The big issue with DRM, as I see it, is that it ties the ability of the consumer to play the game to the success of the company who wrote it. So if valve goes out of business and their steam servers are liquidated, no more half-life 2 for me. And just because valve is doing well, that's not certain to continue. I never thought Bear Stearns would go out of business, but *poof* there it went.

silario

pixelacious

johnny_decepticon

Callofdutyftw

Jamie_W

taomaster99

In a nutshell, I'm saying that piracy gives the option of redistributing some of the profit from games that are already deeply in the black to games that are less popular.

I'm not saying that's how it works NOW, but it could work that way, at least sort of, in the future. Look at the Buy Zack and Wiki! campaign. I'm not sure how successful it was, but there's at least a segment of the market that wants to support games they think are innovative. I don't see anything wrong with running, say, a Pirate Halo 3 and Use the Money to Buy Zack and Wiki! campaign.

Innovation suffers because consumers as well as producers have limited means. Consumers tend to put their money toward a "sure bet" for a game they'll enjoy just as producers put their money toward surefire sellers. Which leads to all the sequels and repetition. But if a segment of the gaming population pirated the big hits and gave their money to new types of games...

You can say it's selfish all you want, but people don't want to give up the sure thing. If they have to choose, they'll always choose the sure thing, and that's what's stifling innovation. So letting people have the sure thing AND the not-sure thing for the same price is really the only way to get people to put their money on the not-sure thing.

And in my book, in THAT scenario, everybody wins.

erlik

erlik

GOTC? Game of the Crotch?

I am not good with acronyms.

Billkwando

ERazER

---

It's illogical. You've downloaded every game for free. You haven't bought a thing. You're no longer part of the Industry. No leverage. None.

rainofwalrus

This is such a selfish attitude. If you get enjoyment from something that someone has taken the time and effort to make, it has value. Instead, you become another anonymous statistic throwing a big, virtual "Fuck You" to the developer. Go you.

Besides, gaming is subjective. There's plenty of people who would disagree with your idea of what constitutes a "good" game. Case in point: BioShock - the game that polarised opinion. Should we all buy it, or pirate it?

Your idea of using piracy to steer the industry relies on everyone sharing the same opinion. Surely the discussion on this comments thread alone shows that this just isn't going to happen...

:)

Jakey2.0

erlik

My argument has not, and has never been that people should pay because the games aren't "worth their time and money."

*sigh*

erlik

Then I ask, why are you playing it if it's not worth your time and money? If piracy didn't exist, perhaps you would have bought it.

The fact that it's possible to get games without spending a dime gives people an awkward choice to make and a weird 'purchase worthy' meter.

No matter how much anybody tries to justify piracy, it's simply not justifiable. There are ALWAYS ways for you to get the game.

Buying used is bad? Ok, then if YOU buy a used game, then it's gone from the shelves and someone else will not buy this one but rather a new copy because there are no used ones available.

Everything we do has consequences.

interstate78

Unless you meant to say that my argument is irrelevant because not enough people will ever do it to make it work. In which case, let me point out that the same argument is used to avoid doing something about just about every cause imaginable. But it has to start somewhere.

For the record, I don't pirate many games at all, and all the ones I do are several years old (I can't run anything newer). And pirating on consoles is just a pain in the ass. So this isn't about making myself feel better or justifying my own actions.

erlik

Half-life, for example, came out later than planned, and was a bit behind the curve in graphics. It achieved its sales by being a moderate hit over a long period of time, staying on the shelves as more and more people became capable of running it.

There may be a lot of 3D-accelerated games, but not many that pushed the envelope spec-wise. At least, not according to the list I checked: [en.wikipedia.org]

If your list says otherwise, please let me know which list it is.

And thanks for your sympathy about the weak-ass Radeon 9600 in my laptop.

erlik

Rather, I'm advocating looking at the market, making a rational choice as to where to put your dollars (for example, helping out a good game that needs sales), and then using piracy to get the game you really want to play. If everyone did this, we could move the industry away from the mega-hit model by redistributing funds more equitably, and encourage more innovative games by voting with our money in that direction.

