Spot on! And add to that the fact that developers also take cost of production into account as well.

mdmills

kftgr

EndersGame

You are taking your own perceptions of the system...

"kontr0l5 bettarz tahn any other FPS evarz!!!"

and making the mistake that everyone feels the same as you.

It is a novel control system and revolutionary in the fact that it has worked it's way into previously untapped demographic markets. The Wii has definitely gone where no console has gone before.

People are buying it that shouldn't be buying it. They have no idea WHAT they are buying except that it's a Wii and it's "fun" and their neighbors have one and they have a great time with it so we will too, right?

Which is why it's a fad.

It's a hula hoop.
It's one of those Skip-It things with a lemon attached to one end that the little kid hops over.

I'm not taking anything away from the Wii. All I'm saying is that comparing the 360/PS3 sales to Wii sales is madness because the Wii is some kindof crazy cultural phenomenon right now.

EndersGame

What helped the 360 in comparison to the PS3 was the cheaper $200 price, but also the number of titles available that were either as exclusives or timed exclusives that helped in justifying the purchase a bit more. Also, historically, hardware problems do not sink a console if the positives outweigh the negatives.

Even though Wii is being sold at a $50 premium compared to where historically the general consumers start buying a console, the Wii enjoys a brand image developed with the DS that Nintendo used to streamroll everyone. Remember, the N64 and GameCube both had Mario and Zelda and Metroid. The difference now is in the marketing.

Tepoz

Call me woebegone crazy, but I'll bet pretty strongly that this "fad" will, from here on out, forever change the way we play video games.

wonder6oy

I guess people have to justify their purchase somehow (:

Norellicus

I know I did.

But that's just because it describes the current situation.

Mact

You need to read people responses instead of just waiting for a chance to post more stuff about "you". They have places for that. They're called blogs.

EndersGame

And for people that frequent gaming news sites like kotaku, so many of the "facts" spewed are so shockingly uninformed.

The numbers say, in console sales, Nintendo is kicking butt. 360 is very solid, and PS3 and PS2 got outsold by 360, even when combined.

What does it mean? Who cares? Let's play.

lionkitten

@johnlucas: good points. I'm beginning to believe most of what you've said. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, this christmas my money is going to the PSWii combo. I truly believe that the 360 is a great console for many people, but it's a terrible console for me. I guess Wii is the console that reminds me of why I started playing (waaaaaaaaaaay back in 1980) in the first place.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

cubabit

Conveniently we've got one in the post above, and it's the kind of title with wide appeal to both systems' demographics: Guitar Hero 3.

360: 383,200
Wii: 286,300

So if making a single-platform title similar to Guitar Hero 3, and if it cost the same to develop on both platforms, a developer would currently be best to develop on 360. (Or actually PS2, but I'm ignoring that.)

As for the importance of user base, well, the 'attach rate' of GH3 is 4.5% of 360 users and 4.7% of Wii users, i.e. basically the same: the system with more users sold more copies of the game. 360 has twice the theoretical attach rate, but bring a real game and you see why that number doesn't matter - and user base does.

quen

meeto_0

A word of advice for fickle buyers: Putting too much stock in game reviewers' opinions and grumbles from negative message board posters will make you miss out on good games. Their opinions don't count. YOURS does.

Rent or test out a game to see if you'll like it. Step outside of your comfort zone & try out something you normally would overlook. There's plenty to play on the Wii. I have 14 games on disc right now in less than a year & have many more I want to pick up. It took me a little while to get up to 14 with my other systems.

XBox 360 has proven itself as the All-American console. I think this is really it's biggest selling point. Videogaming has become a Japanese industry since the NES took while its beginnings started here in the USA. So I think some are trying to "Sam Beckett" matters here (setting right what once went wrong) to even out representation on consoles. I am in disgust at the 360's craftsmanship but I have to give it to them when it comes to moving games. They have very dedicated buyers and the year headstart paid off big. I don't think they'd have done this well without it.

