Final-Fan

Elrinth

--Core--

You know I honestly can't answer that question. I mean a car is pretty big, big enough to fit at least 2 machine guns on it, plus rocket launchers, bombs and maybe some other weapons. To put just A gun on a car seems like such a waste of potential.

Father-Time

Twisted Metal would win EASILY. In fact Vegas would put the odds of Mario Kart winning as NOW WAY IN HELL:1

The guys at Twisted Metal drive around vehicles that can withstand all sorts of missiles, bombs and of corse machine gun fire. Mario uses go-karts that can be temporarily subdued by wait for it . . . A BANANA PEEL. Not only that but the weapons Mairo Kart uses cannot even destroy the other karts, they just stop or slow them down and the karts recover in mere seconds. Twisted Metal uses REAL firepower, the kind that can actually DESTROY other cars as well as small buildings. Now picture a Mario Kart, the kind that can be subdued by a flyng turtle shell. Now imagine what would happen if we shot missiles at it. Although Mario kart never really had a chance. Think of it this way, Go-karts vs. cars, tanks, and ice cream trucks.

The way I see it mario kart will fire shells at the others which will bounce off harmlessly before being mowed down by missiles, machine gun fire and other nasty weapons.

Twisted Metal in 8 seconds.

Father-Time

also, the people saying miyamoto is overrated, seriously, are you that desperate for attention?

GSGomez

I'm sure both game developers would smile at that.

pylon_trooper

aphexacid

VakeroRokero

Faradin

Ultrasinc

Why did he ask Jaffe that question?

sainraja

I think Jaffe's response was goooood!

sainraja

matteblender

okenny :)

djt23

kennyd1

king0v10GU

MrSatan

@EnigmaNemesis: Hey you joined in on the fun. It seems you like to roll on piles of crap too.

Nabilac

Here is Miyamoto's question, posed to someone outside of the scope of the question by a 3rd party. Jaffe does his usual humorous response and he owned somebody? lol, tis a sad world we live in.

Btw...retro stopped making the game and made Metroid Prime...so as awesome as the car combat game may have been. I, for one, am happy it got canned.

majatt

ebrake

The reason why Jaffe was pissed about the reviews on Calling All Cars was that they were reviewing the unfinished game and criticizing an aspect of the game that was fixed before final release. Yeah he still took it a little too personally though.

And I agree with some others on here that Miyamoto is overrated. His games were great, but these days I dont think he's so great. His questioning of Twisted Metal's use of guns is stupid too. Yes MK is better but guns are more logical to use than turtle shells and banana peels.

PSN ID: Kadaj24

altgod

Spiffyness

Ed

NESv1

sweetie55

Squamden

Natpalm

Luke Plunkett

matteblender

Maybe Miyamoto just couldn't grasp the concept of wanting an unnecessarily violent game?
I mean, everybody is taking it as "Your game design sucks" or "It makes no sense."
He could have been saying "Well, that's just mean."

This is a guy who gardens and goes for walks for inspiration. You have to remember, he's just an innocent child exploring the world (metaphorically) first, and a game designer second.
This principle, which makes him a brilliant game designer, also makes him incapable of seeing that sort of point of view.

Kirbytheslayer: In-Kirby XMB

I apologize.

Billkwando

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

SanityMask

Needs moar Bananaphone.

Billkwando

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

thaKingRocka

Delano_J

zanzibarlegend

Atilla_the_Nun

MosquitoControl

Yeah, my fanboy meter is going nuts right now.

MGS sucks, by the way. And yes, I've played it.

Ignatius

Yes, because anyone who doesn't worship Miyamoto needs to be banned post-haste.

Huh?

If anyone deserves worship its Kojima at this point. (that's probably just my MGS fanboy talking)

SnakeCL

It was a red snapper. I like that version better.

@Foxstar Sixtail:

Agreed. Needs moar sense of humor and less mindless fanboyism.

Billkwando

Very well-crafted, but not necessarily fun. Boring and derivative are also adequate descriptors.

Maybe you have to have had grown-up with Mario to geit it. I sure don't

SnakeCL

Exactly. He thought having a car game with guns was stupid because it's more exciting to have cars crash into each other than shooting each other. I agree, which is why even though I like both, I prefer Burnout over say, Vigilante 8 (not that they're the same thing, but...)

And there's no need to compare Miyamoto and Jaffe, as I don't think he meant any ill will and Jaffe was just defending his franchise. But the comments here about Miyamoto just churning out the same thing and not being creative...um, how many games do you guys play that are amazing bit of revolutionary genius every installment? Gears of War? Grand Theft Auto III/Vice City/Stories/IV? People judge Nintendo for releasing a lot of Mario games, but they never play them enough to discover they're almost all very well-crafted and fun.