It'll never happen, I know, because the two camps inevitably seem to be "I don't need to spend a single fucking dollar on games because I can pirate EVERYTHING" and "Pirating is always wrong, that's what my Sunday School teacher said!" But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

And the idea that somehow, somewhere, someone is helped by buying used games instead of pirating: sure, it helps the guy on Ebay or Gamestop. But the developer/publisher gets exactly ZERO dollars from it, same as a pirated copy.

You can deny yourself gaming experiences if you want, but not buying the game and pirating the game and playing it have the exact same outcome for the people who made the game. The only one who feels the difference is you.

erlik

Hand_O_Death

Hell, these asshats probably pirate $10 games anyway.

RawSteelUT

I say there are rules for purchasing right if you're a cheap-o-lio

1- Get the demo if you wanna try it
2- Buy off eBay--you can get awesome deals on there
3- Wait for price-drops

The whole "but it's too expensive" crap is nonsense.

Games usually last at least 10 hours. At 50$ that's 5 bucks an hour. Usually, games are longer and often cost less than that.

Don't be whiny bitches.

interstate78

Pantsman

Someone else also said that we should ignore the piracy numbers and focus on the sales numbers. This implies that there is no correlation between the two. You have to assume that at least a percentage of the people that pirated the software would have paid for it if that were their only choice. Saying that the piracy numbers don't matter is narrow-minded and stupid.

iamfalcon

There is no key to insert in installing the game, no worries, just pick it up and install it!! you can even copy the folder to an external drive, go to work, copy it anywhere you want, and just double click wow.exe to play! your only authunicated through your service account, you don't have to memorize your cd key/activation key by heart to play it after reinstallation. It's a great module and the fact you have to initiate your account with a credit card helps out in maintaining some restrictive barrier to secure their platform from cheaters and like.

Plsk1n

Zunnoab

Klopfer123

robinhood_0

But punishing your users with DRM/rootkits/spyware who PAID YOU MONEY is not the answer.

The minute you fuck with the operation of my PC, it's war.

Guess what else, I always win. Know why that is? Because I won't buy your games if they are dripping with DRM. (Yeah, I'm talking to you 2kGames.)

axiomatic

Piracy is a much more emotionally laden term dreamt up by some copyright owners in order to sway legislators into modifying laws to their favour.

$Bill$G$

:P

Jakey2.0

TheBoxNinja

rennyf77

sendmail

As a lifelong FPS gamer I reached 55 in about 9 hours of gameplay. I bought the game 2 days later.

Usually with PC multiplayer demos, there is NO LIMIT to how long you can play, it's usually just limited to one or two maps.

Not sure what your point is exactly?

topaz420

You leveled to 55 before even deciding to buy the game? That's a pretty fucking long "demo", don't you think?

Toasticus

StratfordX

InEffectMode

I ended up loving MP so I bought the game, only to realize that stats are wiped if you change your CD key.

So I own the game legally now but I still play on the cracked servers because I don't feel like leveling to 55 again.

topaz420

I wonder if their CD keys are created from an algorithm that was easily cracked? So the only way they can tell if it's piracy is the duplicate keys being used?

lostalaska

Contra maudi

Just ask Gabe Newell...

Jakey2.0

Jakey2.0

Stormrider

K-Squad! (Badass Edition)

Providence

Well, little did I know, I just love collecting console games. It's like every game tells its own story about the console and the generation. I can look back at those nice shiny Blu-Ray originals and recall "Hell, that was a good purchase. Great fun" or "Fuck what a waste". But that's how it goes.

For the PC, games were like nothing to me. All the same. All equally boring. Download, install, play, hate. Repeat.

It's quite sad when you take video game software as a given and for free, really. I'm glad I found the sweet spot I'm currently in.

Candlejack

RetroBob

TearsandScreams

Gam3r

The problem with pointing at one particular game to indicate the health of PC gaming is a little decevious. The PC platform by it's design is an open platform that anyone can make games for. Not all PC games come from big studios. For example, best of PC gaming lists keep bringing up Galactic Civilizations II, but that's from an independent outfit.

