MajoShinpan

Abishai

lootenplunder

Umm... that's bordering on comment spam.

Marlor

[wiinintendo.net]

Check it out.

FloatingWorld

What do the backwards hat wearing, car decal flying, frat-boy "gaming bros" of America have against bringing gaming to people who don't usually play games? Its not like they wouldn't secretly enjoy their moms eventually joining their Gears of War circle jerk...

GrapenutsRobot

daxter101

Super Mario Sunshine
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Metroid Prime
and then there was Mario Kart double dash

a couple of months after those games, u had the good stuff coming in fairly often, but then good exclusive Wii titles kinda stopped coming out. At the rate of the Xbox and Ps2 that is.

Now with the Wii we got:
Mario Galaxy
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Metroid Prime 3
and now theres gonna be the new Mario Kart

No one saw what happened to the GC comeing, with barely any good games coming out in the later cycle of last generation. But could the same thing happen again? I mean, Nintendo brings out all of its 1st party big titles at the start and gets a nice big league, but then is it gonna be almost a whole generation till we see the new instalments of these games? Although Wii hasnt gone completly casual (yet) if you look at the upcoming 3rd party games, will you be playing them for as long as you have it, like you would unreal tournament or a final fantasy game? Da Blob looks fun and all, but my Grandma isn't gonna be at my house everyday and my perants wont take time to play Wii when they have Work. i want to see more games for "me". games i can start playing and lose track of time for hours. Sure I'm gonna love the 1st party titles, but what happens after? Like GameTrailers said, " making a great console for everyone to enjoy is one thing, Forgetting the people that got you to where you are today is another..."

daxter101

I think "hardcore gamer" implies someone who wants good games, not any specific genre(s). I consider myself "hardcore", and I'm sick of FPS games and dislike most sports games (other than Madden and some soccer games). There goes the stereotype.

Just my $.02.

ビッグ ボス

EdgerRel

Dex

otakupaul

Make that 'rendering'.

Baz

"Are we so busy looking forward to games that exist in development form that we forget the real joy of sitting down and playing a game? Are we as gamers so caught up in frame rates, control setups, polygons, and console brands that we forget what makes games fun?"

Apparently, yes. I love listening to the 1UP Yours podcast, but I had to take a step back when I heard God of War 2 described as an 'old' game, and when they started gushing over the eyebrow rending in Mass Effect (seriously).

Baz

otakupaul

bootsielon

But of course, still thank you for taking the time to set up your little system, like the door on door salesman you are :D

What does it take to see that the beauty of the wii lies in its simplicity. Want some 'more'? Go out and buy a 360 or PS3. But don't be afraid that your 'ambitious' games will die now. Everyone who thinks that games are made solely because they 'sound' cool, forgets that they are made by companies that want to make money. Before development begins, you tend to do research to calculate the odds that your game will sell.

At least the bigger companies will. Indie developers might do it because they want to share their ideas :).

marlblank

i kinda think wii's getting more of a free pass for not really having games right now compared to the other two, but i digress.

Someone pointed out that all the 8-bit games i grew up with, by defition here, are casual: 2 buttons or so, mostly time-killing games.

As a PS3 owner, and someone who enjoys gaming on and offline with HD and the lot i guess im lumped in easily with hardcore, but i play the shit out of games like Katamari and old school ones like ToeJam & Earl. Wii sports literally sold me on the Wii, at that.

The categories dont fit most of us, just the extreme on one side that believes new markets will kill higher-end games, or the new breed of nintendo zombies that thinks sales makes a good game, and anyone who doesnt agree is a "halo-playing frat boy". There's ignorane on both sides of the spectrum, and barberg called it when he saw it.

TheIrishNinja

and bluray forever, bluray won the format war for god damn get over yourself.

ch0rx

Heck, I've been playing all my life and can be considered to some extent a hardcore player, but I still enjoy the easyness of Wii - just sit down (or stay up) and play instantly.

melw

"Take a PS3 into a Wii home, not a hardcore Nintendo fan Wii home, but a new convert, new gamer Wii home. Take this PS3 and set it up [hopefully on an HDTV]

Bring DDR, Karaoke Revolution, Guitar Hero, Eye Toy, and to not leave out actual PS3 games, bring Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter, and NBA2k7. Teach them how to play DDR and Guitar Hero, configure the Eyetoy for them and put in "Play", let them mess around with Motorstorm, NBA, and Virtua Fighter.

