patarnog

A smart petition with over 3000 signatures already...

[www.petitiononline.com]

hyminameisderek

Kincyr

Yup Just selling to anyone Yeah if you steal your parents credit card lie about your age you have more problems (and your parents have more problems) then buying and playing manhunt 2. Mr thompson you are a troll or the highest level your messages are all hate and make no logical arguments. Its parents responsiblitty to watch what their children play. The only reason ManHunt 2 got Rated AO is political controversy Had it not been banned in the UK it would have gotten an M rating here plain an simple. Its not worse then Hostle or SAW which are just torture movies but with REAL people and it looks REAL. Sure you kill some crappy pixels in a game but watching a movie where it looks like a real person is being tortured and people say thats a good movie and there are comercials for it on TV channels that kids whatch maybe you should go after the film idustry. I know for a fact that most movie theaters let kids into R rated movies and that some of these torture movies need to be rated NC 17. So there you go Go after film.

Deadeyereborn

BodyOfTheMany

That has to be the (nonfunny) comment of the year. You must be part of the Romney Camp. :P

Billkwando

Mr. Thompson, with all due respect, why are you here? You clearly aren't paying the least bit of attention to what is being said. If you were, you'd note that the majority of us are against PARENTS letting people like you dictate their jobs. Like music and movies, not every video game is meant for every person. I'd no more let my smal children play Manhunt then I would let them see Hostel II.

Despite this I do not see you going after the parent who buy GTA for their 12 year old, completely ignoring the rating system in place to inform them of it's content (that I can promise is explained to them by store employees), and then bitch when it's more then little Johnny should be seeing.

Instead you defent these idiots and go after companies like Take-Two. My question is why are you so focused on video games? Why not go after Sony's music devision for lisencing rappers who fill their song with words like "bitch," "hoes," and the likes. These have been proven to have a damaging effect on young girls and the way young me treat girls.

Or how about going after the movie studios for making movies like Hostel and Saw? By your logic, simply because Disney is around and producing children's movies, then all movies made should child friendly.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Thompson, it is the parent's responciblity to censor their own children's media intake, not yours. By doing what youa re doing you are not only violating the First Amendment rights of every adult gamers, you and charging headlong down the slippery slope of censorship. First you ban adult themed video games from being made for adults, then what? Are you going to go after romance novels because a child might find mommies collection?

Finally, while doubt you have rea any of this or will respond, I at least feel better for having said it.

EmeraldDragon

NameYourCharacter

June 20, 2007

Lydia B. Parnes
Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. Via Fax to 202-326-3799

Re: Current Fraudulent and Deceptive Trade Practices by Take-Two Interactive

Dear Director Parnes:

Yesterday the UK banned the sale of Take-Two's upcoming violent and sexual-contented video game Manhunt 2 even to adults. On the same day, it was announced that the ESRB here in the States slapped Manhunt 2 with an official rating of "AO," for Adults Only.

However, Take-Two is presently "pre-selling" Manhunt 2 to anyone of any age, as you can see at the below link and attached order page. Note that Take-Two asks if the purchaser is 17 years of age, which of course is not any sort of age verification.

But even that aside, here is Take-Two selling the game to anyone who says he is 17, when in fact the AO rating means it cannot be sold to anyone unless they are 18. This is a clear and brazen circumvention of the ESRB rating system by which Take-Two is bound.

It was precisely this type of nonsense that got Take-Two into trouble with Congress and the FTC in selling as a Mature game a game that was pulled and re-rated AO because of the clandestine embedding by Take-Two of porn in the game back in 2005.

Please bust Take-Two again. The proof of its fraud is right there this minute at its own site:
https://order.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/shipping-form?unique=8fd64&catalog=rockstarwarehouse&et=4679046c&basket=b%3D5C3c42bfd100bc414678fd59405763c42bfd10793e5420d9b91a21b96954163c1%26l%3D%26s%3DZ8d3kzJmL40xf6ALHv3HUWYb2Lc-

Best, Jack Thompson

jackthompson

Take-Two is right now selling this game to anyone of any age at its corporate web site. Not smart.
I and others are on that little indiscretion right now.

My goal awhile back became the financial gutting of Take-Two. We're well on our way. Hooah!

John B. Thompson, Attorney at Law
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, Florida 33146

June 19, 2007

The Honorable Bill McCollum
Attorney General of the State of Florida
The Capitol
Tallahassee, Florida Via Fax to 850-410-1630

Re: Criminal Threats by Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., Makers of Manhunt 2
Video Game

Dear Attorney General McCollum:

As you know, I wrote you in early May alerting you both to the scheduled July 10 commercial release of an incredibly violent video game, Manhunt 2, which will be available for play not only on the Xbox and Playstation video game platforms but also on the Nintendo Wii platform, which will allow the participant to act out the acts of killing with his own physique by holding motion capture devices. This is why even video game enthusiasts are suggesting this is in fact what it is: "a murder simulator."

I deeply appreciate your public statement, Attorney General, expressing your concern about the availability of this game, which will of course be sold to children, as studies by the Federal Trade Commission indicate. You have attempted to alert parents to this looming difficulty that will be upon us in July. I am fully aware that you acted in this regard because of my letter to you. I appreciate your comments to the Fox News Channel in this regard as well.