Tepoz

the only time i think its legit to pirate anything is when you cant find it to buy it (roms/some movies/out of print stuff/some games) because how else are you supposed to get this stuff?

Truepatriot

ZinkO: The Game (the kind you just lost)

The hacks in COD4 are starting to build up pretty quickly since their security scheme is pretty weak (PunkBuster) and there's not banning on accounts, just on cd-keys which can be changed in the registry.

Tepoz

Winterbringer

2kreative

The only place I know that this is not the case is Walmart, which forces companies to provide stock and recieve payment later, reduce prices, force companies to take back unsold stock.

Pigmartyr

infi

The PC industry is crap because of more than just piracy. The big limiting factor is hardware. Most people have poor systems and they're just too expensive to upgrade. I mean Crysis runs decently on 8800 cards but anything lower runs it like shit. The 360 will still be able to play new games 2 years from now without needing an upgrade.

It's no wonder the console market has taken over. Also don't be fooled. Piracy is nearly as easy on the consoles. All it takes is a mod chip and a few blank dvds.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

rainofwalrus

MedelliaObscured

Bentendo

rainofwalrus

K-Squad! (Badass Edition)

This is also why altering the game code violates the end-user license agreement and takes any responsibility out of the publisher/developer's hands. So in a sense, it's not theft per say, but it IS illegal.

Back to the original topic, I just have to think that it's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, the PC sales weren't the greatest, but I didn't expect them to be. Call of Duty 4 seemed to be geared for console gamers, not PC. I mean, 1 and 2 were basically PC games with a 360 port for the sequel. 3 was handled by a completely different developer. You can't sit here and tell me that this was a huge shock to any of the execs over at Activision (it is Activision, right? Hell, if I know) They were banking on the console ones to begin with!

Piracy won't go away. Not until you can enforce the law on EVERY single person. A law that cannot be universally enforced is not a law universally followed. Simple as that.

Dirty Mongrel

References please? SAles figures? Anything but a balnket statement with no proof?

Iblis

K-Squad! (Badass Edition)

Nonsense. Particularly the bit I just emboldened for emphasis. You are not entitled to these game experiences, and the selfish attitude that the industry is there to satisfy your desires is misplaced.

It works like this: If your financial situation means you're not in the position to buy all the games you want to play, you GO WITHOUT. You are not entitled to them for free under any moral justification whatsoever. Harsh, maybe, but it's the way things should work. By all means buy it second-hand from Ebay, at least someone paid for that copy. Or wait for it to hit the bargain bin. Or wait for a budget re-release.

You are not steering the industry in ways you prefer by downloading games for free - you're simply steering them away from something seen as (relatively) high-risk.

Of course, PC gaming won't necessarily die, but truly innovative titles ("clever" games as you put it) will become far less frequent events, as publishers will play safe with franchises that can absorb the expected piracy, and still manage strong sales.

Jakey2.0

I've actually got to get to bed (it's nearly 3 am in Japan), but I'll reply to whatever I can when I wake up.

erlik

rainofwalrus

Not playing the game is an option but why should I let my $300 video card or console go to waste just because developers aren't producing games worth buying at full price? I'm not going to watch my own hardware go to waste because some asswad developer wants top dollar for their 6/10 game and I'm not going to pay full price for inferior games. What option satisfies both my need to get value for my money and use my hardware? Piracy sadly...

Iron_Dragon_2.0

The people that do it, do it because they can, as simple as that.

Is just human nature (which is generally selfish by the way). The bottom line, if you like the game industry support it then! But if you don't support it, then don't kid yourself, you ARE hurting it.

Herodito

erlik

mrrobsa

bluesquareapple

Fishstick

erlik

They're both murder, but different stages and degrees.

Piracy (the modern usage) and Theft are two sides of the same coin, with, amazingly, the coin connecting them. Theft is stealing actual property, Piracy is the theft of intellectual property.