On top of that, teach them about Blu Ray, show them how to view photos, videos and how to listen to all their mp3s and CDs, guide them through the web browser, and make sure they know all their DVDs and any PSONe/PS2 games they might have or find are playable."

I think you may have negated your point with those three paragraphs! :)

Baz

LMAO, best reply EVER.

peristalsis

Tell me, which of these "hardcore" games are not technically possible on the Gamecube or Wii (and by "not technically possible", I mean the hardware can't handle it, not who owns the license/studios/etc.)?

There is NO reason these types of games could not exist on the Wii. And if the Wii keeps on selling the way it does, then just like the PS2 last gen, the most underpowered (but most popular) system will get the most games.

And that includes the crap games, and the PS2 was no stranger to it's share of crap games.

LucidLearner

Or at least, you would if there were more of them.

But anyway, you can then play Big Cross-Platform Release 14 on your 360 in HD (and goodness knows, being pretty is probably all it's good at to take the general trend) while your mum, sister, dad, aunt, grandma etc. enjoy the Wii.

And then you have to fight to get the controllers back. Sure it brings families together, but it also tears them apart when it's time to decide who gets to play single player next.

Mawich

L_K_M

It doesn't matter how many times I tell a customer that such and such a game got bad reviews across the board or that I personally dislike the taste the game leaves in my mouth and they still go ahead and buy it. They later come into the store and want to trade it in and feel stupid yet they will continue to ignore my suggestions. I'm all for personal experience over taking someone else's word for it, but at least buy it used so the companies don't think people WANT this bullshit.

The average Wii titles is garbage. As stated above by numerous people, there are only a handful of games I could see myself playing - even the party games get old fast.

As a side note, my views on casual vs hardcore are along these lines: Casual games are games anyone can just pick up and play without any kind of extensive "training" or learning curve to speak of. A game like Bejeweled is easily considered casual, however Puzzle Quest, may fall out of that category even though at its core, it is still Bejeweled. There is just a lot more going on that your average bejeweled player will likely not care about. At the same time, that game is a perfect example of bridging the gap between casual and hardcore players.

Hardcore games are anything that ISN'T strictly casual. In fact, we could even go deeper into this issue and state that there is middle ground that is just called traditional while hardcore would be relegated to games that not only require more than simple inputs and commands, but also a good amount of time and practice to play competitively. That's my take anyway. Terms lose their meaning overtime. I just want to see less crap across the board. Please, developers, stop making bullshit games for the Wii and use the technology at your disposal. This goes doubly for the DS.

Bloodspoor

Laser_iCE

The fellows Sony/MS calls "Hardcores" did a sizable amount of damage to the gaming scene over the last decade wherein they were dominant, in exactly the same way that the "Image Effect" eventually crippled the comic book scene in the 90s. Yeah, both industries got more PROFITABLE, but they also got more insular, niche-driven and creatively-void than they'd ever been.

Riddle me this: At the height of the 16-bit era, there was a Pew poll showing that more American youngsters could immediately identify Mario than Mickey Mouse. Do you think the same numbers of people know who the hell Master Chief is, or had heard of Lara Croft before the movies? Games are/were so much "bigger" now than they were in the 80s and 90s, but they also reached the zenith of closed-off, incestuous "niche"-hood. And that's a big part of why assclowns like Jack Thompson and Mitt Romney are able to get mileage by blaming random evil on it: Gamers allowed themselves and their hobby to become this spooky, easily-scapegoated "other." And to make matters worse, Microsoft and Sony openly exacerbated the problem by turning console development into a Graphics Whore Arms Race with these expensive behemoth machines, further ensuring the limiting of the gaming scene to an innevitably-dwindling pool of technoratti and "Hardcores."