Sony continues to struggle against the competition and against itself in the PS2. It's like my grandmother used to say when I tried to eat too much food. "Eyes are bigger than your stomach". They put themselves in danger by overdoing it on the system and thinking people would lemming towards whatever they put out. They are trying to correct this mistake so humility has paid off in some respects. And the PSP has impressed me as a lasting alternative to Nintendo's historic handheld dominance. They didn't accomplish what they set out to do, no (burying Nintendo in the handheld sector), but they are the only ones who have lasted against Nintendo there and that is impressive. They are finally picking up.

The race was a foregone conclusion since September 16, 2005 when the Wiimote was first unveiled. Don't fool yourselves. This generation has long been decided. Wii will reach lifetime sales at absolute minimum: 240,000,000 (Two Hundred and Forty Million). That's the LOWEST they will pull in. GUARANTEED. In all truth don't be surprised if Wii reaches into the 500,000,000 (Five Hundred Million/Half a Billion) range when this is all said and done. You will not believe the ability of Nintendo to expand *and transform* the market and to some degree neither will they.

Yeah, don't worry I'm similarly seen as crazy when I make these types of predictions and more at VGChartz. But I get many right more than I get wrong and I especially get the big ones right. I used to comment on this board constantly since before launch that Wii was The Future of Gaming & that it would become a record breaking Michael Jackson's Thriller type of success for all time.
As someone else says the drama is who will get the #2 Spot. The only problem with some people's POVs is that the Wii is not legit in spite of its success. On that point, I have to disagree that these people could not be any more wrong.

2007 is the last year where all 3 competitors seem in a race. After this period Nintendo will transform the industry to their favor actually hurting the other two who fight each other for the same piece of steak. PS2's record success will look like child's play from here on out and these sales charts will be an increasingly painful thing to watch for those who don't like Nintendo. Just giving you fair warning.

John Lucas

johnlucas

You don't get your value's worth for the game, it's better to just keep it, or make a crapload off it on eBay by overcharging shipping.

kotakuspaceship

kotakuspaceship

Look at the Wii - that's never gonna get a price cut - will just probably get an upgrade in a year or so when sales start to slow.

katieandowen

And by that you mean? Just curious.

I've found their console gaming division to be leaps and bounds better than their Operating System or Office divisions. Ok, so an argument can be made that divisions are still part of a whole, but still.. I haven't seen the same degree of heavy handedness from MS in the console gaming division as they put on Windows or MS Office. Do you think MS would have taken a massive financial hit on an OS or Office release by offering extended service like with the Xbox? LOL, no, they would have thrown out a new patch or covered it up then turned to people like me who support their systems for a living and send us big packets of TechNet papers telling us what to do to fix their flustercucks.

That said, if you're staying away from the Xbox because of paid yearly subscriptions, I can understand the viewpoint. However, if you're staying away because of microtransactions, welcome to the new world of gaming. Nintendo has embraced it with their VC and Sony is readily embracing it with cash over points (though a reloadable PSN points card pilot program has been in progress in Japan for months).

Personally, I can't stand microtransaction crap, but I suppose it's here to stay.

Captiosus

But hey, I think things will change. I've played them all, but I only own a Wii at the moment. The PS3 is almost at the price I can justify paying for it. I'll never buy a 360. I just don't like the way Microsoft does business.

necrozen

Still though, Wii also sees the release of Super Mario Galaxy, so we can expect a rise in Wii sales the next month too, although it won't be as "marked" as the PS3's.

El Cernex

cernex

j/k

U.2.K.

consoles surprise you when you least expect it. I originally hated the PS3 but now it's my preferred console after spending time with it.... in comparison to the 360. I thought I'd love the 360 but the ONLY reason I keep it is because my dad bought it for me so we could play All Pro 2k8 together on Live. Wii is the darling of the group when I expected it to be the shit kicking leper. At this point my money is going to Wii and PS3. 360...the more I play it the more I'm just not feeling it. The straw that broke the camels hump today is trying to play my newly purchased VF5 with that fucking awful, piece of shit d-pad. In this age of gaming how could a company like MS fuck up a d-pad? Has to be one of the worse in history.

This weekend....it's all about Warhawk, Mario Galaxy and whatever other Wii game I buy from my 360 VF5 trade in....Medal of Honor 2...or maybe RE:UC or Battlion Wars 2 or Fire Emblem....

