BoyceQuintus

new360

blahism

Antic791

Nadams1229

they should make the A.V. color thing like a sexy orange or something. just have all the little lights in there start going wacko as a way of saying "hey dumbass, check the plug-in"

Nadams1229

AndroidKing

im_different

Chaos_Bringer

hoi1ma

And yet clearly you still don't get it.

justhesh

spainland

sainraja

Let me put it this way. How can half of the units sent in not have a problem at all when you call Microsoft they make you troubleshoot it making sure the cable are plugged in correctly?

And how would you get the paided return box without calling Microsoft?

Exactly.

sainraja

I've never had a 3RROD and mine is one of the 2nd or 3rd shipments my store had received.

Darkest Daze

im_different

However, I am a competent individual who uses his brain and went online to look for a solution. The simplest of simple solutions was to disconnect the hard drive, then reseat it. Viola, no more red ring of death.

I'm betting more than half of the returned xboxes could have been fixed with a simple google or xbox-scene search of the error code that appears on the screen.

chiablo

akhomerun

Oh, can I please have an "Are you sure you want to fry your XBOX?" prompt next time?

franklinjfresh

SquirrelPhister

Spiderbait

OK, obviously you haven't been paying attention. First of all, this thread has nothing to do with the problem that causes the system to crash. Second of all, if the words "Rumor" and "Microsoft" are even on the same page together, history shows that's it true far more often than not.

As for the people that think that replacing our consoles if they break makes us a fanboy, well, just shut up. It's called actually fucking enjoying the product that we bought because we wanted it and aren't just fickle enough bastards to swear off writing whenever we get a paper cut.

justhesh

I'm not sure if you can call it the incompetence of the MS staff. I mean, when an unwary 360 owner sees these lights, he automatically thinks that it's the RROD. So when he calls tech support, that customer will describe the problem as the RROD and the tech support person will understandably assume that the customer understands that the problem is called the RED ring of death and can distinguish between orange and red lights. Since the problem is easy to identify, the tech support will assume that the customer knows what he is talking about. Therefore, the tech support support will respond as such.

I think it more has to do with the customer's tendency to assume the worse and panic before thinking.

Think about it this way: if you jokingly called 911 and said that someone was shot, the cops are going to assume that someone was shot. They aren't going to ask questions if they assume that the caller knows what he's talking about.

freeway8989

This article is true. My brother in law said his 360 was broken but all that happened was his A/V cable wasn't plugged in.

DigitalHero

vipr255 (xbox live gamertag)

SmAuRt_GuY

sainraja

sainraja

They had to have called and the Microsoft rep (as shown in many videos on youtube) always asked the customer to check for loose cables, remove hard drive etc.

So how can this be true?
Unless the rep ignored the troubleshooting part and just send the customer a repair box.

sainraja

sainraja

my 360 has had a few errors here and there, but i try to check out the error code before i panic. i've had to re plug in the cables, or re attach my hdd a few times. nothing major.

i think they should keep the ring codes. if anything, at least you have an error code to go on.

Strider_Seven

Yamster

retronaut

But what I cannot understand is how even fanboys can go so far as to openly bash (or mark the games in permanent marker for) a console with not even a 1% reported failure rate and as we saw, survived in some hellacious heat, and at the same time, go balls-to-the-wall for a console that some of them have already replaced over 5 times. I personally would have switched over at the second failure, but I will never understand the reasoning of a fanboy.

Papa Midnight

Murrytmds

poematik14

It's probably in the firmware so can't be modified via an update.

IE, you want this error message to be shown in the worst case scenario. IE, the console won't even boot. It's not something you can really fix with a dashboard update.

/and with a firmware update you run the risk of bricking the console. IMO it's not worth the risk.

lordargent

VampireHunterZ

No, I'm not an MS fangirl, I'm a Nintendo fangirl to be honest, but I know that I've been very satisfied with my 360. If you're keeping your consoles in an enclosed space where they're running at 70 degrees celsius, then you need to learn the basics of keeping electronics. Sell all of your consoles and don't buy anymore until you can take care of them properly.