Denzal

immelmann

Gunhaver

Kaemon

It's not a means of "punishment" as you seem to wrongly assume in your reply (Ubisoft doesn't give a damn one way or the other, I assure you, assuming you weren't planning to purchase the games anyway), but simply a withholding of support.

And yes, it DOES matter that media is non-physical. Stealing is not wrong because you gain materially from it, but because the other party LOSES materially from it. If a publisher sells one million copies of a game and has one million copies pirated online, the publisher has not lost anything material from the pirated versions being downloaded. The game will still be profitable, no one will lose their job, a sequel will still be made.

The argument is, overall, much more complex than you make it out to be. If I have a limited budget for games, and know that, say, Zack and Wiki, is a clever game that has not sold well, and COD4 is a good game that has sold millions. As a participant in the market, I want to support clever games, so I want to "vote" for Zack and Wiki, but this week I feel like a good shooter. Options: 1.) Buy Zack and Wiki and pirate COD4, thus supporting a clever game but denying some profit to the makers of COD4; 2.) Just buy Zack and Wiki, denying myself the pleasure of playing COD4 but casting the "vote" that I want to; 3.) Just buy COD4, gaining the play experience I want but failing to support a game I want to support.

Or maybe I could buy them both used on Ebay for the same total price, thus giving my money to neither publisher? Is that more ethical in your scheme of things?

The ability to download games for free actually gives us greater leverage to move the industry in the ways that we prefer, without denying ourselves game experiences along the way. When done properly, this can actually have a more beneficial effect than doing the traditionally "ethical" thing (buying the games used to get both play experiences).

erlik

I really don't care if the latest ubisoft or capcom PC port gets pirated because their ports usually suck.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

You don't see movie studios, record companies or book authors/publishers complaining about the 2nd hand trade in their products, but you can bet they'd get involved if someone was selling knock-offs! They can obviously tell the difference, video games devs just need to wise up a bit on pre-owned games.

MrLister

Maybe I can simplify things. You go to a condo complex and the they hire you to shovel the snow from the sidewalks, with the understanding that you'll be paid by the tenants. So you finish the shoveling and go to a tenant for his share of the price and he says "hey, the sidewalks are clear now, I can walk on them, get your money from the other tenants if you can" So you did the work, but the tenant wants the benefit without paying. So tell me, would you feel ripped off?

PhysicalEd

sigma7

Okay, let's get this out of the way. First, people who use pirated copies of games will never buy those games in the first place. More emphasis is placed on spending whatever money is available on hardware and bandwith. They will always avoid spending on software so there will never be money gained from them. You do not lose money on them as they will never spend money on your software in the first place.

Second, people who use pirated software are not the average consumer who will buy software. It sounds easy to us on how to obtain, crack, and use pirated software because we are not the average consumer. Most will be stuck on the first step of obtaining pirated software. Trying to explain how to crack and run a piece of software to an average person is even more complicated.

Finally, most who grow up and move into the real world and get jobs leave the lifestyle behind as the money excuse is no longer valid. They can afford to spend money on the software they want. The determining factor now is time as it becomes way more valuable than anything. A large library of software is no longer feasible. Those who keep using pirated software are only in it for the scene. These are the people releasing pirated copies of software.

It's illegal and anyone who uses or distributes pirated software knows this. No amount of false rationalization will change that. It's done because it's possible, "we do it because we can". It's the same reason why any device is hacked, because it's a challenge.

Tepoz

Consoles are also much more secure but MS need to tighten the screws on the old Xbox - all you have to do is FLASH A DISC DRIVE FFS. Thats almost easier than doing it on PC, you don't need to add software or a virtual drive or anything.

EdwinJ85

Any system is going to piss off your customers, but surely PC gamers are mostly OK with Steam now. Why don't more games take advantage of Steam, rather than use as just another platform as COD4 has? It's a money or image issue, not sure which one.

hahnchen

I think we're basically in agreement, just stated in different ways, on the computer hardware issue.