A huge development in all of this has occurred today in the United Kingdom. The official video game rating board there has determined Manhunt 2 so dangerous and so harmful that it has been banned altogether, even for sale to adults!

Take-Two, the maker of this murder simulator, is however pre-selling this game to anyone of any age at its corporate web site. In this "game," the player removes the testicles of his opponents, chops their heads off with hatchets, sticks syringes into their eyeballs, suffocates, stalks, and uses everyday items to kill. These are called "environmental kills."

What I should now like to tell you is appalling, and I believe criminal prosecution by the State of Florida must take place because of it:

I got a letter from a Boca Raton partner at the law firm of Blank Rome. Blank Rome is both lobbyist and law firm for Take-Two. Blank Rome, on behalf of Take-Two, the makers of Manhunt 2, has now threatened me with legal mayhem in retaliation for my letter to both of you, and they threaten me that I must not communicate further with the State or with any other governmental entity at any level in this fashion. This threat is, in my opinion, criminal extortion under Florida law (FSA 836.05) and a federal criminal civil rights violation prohibited by 18 USC 241. I believe it is also violative of Florida's RICO law.

As you both know, "petitioning the government for a redress of grievances" enjoys the highest rung of Constitutional protection of the First Amendment of our Bill of Rights.
It's bad enough that Take-Two and this law firm with offices in Florida is facilitating the distribution of this game to children. Now they are seeking to intimidate, criminally, me for alerting two of the highest government officials in this State of this harmful commercial activity. Both my right and my need to have done so is underscored, Mr. McCollum, by the act you took regarding Manhunt 2.

This is how the Mafia works: It engages in harmful activity and then seeks to intimidate people to protect that underlying activity. It is outrageous that lawyers licensed by the State of Florida would participate in such intimidation.

Mr. Attorney General, I should like to request a meeting with you or members of your staff to see what can be done to bring Take-Two to justice in light of that company's use of Florida lawyers to threaten me for what is clear First Amendment-protected speech.

Regards, Jack Thompson

Copy: Strauss Zelnick, Chairman, Take-Two via Blank Rome
The Florida Bar
Orlando Salinas, The Fox News Channel

jackthompson

William Killer Shatner

Teekan

Please don't sell out Take-two. Think about it... The only people you are really doing this for is the 17 year olds. Mature rating is 17+ and Adults Only is 18+, it's only one year difference! Lets play some AO style manhunt 2 already!!

profits will go up Take Two
People will be happy!
War will end!

Teekan

cybereality

you know if all of you guys realized the Wii would essentially be a console for colorful minigame collections BEFORE buying it now they wouldn't have to start making violent games for it would they?

sheep! drones! the lotta you!

interstate78

On topic, couldn't really care less being British, I will obtain a copy somehow... SOMEHOW!!!

MrPaulJames

[www.nintendo.com]

*Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only).

n8n8baby

Oh, and sign me up for the camp that says "I'll probably buy this regardless of rating" just to see if Rockstar can make graphic violence interesting as anything more than shock value. I say go AO, just to say "this is our content, love it our leave it." I've seen tons of sick, twisted stuff just on videos, not rated NC17 due to violence. Seems like a double standard, and I'd like to see Rockstar stand up for their rights and say "fine, we'll play it your way" and up the violence just to tweak some of these sensationalist raters off.

Phenix

Nah, then they'll turn around and try to sue R* or Take2 for making a game thats unappropriate for their 10 year old grandchild yet clearly has a rating for 17+

Man, If ignorance was a liscence to sue we'd all be millionares.

asphix20

@LowerHouseMember: Didn't get your hands on a copy of San Andreas did you? For all those in possesion of the original PS2 and PC releases, it's rated Adults Only. EB Games and GameStop even had Adults Only stickers for them.

On a different note, I sense an increase in online retail sales on the horizon...

Papa Midnight

panda

As the quote goes "Controversy Creates Cash"

I didn't like the first Man Hunt; however, if MH2 carries an AO rating I will be first in line to purchase it, especially if there will be a P.C. version. I am thinking of the mods right now as I type this.

jblankenship005

Wii having a game with an Ao rating.....call it kiddy now bitches. :)

Import2001

*He has an American wii.

Dr.Chocobo

I hope they appeal the ESRB's decision rather then just give up and modify the game so that an M rating is appropriate. Sure, I'll still buy the game... I loved the first Manhunt.

But if the AO rating sticks, Manhunt 2 will be my first AO rated game, which would be awesome.

Anyways, I hope everything goes according to plan, seeing how Manhunt 2 has a release date of July 10, which is what... 3 weeks from now.

Myst3r1o

This is outrageous!

AdmiralRupert

NoBullet

Yeah, and, you're all going to buy this where, exactly? AO means major retailers don't want a part of it.

eakolb

If the control system sets it apart, then that's not good at all for the future of the system.

One of the earliest games in the hardware generation to use a really new approach to control gets punished this way. I find it unfortunate.