Open you're eyes: We were ROCKETING towards another Video Game Crash, this one with an added element of "and good riddance, damn things were causing school shootings!" and didn't even see it. Nintendo and Miyamoto saved the entire industry from the FIRST crash with the NES and SMB; (and how much y'wanna bet if there'd been an internet at the time it would've been full of "Hardcores" hating on how simplistic and casual the NES D-pad was compared with the "skill" demanded by the 2600 joystick or the Colecovision phone-pad) and now the Wii MIGHT have saved it again: The market is getting bigger, creative opportunities are increasing, and most-importantly the "outsider" tag is slowly fading away. Will former non-gamers remain easy prey for Thompson's sermonizing when they're spending fun nights with their Miis, or maybe even making new friends of Mario, Link and Samus?

moviebob

It's pretty sad that I have to justify my comment when it's pretty clear that it's a stab at the absurdity of the entire situation. Yes, it is definitely my current Now Playing list and I define that as games that I haven't finished. The purpose of putting it up there was twofold, really. First, it's to point out the absurdity of elitism in video games. There's definitely a lot of great games that fall into either "hardcore" or "casual" category and the fact remains that they're enjoyable... They -are- games after all, right? Does it matter then if they're old-school, next-gen, casual, or hardcore? Isn't the point of games to provide a well-designed and well-executed interactive diversion? So why must hardcore gamers have to separate themselves from the rest of people who enjoy games? To justify their investment?

That's the second point I was trying to make in presenting such a long list. How much time and money are we actually spending on these things? If you notice my list, they're mostly games that came out at least a year or so ago. Some even date to almost fifteen years back! But they're mostly good games. Are we so busy looking forward to games that exist in development form that we forget the real joy of sitting down and playing a game? Are we as gamers so caught up in frame rates, control setups, polygons, and console brands that we forget what makes games fun? Why on earth did we choose this hobby anyway?

Abishai, you most definitely hit the nail on the head with your comment when you say to stop buying new games and finish the ones I have. If only we can expand that statement to the rest of the gaming community. Look at the games that are out now. Timeless classics that range from the elegant simplicity of Tetris to the utter maddening difficulty of Ninja Gaiden: Sigma. At their core, they remain very much the same, interactive diversions.

In the interest of full disclosure, I wasn't really kidding when I was asking for some of y'all's lifespans. I'm a university student, after all, and I actually study. That means, I'm pretty much playing a ton of games during summer breaks but only one or two when school's in and it'd be nice to know that I can finish 'em sometime in the future. After all, what do "hardcore" gamers do when they get older? Do they magically stop gaming when they reach a certain age? Or are the kids in the next generation going to complain that developers don't cater to their taste because they're too busy chasing after our money by providing gaming experiences that we can enjoy?

RWHC

here's another take on the subject:

First, there seems to be a division between the common usage and the actual definition of what "hardcore" or more importantly "hard-core" (or "hard core")

means. So let's look at the definitions (all from The Merriam-Webster online dictionary):
Main Entry: hard-core
Function: adjective
Date: 1940

1 a: of, relating to, or being part of a hard core b: confirmed, die-hard

3: characterized by or being the purest or most basic form of something : fundamental

There. Now we have an (almost?) acceptable definition of what a "hardcore gamer" (sic) is - now let's see what the contrast to a "casual" is:
Main Entry: ca·su·al
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Late Latin; Anglo-French casuel, from Late Latin casualis, from Latin casus fall, chance - more at case
Date: 14th century
1: subject to, resulting from, or occurring by chance
2 a: occurring without regularity : occasional b: employed for irregular periods c: met with on occasion and known only

superficially
3 a (1): feeling or showing little concern : nonchalant (2): lacking a high degree of interest or devotion

fans> (3): done without serious intent or commitment b (1): informal, natural (2): designed for

Consolcwby

MadMinstrel

I can't help but notice that your post keeps saying "teach them" on various things. The learning curve of the Wii is more like "okay,you know how to point at stuff? You know how to swing a bat, right? - hop to it."

For all you candyasses who think a great game is measured in resolution and FPS, go download Nethack. Free, ASCII graphics, used to run on my 8088 back in the day, and possibly The Best Videogame Ever.

indiegeek

There's a big difference between having to sit down at a computer to listen to music or view photos or videos. I never said it wasn't about the games. Right now, it's all about WAITING for the games. Honestly, the Wii and PS3 both have as many games

Super Paper Mario
Wii Sports
Resident Evil Wii
Zelda Twilight Princess

Resistance
Motorstorm
Virtua Fighter
Ninja Gaiden Sigma

It's pretty obvious from the game list that one appeals to a certain group of people and the other to their polar opposite. They're also polar opposites in price, and in strategy and marketing as well.

So maybe there is a difference, between "pressing X" and "waving your arm", however, it seems the core gamer feels the same way. I can't help but feel as if the PS3 is fighting a losing battle. I don't work for Sony, but I certainly wish them luck and enjoy their products to no end.

blurayforever143

You've just described the difference between driving the bandwagon and jumping on it.