Zeni

Karttikeya

Until recently you had to call to set up the repair order, otherwise where would you send the console and when it got there what would they do with it?

ShaggyB

Idiots.

Covert

All we're talking about is some idiots who forgot to plug in the video cable causing the system to give 4 red lights indicating it cannot find the TV AND stating the obvious fact that there is atleast SOMEONE with a RROD error which is a big duh, there's no problem with the Xbox itself, it's the idiot outside the box.

All I ever here on here is little Xbox and PS3 fanboys spitting it out at each other in the comments, but the PS3 users visiting Kotaku seemingly outweigh the Xbox user visiting and in turn getting sick of the crappy biased articles with highly ridiculed comments making the Xbox user visit less frequently.

Post good things on both ends (Or all 3) Kotaku and the fanboy war will die down.

Covert

RonJeremy4Pres

I'm giving it a rest because I want to play through the Ace Combat series before Halo 3 comes out.

RPharazon

poopdeedoo99

Doomstalk

poopdeedoo

Elly is PMSing, stay away!

Felt really stupid for freaking out once I got it up and going. ;) At least I didn't spend an hour on hold with tech support.

Seems like a little "common issues" sticker on the unit explaining the red ring meanings would be good. and I totally agree that error codes must go!! It was bad enough getting "ERR -14" or whatever in BASIC when computers had 64k-- now the OS has more than enough room to store a basic error description to give you at least SOME info-- "network timeout", etc.

Justin42

"oh, yeah"

then I just made sure it was plugged in, then all better.

presto117

BigChiefSmokem

Thejamielynch

midnightz

It's saddly true. I can't wait for the holiday flood to be over, and everyone gets their RRoD over with. If there had been a recall it wouldn't be an issue. I guess this problem will persist for quite a while with all that overstock sitting around in warehouses and store shelves.

Mongoosekun

Your point makes no sense.

The Wii may get as hot as the 360...but it's designed to deal with it. The 360, as you so expertly laid out, has as a part of its design a large amount of heat produced. Within that design, there is (was) no suitable way to deal with the heat in what seems to be about a third of the units.

There is a flaw in the design of the 360. By any reasonable standard, a substantial number of units are flawed by design. You probably don't want to opine so viciously when you're so entirely wrong.

hegemonyhog

xINTRINSICALLY_PWNINGx

The flaw, it seems, would be one of heating and ventilation. My wii feels just as hot as my x360. If anything, I would say its flawed by manufacturer or maybe choice of component.

Just the fact that the "towel trick" works would indicate this is in fact the case. It sounds to me like the system gets hot enough that whatever thermal compound they use to attach the GPU/CPU to the heatsyncs melts and looses its bond when worked enough (i believe they're using thermal pads). Then you let your console cool off and you can never get it back to that same temp to have the thermal compound re-bond with the heat sync. Essentially the console errors out and cuts the power to the CPU/GPU due to thermal overload.

When you use the towel trick, you allow it in its inhibited state to reach temperatures that will allow this compound to re-bond with the IHS (integrated heat spreader for those not in the know) and the heat sync.

Granted, I havent opened my console to run tests as I've not had a single problem with my launch unit. But I do have extensive (see 15+ years) experience with building, configuring and modding PC's. This includes designing my boxes to be whisper quiet with gaming caliber hardware.

Anyone who knows anything about air cooling knows when you first apply thermal paste it takes a couple cycles to reach max efficiency. The compound must liquify and solidify several times to create a solid bond between the IHS and HSF.

Essentially, stop with the "flawed by design" bullshit. Electronics get hot.. and the x360 doesnt get any more, or less hot than any of my other electronics. My Dennon A/V switch, Wii, TV... hell even my DVD player gets hot to the tough.

The x360 is about as "flawed by design" as you guys are keen to throw around the latest catch phrase to sound cool and knowledgable.

asphix20

DasKonstruct

4 lights: System Hardware Failure
3 lights: Temperature warning (if only!)
2 lights: Video cables unplugged
1 lights: No controllers present
0 lights: Power cable unplugged

...or something like that.