Mikintosh

4eternal

SSJPabs

Anything Miyamoto touches is rehashed bullshit anyways, so to point out the fact that he did another God Of War (oh no a sequel, clearly it's outliving its relevance!), or another TM (made a bit of time after Mario Kart) is irrelevant.

Naysaying Miyamoto automatically makes a person an anti-nintendo fanboy as previously stated, but that man is overrated as fuck. At least Jaffe has the courage to say something about it, however crude it may be.

Mortos

logicaldefense

Those who say Miyomoto's games are rehashed with new gimmicks need to realize what the definition of innovation is. What FPS besides Portal is innovating anything right now? I suppose the new GTA is gonna be completely new, right? No old concepts are happening in that one. I suppose the new DMC or Ninja Gaiden are gonna be completely different too, right? OMG God of War II has done so much to change the way action/adventure games are made!!!! It was so different from the first one thanks to Jaffe.

Just because you want to hate on Nintendo and call what they do gimmicks doesn't make it truth. To me putting guns on a car is way more of a gimmick than anything Nintendo has done with their hardware or software. Don't get me wrong, I loved Twisted Metal II. But everything after that was the same exact game!(except not as fun) It got old quick. You can place your bets that the new Twisted Metal will not be any different.

I give it to whoever wrote the story for God of War, although it's completely off the wall to think this one guy could be killing gods and rewriting Greek mythology, I'll give him credit for being creative in that way.

But Jaffe didn't do that, so he gets no credit from me.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Miyomoto spend more time actually running the company than developing games now? In other words, he himself is not a developer anymore, he's moved up the chain of command. So if I'm correct, he couldn't be overrated. You can't be an overrated developer if you're not a developer. He's the face of Nintendo, so of course his name is going to be on everything they do, he's representing the whole company.

This is mostly a response to other posters, not what Jaffe said. Hopefully this was the bitch rant to end all bitch rants on this thread.

TDub301

Jaffe is 100% correct.

SnakeCL

TriFF51

This is 100% correct. And, for the people who didn't notice, Jaffe's comment wasn't witty or funny. He was just trying to be cool, bashing an icon that is in a league Jaffe could never in his whole life reach. And also, I'm sure that Miyamoto quote is ridiculously out of context.

And anyone who downplays how much Miyamoto has influenced the industry must either be really young or just... uninformed.

NeverSage

Wolf_Dog

SpiralJacobs

Foxstar Sixtail

Torgo

AwShucks

AsWater

NeverSage

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that all us males are like sailors, but Jaffe does it in text, in public, constantly.

It reminds me of a eunich in a corvette: he's overcompensating. "Guys, I might be a game developer, but I'm not a nerd, I'm cool, I bang groupies with sharks, too! I'll drive my Pantera drunk and kill lesser developers! I'll refuse to release my game so long that Canadians will revolt! I'm not a nerd, I'm a rockstar! Crap boobs crap! Hell damn fart!"

Guy's a tool. He's made some solid games, but he's a tool.

MosquitoControl

Just because Miyamoto was trying to get his team to think creatively doesn't mean that he would've disapproved of anything Jaffe's done. This is what happens when people take things out of context.

Dex

Jet Set

@KirbyMorph: I'm so glad you're familiar with what Miyamoto does on a day-to-day. Does the guy lead teams rather than design entire games nowadays? Sure. But read any interview with people that work with him, and they all say the same thing -- he is crucial to their designs and makes a big impact with directing the project's course.

Huckleberry

Ampillion = That Man.

EnigmaNemesis

Oh them Japanese, so full of banana peel shooting culture.

You post is made of silly!

EnigmaNemesis

pandafresh

dead_red_eyes

sneakymofo

Dancin_Fool

Hyperfludd

Twisted Metal was never the balanced awesome game that Mario Kart is...and he wished it sold a tenth as well.

They shoot peels because Nintendo says so.....you sir Jaffe are certainly NO Nintendo.

Admonisher

SpiralJacobs

Psycho much?

@doubtful:

Over-analyze much?

@Billkwando:

Say "much" much?

C'mon guys, you're taking witty comment way too far and acting like crazy ass All in the Family fans.

Billkwando

Hmm, so bannana peels are there to make it less fun than Twisted Metal. It all makes sense now...

SuperMaxZero

HJungle

Mokona

The meaning here is incredibly easy to understand. He was simply telling Miyamoto that he used a similar concept too, so he shouldn't criticize.

Ashurahori

it would be real fun!
Have you ever tried real Kart racing?
Well, there's a thing called adrenaline that makes it lots more exicting than Mario Kart...