Love or hate the Wii, it was designed from the get-go to do exactly what it is doing now. Nintendo had a plan, implemented it, and is reaping the benefits.

The suggestion that the PS3 (or 360) can now "reposition" itself through marketing is sheer lunacy. Sony had a plan. MS had a plan. For all we know, those plans may still work.

I guess my biggest problem with your suggestion is that it implies that Nintendo just stumbled into it's current position through clever marketing, and any other company can do the same thing if the advertising is good enough.

Nintendo said the obstacle to opening up the gaming market was the complexity of the controller. Their solution wasn't to provide free training sessions with a 20 button controller. They redesigned it. Sony and MS didn't. So if Nintendo is to be believed, the single most important obstacle for opening up the market still exists on the other two systems. This is why I think your argument is weak.

The Wii is not a marketing coup. It is an example of what happens when technical and creative elements of a company work together toward a single vision. And yeah, they marketed it too.

FlapjacksAreTasty

Doing this with a system with a standard controller, like the PS3, won't work. Instructions are more complex and it doesn't get people moving around. "Press X to jump" is just a turn-off to people who didn't grow up with video games. My Dad used to say "You're just staring at the screen like a zombie and pressing buttons. How can that be fun?" Stupid as it may seem, for the non-techie, non-gamer crowd, the difference between pressing R1 and swinging the Wiimote right is the difference between night and day.

The iPod sells because it's simple and intuitive. The RazR sold because it looked cool and worked like every other cell phone on the market--no new tricks to learn. And Windows 95? The PS3 isn't like Windows, it's like the EZ Multimedia Suite that you buy your parents for Christmas, show them how to use, and then nobody ever mentions again (with a copy of F.E.A.R. thrown in).

erlik

But I mean, does that make me "casual" or "hardcore"? I don't have a clue. Thats why I make my own labels!

MR. FAP☆FAP!

Distrato

Sunjammer

I did this for, I believe year. Everyday after school, after my home work I'd rush to play Nintendo. And you know what, eventually I became a hardcore gamer. I've played them all. From less played, but still amazing games like Eternal Darkness to Gears of War.

A similar story exists for my ex-girlfriend. She become addicted to NintendDogs. Loves it like it were an actual dog. Now her favorite games if Grand Theft Auto 3.

People may start playing one thing in life. However, what they end up playing is the only thing that matters. Let them start out with casual games. If they like them, they'll continue. If they don't like them, well, then they'll stop.

NotSoCool

I would say its fair to say games like Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi, Super Ghouls and Ghost etc are hardcore games though. I think to fall into this genre a game has to be so hard that the explistives do not stop for more than 5 min's and playing it almost to the point of wanting to make you quit but not due to crappy/cheap game design or controls (though it is usually the first thing that rolls off the tongue) you know deep down in your heart it is not(even if it is) and its good enough you want to beat it if only to say you did.

I have a Wii and I enjoy it from time to time it isn't my favorite system. But I dont see a problem with Nintendo reaching out to a more casual market and I will enjoy many of the titles that are aimed at the traditional pre Wii gamer and maybe some of the casual titles. And I will also enjoy my 360 and PS3 too, maybe a little more since they are aimed more directly towards the traditional gamer.

Konchu

sweetie55

debloon

glamnesia

Adults love Wii. Kids love Wii. And there's plenty of hardcore game love to go around, especially this holiday season.

akhomerun

DonWii

in my opinion the wii is a gimmick, its novelty. be honest with yourself. you know you'd rather have played Zelda with a controller. who here is really looking forward to playing metroid, super smash, kart, and all the other games on a stupid wii stick

but im not asking will the wii last. its more about will the wii last as a "casual" system. i mean wii sports got old real quick. most other titles for the wii arent really "casual". most casuals after playing wii sports will probably never pickup another title besides wii music and fit.

i think wii will be gamecube all over again. except now there is this whole "casual" aspect to it. you can bet that in 2years the only people playing wiis will be the same people that where playing gamecubes.

battlemaus

Moral? Complication fucking sucks. People do not want to wrestle with their system in order to play a game. They do not want media capabilities when they have, shock horror, a television that is fully capable of doing so anyway.

It's the true sign of a next-gen whore who downloads a TV show that he could be watching live much easier anyway.

