All we got was some twat saying that what we were calling about was impossible [our xbox was scratching game discs during play to the point of them being unplayable], that we were obviously lying and that they would do nothing about it.

Maybe they should take some notice of this, because someone wouldn't have gone to Billy-boy if they had been able to get decent service further down the chain.

Hedgeworth

aribus

Monday afternoon/night I spend a total of 4 hours on the phone with customer service between 5 different phonecalls and 7 different customer service reps trying to get an issue resolved and to sum up the outcome, I was told 'yeah, we can do that, but for your case, we're not going to.'

Way to help out someone who's been part of the rabid fanbase since BOTH launches...it's sad, really.

JerrD74: ..drawing a blank

TWEEDLEDEEDEEZ

..I'm frickin serious guys. Lets do this. Kotaku-warlords: FIRE BACK at M$! That's a frickin slap in the face to you guys and us as consumers. Just let the comments of stories roll out on a long ass page and just send them back that link, while giving it a lot of press coverage!

We need to take initiative here. Bill was kind enough to help out, but if microsoft is going to be ignorant at the current situation, its time we stop following them around and show them that it's US, the consumers and gamers who shell out $300+ for their not-so-reliable console to fund their paychecks!

Zero2007

Enigma_20XX

Love the console, but give me my $142 or 11,400 microsoft points that you owe me you sleazy jerks!

JerrD74: ..drawing a blank

Tei

who the hell does microsoft think they are talking to? as consumers we will contact whoever the godamn hell we please. we're not their employees and i could care less about "appropiate channels"

Xamot

There is no inappropriate channel. There may be ineffective ones (like the ones MS would prefer you use, from what I understand), but there is is no inappropriate one.

TechnoDestructo

D3Anon

TLDR

Revolution0620

;-)

iToke

Billkwando

iToke

mferrari

- Guy buys unit, DOA
- Guy gets unit fixed after much hassle (before the days of Microsoft accepting their unit's failure rates)
- Microsoft tosses in some swag for his inconvenience.
- Few YEARS later it happens again, after Microsoft has become more understanding of hardware failures.
- So instead of going through the same channels as you or I, he just writes to Gates.
- Gets a new system swiftly.

He really had no reason to email executives. Now if he went through the normal customer service channels and was getting the run-around, like many of us get unfortunately, then escalating to the top is perfectly understandable. According to my physics teacher in highschool, crap runs downhill.

Dick.Blake

You know what they say - replacements DO NOT count as sales....I too wonder how inflated their numbers are....

iToke

I mean, seriously. What did they think was going to happen?

Big World

noelix

Please add a bloody web browser or I will be buying a PS3!

octree

In one more year the early adopters will no longer have the 3 year warranty for the RRoD. Can Microsoft say with a straight face that they have made substantial steps forward to deal with the ongoing RRoD problem so many of us are experiencing (my 3rd box in 17 months is in for RRoD right now) at this rate I'll be up to my 7th or 8th box by the time my 3 year runs out. Microsoft seems to just be putting off this problem wishing it would go away.

With my amazing psychic abilities I foresee the **** hitting the fan fall of '08 when gamers who are on their umpteenth 360 and it dies and Microsoft's solution is to either pay them to repair a problem they seem unable to reliably fix or just go out and buy another one of our boxes! Yeah I think it will go just short of riots in front of the Microsoft's Corporate headquarters. Of course thats when they can have someone come out and explain how Microsoft has done so much to guarantee a great experience with the Xbox 360.

Another thought, how inflated do you think their 360 numbers are from people exchanging their dead xboxes for new ones at stores where they also picked up an extended warranty?

lostalaska

And that includes gems such as insurance companies, mechanics, even other car companies.

I don't think they have any training or requeriments for their call centers beyond "be alive, speak english". Oh and being in India, that last one is important. Bet they get paid based on how impossible their accent is to make out.

I should also mention that they are notoriously incompetent.

