sand0789

Unastheslayer

Detha

No PS3 yet, but I'm aimin' for one real soon. The year and the next's line-up is just too good to miss out on. =D

Detha

Shame it doesn't work in Resistance and WolfET ;D

Unastheslayer

I don't care THAT much about Halo, and I can't stand that bore-fest campaign mode any longer than SoTC (multi-player's a blast, though). Never beaten one in-fact. But Die Hard's awesome! Seen the new one?

Detha

@Islandkiwi: I agree when you say the two series' are aimed at different segments of the population, Halo is definetly meant for mass consumption, as you put it. However, When you say MGS is less about the gameplay and more about the storyline I just cannot buy that. Yes, it does take some time to get the hang of the controls in MGS, but when you do there's a lot more depth to the gameplay than in Halo. How many games can you shoot a hornet hive to distract your oppponents and give you a chance to escape? How many games can you save in your prison cell and then play a beast killing minigame when waking up? How many games give you boss battles like The End and The Boss from MGS3 (two of the best boss battles I've ever played)? How many games can you treat as both a challenging shoot 'em up or a tension ridden stealth 'em up?

Unastheslayer

Your argument that you've read people who say they'll buy a ps3 when MGS comes out...well, that's cults again. A very small group showing fanaticism towards a product. Take the gaming population, then look at people who comment on websites...it's a tiny slice of the gaming community. And out of that tiny slice is a fervent few saying they'll buy a PS3 when MGS comes out.

I've enjoyed the conversation, even moreso than reading Detha and Kaneda's witty reparte (Go feed your beaver?!?). so let me finish with this explanation as to why the two games are different.

Halo, as described by Bungie, is two minutes of good gameplay regurgitated over and over. The first time you play Halo you get into it, the controls are intuitive and you're immediately enjoying and understanding the game.

MGS is a different beast. The story is a huge part of the gameplay, the controls are not intuitive. The conversations and cutscenes go on for a long, long time. I would argue that MGS is less about the gameplay and more about the storyline; it's a political soap opera for the fans.

Halo was created for mass consumption, MGS is not.

Islandkiwi

Detha

"I appreciate its uniqueness, and well, it's just cool. But I couldn't finish it cause it sucked. Understand?"

Actually, no.

Kaneda

I think those are just doritos with something "halo" on em.

probably just an ad or something.

presto117

if you could be anymore annoying, I don't know.

but you are.

presto117

Detha

Nah, the game was fine. I said it kinda' sucked. The non-stop traveling just to kill something in about 5-10 minutes really grated on me. Everything was bland, the game gave off a strobe effect, the controls weren't the best (I understand why), and after I got the hang of it, the bosses just weren't challenging enough to warrant the traveling you had to do. It gave me headaches. It just became a chore to play so I stopped. I killed about 10 or so. Don't remember.

I appreciate it though for it's massive scale and what it was able to do with the hardware. I appreciate it's uniqueness, and well, it's just cool. But I couldn't finish it 'cause it sucked. Understand?

Detha

What the hell would Halo 3 Doritos taste like anyways? Ass, most likely. Just like the cheeseburger doritos they've got on shelves in the experimental black "All American Classic" bags.

Doomstink

i really like the taste.

but now it's starting to get to my stomach.

presto117

Oh wait, fanboys have also worsened over the years. Should have figured it out before the first two sentences.

EnigmaNemesis

You say that when MGS left the Playstation it didn't do so well, I could argue exactly the same thing happened to Halo. How well did Halo sell on the PC? Not very well, and I know most of the reviews were pretty damning. Halo is a system seller for the Xbox, and it has better marketing than MGS but I can guarantee you that when Halo 3 makes it to PC very few people will care.

Ultimately, if you're going to describe MGS as a "niche" title then it's only logical that you describe Halo in the same way. Both games push consoles out the door, both games have their own rabid fanbases and both games don't do anywhere near as well when taken out of their console roots.

Unastheslayer

I feel perfectly comfortable saying MGS is a cult hit...frankly, gaming itself is fairly cultish. A few million units sold in the USA (population 300+)...well, that's a small slice of the pie.

Islandkiwi

You're right that MGS doesn't have the same public recognition, but to call it a cult hit when 16 million MGS games have been sold (counting only the main series on the Playstation consoles, no spin offs, ports or re-releases) seems a little strange to me. Halo is certainly the more well known of the two series but whether it is the better game is an entirely different matter. I'm not disrespecting your opinion, I just like to debate.