My post really wasn't aimed at why so many pirated copies of CO4 are showing up, but I'll take a stab at it here. Possibilities include: 1.) People who own COD4 on another platform and thus feel the PC version should be free for them to play; 2.) People who made a few calculations weighing the good $50 would do them vs. the good $50 would do the makers of COD4 (already tens of millions of dollars in the black on the title), and made a rational decision; 3.) Asshats who cackle maliciously whenever they think about poor penniless PC game developers eating cardboard (yet again!) for dinner.

erlik

mva5580

That comment was re:

@erlik:

Sorry for the confusion.

doubtful

mrrobsa

I completely disagree. The artists signed on with those 'soulless music companies' and are contractually bound to them as they are to the artists. If you disagree with the contract the artist signed, then don't support them.

Used in a principled way, pirating can be a kind of "anti-vote" or "null vote" in the "vote with your dollars" school of thought.

I am a big fan of the '"vote with your dollar' school of thought", but not when it's used a justification for acquiring something I didn't pay for nefariously. I won't shop at Wal-Mart because I don't think they are a very good corporation, that doesn't mean I can walk in and take whatever I want, and if I did, how would it benefit the manufacturer?

It's too easy to slip into that justification and as soon as a record/software company does something you disagree with you allow yourself to feel righteous while torrenting their entire catalog.

I'm not thrilled with Ubisoft's treatment of EGM and a lot of people would argue that EA is "soulless." Should I fire up Azureus an download all of their games?

Sorry, but voting with your dollar requires some sacrifice on your part, too.

You're comment is full of the justifications I abhor. It's not stealing because it's just a copy; the corporations are bad so they deserve it; it somehow miraculously helps the artists/developers; it's good for the community; blah, blah, blah...

It allows you to experience things you don't actually want to support, for one reason or another.

You simply don't have that right. Period. If you don't want to support it, you don't get to experience it.

doubtful

I would much rather play something superior and put a little bit of effort into getting it that way rather than being a mindless drone and playings the way console makers throw them at the public. But it's a lazy society now, and that's what people want.

I've debated too often honestly with people on how PC gaming is superior, and it's really pointless anymore as people don't want what's better, they want what's easier. Their choice.

mva5580

You ignore 2 things: 1.) Laptop graphics cards cannot be easily upgraded, if at all, and laptops constitute a VERY high percentage of systems sold. And that percentage increases every year as laptops reach the point where they can pretty much do whatever the average user wants (i.e., everything BUT 3D gaming).
2.) Buying that $175 GPU doesn't guarantee that I can run the games I want, and it will have to be replaced the a year, two at most. I can buy a DS for $100 , or a Wii for $250, or an XBox for $300, and those are guaranteed to play all software for the system, and will last twice as long as that video card will be useful.

Also, if you want to sell a lot of something, you're going to have to win over those "lazy people." Yes, most people don't want to fiddle around with their computers to get software to work. Hard to believe, I know. Those same "lazy people" keep shoveling money in Nintendo's direction and not toward PC game companies, for that exact reason.

My point was that they're not selling games that run on mainstream computers, so they don't get mainstream-level sales. I don't see anything in your post that effectively argues against that idea.

erlik

It's not totally harming the company, if you decide to support it other ways. Anime for example is pirated oftenly, i support it by buying tshirt, or posters sponsored or made by that company. Walah/
Guilt=gone.
:D

r4nc1dx

That's not really a legitimate defense when we're talking about the actual percentage of gamers playing COD4 online with pirated copies. Obviously their computers can handle the game. These aren't people just testing the software on their outdated hardware; they're just asshats.

I will agree with you to some extent, though. I don't think it was just 3D graphics; I've always appreciated how the PC gaming community pushed the envelope. We wouldn't have the PS3 or the 360 were it not for PC soft and hardware developers trying to eek out extra frames and more polygons.

I think the greater issue is complexity. We can pop a disc into our consoles and it works, but building a gaming PC requires a bit of know-how and a lot of people just don't have the time to keep up. I did for many years, but just got tired of the whole thing, and this is coming from someone who used to have about 12 different boot floppys. Ah, autoexec.bat, where are you now?