Burguois, Teabagger of Olde

I think if it pisses you off this much you never cared for it in the first place.

And that's... okay.

If it isn't your cup of tea, go drink a Red Bull and shut up already.

It's just crazy that they take it so personal that they're no longer Nintendo's favorite. I happen to like that I can finally play games with my older sister and others who are not gamers when they come over, and I can still enjoy the console when they leave. Maybe it's because my attention span isn't completely shot yet but I find I have more than enough games for the Wii right now to keep me busy.

PBnZelly

Anyways, back to the topic: I just witnessed the Wii effect myself while on vacation with my family where all the adults 'took over' the wii and pretty much turned it into a digital drinking game. Just as surprising was that there were four of us with DS lites and one copy of Brain Academy so we competed head-to-head like a game show. It was quite a site to see everyone going crazy on DSes! Say what you want about casual games but Nintendo literally created new customers right before my eyes.

fragmaster

Um... Have you played a single video game since 1995? I mean, even Zelda 1 in 1986 had save points.

sxp151, the happy-headed nose

lootenplunder

Today supermarkets have ruined the hardcore food experience. Literally anyone with a couple bucks can buy whatever food they want. There's no challenge, no respect from being a great supermarket shopper, and it has sucked the fun out of food.

Sure, there's still hunting. Sure, people can grow their own food if they want, but just because what I like is still available doesn't mean I can't complain that other people are getting what they like too.

You can bet that if the gaming industry keeps on down this road, one day soon literally anyone will be able to pick up a game and have fun. And I won't stand for it.

RDaneel

I'm sure that'd end this dumbass argument.

fecalchaos

Some people thing getting wasted is fun, some people think playing baseball is fun, some people think doing math problems is fun. I think that the Wii is fun. I think that Guitar Hero is fun. I think that getting everyone together to play cooperatively is fun. I think online coop Gears of War is fun. Pick-up basketball games are fun.

What is fun to you may not be fun to the next person. There's no such thing as a Hardcore vs Casual game. That's just another way of saying Chocolate vs. Vanilla.

If you want to debate chip vs. chip on power go ahead. If PS3 and Xbox360 are next gen and Wii isn't it's only because you're debating the issue based on power. All of these systems launched around the same time (in the avg life cycle of consoles) and all of these systems have fun games with various appeals.

Play games that are fun. If you don't think something is fun don't play it but don't publicly whine about it, or play the role of the elitist and slam all of those who don't subscribe to your individual gaming doctrine - all that proves is that you're close minded to new experiences.

If you want to be angry about the PS3 price tag, or the Wii's broad appeal go ahead but the only one that cares is you.

You wanna be angry about Xbox360 failure rates or online market place nickel and diming - you have every right in the world.

I just want to play games that are fun. Call it what you will.

I guess I'm Funcore.

JamminJonah

cazoo

BigChiefSmokem

MetaKz

ckranger11

Do Kesubei

Spiderbait

By the way, haven't heard anything from Jack in a while. Does anyone here have him in his basement?
@blurayforever143: The Nintendo isn't a everybody's system because it's advertised that way, it's because of how it's made. although the PS3 has games that are fun for the whole family they are few compared to the more 'hardcore' games while it's the exact opposite on the Wii (so far). Also I have found out through trial and error that it's not how fun or good looking that attracts new players, it's the learning curve. I tried to get various members of my family to play a wide variety of games. My father became interested in driving games although he never really got into the more complicated ones such as PGR and Forza. My brother got into fighting games and mostly stayed with the Tekken series and would only play the less button mashing ones with me.
But when I slipped in Wii sports I managed in only a single day to get my father, mother, brother and aunt to play without even having to advertise the game to them. Also my brother held a birthday party and every last kid wanted to play (which caused problems).

I have yet to meet anyone that didn't like to play on the Wii.

Spiderbait

You just described everything the industry is finding difficult to overcome as if it were a trivial obstacle. It's people like you running Sony right now - people with a fundamental lack of understanding of what it takes to make usable, accessible mainstream consumer electronics.

King Louse

jhtrico1850

Weirdwolf

ibelli

LonelyGamer

Abishai

The whole point of "Next-Gen Gaming" was high definition. You take that away and now you have a $400 XBOX or a $500-$600 PS2. Everyone has a standard def TV to hook up their Wii to, not everyone has an HDTV to hook up thier 360s and PS3s to.

mryasir

Abishai

P.S.

