markbriton

Don't really understand why there's so much resentment. Apple make products for people like me, whose primary interest is not technology. My housemate works in IT and has half a doze PCs in his room doing all sorts of crazy things and he loves spending his time messing around with all that technology; it's his hobby.

I on the other hand am not really that interested. I like listening to music, so I love iTunes because it syncs with my iPhone without any complication and plays over my Airport Express in the lounge. I like my Powerbook because after a hard day at work using Windows, it's nice to have something easy and fun to use. And as for the Wii, I love it! Mario Galaxy is just pure fun.

Ligthen up. If you're a hardcore gamer, or techie, or whatever you call yourself, that's great. These products aren't designed with you in mind. No need to take offense, appreciate them for what they are!

markbriton

L_K_M

Bonz117

Tsukibara

burningranger01

mooseyfate

Blah8

Rockwallaby

Gagamus

TheIrishNinja

waitinthecar

XAnthonyX

MGS, Halo, GTA, none of these would be the monster hits they are without a huge amount of "Causal gamer" support. Nintendo's biggest issue is from the N64 till the Wii, only a small set group of fans bought the system, with a sprinkling of causals. This time the casuals far outnumber the 'hardcore' and sales are reflecting this.

@giovonti: Such anger. Go take some Prozac and then settle down to some gaming.

Foxstar Sixtail

asianmacker

retronaut

And sitting on your ass shaking your wrist around isn't playing a sport. Thanks for the false advertising douche.

giovonti

Shaoko

SpaceWhale

ChiltonGaines

TheIrishNinja

TheIrishNinja

TheIrishNinja

For some time now, Nintendo has noticed that most their big franchise titles are not as popular as they used to be. Look back at the N64 and the GameCube, they sold less than the Snes. Nintendo was wise to want to make a serious change in their strategy to appeal to new gamers because its paying off right now. Of course, only time will tell how successful the Wii and DS will ultimately be, but so far they have already broken many records worldwide. Looking at Japan, the Wii has already sold more than the GameCube and the PS2.

Beside, it's not like Nintendo has abandoned the fans that have supported them since the days of the NES. Wii already has a Zelda, Mario and Metroid game under its belt and Brawl and Mario Kart coming out this year. To this day, there are few third-party games on the Wii and DS that can compare to the quality of Nintendo first-party titles whether its a game meant for the hardcore or casual gamer.

The one thing I still think Nintendo needs to desperately fix is to do something to help improve the quality of third-party support for the Wii.

Hiltz

The situation is that Nintendo has to satisfy both their hardcore gamers and their casual/non-gamers. The same applies to the DS. That's why there's stuff like Brawl and Wii Fit coming out for the Wii in the same year and will perhaps be Nintendo's two biggest titles of the year.

The truth is that big Nintendo titles are released few and far between because they can only make and release so many games in a year for both the Wii and the DS. Don't bring up that load of bullshit that Nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore gamer because it clearly is not true.

Nintendo isn't a perfect. Its known to do things differently than Sony and Microsoft. Some times, Nintendo surprises us and sometimes it disappoints us. Friend Codes suck, we all can agree with that, but look at the cool things Nintendo has given us and what they have planned for the future.

Hiltz

adolfo-gomez

Maybe he's changed his hair.

Or got new glasses.

Majorasblaze

Nintendo touts Brain Training and Wii Fit because they are monster sellers, they sell more then Metroid, even when they just released a new Metroid last year.

And of course Nintendo loves Apple. Design and market wise, Nintendo has been the Apple of video games for years.

Foxstar Sixtail

ara

x999x wrote: I think that's got more to do with your perception of Apple's user base than with reality. It's not the Mac users throwing around words like arrogant sod; it's the Apple haters.

@DaiMacculate: The funny thing about the Mac ads is that the PC is actually very likable. Hodgeman really carries the ads. I think it might be intentional: The message of the ads isn't that PCs or PC users suck, but that they're nice people who just ended up stuck with an inferior OS, so why not give a Mac a try?

L_K_M

My bad.../fails to read

DCSimian

This is how I feel. And where all my displeasure comes from.

