I think RROD is more a play on "Blue Screen of Death" and a shot at M$ and their poor quality than anything else.

Ya know, Ring - Screen. Sounds closer than U or C.

By the way, I am hoping to hear good things about the Falcon version so I can be confident in picking one up some day soon.

griffinrider

Veltis

As for the "Flawless Console", I really actually thought that Moore's resignation meant less hardware issues, maybe even a full on recall for repairs, but then again I just finished watching the series finale of "Reboot" again when all of Mainframe is instantly repaired some time after the death of Megabyte.

Man I can't wait for Reboot's return.

Akari-Ryo

sorry... could resist...

I am however shocked at how MS can have sooo many people defending it when it has a 30%+ failure rate while other companies catch so much shit with 1-2% failure rate...

Don't get me wrong I want a 360... but not until it's fixed...

evil_ken00

SirHamsterz

Ether02

HockeyMac18

kw4k

TheIrishNinja

So in other words, the whole system is just one big poorly designed piece of junk.

I think they would have been better off saying there was one single root cause, and that they'd found and fixed it. As it is, they're making it sound like fixing it is basically impossible, because everything is interdependent.

badasscat

ShirtGuyDom

I agree with you that their repair process is good, but the thing is that both times I had to send it back for repair I didn't get my system back for at least 3 weeks. And 3 weeks without my XBox is rough. So even though MS pays for the shipping and repair, I'd much rather the system be more reliable so I don't have to send it in for repairs every few months.

valkyriex

I know for a fact that MS is shipping out brand new 65nm consoles from their "red ring" factory as replacements right now. Every console manufactured in July 2007 or later will have this new hardware. Look out for it!

Teranoid

Of course I don't have that problem anymore after I shipped it off and got a replacement.

RROD.

I don't know what I did for it to die one me. Honestly I take super care of my consoles and always make sure they're well ventilated and clean. It just one day up and died on me after I downloaded the Blue Dragon demo. Guess it didn't like it. heh.

I bought a Nyko Intercooler EX (updated version) so I got a few extra fans blowing the heat out of the box now. It's a little louder than I'd like, but its not annoyingly terrible. If it'll help prolong the life of my box then I'm all for it.

I still love the xbox 360. I love LIVE and I love the ARCADE. I will be buying the updated box when the time comes (later this year). Maybe I'll get one of those halo editions. I do like those.

vonfaustus

ravingcritic

Dimipapa

Collapse The Control

Cellien

As long as they let me ship it to them, and get a new broken one, I'm fine with it.

Gigith

gordynyc

Gagamus

The fact that there are people willing to forgive Microsoft because XBOX360 have a lot of games and they extended the warranty. Just remember that Microsoft have a lot of games because they launch early by sacrificing hardware quality and in turn they pours billion dollars for the warranty program. Is it an acceptable business practice?

If XBOX360 and PS3 launch at the same time (even if it means Sony had to sacrifice hardware quality), I think XBOX360 wouldn't sell this well. But imagine the critics later towards Sony if PS3 fails as much as XBOX360.... (not that they didn't deserve it but rather from what I see, there are more people that hate Sony. Maybe because the combination of the DRM fiasco and the exploding battery).

What I would like to see from Microsoft is at least they would recall all the XBOX360 that are sitting in the store and replace it with a better designed hardware so that people who buy XBOX360 today would feel at ease instead of just pushing the 3 year warranty program even if it means less XBOX360 to sell.

Rurouni

I bought my first 360 on August 26, 2006. By September 12, I was on my tird. Because both breakdowns were within EB's return policy, I was able to take them back there, and get new ones. After almost a year, the third one just red ring'd, last week. When I got the third replacement, I bought EB's $40 warranty, that let me return a broken 360 within a year no questions asked... I just bought it again, on #4.

Tenth

If these systems are destined to fail regardless, that would also be good to know.

Marion517

The launch consoles came with a video featuring those developers. Not sure if it's still on there when you buy a 360 now, or not. I'm guessing not.

But even in that early video you saw that the first thing MS thought about was the external appearance of the console. And I do think it looks nice. Probably the best looking console ever made. It's just that it doesn't seem to work very well with all that power crammed inside the "inhale."