All the consoles can plug into any TV.

Abishai

Also, "hardcore gamers" are more damaging to creativity in the video game industry than the Wii could ever be. "Hardcore gamers" are the reason why we have a bajillion Star Wars game with no new adventure game in sight from Lucas Arts. They're the reason why EA can shit in a CD case and slap a Madden sticker on it knowing that it will sell millions of copies while games like Psychonauts (which should be a must-have for XBOX owners) become failures in the market and frighten developers from trying out something different.

Perhaps the best thing about the Wii is how it takes even the same regurgitated bullshit but can add a twist to make it more enjoyable. Take Madden 07 for the Wii. Normally, I wouldn't have bought it since I'm sick of Madden games but I went to a friend's house and played the 2on2 and YAC modes and had a blast. Now, when people come over, that's what they want to play when the say they want to play Madden. The games are quick, easy to play, and you don't have to know about defensive packages or different types of blitzes. The next time "hardcore gamers" go to a friend's house (do they even have any outside of their "online friends?") they should at least give the 2on2 mode in madden a shot. They might find themselves actually enjoying what they're playing.

mryasir

elevenoverzero

Hellsing

My mother is in her mid 70's. She had never played a video game up until a couple months ago. She is incredibly traditional middle America. I had to play D&D in secret when I was a kid because it was a tool of the devil. Don't get me started on Ouija boards. She has denounced Harry Potter to her grandchildren because witchcraft is the devil's tomfoolery.

Up until two months ago video games where firmly in that category. She is someone to whom Jack Thompson would seem sane and sensible. (And I still love ya, Mom!)

Then I brought a Wii home for three days. The first video game she ever played in her life was Wii bowling. She kicked my ass, and had a great time!

Now she's trying to find one for herself and her friends and children/grandchildren/great grandchildren. When I talk to her she will sometimes initiate positive conversations about video games.

Anyone have a problem with that?

Multiply that times a million or ten and pretty soon J.T. is a lonely out of work lawyer, school shootings get addressed as mental health issues rather than the obvious byproduct of "murder simulators" and less money is spend trying to regulate video game content and more is spent on... anything else.

In my mind the only down side is that it keeps the Wii hard to find.

Zadaz

So if I understand you correctly, you're basically saying that if you spent a significant amount of time teaching a family how to properly appreciate a PS3, then they might be able to have as much fun with a PS3 as they do with a Wii?

That's nice and all, but I'm not convinced that after putting all that time into proper training they would actually have more fun with the PS3.

NeuronExMachina

Sony tried that, they've tried to position the PS3 as the centre of the lounge room, and failed dismally.

Why? Price.

Look at all your prepositions: HDTV, DDR, Karaoke Revolution, Guitar Hero, Eye Toy (all which need peripherals) so cost extra $$$ to get a full sense of enjoyment.

Sure, if you're willing to give me a PS3 and HDTV and DDR mat and Eye Toy, I'll introduce it as a family console, but if I have to pay thousands, you've eliminated the market your aiming for.

With the Wii, $400 gets you games, controllers, and you can plug it into any TV and have a good time.

FunkyJ

you know you get pwned by older people, is that why you complain about wii not hardcore enough? ;)

darkzlevin

vagrantwade

They should sell a bundle pack with some geritol and metamusel.

Now that was funny!

EnigmaNemesis

Because our entire society is built upon pressure and stereotypes. Humans are an insecure species, who cling onto superficial words and objects to give a self purpose.

Once it was religion that gave people purpose, now it is trend and money.

I don't see dogs and cats with identity crisis and "labeling"! Though some certain reality shows may beg to differ, I am looking at you "Pet Psychic"! :-P

EnigmaNemesis

All of this is pretty immature, and I'm glad there are others out there who don't like this "ew, the Wii has a lot of casual games. So I am going to bash it because I am a hardcore gamer that plays gamer games."

Oh well, hopefully those people will grow up and not care when someone twice their age (sorry, thrice) is having fun. For now, if anyone asks, I am just a guy. A guy who likes to play games. That's all there is to it :)

MetaKz

I doubt I could tell a grandma, "move like you're casting Fire 3 and act like you're fencing!" or "okay, lock and load your shotgun, then strafe to the right, and aim for the head"

On the other hand, "act like you're sweeping" or "act like you're throwing a football" does work. Surely it doesn't mean all casual games or all Wii games have to be mundane?