My Live! gamertag is ComputerFund for a reason. I was saving to build a new gaming computer, but after researching for two months only to get caught in the trap of waiting just a bit longer for that new chip or new card, I gave up and bought a 360.

doubtful

To significantly reduce piracy, you have to either have unbreakable copy protection - not possible aside from unique server authorized keys for online gaming, or make it inconvenient enough to not pirate - ie, consoles requiring modchips to be installed or making your console so unreliable that people don't want to mod it (*cough* 360).

jrcbandit

Again, that doesn't mean that piracy isn't a problem. I personally know a couple of indie developers that went bankrupt because of it...and that is a problem...

DaViper

Used in a principled way, pirating can be a kind of "anti-vote" or "null vote" in the "vote with your dollars" school of thought. For example, I might be curious to see how bad Uwe Boll's latest monstrosity is, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support his continued, ahem, "efforts."

It allows you to experience things you don't actually want to support, for one reason or another. And media/software is fundamentally different than other goods because I can take it from you, and you still have it to sell to someone else. It's not a zero-sum game.

erlik

The two games you make examples of (WoW and The Sims,) are if anything examples of games which are HUGE hits and don't have the high system requirement problem. My girlfriend's laptop has a pathetic "integrated graphics" Intel solution from like 3 years ago, and the game still runs. Does it run great? No, but it's playable. And The Sims did not have high system requirements, not by a long shot.

You see the problem is that people like you (and so many others) associate a $500 graphics card with "Well, this is what I absolutely NEED to have to enjoy PC Gaming, and I can't afford that, so I'll just play consoles." Which is absolute garbage because you absolutely DO NOT need to buy all of the high end components to enjoy PC Gaming. You want to know what the most amount of $ is that I've ever spent on a GPU? 175 bucks. And I have NEVER had an issue with running games in high resolutions, and having a quality gaming experience. It's not my fault, or the industries, that A) people are incapable of educating themselves, B) finding good deals, and C) Doing research.

The fact is that PC Gaming is not for lazy people. It's not for people who just want to put the game in and play. If you want to use that reason as why PC Gaming has gone downhill, fine. I get that, because so many people now are just lazy and want to have everything done for them. But then, you show those people what PC Gaming is capable of, and they're hooked. Those people may not end up playing a ton of PC Games, but once they've seen what the platform can do, they know it's the best experience.

So while I acknowledge your attempt at a logical reason as to why PC Gaming has suffered, hardware is NOT it. Just as in surround sound theater parts, HDTV's, cars, and everything else, you're always going to have the hardware whores who feel they need to have the newest thing, just to say they have it. But for you to act like everyone NEED'S those things to be able to play PC games, you, and a lot of people like you unfortunately, are mis-informed, and just wrong.

I play Crysis just fine at 1680 x 1050 resolution, it looks beautiful, and my PC was NOT expensive. Believe whatever the hell you want, but it's fact. Perception has certainly altered reality a great deal in this discussion.

mva5580

Although these are possible outcomes of purchasing a game, they are not inalienable, God-given rights. Just as you don't have a right to happiness, but rather the pursuit of it, you do not have a right to pay for only that which you feel like paying for.

There is no moral defense of piracy. If you download a pirated copy of a game you have not purchased but are able to purchase (personal finances notwithstanding), you are acting immorally. Not only that, you are bringing down the very industry that creates your pastime.

You are biting the hand that feeds you.

Toasticus

I think it was actually 3D graphics cards that have slowly killed PC gaming. They keep upping the ante on graphics, and with higher graphics card requirements come heavier loads on the CPU, RAM, etc. A lot more people could run a game like Civ or X-Com without any problems then can run Crysis or even COD4 smoothly. I know my computer doesn't have a prayer. And I can't upgrade the graphics card because it's a laptop.