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Tisteldun

NotSoCool

Pulse

hamsterjohn

kidnicky

dandd

Spidermonkey

"I love how people post opinion as fact. Some folks may, just MAY, think it's worth it for one of those games."

Oh Papabear, you're so cute when you're melodramatic.
I think the point he was making was not so much that no one likes those games but that the release of those games is not going to dramatically raise the sales numbers of the PS3. Ratchet didn't, and I don't think Haze or Uncharted will drive a spike in sales either, particularly with their launch time frame. This is a huge holiday for great games. It will be easy for another shooter to get buried at retail and Uncharted's early reviews are good but not great, not even as good as Ratchet and Clank which, while good, has not been driving sales of the hardware.
Good exclusives are nice, but there is a difference between a good exclusive and a system seller.

subnet6

I decided to sell my Wii when I suddenly looked at myself and said... "You've played Everybody Votes Channel more than any other Wii game". I was scared of what I saw inside of me, and I fear what the future may hold if I leave the Everybody Votes rehabilitation clinic. I just want to play games, and darn it if the Wii wants me to make Miis instead. The mindgames they play are too much.

A lot of times I find myself trying to pronounce "Reggie Feez a may" in my head, when I should be telling myself to walk forward. Nintendo has a stranglehold on my soul.

MCWHAMMER

okenny :)

MCWHAMMER

Way to put spin and words in ones mouth. You quoted what didnt exist.

I never said it doesnt mean squat, I said they ALSO, you do know what ALSO means right? They ALSO look at attachment rate. And obviously it means something since game developers are not scrambling to put games on the Wii first despite its console sales, since consoles like the 360 sell more games per unit sold.

Nintendo had the idea of more consoles = more games (though they seem not to be so pro active with devs still) like they thought Sony did with the PS2, but the difference was Sony also sold a ton of games per every system sold. The same thing that is happening to the 360, thus why it garners more support.

EnigmaNemesis

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Sigh. Thoughts anyone?

MCWHAMMER

kotakuspaceship

Killer apps sell consoles, and heaven knows the current PS3 lineup hasn't been doing a good job of that.

Gears of War last year, Halo 3 this year and the Wii Remote/Nunchuck since the damn thing was released - THEY'RE the only next-gen killer apps so far.

Of course, you might have a case for titles that *deserve* to be killer apps (Bioshock, I'm looking at you), but aren't. Still, I personally wouldn't place Resistance in the same league, and most (if not all) the other titles mentioned are far too shallow to be considered for the tag.

Darkest

Which is funny because really, what Microsoft did to Sony was exactly what Sony did to Sega with the whole Saturn vs PS1 war. They shoulda saw it coming.

Aprotosis

Somehow...and I'm not quite sure how...somehow Sony got caught with it's pants down.

EndersGame

1. Never go to EB...ever.

2. Resistance, Warhawk, Super Star Dust and Everyday Shooter are not "killer apps" or system sellers.

Want to know why?

Look at the numbers. The real numbers suggest that those aforementioned titles aren't system sellers. If they were, then the PS3 would be a success right now and please, please don't come back with a "well some might look at the current state of the PS3 as successful..." response.

The PS3 has been a spectacular failure it's first year. Hopefully the following years will prove better for it.

I'm speaking in generalities and you're talking about personal preferences regarding FPS controls.

Big picture here...

EndersGame

Blind_Evil

brello

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

This is why I stopped going to my local EB to talk about the latest news. The guys in the mall have this rabid fanboy mentality that if you don't play what they play or like what they like, then something is wrong with you. I told one guy recently that I won't buy CoD4 on 360 because I hate dual analog controls. I told him I buy all of my FPS games on PS3 because of the m/kb and Splitfish support. They laughed and said I was hating on 360 and making excuses.

Gaming is not some one size fits all affair and to me SuperStar Dust IS a killer app. It's a superb title that's exclusive and shows the potential of the console. What difference does it make whether it's downloadable or not? Warhawk is a downloadable game and its one of the best online experiences released in a long time. 360 fans would love that game if it were on Live. Why hate on great games because they're not on a preferred console?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

RiceBandit

Yes PS3 released too early, yes Sony wasn't focused on what truly mattered in the gaming industry. This is all true. But let's look at the competition. 360 released too early. RRoD is proof of this. MS marketing of the 360 is suspect at best. People cried foul when PS3 was announced at $600. Hell, I cried foul when I heard it and truth be told, no console maker from this point onward should think it a good idea to release a console at that price...ever. But $400 is not cheap and that's what kills me with 360 fanboys and media types that are ignorant.