Jazhuis

4 red is always going to be seen as MORE severe than 3 red! The video cable error code should have been something simply like 2 red and 2 green.

penhalion

serotoninzero

It was odd, but the 4 red lights never lit. I didn't really think anything at the time, but this would be a cost-effective move on MS's side. But more so, keep people from believing an issue to be present when only a very simple "fix" is required.

And I've done this multiple times. I'm kinda forgetful...

Fake Edit: In fact, I just tested it by starting the console without the HDMI cable and nothing lit but the center green light.

wonderkins

evilash

deaftly

And various spelling errors I don't have time for.

justhesh

Red ring was gone and has not been seen again.

yashichi8bit

And whoever is claiming that the support is bad because they're not catching this, you should rethink your argument, because everyone knows that plugging in cables is #1 on their list. What, do you want them to pop their head through the phone and check up on the caller to make sure they're following instructions?

@0ldb0y:
"It's not a tight, snug fit when plugged all the way in"

Bullshit. It's as tight as you want it. Hell, it practially fucking clips in for god's sake. You might as well be saying the USB ports are too loose. The only thing that isn't very tight is the cable that plugs into the power brick, and that has its own light.

@jayntampa:
"the "red ring of death" wouldn't have become a meme."

Yes, blaim the actions of legions of foolish users on Microsoft. Maybe they should have sent a rep to everyone's house and slapped them in the face and put a big red stamp on their foreheads that reads "FOUR LIGHTS IS PLUGS, ASSHOLE".

I'm not saying those people are stupid, because it can happen to anyone with any electronic device. But what I am saying is that they need to stop panicing every time they see a funny light. I imagine a trip to Las Vegas would make them piss themselves.

justhesh

hvnlysoldr

velvet396

SuperMaxZero

masteric123

makemoney

On a side note, I love how people make that complaint, then turn around and brag about the PS3's ability to run Linux.

Doomstalk

It has little to do with weakness, and more so with the poor connectivity between the cable and the port. It's not a tight, snug fit when plugged all the way in, and in my experience, there is better connectivity when the cable is given a tiny tug out and away from the console.

It's a silly error, but it's also a poor design.

0ldb0y

-

Doomstalk

KingBroly

ausroller

Disabeld

curtisawa

its like calling a computer repair person and saying "yeah, yeah, yeah" when they ask you to reboot and telling them how many beeps you heard during startup. most people dont pay attention well enough to fake.

apoc06

1. tech support tries EVERYTHING in their power to prevent you from having to send in your xbox360. they walk you through a million steps. counting the number of lights, reconnecting the cables and hard drive would have fixed this one each time.

2. NO company would pony up an additional billion+ dollar repair [read: cover our azzes] plan without first checking the numbers of returns that were unnecessary.

apoc06

GreatNocturn

kw4k

MehGinla

MehGinla

You could only imagine the panic that I experienced, only to see that, after just turning on my Xbox, it ran perfectly, and has been running perfectly ever since!

Phoenicks

If he had and you told him three, then he obviously wouldn't pressure you too much to check the connections. If it was four he'd probably have made you do it again.

By the way, I think it's a bit ridiculous for you to call anyone critical of what seems to be an obvious attempt by Microsoft to brush the problem under the rug a PS3 fanboy.

hexix

Or the people who are just 100% convinced something is wrong with their console and going to get it shipped in no matter what.

It may not be a huge percentage, but I suspect a notable number of the 360s shipped in are actually OK.

cello

Whenever I got through to India I ended up having to tell them "look, I'll ring back later" as neither of us could understand what the other was saying.

The same when I got through to Newcastle...

brooza

I ended up with 3RL in the end

brooza

usfslacker

okenny_unbanned

v00deux

good job MS PR. brilliant move.

sectionz

Nephus

I told the MS support guy that I already did that, they said "okay, lets set up a RMA".

Plus, people THINK they plugged it in all the way, but didn't. PS3 fanboys.. ROLLOUT!

Cellien

I actually do this to my friend from time to time. Disconnect the cables and watch him jump when it red rings. Anyone think this could be the culprit behind all those "I returned 12 360s" stories?