Look at what types of computers are big sellers these days (laptops are really popular, and getting ever more so), think about what kind of graphics cards these computers tend to have (weak!), then look at what games the industry is pushing and what the requirements are. Look at the huge hits over the past few years (the Sims, WOW), and think about how demanding the minimum requirements are for those games.

Piracy MAY be part of the problem, but it's a tiny part compared to what the industry has done to itself over the years. What other industry prices the majority of consumers out of the market, then blames the consumers who DO still buy their products for poor sales? And to top it off, the market segment they're targeting, the "hardcore gamer," is full of people savvy enough to know how to use bittorrent and interested enough in games to want all the big titles, whether they have the cash or not. It's sort of like trying to sell art to artists -- the consumer is more discriminating than the average Joe, and if they see something they really like, they might just decide to copy it instead of buying it.

So, uh, that's a nice corner you've painted yourself into, guys, but you can stop whining to us. I don't see anybody over on THIS side with a paintbrush.

erlik

nobodysleeps

You have to choose between doing what's right, and what's easy.

It's a damn shame that the PC is easily the best gaming platform out there, yet all the developers are going away from it because it's so easy for people to download games for free. Very irritating to me.

I agree with the premise that if the PC industry is going to begin thriving again, something needs to change dramatically with how games are sold. A service like Steam seems the most appropriate, but I'm sure there are other solutions as well.

I've never been really for all the DRM, authenticity checks, and everything else that people who have rightfully paid for a product have to go through now when they buy it. But the PC industry needs to do something drastic if people aren't capable of being decent human beings on their own.

And reading ANY kind of justification for pirating a game makes me want to throw up, or hit something. You know what? If you want to justify pirating something, how about you grow a set and go to the store and just steal the game from the shelf?

mva5580

CyN1caL

Some of us have something called "morals".

Some of us also don't like the idea of our works being stolen.

LaserJudas

drivenstorm

CecilTheDarkKnight

And considering how well Call of Duty 4 did on the 360 and PS3, it's clear that there are real losses going on in gaming.

Hopefully all ISPs will start banning torrents, and the PC game market can flourish again.

RawSteelUT

May the Banhammer be swift and merciless on you asshats.

doubtful

Add the online and you're pretty sure a large amount of people will buy it instead of a graphic card.

70$ on Steam? Well screw you and the retail.

harold

that person created the torrent to share a product that they - and i assume rightly or wrongly - bought, and as it is in their possession it is their property.

however, this is not legal due to copyright infringements - unless stated otherwise.

for example, when i used napster/kazaa/winmx/limewire and i was sharing a ripped music folder that people were taking files from, they were not stealing from me.

however, i would be held to be liable for infringing upon the copyright agreement that i had undertaken when purchasing whatever cd's i had ripped.

to summarise: piracy is not theft, but it is illegal in a number of countries.

illocon

Altima NEO

Kinketsu

rainofwalrus

Piracy is still the only means when you can no longer buy the game from anywhere. And getting the game second-hand is just as bad! Even game-rentals are better than buying second-hand, I guess (though I don't know rough numbers on how many copies of a game get bought by the rentals).
Thanks to GameTrailers you can finally see whether you'll like the game, so you needn't try it first.

Why isn't xbox360 pirating mentioned, btw? It was done simply by modifying your DVD-drive, iirc. Ah yes, because the single-player campaign of COD4 seems to be nothing special.

The only platform, where you can't pirate games stays the PS3, and I bet it'll stay so for years to come. *hint* *hint*, developers, stay only there if you want 100% of the targeted customers :P. As even if some iso-loader ever comes, there are simple counter-measures.

somarix

If game companies want to curb piracy, they should stop messing with their customers. When I can confidently put my money down on the table, walk home with my happy little box of joy and be safe in the knowledge that this little Doovde is not going to accuse my of high seas robbery - I'll start buying PC games again.

phantomdata

Maybe all of the "I built my PC because it is more l337" should actually support their platform of choice instead of just arguing with console gamers.

Lou3000

Renoistic

belo

inajeep

belo

The balance? Finding a way between having some encryption, and not being intustive (Bioshock PC and Sony rootkit)

Sure there is a balance here (Steam is perfect imho)

huginn

steam is good.