$400 with the included price of the needed accessories still puts 360 in nearly the same price range as a PS3 and you still don't get the HD-DVD player, the extra ports for SD card, Memstick, MicroSD, backwards compatibility etc as well as true USB support. MS played on the masses negative reaction to the PS3s $600 price tag and consumers...not thinking...ate it up. But let's be real. For $400 I expect the console to have a bit more to offer than Xbox Live (which is still another $50) and a failure rate of 33%. The fact that legions of fans think that a failure rate that high is acceptable is astounding. When MS released the Elite, they KNEW the PS3 was the better deal. Otherwise, why release a new SKU that has a HDMI port and a 120 GB HDD if the PS3 isn't a better deal out of the box? Why support HD-DVD in any way if Bluray wasn't a factor that concerned MS? For that matter, if MS was pushing for digital distribution for Live, then why go the HD-DVD route at all?

Keep in mind I own all three consoles. I criticize all of them when its due and I have to say that Sony really didn't need to release the PS3 last year. They could have waited. PS2 is still the best deal in gaming bar none. PS2 could have held the fort while sony truly perfected the PS3. I look at the PS3 hardware and all I could say is "wow". It's a serious piece of kit and yes, I have games for it too, games that I enjoy very much. But Sony lost their focus. It's good to see them regain it...late but better late than never. PSP could have been an absolute destroyer that would have been the second coming. But it turned out to be a good portable instead of a phenom. No focus.

360....what can I say? I own it...it's okay...but it's not my first choice of console. My tastes are have changed a bit and 360 just doesn't do it for me like it does for other people. This post is hella long so I'll stop there. But man...great post. made me think a bit.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

:D

EndersGame

shimage

Neither are killer apps. You may like the games a lot, but they are not killer apps.

For instance, I love the hell out of Batallion Wars 2 - but I would never claim it's a killer app for the Wii.

@majortom1981:

I think the "Wii is a success" was put in the books before it even passed the console which had a year head start in sales.

Americana

Do you miss the threads where I defend the 360, the Wii, and their respective games, or do you just choose to ignore them?

I'm not the one championing one console over another. I think they all have their pluses and minuses. What I am defending against is willful ignorance.

Even still, enjoy your false sense of righteous indignation over something as insignificant as a freaking video game.

Me, I have a kid to read a story to, and some pharmacology homework to finish so I can try to get another level in Hellgate before it crashes out again.

PapaBear434

EndersGame

I don't. I was responding to EnigmaNemesis's Xbox 360 talking point of "Consoles sold doesn't mean squat, it's all about attach rate!" that they've been reiterating ever since the PS3 and Wii were put on sale.

baberg

I'll be here waiting for you when someone dares to speak ill of your PS3 and you need to come charging in on your Pstallion to Psave the day...

EndersGame

And Microsoft loves suckers like you. At least I have owned all three consoles and have a basis of comparison. All you have is misrepresented "facts."

I have to go give my kid a bath now, and don't have time to argue with the likes of you about something so silly.

@yoni:

Yeah, and that's when the system cost roughly the same as the rest of the systems of the day, and they were not THAT expensive. People see $400 as an entry level price, they are looking for more bang for their buck.

PapaBear434

I really feel microsoft should join up with nitnendo for a wii60 campaign

majortom1981

@kasplat: What do you mean by "Microsoft doesn't have a cost reduction strategy". The primary point of the 65nm Falcon chipset is cost reduction. And I would be shocked if there isn't a 45nm chipset in development. And while I certainly won't disagree with you that the 360's hardware sales have been disappointing, or that GTA4 sales, at least in short run, will fall considerably short of sales on the PS2 era games, I will argue that 10% of the install base is probably the minimum that GTA4 will sell. A quick look at Vgchartz shows that there are 17 or so 360 games already that have sold that much. And few of those have the same sort of hype as GTA.