Unastheslayer

pikachumariachi

I stand by my comment. MGS is a cult hit. The people who love it love it passionately, but it is not a system seller...it does not generate mass appeal or excite gamers en masse as Halo does for Xbox users.

Not a knock on MGS, but don't expect to see it on a Doritos bag.

Islandkiwi

Nintenjoe

Unastheslayer

@Islandkiwi: You said "MGS is a cult hit". Halo has sold 12 million copies from 2 games on the Xbox; MGS has sold 12 million copies from the two games on PS2 and 6 million on the PS1. I suppose that makes Halo a niche game as well. Again, I've noted I don't like marketing and merchandising like this, but I recognise that it is something that is for the greater good.

@Detha: I'm sorry, if you think Shadow of the Colossus sucked then I have to instantly disregard everything you say.

Unastheslayer

New halo RTS: Halo Merch Wars...meant to be a lot like transport tycoon...

camb3h

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pikachumariachi

PENI_MASTA

Someone please nominate this guy for ban Monday.

EternalGameNation

RonJeremy4Pres

Yamster

keyransolo

It's all good. I knew they would rebel. They're just probably too young to remember the days when games WEREN'T a multi-million businness.

Right SARAMBI??

Kaneda

-

rmeehan17

Yeah, that'll work. I think.

Detha

Anthropomancer

ca$h

Bururian

Dude, you're wrong, you're not smarter or more clever than anyone else, you're not any better, so just accept you're wrong, make the needed changes, and move on.

ca$h

Detha

Anyway, hope you've learned some kind of lesson today. One being, if you act like a douche-bag, some people'll treat you like a douche-bag. If not, then well, you're hopeless, and I wasted my time like I thought I would.

P.S. Shadow of the Colossus kinda' sucked.

Detha

Doc P

And you might not like marketing like this, but I would argue that it helps to expand the gaming community. More people equals more money equals more games.

George Lucas and J.K. Rowling can afford to buy nice things, I think game designers deserve nice things too.

Islandkiwi

Uh, what? Maybe it's just me, but when I go get consoles and games, I have to PAY FOR THEM. I don't know what sort of communal fantasy world you are living in, but nothing is here just to entertain you for free. I guess you also don't watch TV because the commercials remind you it's a business, go to the movies because the trailers and tie-ins remind you it's a business, or go outside because the advertisements remind you of business at every turn.

If you can't enjoy something because it's a business, you are in for a long life of non-enjoyment.

Furthermore, you want to say you aren't dissing the game, but what you are actually doing is far worse: dissing the players. I don't play Halo because "Mountain Dew told me," but because it is the epitome of the console FPS, the best multiplayer experience available on any console, and a great game to play with friends.

Catalyst

satanyoka

Sarambi

Sarambi

Heh... I think most serious gamers go through this revelation at some point in their 20s when their nostalgia gets brutalized and branded for the sake of a buck. But it's really not a bad thing when you look at the big perspective. Games making money for people who don't know the first things about games means those people keep reinvesting their money back into games, which means the people who DO know something about games, and love making them, get to do what they enjoy and get paid a decent wage for it. Realistically, the big names at the big studios would be working 9-5 on office applications and making a lot more money, (with some casual game design in their garage) if gaming wasn't a "serious business".

As much as I enjoy those indie gems like Cave Story, I also enjoy Half-Life, Halo, Metroid, etc. Big games require big budgets, which requires big business. The key thing as a "hardcore gamer" is not to buy into the hype and marketing, to just go with the games you love and trust your gut as to what exactly makes for a good gaming experience. Anything else is for the casual market that keeps our hobbies well-funded and commercially viable.

Hagglegaggle

Detha

I knew I'd be shouted at for saying this.

I'll go now.

Take care people.

(Except DETHA and STUMINUS3, The two that can't even express their thoughts in their own language and yet think they are so smart.)

Kaneda

The reason I hate all these marketing deals and crap merchandise is because it exposes the gaming industry for what it really is: A business. When there are animated shorts or books released with a game that has always seemed alright to me, because that continues the story, it expands the game universe. When things like special edition mountain dew, cross promotions with random companies or final fantasy potions are released that simply serves to remind me that the game industry is not here to entertain us out of generosity, it's here to take our money, then take a little more, then a little more.