"Intuition" doesn't work the same for everyone. When I picked up a remote for the first time, it was Excitetruck. I held down the "A" button and moved the remote left to right to steer, it didn't work. My next idea was to try to play with the D-Pad. Someone had to tell me to flip the remote, hold it like it was a wheel, and move it"

These debates are so 6 months ago, but the only reason I think they happen is because of editors that insist on publishing these types of pieces even after the hype has started to die down. I don't think I'd ever see a kotaku piece on why the PS3 Is so versatile or why X-box live is such an incredible idea. The "Wii" bias here is down right surprising.

However, the point is, say if Final Fantasy did make the Wii, is it necessary and innovative to have to "throw a football" to cast Fire 3, or is it just a tacked on gimmick?

blurayforever143

Gamemaster

ecto311

reddevil

Needless to say they were absolutely floored by Wii Sports and enjoyed Wii Play and Warioware too (though it was a bit too fast-paced for them).

Now the question is, what else would keep their interest in the Wii? There's Big Brain Academy, and then there's the upcoming Wii Fit....it's crucial that Nintendo keeps this demographic interested.

reddevil

Dr.Jeff

soundbuoy

Grimspoon

blurayforever143

See? Right there everyone got bored and left the room.

schtum

More than anything though, it's a good user name for a website that just loves bashing Sony.

blurayforever143

Lucas Jensen

sweetchuck

Of course, I would NEVER want Sony to market the PS3 as a mini game box with a nice little Blu-Ray and DVD player plus media features.

However...here's a proposition

Take a PS3 into a Wii home, not a hardcore Nintendo fan Wii home, but a new convert, new gamer Wii home. Take this PS3 and set it up [hopefully on an HDTV]

Bring DDR, Karaoke Revolution, Guitar Hero, Eye Toy, and to not leave out actual PS3 games, bring Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter, and NBA2k7. Teach them how to play DDR and Guitar Hero, configure the Eyetoy for them and put in "Play", let them mess around with Motorstorm, NBA, and Virtua Fighter.

On top of that, teach them about Blu Ray, show them how to view photos, videos and how to listen to all their mp3s and CDs, guide them through the web browser, and make sure they know all their DVDs and any PSONe/PS2 games they might have or find are playable.

I'm willing to bet this "Wii family" might see how a PS3 can fit into their lives and entertainment. People don't hate change, they just take time to learn it. The iPod, the RAZR, Windows 95, all these items had a learning curve, all these items needed a demo, so what makes you think the PS3 couldn't do the same?

Maybe that is the difference, the Wii is like a toy, all you need to do is read simple instructions and start playing it. On the other hand, the PS3 is consumer electronics, it is high tech. It has to be taught, it has to be marketed, it has to be introduced to the general public, just like the cell phone, the mp3 player, and the computer.

blurayforever143

So yeah, a note to the internet: Just because you get off on the newest and latest graphics does not make you hardcore.

explodingman

People seriously sound like indie music fans who are distressed that their favourite band has "sold out".

Marlor

Abishai

But it was not in vain, since I've at last come up with the definite definition of hardcore games (since this seems to be a hotly debated subject here):

Hardcore games are games that get promoted by booth babes. The bigger their boobs and the less covering on said boobs, the mord 'core the game is.

No, thanks. No need for applause. Thank you, very kind of you. No stop, you flatter me..

little_dragon

No one can deny the success of the Wii and it's appeal outside the normal markets for video games, but the "long tail" effect does not seem to be helping anyone but Nintendo at this point. Support and interest from the 3rd parties at launch seems to have dried up or turned into "we need to develop special titles(mini-games!)" or even worse, "The Wii won't last" excuse talk which is double speak for "we're not interested".

I think we will get a pretty good gauge this year from a few titles(Guitar Hero 3, Madden. EA sports titles), comparing their sales on the Wii to PS3 and 360. I don't think this year will decide it, but if 3rd party game sales are poor after the next holiday season, it's Gamecube(or worse) all over again.

aka Bitter

People who praise mini games for casual players are just enabling lazy devs who wanna make a quick buck. It probably takes longer to make the DVD these games are pressed on than it takes to make the actual game.