4dSwissCheese

If you want to see how a developer is going to distribute their development dollars, look at what EA is pulling in per platform. Wii is well behind the 360. Other developers may differ, but, at least for EA, it makes sense to invest in the 360 preferentially. On the other hand, you can't really say that EA is trying very hard. I wonder what kind of investment they've made in Wii development.

shimage

MetaKz

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here: FF7 for Playstation. All, and I mean ALL of my friends that play video games got the PS JUST for FF7. Just saying.

@Wickerman1972:

I said that in the context of someone else mentioning that MS dominates all with Windows. AS A JOKE. I'm not trying to spin anything at all. C-O-N-T-E-X-T. Learn it. Love it.

yoni

Sony LOVES you. I sincerely hope they send you a card at Christmas.

EndersGame

okenny :)

@EnigmaNemesis:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't soccer moms have families? You know, with kids, teens and husbands that might just play video games.

Volcan

Comparing the 360 OR the PS3 to the Wii is ridiculous, and here's why.

The Wii is an anomaly.
It's a fad.
It's the "fondu set" of the 21st century.

Clearly Nintendo has created something that resonates with "the people" and it's selling like mad, but comparing the sales of the 360 OR the PS3 to what the Wii is doing simply isn't fair to Microsoft or Sony.

EndersGame

Brokenlynx

No, I have more of an issue with your condescending attitude. "Panties in a twist" is not something you say when you want to come off as rational and unbiased.

Personal attitude aside, Resistance and Warhawk ARE killer apps. I know at least three people that bought the PS3 after they played four player Warhawk over at my place on a 32 man server. But what you have to remember is that when those two games came out, the PS3 was still a minimum of $500. And since the public has the attention span roughly as long as an ADD addled kid on a meth high, they don't think of those games when considering buying a PS3, they are looking at what just got released and what is getting released soon.

Oh, and your assertion that the Downloadable content equating with less than satisfactory gaming is something obviously garnered from XBL Arcade, since the PSN is going a different route of providing a more meaty experience from their digital content. New games, big games, not remakes of games we played in the 80's.

PapaBear434

Stormrider

Great games with great graphics. I've only had the 360 for a year, and I have 22 excellent games for the damn thing already. That isn't including the arcade games I've downloaded.

"doesn't it end up costing about as much as a PS3 in the end when you factor in you have to pay for it just to go online"

I paid $200 for my premium 360 last year, and I got my first year of Live for free with the live vision camera ($55 on sale), and I found some Live 1 year cards for $28 a piece, so I'm good for a few years.

"and the PS3, DS, Wii, and PSP all come with it standard and built in Wi-fi instead of needing to buy an adapter... correct me if I'm wrong, but are the XBOX Live payments really worth it?"

I don't need wi-fi. I have a router right underneath my TV (I use a cable modem, so the modem is right by the TV) with a free ethernet port. A lot of people don't need wi-fi. It is never as reliable as wired ethernet. I don't see the need to pay for it.

Rectangle

Right now, while the consoles are still relatively new, it's that ONE game they need that has tonnes of hype and has people eager to get their hands on "console X" so they can play that game.

MGS4 and FFXIII could very well be those titles. GTA4; had it been exclusive could have been that title.

Maybe even something like Assassin's Creed that had/has crazy hype could have been that title had it been an exclusive.

EndersGame

The 360 launch sucked. I can definitely agree to that. It started gaining greater momentum as it approached it's "birthday" and having a "killer app" like Gears of War definitely helped with that.

It's not a personal attack against you or Papabear because no doubt he has his panties in a bunch about this; when I say that the PS3 STILL has no killer app. Yes, there ARE people that enjoy Resistance and Warhawk as well as the other exclusive titles on the PS3 but there isn't anything game out there yet that can really compel a consumer to go out and get a PS3.

Lair could have done it but...well...we all know how that went.

EndersGame

Wickerman1972

You do also realize, of course, that no ONE game will justify the system. It's the collection of the whole.

Maybe 360 folks are impulsive enough to run out and buy an entire system just for Halo, but when you drop a minimum of $400, most people want more to justify that purchase.

PapaBear434

But apparently the complete failure of the 360 in Japan, higher price point relative to the Wii, marketing and games targeted too much at the hardcore gamer, in particular FPS games, and ongoing hardware problems of older boxes despite a newer chipset is continuing to hold the 360 back.