EnigmaNemesis

Yeah, thats what I've heard about Maya, its a major resource hog on any platform.

I think what people need to understand is that alot of Mac users are not passionate cultists, vegans, whatever we get stereotyped as. I'm just as likely to scoff at those people (and Steve Jobs) as any other self respecting person not from Cupertino. I also think the Mac ads are somewhat worthless, though John Hodgman is hilarious in any venue.

DaiMacculate

Really? Maybe newer ones with Leopard or something.

When I did computer animation in college all our Mac's ran Maya like crap. The program froze on me at least 2 or 3 times every day, which was made all the more amusing given the stupid Mac vs PC commercials they were running about how Macs don't lock up.

It ran just as poorly on my PC, but it was fun to see Apple enthusiasts talk up their computers then have to keep restarting every hour or so.

I don't have any beef with the hardware or the OS, I just hate the attitude and the completely fallacious advertising.

Lackshmana

If anyone really wants proof of this, just follow the money. Nintendo clearly sees more profit in the casual game market. Why else would they tout Brain Training and Wii Fit above everything else? What the fuck ever happened to Metroid? No one even talks about that shit anymore.

Harcore gamers really shouldn't be surprised anymore. Nintendo discarded us a long time ago, just accept it. I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't do it anymore.

Digitalguardian

neoyaku

This is why competition is good, and why I would never wish an end to MS and Windows, not matter how much I like Macs more. As much as Windows has cribbed from Mac OSX, certainly the reverse is also true, and their competition (especially the ascending sales of Macs) can only help us all in the end. Same with 360 vs PS3, or DS vs PSP.

DaiMacculate

Personally, I like the approach SMG took towards the story: you know what the story is, so it doesn't matter. I think a minimal story like that is MUCH more effective than trying to dramatize Mario fighting THE ETERNAL CONFLICT FOR THE FATE OF THE UNIVERSE and hitting the wrong note. The writing in most games is inoffensive as best, and often doesn't even hit that mark. The stories in most games simply aren't very good; you wouldn't read them as a book or watch them on TV, but you'll put up with it in a game, because the gameplay is more important.

That's what Iwata means when he says story and graphics aren't that important. They're bells and whistles placed on top of the gameplay. It's certainly nice to have them (and Nintendo is very good about polishing their own games) but they still take a backseat to that core gameplay experience. That said, the Wii is certainly lacking in the "deep, complex & compelling" gameplay area currently, someone needs to make a decent game that'll intimidate my grandpa sooner or later.

sheepofdoom

You can rock on it quad-core with plenty of ram and do some really good compositing and effects compared to the PC (After Effects, Shake). Maya works great on it. Photoshop too and you can flip it to Vista if you want to.

I do think it's overpriced for what it is and catered to the turtleneck-lovin'-intellectual-with-too-much- cash segment, but oh well.

And it does suck seriously for games on it's own OS.

As for the graphics/story bit. Of course Nintendo is going to say that! They are never going to admit it is in a poor poosition for those kind of things.

JohnnyLA

It's possible to run those under Linux, but Maya and other 3d applications are still the big fish in the Linux art pond -- hence the native applications. Color correction across the VM / Wine would be the biggest hassle of setup for a texture/2d artist using 'chop.

Mongoosekun

Nintenboy01

That being said, I agree with X999X. There is an annoyingly elitistw core userbase. But why should I blend with them just because I'm using the same hardware? I can very well use my Mac without ever having to speak to anyone from the core userbase. Following that logic I couldn't watch Star Trek or Star Wars or any of those movies just because dorks tend to love them.

MattGS

peristalsis

slacker164

vongarr

djkaurii

blurayforever143

That said, Steve Jobs is also an arrogant sod... it's just the whole elitism thing I guess, which shows up in Reggie's speeches as well...

To end on a (somewhat) positive note, at least Nintendo make things I actually want to buy and are actually more than just style with no substance. Though part of me wants Nintendo 1.0 back. Certainly can't make EU dates any worse. Any chance we could get a 3.0 who actually care about Europe? =D

Overlord44

dv8godd

Unfortunately, if you wish to experience Leopard you have to buy a Mac, theres no way around that, even if you try to use some dodgy hacked PC isntaller for Leopard. This is Apple's trump card, because once they get their claws into you by way of the iPhone and it's mobile OSX, you'll find yourself hankering for a larger serving of the OS on your desktop. It's stability is unparalled in all my years of computing, and being able to run XP inside of Leopard for a "Hybrid OS" is nothing short of amazing.