Abishai

Thrillhaus

After all, I still have to finish Fallout 2, X-com 3: Apocalypse, Baldur's Gate I, Tales of the Sword Coast, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal, Diablo II: LoD as a Paladin and Barbarian, Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, Mario Kart DS, Advance Wars DS Hard mode, Heroes of Might and Magic III, Shogun: Total War, SimCity 4: Deluxe Edition, Golden Sun II (where the heck is Golden Sun III?), Wind Waker, FF: Crystal Chronicles, Shogun: Total War, Command and Conquer: The First Decade (mainly Red Alert I and Renegade), Metroid Prime: Hunters, and Puzzle Quest.

Oh.. and I musn't forget to log on to my online games. Otherwise my characters in Achaea: Dreams of Divine Lands, Imperian, and Albatross 18 might get deleted!

Clearly wasting your lifespans....

RWHC

dschinges

Kirbytheslayer: In-Kirby XMB

The Wii is giving us exactly the same games of the old generation with new controls .

You dont press right but move the wiimote to the right .Brilliant !!

Thats the "revolution " promised by Nintendo ?

It is a joke !!

Besides ,the Wii will tempt many developers to stop developing ambitious and expensive games on PC-PS3 and 360 just to develop some old-gen gimmicky games or minigame compilations for the Wii.Why spend 10 million developing Devil May Cry when you can spend 1 and sell millions with Brain Training 3 or Brain Boy 2 or Skin Care Training .....

The Wii ,as I said ,is a slap bitch in the face of this industry

Iberianpower

Boboh

i know that for the hardcores the idea of intuitive and expansive are not mutually exclusive, but for those that don't play games the way we do, they totally are. i look forward to the day i can spend hours playing metroid with my father, but if the baby steps are titles like wii sports, then so be it...i enjoy them too (and they make phenominal drinking games).

that being said, sometimes there is nothing like firing up my 360 and killing locust. my mother would never get behind that, but she is not the audience of gears. or, ultimately (at least at this point) twilight princess.

thomas c

Everybody that I know that has a Wii (5+ people), only have 1 game for their system (Wii Sports). None of them have an interest in getting any other games for their Wii.

Most of them said it was an impulse buy because it looked fun (Wii Sports) and they enjoyed it. 3 out of the 5 haven't played their wii in a month while the other 2 said they pick it up occasionally.

Why are developers even bothering with games at the moment? Is that why most games are just tacking on Wii controls? Lack of interest has to be a factor...

mystic54

strider_mt2k

Jonathan in Kichijoji

Gamemaster

GammaPoweredSuperApe

How many of you can say you finished the Star Road and unlocked the Mario-looking Koopas?

You can pretty much apply this logic to most of their top tier games. I'll admit, though, that Rare's DK Country broke the collection quest design for a while.

RWHC

I used to take being labelled hardcore as a compliment, but it's clear that the term has been hijacked by the degenerate underaged egotistical IT'S NOT HARDCORE COS IT TAKES LESS THAN TEN HOURS TO FINISH AND COST LESS THEN $10 MILLION TO MAKE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE FRIENDS LISTS WTF NO ONLINE IT MUST BE FOR BABIES garbage fuckers then I'll hang up my controller right now.

You cavemen chest beating grunt monkeys need to understand something. Gaming is not about hardcore. It's not about running over hookers and "going pro" in simulated football. It's about fun. That's all. If you have fun while you're playing a game, you are winning. If you think that playing a game for fun is a boorish concept for those who don't understand the "true gamer's lifestyle" then there is no help for you. You are the barnacle on the ass of gaming who exists for one very simple reason.

You are too stupid to die.

RJG

guess what... Nintendo is still getting money from other people who actually like it. Hardcore or not, Nintendo wants money and now they are getting it, who cares if they lose 1 hardcore fan, they got a household instead.

Black Arts Viper

I think Nintendo is being very serious about the core gamer this year as they seem to be making a huge effort to ensure that the Nintendo franchise titles the Wii will receive will most likely be far better than the ones GameCube had and offer new features too.

Take a look at the DS and you'll see that it has some of the best Nintend franchise games for the core gamer with examples being New Super Mario Brothers, Mario Kart and Zelda:Phantom Hourglass just to name a few. Nintendo has been in the video game business long enough to realize how important the core gamer is and they will not abandom them. However, focusing on the casual and non-gamer may benefit the core gamer in the long run if Wii's userbase continues to grow like this.More developer support means more games and not necessarily just for the casual and non-gamer.

Hiltz

Gamemaster

The point I'm trying to make is that