Unlike Sony, MS doesn't have a cost reduction strategy for the 360, so it is unclear what they can do over the next year to increase hardware sales to a broader base. They already have a good game library, so what is going to get more people to buy the machine?

This is hard on publishers, despite a better 360 games attach rate simply because the market size for their games is much smaller than expected. While titles like GTA4 will undoubtedly sell machines, the combined install base of the 360 and PS3 isn't even close to what Rockstar was probably expecting; even if they sell to 10% (unlikely for any game) of the installed base that won't be great compared to PS2 era sales figures for a GTA game.

kasplat

Sony might be over the hump but in my opinion they've just landed themselves at the 360's price point and demographic. 2008 is going to be an interesting year if the PS3 does start to draw close to the 360 I wonder how long it will be until the cheaper to produce 360 plummets in price and adds on a HD-DVD.

Question? If the Wii is hitting 1.8 million units a month, and 500k are sold in the US who else is sucking up the 1.3 million? Because it's not Japan and although we have no Euro figures I'd be shocked if a market similar in size to N.America is consuming nearly three times as many consoles. Anyone think there is a huge stockpile of these about to hit the shelves over the next month?

Jelster

Let's not start THAT argument again, ok?

Personally, I would think that if they made the 360 to the same quality standards as the PS3, it would have retailed at about the same amount. But MS went cheap, and while the loyalists still cheer the lower price point, normal people can't deny it's rather on the shaky side quality wise.

But the fact of the matter is, some people don't want Wi-fi, HD media, free dedicated servers vs. peer to peer systems, and most people apparently don't care about the breakdown issues.

Just be happy that the PS3 is down to the same price point as the 360, so at least that feather is out of the hat of the MS knob polishers' collective cap. Let's stop arguing how much we get for the price, because while considerable just isn't important to those who don't own a PS3.

PapaBear434

EndersGame

LemonproX

@EndersGame: I actually felt validated with my PS3 after I played Resistance and VF5. Actually, scratch that, Resistance IS a killer app and so is Warhawk. SuperStar Dust and Everyday Shooter are fucking awesome. Both are better than Geometry Wars but they get ignored because they're on PS3. Both could be put under the validate banner or killer app depending on who you talk to. PS3 has had games to play for a long time. People set an unusually high standard for the PS3 in terms of available software at and after launch. But again, when 360 launched, the best game available in the launch window was CoD2...a PC port. Then there were the constant PS2 ports. Ports that many sites and media outlets compared to the originals to show that there wasn't that much of a difference to justify the investment of a 360.

But people have short memories and forget this. 360 was given time to come into its own but that time isn't being given to the PS3 because of narrow minds. All I can say is, if Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Resistance, SuperStar Dust, Uncharted, and R&C are examples of what PS3 can do NOW. I shudder to think what it will be doing a year from now and beyond. Not just in terms of graphics but in terms of gameplay and capabilities. I have all three consoles BTW.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

I'm not saying the games are bad. All I'm saying is that generally, people aren't "holding out for Haze" to buy their PS3. There just isn't a great deal of hype surrounding any of those three games when compared to other games that are coming out or have recently released.

EndersGame

Shaoko

Atamisk726

I love how people post opinion as fact. Some folks may, just MAY, think it's worth it for one of those games.

PapaBear434

MKK2004

THe truth is everyone is wining on the surface because everyone is growing their install base. The truth behind these numbers is that only Sony isn't seeing any profits from hardware sales. It's going to take them probably another year to actually start seeing profits from their combined hardware sales so they just have to hang in their till they do.

I'm still wondering if the proclamation Sir Howard ran out and made yesterday was to soften the blow of this news. I'm veering towards it had to have been otherwise in light of these numbers, investors would be worried.

According to the the new numbers they sold over twice what they sold this month in just over two weeks. We will just have to wait and see but I really wonder if the truth in that will be smothered by the sure to be strong holiday sales of the other two systems?

We shall see :)

okenny :)

How many of those Xbox 360 "attach" games are Perfect Dark Zero? Kameo? King Kong?