I don't hate Apple anymore, but I still hate it's core userbase.

x999x

ara

fuchikoma

ara

dv8godd

My favorite Apple product (the Macbook Pro) is also plagued by countless hardware flaws they've had to (mostly) iron out though. They're incredibly slick when they work.

I just have the trendy elitism that's been dragged along with the brand. I get self-conscious using it in public because I don't want to seem like some airheaded snob who buys into all the marketing hype from Cupertino. I think that actually holds them back somewhat. Most of the claims Apple makes are total BS, but they do make a nice computer now. I WISH Windows programs installed simply by being anywhere on the hard drive as a package you could uninstall by simply deleting!

As for the iPod... haha, please. From its launch there were MP3 players that gave better bang for the buck, and now they compete in interface and sound quality as well.

fuchikoma

And at the end of the day I'd much prefer enjoying something instead of hating something else. Granted, I'm not a fan of Microsoft so I basically ignore the Xbox. But why should I waste any energy posting hate messages on the internet?

I'm having a flashback. I fought in the Amiga-Atari-wars, back in the old days. Amiga ruled. I was a stupid kid. Listen to an old veteran. It's not worth it. Sometimes I still wake up screaming in the middle of the night.

MattGS

mooseyfate

Nintendo and Apple have a good idea at least, how do we make it possible for the untapped demographics. Old people, young people, sick people, rehab, etc.. Kotaku has had enough articles about the wii being used for physical therapy and the ds being somewhat helpful for Alzheimer's and other mental degenerative disorders.

Apple does the same thing. My parents were never computer savvy so we always had a mac until i bought my own pc. Of course, my pc died the first day I got it cause i didn't know wtf i was doing. T_T but for older people who want a computer but don't want to deal with losing their boot.ini file and hoping that their identities don't get stolen feel safer with mac and feel it is easier to be/get protected (whether or not it works is dependent on HOW safe you want to be p2pers i'm looking at you).

I think their is so much unease around Nintendo because they are not making games for the Hardcore so much. As for 3rd party, i feel they didn't expect a success from the system, ala dreamcast, and were challenged by having to include a different dynamic into a lesser powered system. But cmon, games are cool but it was mario bros. that got us into gaming wasn't it? It was about having fun. The wii will start those new generation of gamers off, and it will innovate future technology. I think, as gamers, we're worried games will become mainstream and start fucking up (like mtv but different).

San

kidnicky

There is nothing wrong with the Wii as a gaming machine. What gamers are having problems with are the types of games the console has beyond 1st party.

Tepoz

GSGomez

dv8godd

I actually don't even think you can call it a cult mentality, in that industry. I have worked IT at a major fashion design firm, and to a degree, it's a legacy thing. The people actually putting pen to paper and bringing in the cash learned design on macs, because their mentors learned on Macs, and so on, back to the point where the difference really WAS much more significant in terms of the maturity of available design applications.

That of course circles back to a lot of the enhancements you mentioned, and how mature a lot of the design/publishing/pro apps are in OSX.

HAGE

That's probably the best current criticism against the iPod, for my money, but it's also a deeply personal criticism, because there's a point where each individual person's ears and appreciation for music simply stop being able to discern sound quality. What's more, depending on the bitrate and quality of the encodes in your library, or the quality of the headphones that you use, or noise in your listening environment, sound quality can end up being a moot point since any differential/gains on the player itself are nullified by the other variables, lowering the bar no matter what.

Personally, I find the current gen touch to be only slightly worse than the godly 1G shuffle when paired with a great set of shure earbuds, for my music collection. But to each their own, really, it depends on what you're able to discern and so on.