As for the crowd that's saying this is just PR kicking into swing, well, maybe. If that makes you sleep better at night, sure. But you're really overestimating the size of Microsoft. Something non-critical like this could just slip through the cracks.

thenino85

Our machine don't stop working because they are built to crappy designs by the lowest bidder, no, it is due to USER error. Honestly this is probably true but this statement means that their tech support is so retarded that they are unable to diagnose the fact that your AV cable is unplugged.

This reminds me so much of the good old days when it was Sony who were making the stupid statements, my how times have changed.

headgoomba

Mesren_Makai

..This happened to me once, but rather than freaking out, I remembered we hadn't hooked up the video cable yet. When it actually DID ring out, then the freaking out commenced.

Now I fear everytime I turn it on, I'll see red lights. It's also important to mention that there's lights for when it's overheating, as well. Two if I remember, right?

I wonder if there's a way you can babysit the temperature without voiding your warranty. *thinks*

Aragashi

okenny_unbanned

Witzbold

It's kinda funny, and normally, I'd call stupidity on the customers, but Ms ditched it's own 'grave' here.

Thankfully, it's getting better.

huginn

Moonshadow101

dmanatunga

Thats the problem with most people, if you arent going to take your bloody job seriously, dont take it at all.

Witzbold

This information is real, and its nothing new. No doubt that MS should have made it a tad bit more different from the 3 light RROD, but I guess the hysterical, non-technologically skilled people will get this changed, and everyone will be happy.

SpishackCola

Kokuryukai

Kyle81

I'm confused on why it's 3 for death and 4 for plug something in... I think I missed something.

Citan359

Will.

hexix

rotten03

The only reason I know about the no-video-cable error on the original Xbox is that I had to keep the video cable plugged in when I was testing my Xbox while working on it open-case.

Cutriss

Hmmmm....

Rukusa

El Patricko

Microsoft tech support... ie the people you had to call before the stupid website was made, had you unplug all the cables then re-plug them in. They then had your turn it back on. Next they had you remove the harddrive and repeat the previous step. lastly they wanted you to be plugged into the outlet directly.... thinking your surge protector wasnt given it the right power ammount.

There is No way anyone made it through all that crap just to have the cable not plugged in.

Whatever spin or stupid damage control explination this one is.... its nothing more than Total BS.

ShaggyB

Very smart PR move. Cast doubt on a serious issue and then let your rabid fans take it from there in internet forums. Before you know it the fans will be arguing there was never a problem.

hexix

I'm confused as too why there would even be a video cable unplugged error and it NOT be the first thing to check when seeing red.

sadkermit - soon to be banned for standing up to the ummm nazi.

It always amazes me how these high paid upper management types can't ever see farther than the next quarter letting their companies images be totally destroyed by inferior customer interaction. The absolute failure of technical support in the high tech industry over the last 10 years is really embarrassing. Embarrassing because I work in this industry (in development though, not support)

visionep

Truepatriot

A quick check revealed the cable had come out at the back, but I can understand some people just losing the plot.

Cruithne

*sings along*

Witzbold

Ps3 could ninja star a bluray at you if you press the PS button, more realism to NGS?

Raio_

TheNthDegree

ShirtGuyDom

Alalu

Or at least have the DVD tray slide out and slap you in the face with a disc?

lunarworks

Actually it is true that the 360 is easy to die, while I do believe there's a big deal of internet hype to it, as well, as mine and a friends never had serious problems, but that's another story.

Candlejack

Cellien

Excuses for Mircosoft's inability to make consoles. Lets say for a split second that this is true does it still make up for the fact that they released a console that is flawed? no... So why does the amount of consoles matter if its broken its broken.

You dont buy a new car and it breaks think oh well everyone elses is ok because the company said so, you think godammit i hate j00 all!!11

Stop with the excuses and work on the solution mircoshit

Raio_

I remember freaking out thinking something broke, but like a good trouble shooter I checked the physical connections first.

cametall

They should get rid of the 4 red lights in the next update. It's confusing for a lot of people.

RocketFella

thebluick

Voryn

At that point, the masses of morons that don't know how to do a little bit of reading or research probably started sending their consoles en masse to the repair centers.

jayntampa

xpnet