Attach rate is a ratio of games sold versus consoles sold. If you're only selling one console a month, and the million gamers who already have the console buy a game, the attach rate is going to increase but the console's userbase is no longer expanding.

So yes, developers look at attach rate but by itself it means nothing. You have to look at the context of "How many consoles are out there" in order to see whether a gaming system is growing or stagnating.

baberg

EndersGame

Is this a bad thing? Not persay. This competition drives down the price of hardware (good for us) and causes more studios to adopt a multi platform development cycle(just look at the general lack of big exclusives this holiday season).

danecy

kimcheese

Actually, the Wii has beaten the DS before.

For example, Wii sold 501,000 units while the DS sold sold 495,800 units in September. In August, Wii sold 403,600 units while the Ds sold 383,300 units. There may have been more times when the Wii has sold more than the DS.These are from U.S. hardware sales by the way.

Hiltz

Amazing.

blacksamurai87

silentbob343

Of course in the real world, it doesn't really matter to me. Only one I'm missing is the PS3 and I'm sure its not going anywhere for at least another 2 years. Of course, if it doesn't continue to get cheaper, that time line could be shortened. Same could be said of the X360, though.

KaneTaker

how can either the 360 or ps3 inherit the ps2's place in the market given they require a very very expensive purchase to work as intended?

this_is_sparta

Compared to Nintendo...agreed.

The battle for first place in this generation has already been decided for the moment. The REAL fight is for second place.

If outperforming your competition by 300% (Xbox 360 - 366,000 to PS3 - 121,000) counts as "not too good" in your books. Whoah to Sony if MS has a "great" month.

The STILL can't sell more PS3s than PS2s...

EndersGame

November will be different because of the new PS3 pricing. But the games you just listed aren't system sellers. They will join the ranks of Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Resistance and Heavenly Sword. Cool games, but not to go out and by the system for.

Fetus_God_of_Love

Wickerman1972

LOL! Yeah, that was the red button indeed.

DigitalHero

People picking up the PS3 as a Blu-ray player isn't going to help Sony much in making the PS3 a winning *gaming* machine.

Neither does the "get it cause its cool" soccer mom crowd buying the Wii.

Game makers also look at attachment rates. And thus the reason not much dedicated games for Wii. And all the reason 360 gets love.

Attachment Rate!

EnigmaNemesis

But the NPD numbers don't track what people are doing with their hardware, just who is buying them. If somebody bought a dozen 360s to use as space heaters, that counts just as much as a dozen gamers who buy them for the games.

I think Kasplat was specifically referring to the NPD numbers and not the attach rate.

baberg

R3load

TheNumchucks

Soldrak

Samos42

Nintendo: We rock. Largest Wii number sold to date. DS rules. We are gods. Neener neener. Just wait for the Mario numbers.

Microsoft: Only a slight falloff from last month's numbers, indicating a clear favoring of the Xbox 360 and Halo brands. Christmas will be a great time with blah blah blah.

Sony: Playstation brand continues to do well with $X million in revenue. Expect next month's numbers to continue to rise as a price drop coupled with our heavily anticipated games blah blah blah.

baberg

Unastheslayer-PSN

Woah woah woah... that's like the nuclear option then...I was referring to just the company level based upon these numbers...obviously if talking about the install base of Windows, MS wins hands down no contest.

Or could I mention the number of movies that Sony owns?
That change anything at all? (Probably not)

yoni

MS isn't looking too good though considering they have the largest library of the best games overall in addition to Live, yet even Halo 3 wasn't able to get them back to a sustained lead.

kasplat

Moonshadow101 just owned YONI XD

DigitalHero

Green-clad Gamer Dude

Earthslide

Moonshadow101

"...we'll know tangibly how successful Sony's recent price drop for the PlayStation 3 was, as it went into effect on November 2nd."

Yep. You don't read the article before posting on them.

PapaBear434

But the sales of the DS scare me. Is there anybody left who doesn't have one by now?

b06r011

Sigh.

yoni

1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. MS

No? So, a silver lining there. Mayhaps.

yoni

No, the 40GB came out on Nov 2nd.

DigitalHero

HMTKSteve

darkcambria

kingofallcosmos

Moonshadow101

DigitalHero

chronubis

jfx316

perrinbar

Admit it, you misread it too.

db2