HAGE

1) Many important apps like Photoshop started out on a Mac, thus Macs are traditionally used for graphic design
2) Many other apps like Aperture are still Mac-only
3) Macs display Fonts the way they look printed, while Windows optimizes for on-screen display; thus, page layout is easier on Macs than on Windows
4) Macs have built-in, working color correction
5) And so on

There are rational reasons why Apple is big in design. This has got nothing to do with any kind of "cult" whatsoever.

But congratulations on hating Apple before it was trendy. Well done, pal. I'm proud of your avant-garde hating skillz.

L_K_M

ara

Brill

but yeah, all this has very little to do with the post at hand, which has some very disappointing statements in it.

v00deux

Antiterra

dv8godd

4dSwissCheese

I can only assume this post is meant to be ironic. "I'd never insult you! But you're an idiot!"

Thanks, man.

L_K_M

"my hatred for apple is so deep and intense"
"the day apple dies is a good day for humanity."
"The day Apple ever competes to MS on PC market share is the day we sell our child's future away."

Hahaha, this is so awesome. I really have no idea where you people get this from. Unbelievable. I can only assume you're not serious. If you are, good luck with your lives, dudes. You'll need it.

I'll just answer this one:

"When people talk Apple I am completely baffled by how Apple fans think its better over MS/Windows."

Perhaps Mac users (I don't call you a "Microsoft fan" just because you use a Windows PC) prefer Macs because they've used both Macs and Windows PCs and found Macs to be the better experience? I know, this is hard to comprehend, but I think it might actually be the case for the vast majority of all Mac users. Seriously.
Oh, and for Saxboy: First, there is not a single virus for Mac OS X. Second, Apple's time from issue detection to security fix is significantly lower than Microsoft's. No OS is secure, but Apple is fixing security issues way faster than Microsoft, which means there's less of a window for exploits. Yes, Mac OS X is not completely secure. Yes, Apple could be doing better. No, it's still a lot better than Windows.

L_K_M

indiemike

peristalsis

What in the world could possibly compell posts like ths one? How miserable do you have to be to take every opportunity you get to hate on other people? Just... grow up.

L_K_M

indiemike

They do. It's called the Xbox 360.

Andy S.

I hope I shouldn't interpret this as I'll be seeing less bigger games from Nintendo. If so - that'd mean Nintendo would be seeing less of me.

I love my Wii and my DS, but I also was pretty damn happy with gaming before Wii came along. Button pressing is good fro my soul.

sadkermit - soon to be banned for standing up to the ummm nazi.

Sailorcancer

I have a dream,
Where graphics are not judged by the number of their polygons
But by the quality of their picture

I want to understand this world where Nintendo games don't have good graphics because they're not in HD. Last I saw, Nintendo's presentation is really second to none. Galaxy, Prime, Paper, and Twilight were all gorgeous, and even Wii Sports is a very clean, polished experience, can you really tell me that that stuff looks BAD because it's not HD?

I like the guy who's mentioned the possibility of the Wiimote transcending consoles. Brilliant. And I have no reason to doubt that the Wiimote will last, especially when the upgraded straps and the condoms come standard now.

HAGE

Leathersoup

Nintendo is simply modeling their business after a successful business. It kind of sucks but it does work for them amazingly well. They are a business and will continue to make what sells. Nobody wants to end up a SEGA. Of course I want some deeper games and less titles that will be 9.99 in one year because they were a quick-released cash-in. But to get angry at Nintendo is really just getting angry at people for buying what sells. That is all.

MJDeviant

Also what problems with security? I've never had a problem with any Mac being compromised, including the servers I ran when I worked for Campus IT in the 90s.

If you hate Apple because their ads suck, thats fine, I hate Dell for similar reasons.

But I don't spend any time spreading anti-Dell propaganda, funny how people can be so passionate about hating Apple but don't give a rats ass about hating their closest competitors who have just as many if not more minor issues than they do.

But yeah, just looking at the UI on the Wii and DS its clear Nintendo likes OS X ;)

DaiMacculate

Anyway, since a good Apple argument is always fun, I have owned countless MP3 players, going back to the Diamond Rio in like 1999, up to Zen Vision:Ms (after I had owned an iPod). NOTHING provides the quality of interaction that the iPod does. People can whine about FM radios and voice recorders all they want, the iPod's value is in its interface, and I have yet to find another player/software that comes close. The iPhone/iTouch is already a similar leap, though I do drool over the Zune's wireless sync. I'm a podcast whore so I want some of that like yesterday.