Seinrien

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

KevSlider

Gas Powered Goose

What I was just initially irked about is that it seemed like you were saying 'Who cares what X has done for the industry (Nintendogs, Ocarina of Time, Pikmin), I like God of War better, screw him.' Hey, if I saw Jaffe on the street and he acted like this, I'd probably punch him in the face. (In SFIII Dudley-style, no less. Toss a rose over my shoulder, "Gutter trash.") That doesn't mean I can't respect the fact that God of War or Twisted Metal is a good game.

Again, not being the Jaffe of Kotaku is a good thing!

Ampillion = That Man.

Zero2007

Gavelwrench

Nabilac

I'm pretty sure he was only involved in 2 or 3 of the Twisted Metals over the last 10 years.

David Jaffe was involved with:

Twisted Metal - 1995
Twisted Metal 2 - 1996
Twisted Metal: Black - 2001
Twisted Metal: Head On - 2008

and:

God of War - 2005
God of War II - 2007
God of War III - 2009

of course he's also got some other great titles on his resume like:

Mickey Mania - 1994

Other than those, he's only worked on two other completed games (Kinetica and Calling All Cars!), so 70% of his resume is recycled.

Not that I care if it is. I'm just arguing that, for those defending Jaffe, saying Miyamoto is recycling and Jaffe is all original ideas is disingenuous.

My issue is with Jaffe and his idiotic tirades and curse laden drivel. He should be representing the gaming industry well, but instead he gives the media a data point on their assumption that gamers are nothing but boys who think it is cool to drop an f-bomb every third word. He is what is wrong with the gaming industry.

doubtful

Rzarekta

Rzarekta

Don't be the Jaffe of Kotaku, is all I'm saying.

Ampillion = That Man.

majortom1981

Rzarekta

Ampillion = That Man.

Paul

Rzarekta

SOURCE PLZ

HAGE

Rzarekta

People are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. It was a joke in response to what was basically Miyamoto indirectly bashing Twisted Metal when he told Retro not to make a car with guns on them game. He didn't claim Miyamoto was the worst designer ever or that he was a rehash expert or anything of the sort. Can't you people just laugh at a joke and move on? I swear, Ninteno fans can't get off the guys nuts long to realize when something's a joke.

And Miyamoto is the most overrated developer CURRENTLY. He had his hay day and should be respected for the enormous contributions to gaming, but he's not the man he used to be and most of the 'omg innovationz' aren't even coming from him, but the dozens of nameless and underappreciated developers doing all the work and brainstorming. He's basically the quirky old guy that puts his name on everything but doesn't really do anything himself.

KirbyMorph

At least Jaffe moves on to new projects and tries new things.

Like Twisted Metal and God of War! New things! :)

doubtful

Ampillion = That Man.

Blunt personal opinion:

The only reason the Nintendo titles sell well is that for some reason people like the characters from their childhood. At least Jaffe moves on to new projects and tries new things. Adding waggle and a balance board are just gimmicks -- albeit ones that sell.

It's the same rehashed games over and over. Hell fans of the various series can barely tell some of the games apart by now. If that is what they like it's fine, but it's not like Shig is any more special than some other random guy like Jaffe. He might just be even less special for wanting to dumb down and rehash the same products over and over. Shig is the Thomas Kinkade of the game industry. I'm sure Nintendo is more than happy with that fact.

Mongoosekun

k!dman

Toasticus

I'm not arguing that you can't like God of War or that you should like Miyamoto's games. I'm arguing that if Jaffe, as you implied was slighting Miyamoto for recycling that he doesn't have a leg to stand on because he recycles, too.

doubtful

z357x

CaptLtrl

Rzarekta

"Well, Miyamoto, if you are gonna ask such a dumb question, I can ask you one back you stupid, over-rated, recycler of old material bitch."

Recycler of old material bitch?

How many Twisted Metals have there been? Gods of War? Seems like Jaffe's recycling his fair share. I certainly won't argue that Miyamoto hasn't been invested in the various Mario games for a long time, but it hardly seems like Jaffe could make the criticism you suggest since he's also doing his part to save the planet.

doubtful

Banana peels are the classic Vaudevillian spoof: people step on them and they slip. Take it to the next level and cars slip, or spin out, on them.

As has already been mentioned, they happen to also be the weapon of choice of a certain gorilla in the Mario series of games.

He didn't answer the question; he insulted another designer who hadn't slighted him. What is the point? To make anonymous swear-loving internet dwellers get a knobby for him?

Seriously, Jaffe, Shut up and get to work on God of War III.

doubtful

Rzarekta

/thread. It's not a "Touché", it's not a "ZOMG PWNED!!!1", it's not even a "Nice one, Jaffe!" It's a "Dude, the karts don't throw them." And, to me, it just makes Jaffe look like a prick.