Please keep in mind that I am not dissing the game itself, it's not my cup of tea but I can accept that other people do like it. I am simply pointing out that all this promotion of the game serves to remind us all that games are not just a hobby, they're a business and I believe that what angers people.

Unastheslayer

Detha

And sorry Halo 3 happens to be a sequel, maybe you should've sent Bungie an email asking for a turn-based trading card game to finish it off. And I'm also sorry Halo is quite possibly the biggest game in the video games market at the moment. And I'm sorry MS has decided to try and make some money off of their number one franchise.

jihadjoe343

You might not like all those beer-swilling frat boys tea-bagging their opponents, but Bungie and MS love 'em. That's money in the bank, the same reason EA can release a near-identical Madden with a new chronological designation every 12 months and show maximum profits for minimum investiture. Even when the hardcore fans become disillusioned with repetitive play experience or endless merchandising and move on to other products, the Joe Sixpacks of the world adhere to the franchises they are familiar with.

Incidentally, attacking someone's character when attempting a rebuttal is the psych 101 definition of overcompensating for having a weak argument.

Hagglegaggle

Liquefied gummy worm flavored.

chiablo

First, I think it's more hip to love Halo than hate it these days.

Second, it's not Halo I hate, it's the whole "money and advertising and fame and sales are more important than new concepts and ideas and killing people and trash talking is awesome" thing.

Kaneda

I should have checked that word.

But hey if you guys want to discuss in French, I should be fine. But I don't expect you guys to be that "refined"..

Kaneda

jihadjoe343

I actually like the fact that games are getting more like movies in advertising. Just makes people more accepting of them.

Zim

raison

@ARboom: Mountain Dew normally has more caffeine than Coke. Except in Canada, where it has none. Legislation on the contents of drinks and all.

Dragoonkin

It worked.

Hyperfludd

"Raffined" is not a word, so I don't understand what you're trying to say.

stuminus3

AppleSalsa

"The most fun you can have immobilized with stainless steel screws in your skull."

Coming soon: The Halo 3 Halon fire Extinguisher!

"Don't breathe this!"

strider_mt2k

The difference between Halo and Star Wars is as wide as the difference between The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. All 4 products have been marketed like hell, but you'll have to admit 2 of them are definitely more raffined.

And hey, I know tons of people are probably happy with the huge wave of Halo madness sweeping the world.

I'm just not the kind to drink Mountain Dew and Budweiser with my goon friends and shoot people online then teabag them while swearing like a stupid grunt with my headset.

If you are though, good for you. The world these days is filled with products designed and marketed just for you. Rejoice.

Kaneda

CelluloidDream

yes, i have played halo and halo 2 and beat them AND was very bored with the endings.

i think alot of games are going to run into this. GTA4, MGS4, killzone (big time) bioshock, (i really don't see the big deal about this game.) fable 2, etc......

thoughts?

jfx316

okenny_unbanned

Black_Ops_19

Definitely. Look at this tie-in merchandising garbage, and tell me anyone actually remembers this crap franchise 30 years later. [www.rebelscum.com]

The nerve of those brands that want to cement their market share, I tell you.

Hagglegaggle

ca$h

I don't know why a gaopif 15 milligrams of caffeine scares me, but as with a lot of the stuff coming out of the Halo 3 machine, it does.

ca$h

dutchlove

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Islandkiwi

A-Rude-Hero

I'm not a big fan of FPS (except Day of Defeat), but it goes for any game or product. Games are now for the mass and the focus is now based on what generates money. Games are not what they used to be. It seems they have been captured, stripped and exposed to become whores controlled by pimps who have them rub against poles and beg for attention. Now poeple wants guns or half naked chicks.

And then MS wil say "our game is so huge its launch compares to a movie release". I wouldn't touch that game with a ten-foot-pole. How arrogant. And yet they're missing the whole point.

I just pray that they will never stop to make games like Shadow of the Colossus. So humble, that game is. It wasn't designed or marketed to make money. I understand developping games is now costly, but fuck, there's a limit to trying to make as much money as possible with the product.

But hey. I know a lot of people eat and play fast food. I just find it sad that it seems to have become the norm.

Kaneda

Dimipapa

xvitiumx

hvnlysoldr

jihadjoe343

Termisk8er

Tom Clancy's Samuraidino