As for the Macs, depending on what you value, and as long as you stay away from the overpriced BTO extras, they actually are not a killer on price, I have seen a lot of iMac vs. build-your-own lineups and nowadays, they're generally very comparable, at least at MSRP level. As far as SFF goes, Mac Mini generally ends up costing WAY less than its competitors. (Shuttle's ultra-mini, Aopen, etc.) You generally can't get the same kind of discounts that you can get either on a Dell or on PC components, but in exchange, Apples hold their resale value quite well, in fact. Then, of course, for me, prior to jumping Mac, I had been spending asinine amounts of money on PC silencing. The 20-24" iMac, from a style perspective, and from a silencing perspective, offer stuff that you pay far out the ass for on a PC, and for people like me who value those sorts of things, Macs end up actually being a better value than their PC competitors.

Finally, on the OS level, as PC gaming is a lost cause to me, there isn't a better OS out there for my purposes than UNIX, though I do maintain a functional TinyXP Beast install for the occassional game.

What were we talking about? Oh, right, Nintendo. They rule too. :)

HAGE

I can proudly say I absolutely despise every Apple product ever made. And that's HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE for those keeping count of the hate-factor.

Ignatius

Did anyone tell Tanod that if you simplify the controls and then charge 599 US dollars you've just lost the hardcore and the casual players simultaneously. MS and Sony both got stupid this gen with pricing. $300 dollars is what you launch consoles at, less if you can manage.

Also, this 12 SKU bullshit needs to stop as of 2 years ago. This generation has seen it fail like... 6 times. Sony launches PS3, the 20gig is the only one that sells worth a damn (I never saw one in stores). They launch the 80gig, that doesn't sell but now the 60 does. They cancel the 60gig, now only the 40 sells. MS, well, MS is a bunch of idiots if they thought the core would sell.

usfslacker

Anyway, I like what Iwata is saying and I like the direction Nintendo is taking. I think his point is that its very hard for a company to expend the resources necessary to push a powerful console ahead. Therefore, you can't really go out on a limb and experiment while pursuing that strategy. The wii was designed to promote a very risky strategy. They had no idea if the wii-controller would be a success so they couldn't attach it to hardware sold at a loss. Its a no-brainer really. Now that the Wii-controller has proven itself, they can be more aggressive on the hardware in the next iteration. Keep up the good work Ninty and the consumer will continue to reward you.

subnet6

DrFresh

NotAZombie

nya-chama

Morte

LostHorizon

nya-chama

The Wiimote is standard bluetooth, not a proprietary tech. We've all seen Johnny Lee interface the Wiimote with his computer. In addition, almost any controller can be plugged into the Wiimote and use the bluetooth connectivity to communicate. Presumably, this would require a special jack and the right software in the console box iteself.

The Wii has been described as a few gamecubes duct taped together. If Nintendo continues this trend the next console will come in two flavors: Console and Wiimote(s), or console only.

If Nintendo waits, the next system will output HD (probably to 1080p), be just as fast as a 360, and probably cost about $100-$150. It'll probably work with all gamecube / Wii games, as well.

Consoles have reached a point where the generation gap isn't going to bring very drastic improvements. TVs won't be going higher than 1080p for a while, I imagine. Nintendo has the opportunity to keep using "old tech", make a profit on an upgraded box, and satisfy almost every type of gamer out there with limited to no development costs. Wii 2.0 will simply be a Wii with (possibly) a high def disc drive, possibly (but not likely) a hard drive, and upgraded processing / graphical abilities. This will be "old tech" in a few years and will position Nintendo to be able to sell a strong console at a budget price. Keeping the same basic architecture should also make things easier on the developers.