Seiryuu

Mii

Blake Ruff

Kirbytheslayer: In-Kirby XMB

Luuey

I wouldn't suggest freaking out about it....and when you use examples like that, I would say no-you don't go straight to the top dog....but when it is something that is notorious for its hardware flaws, and known to consistently fail on the consumer, than why is that not a plausible course of action to take? Something needs to be done to get MS to take action, they need to actually attempt to fix the problem...not just deal with it with an extended warranty and a "easy" replacement process.

And don't use a car as an example, that is lame. If a vehicle was put out for the general public to purchase, and said model of car went through similar flaws and mishaps, I am sure they would rush to recall, as it is not safe. I bet if 33% of a new Toyota truck or something failed on people, they would probably take action. But hey, it's only a video game console right? No need to take immediate action...I guess....but when will they?

iToke

Nayl

Mr.SithNinja

FearlessUser

mariospants

True, I mean it is a known fact that the 360 is really only big in the states, sure it sells outside of the states-but not NEARLY as well....very true how you say that people in EU or JPN are used to more quality products.

iToke

Microsoft is no different in regards to responsibility. More people should have escalated to Bill and the problem would have been fixed much quicker in all likelihood.

invictus

I used to work at a warranty company--and they had the same BS attitude. They could screw over customers to no end as long as the situation was set up so that low-level customer service reps and 'supervisors' with no real power were the only ones who ever took heat for it. This is why products like the 360 don't make it well outside the US----many people in places like Japan and Europe are used to higher quality products, unfortunately so many companies pull crap here in the US your average consumer has become complacent because they think they just got the bad end of an 'innevitable' accident resulting from mass production, when the reality is that even mass produced products can be high quality but the key is the demographic has to know and has to demand it--otherwise the consumer will ALWAYS get shanked.

Zookey

Great story for PR though.

fuchikoma

After all, why obfuscate your e-mail address when you can dump 90% of the incoming e-mails to your "VP of customer service" or somebody else beneath you?

evslin

I think escalating to the higher-ups should be reserved for people in extreme circumstances so we as consumers maintain our trump cards so they are effective tools, but that is our prerogative. NOT M$'s! We don't need them to tell us what is an is not appropriate. There is a time and a place for everything.

warf0x0r

I wish they would improve on the DVD drive. My Halo 3 Special Edition 360 sounds like jet throttling to afterburner when games load up.

DigitalHero

fanty

Flawless101

Dude wouldn't have to do that if the thing didn't break...again. I know if my PS3 broke...twice for that matter, I would definitely try contacting someone "up there" instead of speaking with some lame CSR again, half of the time those people don't sympathize, they just see it as "another" call. It obviously worked for dude...I don't see the problem at all, well I do - the problem is the console...not the action the guy took.

iToke

Saying that Bill Gayes works "Part Time" is kinda funny....

*Imagines Bill Gates filling out a timesheet*

Funny.

fanty

FP Shindokie

FearlessUser

True true true.
People should start trying to do this...maybe then Bill would push MS to actually fix the hardware flaw instead of just dealing with it like they are.

iToke

Heyyou27

Soldier_CLE

Soldier_CLE

wrathofzeus

FearlessUser

Kotaku Readers to M$FT: Don't Tell Gamers How To Resolve Their Purchased Faulty 360 Equipment Problems

It was a little stunning to learn today that at least one disgruntled Microsoft PR person had decided to skip the common sense when dealing with a bunch of burnt out 360s and instead went straight to Kotaku to cry about it. Even more stunning, The anonymous MSFT employee apparently bitched and moaned about some customer getting the problem sorted out in record time (24 hours).