CheekyLee

EVILLAMA

mikeymatrix

SpiralJacobs

Just kidding, but the small car classes in GT are kinda like what Superstar90 describes.

FranUnFine

Mario makes boring sports fun, like tennis and golf.

Superstar90

Shiggy was bitter over that whole R.C. Pro AM game. Guns AND bombs on cars.

I love how simple Miyamoto's solutions and reasons are sometimes. "Why would you do that? (idiots)"

ncsbert

Ampillion = That Man.

Why the fuck does half the shit that happens in video games happen?

Please die ASAP Jaffe.

DrunkenNinja12

Miyamoto was CHALLENGING Retro to justify their design, and clearly they couldn't come up with anything better than "people like driving games, and people like shooting games, so PUT EM TOGETHER AND WHADDYA GOT?"

"Why would you make that?" is a much broader question than you guys are making it out to be.

LAWL @ "Miyamoto is overrated"

HAGE

Torusan

Toasticus

TalKeaton: A Force to be Reckoned With

Also, must we always defend a developer by bashing another one? All I see are "Fuck Jaffe, Miyamoto rules!" or "Miyamoto is overrated. Jaffe speaks the truth!" I think they both mke pretty awesome games.

Vindiana_Jones

Sqwerell

If he really just didn't understand the concept, well, it's probably because he's spent so long working with the abstract that gaming based around more realistic ideas just might not be his bag of tricks and just didn't understand how you'd make a fun game with it. Then again, I've always thought Jaffe was an asshat who thought it was cool to swear whenever he felt like it so he could score 'bitchin' rebellious guy' points.

Ampillion = That Man.

cocks

Kanadwen

littletad

I guess he never saw James Bond movies.

djkibblesnbits

Captain Internet

kennyd1

Hugoku

sedaris

PirateThom

I_Hate_This_Place

Retropants regrets nothing

asphix20

el_rezzo

I believe thats the point. Miyamoto questions the method behind others designs when his make the least sense of them all.

I mean, a mushroom that makes you grow to giant proportions?

That said, its the wacky and out-of-this-world ideas that I usually like the most.

asphix20

creid

Dave jaffe: Sitting oin a glass house and playing iwth a slingshot.

Marasai

gaiking

sedaris

Steel_Pelican

-EDGE-

tuelpo

Someone had to say it, and you know, In am kinda in agreement. Does that make me not a hardcore gamer? Or a anti-nintendo fanboy? I dont know. But as I get older, and miyamotos very polished shovel wear continues to fail at innovating, I am starting to doubt him as the creative genius he is touted as.

Belain

kennyd1

brello

I think Jaffe can be seen as overrated, depending on opinion. God of War, the game that made him a celeb, was awesome but it only seemed to aim to perfect action games, not revolutionize them. I do, however, love the way he speaks his mind in interviews, which is why he's gotten so big. If comapanies with the same pedigree (Infinity Ward, Bungie or Irrational (2K Boston?)) had a hilariously obnoxious spokesman like him I'm not sure we'd be paying too much attention to him right now.

CHU BOI

Ha, beat me to it!

sedaris

geeez...

hondo

sedaris

I hope he never dies. Yes, I said it.

blacksamurai87

badasscat

bastardcake

Jesse in Japan

Yeah man, what did Miyamoto ever do?

bastardcake

Lockenator

Lstormy10

/me wants a GOOD Interstate '76 sequel. Funk + V8 + guns attached = win

/me also thinks of her two most favourite rigger characters who drove a nicely equipped Rolls Royce Phaeton/VW Integra SP (third most favourite rigger drove a Saab Dynamite and was more laid out for speedy getaways).

FranUnFine

new_pornographer

What would an competitive monkey throw? Napalm.The only thing interesting is the fact that, the concept of a monkey throwing bananas some how mystified Jaffe, but then again the guy runs his mouth more than he makes games.

He had that awesome game last year that everybody was talking about it was......Oh wait Jaffe didn't have jack squat last year. Yes yes.

zsavior

Neutral_Fanboy

Are we seriously having this discussion?

Does somebody actually spend time thinking about how the "physics" of Mario Kart relate to real life?

Sorry but I'm too busy actually enjoying the game I paid for.

Nothing wrong with guns on cars either ;-)

JimElNino

Candlejack

A dinosaur with unbelievably balanced driving skills, similar to Michael Schumacher.
A plant that can drive even though it doesn't have eyes. (Yeah dude, Petey's effin' blind, WTF, unsafe!)
Mushrooms that somehow convert into nitro in under a second.

Never made sense in the first place. But isn't that why we love Mario Kart?

CHU BOI

photoboy

HurricaneDave

Billkwando

maiky-nisute

sUKi