This is all dependent on the Wiimote lasting as well as every other Nintendo product. The hard work has been done, and Nintendo has created an expandable video game system centered around the Wii remote. I want to see them use it to the max extent.

cendojr

Immutablyme

@cactaur: Even if there were less viruses written for Mac (what I took your "security through obscurity" comment to mean, sorry if I misunderstood), there are a multitude of flaws with OSX in terms of security. When these were pointed out to Apple their answer was "we'll fix it in the next OS," which certainly doesn't help people unless they're willing to upgrade everytime a new .1 comes out. Even then some of the problems weren't actually fixed.

I'll try to find some of the articles I read before on it.

As more and more disgruntled idiots on Windows switch to Apple, and more and more games come out for Apple systems, you are more and more likely to run into viruses and system-compromising situations. I'm not saying you have to be an idiot to hate Windows, I'm saying that people who aren't computer savvy switch to an Apple because they see "Hey, there are no viruses for Macs" which is not only completely erroneous but dangerous. Even on a Mac you need a firewall and an anti-virus, and to stay up-to-date on all patches / definitions / etc for both your software and operating system.

Saxboy

Nintendo sales are certainly indicative of that.

It's the demographic you should be looking at.

Immutablyme

I hope you're being sarcastic, but if not...

Selling a half million in the US during first week alone doesn't necessarily mean commercial failure. It's not Halo 3 like numbers, but it certainly isn't horrible. And as far as being a critical failure...check the average review scores again with eyes open. It was anything but a critical failure.

Anyway, as much as I am happy for Nintendo's success, a little more meat in their machines and games would be cool. If not that, then make some games that your new casual market actually would consider buying. Frankly, and I say this as a Wii owner, there's a lotta crap out there and it's unfortunate that the new market doesn't really read up on what they're buying.

DCSimian

Agies

Agies

I didn't model my management style on them.

Pixe

amost

Andrezao

Andrezao

Clearly Nintendo have no idea what makes games fun anymore so should drop out of the market altogether.

Denzal

Maybe you'd like to enlighten me as to how Apple uses "security by obscurity" when OSX is a UNIX operating system, and the base of the OS is the Darwin platform, which is open source software?

Buy a clue. Seriously.

gnugeek

Yes, Apple is security by obscurity and the smaller installed base meant less interested script kiddies, but as I grow older I yearn for simplicity.

Plus my work dictates use of photoshop and illustrator so ubuntu is out.

cactaur

Garo

xpnet

Too right. Their user interfaces are terrible and confusing and their heralded "design philosophy" really isnt anything special. I don't like how any of their products look.

Additionally, iTunes? What. A. Mess.

DarrenIndeed (xbl)

setuzoku

altgod

@Antek718:
Is it Monday today?

altgod

7th_Ronin

Very Shaky Cameraman: "No, sir.....your....eyes..."

Iwata: "Ah yes, what is the saying? Eyes bigger than stomach? AHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Islandkiwi

Crafty79

Agies

MasterOfPastures

But how do you justify crying "dirty" to MS for their monopoly practices when you support a company that complete grips and monopolizes their entire system?

Image if MS made the hardware components the computer itself, the box, the retail store and all the software on it? I mean that's what Apple does. The day Apple ever competes to MS on PC market share is the day we sell our child's future away.

SchoolBusDriver

comedy

v00deux

are you that much of an idiot? You talk underpowered machines but how's Vista treating you BTW... sucks I know doesn't it.

Apple makes better everything so unless you get a clue as to what you are talking about then you might as well just STFU

Antek718

Apparently not.

Tanod

Nex Antonius

Garo

'Cause I do.

erlik

Garo

Mayu-mayu

xtimrs

I can see how Nintendo would like some of what Apple does, but I've always found that Apple products have worse specs, generally don't do what they're designed to as well, and cost more than the competition. As long as Nintendo keeps producing good games and keeps their prices down, I can live with the worse specs. When they start taking that Apple business model is when I start to worry (or just wonder what they're smoking).

Saxboy

Business-wise, they want to be marketable and expand the gaming population, which they have been successful of.

But in terms of the "art of gaming," they have also been successful in creating an exciting new experience in the games we play without just making better graphics.

But God, I hate Apple, mostly because any product of theirs I can easily find a cheaper AND better one made by a different company. So I'm not quite convinced that's Nintendo, yet. (IE: the DS Lite.)

indiemike

ThisCharmingMan

altgod