While Consumerist reader, and Xbox 360 owner, Anonymous MSFT PR worker was delighted with the outcome, it seems THE GAMERS were not so much. Today they've dropped us a friendly reply to remind everyone at MSFT that gamers really aren't your go-to method for your faulty Red Rings of Death resoltions:

FROM THE GAMERS:
***Bill Gates or Microsoft executives are an appropriate escalation point for customer service issues if the equipment issues are not able to be resolved, partially because of their shoddy methods of hiring outsourced, barely English-speaking customer service contractors with no concept of customer service (oddly, since their section is called "Customer Service") is unacceptable. The contracting of Customer Service", since is also just as subpar as the overseas contractors, is also unacceptable. Customers experiencing issues with their Xbox 360 console should contact Microsoft Executives if their complaints and issues are not resolved so that they understand that this is a serious issue on their hands. Your customer service team is ill-equipped, improper in handling and uncouthed to ensure that the repair (and customer)process goes smoothly.***

That said, Microsoft Gamers stand behind their lines in waiting for products to return, and takes responsibility to ensure that every Xbox 360 console owner continues to have a fantastic gaming experience whenever they recieve their replacements in the mail, while other gamers still play on the rival systems. We are continually improving the design and performance of the Xbox 360 consoles to decrease the likelihood that a customer will experience the three flashing red lights. Instead, they will experience three green flashing lights, so that we can argue that we won't have to fix any further systems. In the event they do complain, they may covered for three years under our extended warranty to shut people up, while they continue to look at other fine gaming examples, like Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, World of Warcraft, and eventually Starcraft II.

Wow, can you imagine the spin machine that the PR Department will attempt, when gamers laugh at the previous PR reminder? That MSFT PR rep, I suspect, may be retarded, and he or she is probably just is THAT retarded.

Soldier_CLE

Custom Reality

FoxHoundADAM

Bgrngod

bangbangblah

homernoy

Sailorcancer

KEELr

terry2070

DangerChimp

"Bill Gates or Microsoft executives are not an appropriate escalation point for customer service issues. Customers experiencing issues with their Xbox 360 console should contact Xbox Customer Service. Our customer service team is well equipped to ensure that the repair process goes smoothly."

Stop calling Bill with your tech support questions! Please call our "customer service" line and wait on hold for an hour and a half before we have some idiot pick up the phone. They will then proceed to tell you your system is out of warranty and refuse to help you.

"That said, Microsoft stands behind its products and takes responsibility to ensure that every Xbox 360 console owner continues to have a fantastic gaming experience."

Unless of course you have installed third party hardware, like an extra fan, or a NYKO Intercooler, which breaks your warranty. Even if it's our updates that brick your system, we will point the finger at Nyko for all eternity. You are not getting your $400 back!

"We are continually improving the design and performance of the Xbox 360 consoles to decrease the likelihood that a customer will experience the three flashing red lights. In the event they do, they are covered for three years under our extended warranty."

We are continually trying to fix our epic fuckup with the 360 by rushing it out the door to beat Sony. If we do ever manage to completely obliterate the RRoD, rest assured that you will not be getting one of those replacement 360s should yours break. We are perfectly happy sending you refurbished crap until you get sick of us. Thanks for calling Micro$oft.

MasonL87

jwrose

WoodyNvincible

As for Gates and M$oft, they're a huge corporation. There's only so much you can expect. If any other large multinational had a keystone product failure rate as high as the 360, their response would be the same at best and more likely much worse.

Go Bill!

DangerChimp

deadlizard

flukielukie

I wonder what convinced him to make sure this guy a new console. It was a nice gesture, but really won't help the other people who are on their fifth or sixth console.

Zombie Attack!!

I was asking for compensation from the supervisor and he said he didn't have to give me anything and wouldn't then later he offers me something. He just plain lied to me.

Its just stupid and unfair, there should be more money by MS put into fixing the problem once and for all -.-

flukielukie

thinkfreemind

Actually, no. There is only one Bill Gates. Not an army of customer service people. So it would actually suck a lot more.

BtownDesignGuy

Ben Popken

Covert_Knight

aaa

What The Geek

AlteredBeast

theGimp

evslin

So yes, it worked, but I agree you should try every other option before bothering the big guys, otherwise it will lose effectiveness.

AlteredBeast

wild_world_girl

Applekid

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