I wonder if anyone still has that video on their 360? All that's left of my launch unit is the limited edition remote control that I forgot to put back in the box when I returned it. In light of the various hardware issues that have been popping up left and right, it'd be interesting to view.

Sloopydrew

demonwolf

Gamemaster

I say this because several newcomers don't seem to know the rules, ala soulscreamreturns with his caps a few days ago...

Gamemaster

MS: You got a great available and upcoming lineup, probably the main reason people put up with all the failures, so it's due time you really did something to the hardware problem you undeniably have. Stop with the excuses and FIX IT.

Or don't, and never see the 15 million mark :/

kryo

sectionz

You might want to steal an extra Xbox from a loved one while yours is away. There is a very very busy gaming season coming.

okenny_unbanned

[www.gametrailers.com]

hezz05

Sooner or later it will all be forgotten. It will go down in history books with the infamous DRE

blahism

-

hezz05

The inside of the 360 is a shambles. The right hand side is fine, you've got a grille that covers the entire right side of the system allowing air to be sucked in and blown over the CPU heatsink. The left hand side must be like a furnace though, especially if you have a Premium/Hard Drive attached. You've got a piddly heatsink over the GPU first, coupled with a DVD drive plonked right on top which leaves about...oooh..2cm of airspace? Making matters even worse, when a HDD is attached the left side grille is shrunk to about 5cm x 5cm, allowing for minimal air to be drawn into the system. At the very least MS should have had heapipes to help draw heat away from the GPU, not to mention a fan on the left side to blow air over the GPU.

A PC enthusiast wouldn't have green lighted the cooling system in the 360, I'm shocked a company like Microsoft even let it past the drawing board.

All that being said, I'd like to point out I'm a 360 owner and I love it. I just wish switching on the system didn't involve me staring anxiously at the ring of light each time. I've had 5 RROD already, all of which went away after a reset. Although I'm pretty sure now its just a matter of time being I send out for the coffin.

sionicus_rex

okenny_unbanned

can't people just admit that the mighty MS fucked up? just alittle? i mean, the the 3 ring thing isn't an isolated thing anymore. it's been pretty much proven at this point. but rather than making excuses left and right, MS should just say this: "look, we fucked up and we're doing something about it. we've got the new 3 year warranty and we're implementing other means to satisfy our customer base." it's not the end of the world. if it's a design problem, just say so. it doesn't seem like it is going to stop anyone from getting a 360.

this is why people come down so hard on companies. the lack of honesty in the face of glaring problems. sony did it with the price of the PS3, and they do something about it......eventually. was it enough? i guess we'll see. i think MS is shooting themselves in the foot while they are running the race. but, i don't see it really hurting them in the long run. i mean, with halo 3 and mass effect (?? anyone heard about this getting pushed back?) coming out and people already having bought a few 360s replacements, i'm sure MS will do fine this x-mas.

jfx316

That implies to me that the 360 is a heaping pile of junk. They want me to believe they've been making changes all along and the system's still low quality. Just image how bad it'd be if they didn't make these supposed changes.

frankstallone

(PS: I'm going to sop second guessing the guy with the hammer now.)

@SolidSnizzle: You're new here, or you're the ghost of some previously banned poster, so understand that I mean this in the interests of not seeing you charge up the hill toward certain doom like so many young men of our generation:

You're headed toward banhammer nomination at full tilt.

Unless you can back it up with actual data (which you can't), don't troll out "99.9%" failure rates and lists of flaws that are largely, if not completely, redundant (and misspelled). Although it is possible to use hyperbole to illustrate your point, you have to be careful to use it effectively, otherwise it tends to backfire... badly.

For example: if the 360 does indeed have "50,002" design flaws (as you've implied) to deal with, I posit that 49,998 of them are Sony fanboys with more time than sense.

Yes, most 360 owners (myself included) of reasonable intelligence (... I like to include myself here as well) are frustrated with the failure rate and MicroSoft's position on the matter, even if we understand why they are being cagey. MicroSoft needs to get their act together on this issue, and most signs point to them realizing this on some level and acting on that knowledge: consumers have gotten extended warranties and been reimbursed on previously paid-for repairs (for RRoD at least), cornered execs have lightened up their position on talking about the problem, etc.