COD4 Devs are stupid for not stopping duplicate keys from coming online.. they try to blame it on us.. lol

PS. I bought COD4 PC at release because it is a great game and infinity ward deserve our support.. not because I had to or it would be "illegal" otherwise.

Zodduska

First, the entry cost and risk for PC developers was relatively low. Console developers risked spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on dev kits only to have their game heavily censored (requiring additional dev cost) or outright suppressed by the licensor. Nintendo of America during the monopolistic NES/SNES era was particularly notorious for this, and I suspect it's a big reason why western-developed RPGs such as the Ultima series were first made for PC, and only ported to consoles when the risk of censorship could be definitively assessed.

Second, middleware-for-hire such as the Quake and Unreal Engine (which can very much ease development of 3D games) were initially available only on the PC; console implementations appeared midway through the PS2 lifecycle. Before this, only the largest studios had such tools, usually developed them in-house, and they weren't inclined to share.

Third, prior to the original XBOX's focus on the online component, multisystem gaming was almost unheard of on stationary consoles, and rare even on handhelds. I suspect this is why Blizzard focused on PC development following the release of Blackthorne; they recognized that the multiplayer component of their Warcraft series was integral to enjoyment.

Finally, the standardization of console components allowed PC graphics to leapfrog contemporary console generations. Nobody, for example, could mistake Unreal Championship for the contemporary Unreal Tournament running on a reasonably equipped PC.

(There were other reasons, of course, such as the efficacy of the keyboard/mouse interface for FPS and RTS games... but I think I've hit on the biggest.)

It's... telling that of all the PC exclusive game releases I've missed as my Pentium III 933 began to choke on the latest tech, I only really wish I could play Age of Empire III and its expansions, and perhaps check out World of Warcraft.

The Confessor

kevinski

Portalis

jessejericho

kidko

Incidentally, I pirated one particular game only to find that I loved it so much I ran out to buy it and the expansion. Guess that really hurt the industry, huh?

antialias02

kevinski

4dSwissCheese

Copy protection is always broken (often before a game is even released) so why make things harder for legitimate users?

I like the way steam works to prevent piracy but I boycott it due to the bullshit drm which means I can't sell a game on or lend it to a friend when I'm finished with it.

So a system similar to steam which authenticates players individually via a user name and password but doesn't limit fair use rights would be the ideal, though I doubt it will ever happen. It seems to me that most publishers would rather just drop development for the PC than actually work on practical solutions to the problem.

bonaparte

Sinfjotle

Simple...

"Stole a key? We don't care...you will pay next month!"

openedge1

Fine then, fuck off, you won't have my business. I still stand behind the idea that any western developer who won't develop for the PC is a bad developer, and I refuse to give my money to them.

@htd:
If you got an old machine, Natural Selection is till a good deal. If you have HL1 already, just DL the mod and install.

Akin

"Movie theatres don't refund you for bad movies you see."

Bad analogy. Also some music concerts do refund money (ie) if there's a riot.

And no, in my experience, putting trust in faceless game reviewers and incomplete demos is not the best way to build a good PC collection. Playing the full game first, however, is surefire. It's not about free entertainment for me. It's about maximizing a limited budget and building a solid collection of games I will be playing next year and the year after that...mostly I just want to know if the game works or not. It's not like I can go to Blockbuster and rent it, or check it out in a movie theatre first before throwing down my $50+.

hastyp

Keegs79

htd

BUT - mo matter how you justify it, if you pirate games or music or movies or whatever you are denying someone revenue for a product they invested time and money into producing. I self-published a book (both paperback and electronic versions) that was copied quite a bit. Was that theft? Maybe by strict legal definition it wasn't since they didn't come into my house and steal physical copies. Are they taking money from me each time it is copied? Certainly just as if they took it from my wallet. (actually now they are denying revenue to a charity)

I personally see it as theft. Once I got over the initial anger and realized that people were still going to steal i