Certainly it isn't all they could be doing, but it is on the right track.

Though of course I still prefer the negligible failure rates attached to my Wii and PS3, what is done is done. All that MicroSoft can do at this point is make good on their commitment to consumers and attempt to rectify the situation. As long as they fix the issues, I will be less concerned with how they cover their asses from class-action lawsuits with carefully worded language in the process.

Now, if they keepin RRoD'ing after the new chipsets and boosted heatsinks... then all bets are off and I'll see Peter Moore's head on a stick, whether he's left for EA or not.

dv8godd

Ghede

The crap out is usually accelerated by having poor ventilation of the 360.

What this means in reality is that if the unit is clogged with dust or is put near another appliance that generates heat then ventilation will be poor.

Even having your system on in a hot house in summer can raise the internal temp that 1 degree too many! This is why Microsoft had to allocate such a large chunk of change to fix the issue. They litterally have 10+ million units out in the field that can be made to crap out simply by placing them in direct sunlight while they are on, too close to the exhaust port of a PS3 or even having the air intake near a humble Wii on a hot day!

The irony of the situation is that the GPU is designed to work fine at the high temperatures. It's everything else in the box that can't handle it.

penhalion

Well said brother, well said. I've been pondering the same thing myself. Theres no way in hell, a company like MS wouldn't know about the faulty design of the 360. Just like you stated, the "Suits" wanted to push this system out as quickly as possible. Fucking Nimrods!

ShinobiFist(PSN-XBL)

KRIGBERT

Let's face it, this will only stop when people stop supporting Micro$oft.

Evo

Brian Ashcraft

I'm not even sure if that's what you meant, but it seems like everytime you post someone ends up missing...

Gamemaster

Where they write "The cooling fan was half of desktop PCs - apparently to reduce noise."

The origional article [techon.nikkeibp.co.jp] tells us that it is the wind throughput that is reduced.

"The cooler fan's maximum wind speed was 1.1 m/s, only 1/2 to 1/3 compared with general desktop PCs. It may be partly because the fan rotation was reduced to lower noise."

Which is clear, and could easy have been copied to the kotaku article.

ztilleto

KRIGBERT

usedtabe

Brian Ashcraft

now that i come to think of it, you're spot on!

thats why people buy the big 12cm fans for their computers (like i have), because they can spin slower for the same amount of cooling and so are quieter.

Did the invesigator guy say that it was for noise or was that something kotaku added?

DUOPHONIX.com

[folonline.net]

folonline

MarkPhoenix

...a lot...

Gamemaster

I wonder if it might be something to do with where the systems are built? The original Xbox had problems with the DVD drive dying if the box had been assembled in their Hungary plant.

Or maybe it's as you've suggested, and simply to do with how the system is used. Personally I have mine sitting up on my desk, it's never been on carpet or in an enclosed area in its life, and I'm careful to keep it as far away from the power brick as possible since that thing heats up alarmingly (the brick is usually on the floor below the desk).

If the problem is heat-related then there are certainly people who put it in environments that are less than ideal. But it seems too random to just be something that simple.

atomicstrawberry

superbabyproject

Mongoosekun

ztilleto

yea i got nothing better to do, killing time till i get to go home

VenoMuS

HockeyMac18

Scipher

RROD
Scratching discs
Bad DVD drive
Overheating
The ability to warp youre cds through intense heat making them useless.....
Cheap thermal paste
Pore hardware
Retarded DVD tray dosent know when to shut
Cheap fans
Pore hardware design
Pore ventilation
RROD
Pore heatsinks

and oh yea did i forget....RROD

NOTICE MOST OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE JUST SUB PROBLEMS OF THE MAIN IDEA but it just adds to the horrbleness (if its a aword) to the situation

and year 2007 360 changes...

New Heatsinks !!!!
Smaller less heat producing chip !!!!

2 down 50 thousand more to go !!!! dang billy were ona role !!!

SolidSnizzle

1. Crossed circuit due to solder melt.
2. GPU failure.
3. GPU popping off the board physically.
4. Cracked motherboard.
5. Blown capacitor due top cross feed.

So yea the actual crap out may be one of many but the root cause is most definitely a single component! You may get the rare fluke crash or bad capacitor etc. etc. but, that would have given microsoft only a 5% failure rate which is in line with the industry as a whole.

penhalion

Still, if the problem is so bad that MS actually put up the money for the warrenty extensions, there's got to be more to it than the occasional moron who thought it would be a good idea to wrap his 360 in an electric blanket.

Insomnia Bob

I mean, I know we all say we want "hot titles", but this is a bit much! Heh. Heh. Get it? Hot titles? Heh...Oh, shut the fuck up. Like you never made a bad pun.

Insomnia Bob

tozza

Darkest Daze

usfslacker

wage

tozza

Jawajoey

tozza

usfslacker

They just gave some nice, honest information, and changed nothing on their stance.

What they're saying is that it isn't "transistor 57b breaks after this much use" or "GPU becomes detached at this temperature." Heat causes a variety of problems, which can break the system.

The point is, one person's RROD is not for the exact same reason as someone else's. There are a bunch of things that can break to give the lights.

That's all. No one is claiming that the red lights aren't the big issue here, but the red lights are by definition GENERAL hardware failure. There is no one bad component that causes the failures.

Seriously, people. It's called reading comprehension.

Jawajoey

Would you chose

A. Red Ring of Death (RROD)
or
B. Red U of Death (RUOD

or...... lets not get caried away here it just it sounds like destruction and it resembles MS..... and there other pore product "Windows" which we all no and fear too the Blue Screen of Death.

SolidSnizzle

That would probably relate to the design flaw that causes the motherboard to warp and unseat the GPU's BGA package. It doesn't even get that my GPU has fallen off the board. It's not something the designers probably ever intended to occur, let alone have an error for.

Also, anecdotal evidence (take it for what it is) suggests that 360's with the new heatpipe and sink run quieter and cooler. I'd say that despite the problem they've had with the DVD drive (which isn't something only Microsoft have ever had a problem with) the single biggest killer has been unseated GPU's. Thus, the three red lights.

splines

Who the hell came up with "red ring of death", 3 lights does not a ring make.

VenoMuS

Each pattern of lights has a different meaning on the 360, we're just all familiar with the general "hardware failure" one. For another example, if you don't plug in a video cable, you'll get a full ring of all four lights.

Dragoonkin

Shijirou

ThisCharmingMan

TOCATL

Has anybody realized the fact that the 360 has a a 99.9% failure rate ??? And now it found out that the 360 has no single big issue ??? No wonder the majority of failures were RROD they probably changed the firmware to show that any problem related to hardware GPU or CPU bam RROD !!!! LOL even after this so called "Falcon" 360 comes out youll be getting RROD for just random pore hardware quality failure... way to go MS !!!!! ....... morons.........

SolidSnizzle

#1 was a brand new console. The DVD drive started making unholy noises then eventually just died.

#2 was a refurbished "replacement unit". The DVD drive scratched up a bunch of my games. I've had to replace MLB2K7 twice already.

AnEternalEnigma

"Madness"... THIS IS SPARTA!!!!

Jamaicangmr

While you might have had a few faulty drives, etc, by far the largest issue is the RRoD.

As Shoitaan said, admission of fault is admission of liability. We all know it's bullshit, but let's not pretend Microsoft are the only ones who've ever done this.

At least they've extended the warranties. And we know that cost them a bundle.

splines

I mean at least if the heat sink was the only problem, it was simply a judgment call based on form factor. Easily fixed by piping it to another region of the board.

epionx111

Providence

Silenthillnight

Strider_Seven

They're adding heat sinks, they've extended the warranty, and they're soon gonna be releasing with smaller cooler processors. And MS tech support is actually rather good. They're fixing the problem, slowly but surely. There's your answer.

I'm sure if my launch model wasn't still kicking ass I'd feel different, but it is, so I don't :)

Shoitaan

Yes, because the "Intercooler" worked out so well.

mercatfat

...Dumbasses.

okenny_unbanned

DylanK

Len Bias Cocaine Surplus

Sloopydrew

Make sure to invest in a good cooling system.

stennex

Digitalguardian

Heihachi.vs.Kazuya

user.error: like jesus christ on acid

Lyner

Shoitaan

VenoMuS