InsidiousTuna

NotSoCool

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

"*Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only)."
---------------------------

Could this mean Manhunt 2 may potentially be canned for the Wii?

Azentium

Ah, ok, thank you for clarifying. I've got no complaints with your philosophy. If it suits you, than I support your decision to live that way.

I, personally, play violent games, and watch violent movies. I'm a fairly passive person. These things are an escape for me. They're a way to vent frustration (as in killing zombies in dead rising) or simply enjoy an imaginary scenario which happens to be violent (as in most horror movies).

You're right - Wal Mart is just doing as they see fit, and that's their choice. My issue here is that based on the footage and screenshots of Manhunt 2 that I've seen, there are games just as violent (or more so) that have received the M rating. Rockstar has a bad public image right now, fueled largely by JT and those who follow in his shoes. I highly doubt that the ESRB didn't take that public pressure into account when rating the game. In other words, this game received special treatment based on the fact that Rockstar was the developer. That's not exactly an unbiased ratings system as far as I'm concerned. That special treatment is a combination of parents railing against a product that hasn't been released, and the ESRB yielding to that pressure.

What The Geek

Draconis

The SNES Mortal Kombat had gray "blood." I think it was supposed to look more like sweat.

As in you stick a harpoon through someone's chest and it makes them really nervous.

chinesedentist

I played the first and wasn't exactly thrilled. The concept intrigued me more I suppose.

I probably won't reserve the game, but personally, I wanna check it out, bad.

AndrewG009

Sparkamus

The question is, what does this mean for the Wii and other games with mature content? Are violent, realistic titles simply going to be held to a different standard on Nintendo's console?

I for one don't want to return to the days of "green blood" in Mortal Kombat on any console. =(

aka Bitter

I agree with you on that whole Wal-Mart thingy, except that video games are commonly behind glass, and the cover of the game doesn't look more frightening than a B rated horror movie, so the only way to really look at the details on the back is by asking someone to take it out to look at it, which hopefully I'd doubt a worker would take it out for an 8 year old.

But then again, you never know. At least have them keep it under the counter for the Electronics counter. I'm not a fan of this game or anything, but a game is a game, as a movie is a movie.

Mesren_Makai

[www.thepetitionsite.com]

duerra

That...would be the greatest commercial of the year. Family fun to the MAX!

Um, but to my point, I'd barely even heard the name of Manhunt 1, except when an evil lawyer from Florida started ranting about it. And the only thing that intrigued me about 2 is the interactive action. So, I actually hope this shows up at my local EB/Gamestop just to check it out, and the AO rating only makes it sweeter (Huzzah the power of 19 years!) But I digress...

Ironically, I'll be trading in my...erm...my brother's Viva Pinata for it :)

Mesren_Makai

I know bad parents exist, but you'll note that Wal-Mart doesn't carry AO games because of the large amount of GOOD parents that exist.

Also, yes, I believe bad content in any medium is bad for a person. Sure, it can be entertaining, just as LSD can be entertaining. But it's still bad for you, IMO.

I think the rating system is there to let people know exactly how extreme a game is. I, for example, choose not to buy M rated games or R rated movies, despite being 22. It's a matter of taking care of myself. There are people, I'm sure, who would buy a game that warrants an M rating, but not an AO rating. The listed age makes no difference; it's all about personal preference, and letting the people know what's in the game. I think it's doing its job.

And yes, I've watched scary movies (PG-13, anyway), and while they're entertaining, I don't feel that they're good.

PogiJones

Zanch

I'm really not trying to make a broader political point here, but what's wrong with Wal-Mart carrying things that are only intended for adults?

Should all R or Unrated movies be pulled from the shelf? The store near my house carries alcohol, should they end this? Hell, Wal-Mart carded me seven years ago when I needed to buy spray paint for a project. They should just stop carrying it all together.

And what about the actual hunting equipment that could be used to murder? Should they be completely eliminated from the aisles?

It's a game with a scary cover. It has exactly the amount of power you give it.

If you tell children it is evil and proof of the decline of civilization, it will probably just pique your curiousity. If you tell them it's simply a gimmicky game coasting on shock value and average/repetitive game mechanics, they'll probably be much less interested.

chinesedentist

n8n8baby

Have you played the game? Have you ever watched a scary movie? Do you feel the same about the movie Hostel? How about The Hills Have Eyes?

I'm not attacking, nor do I intend to - I just wanna know more about how you've formed your opinions.

Oh and as far as blaming parents is concerned, I've seen parents pick up M rated games for 8 y/o children without batting an eye because they didn't know / nor did they want to know what was in them. Not all parents are like that, but make no mistake - negligent parents do exist, and they do buy things for their children that they shouldn't.

What The Geek

I think we need to support game releases with un-censored content. I hope that this game releases as-is and it broadens the themes that future games can potentially explore.

Tanod

Therefore, blame neither the ESRB nor Wal-Mart, and don't blame parents either for that matter. In fact, I think pointing fingers is really stupid. But if you're going to blame anyone, blame R* for making a game that deserves an AO rating.

PogiJones

That is true. In fact, there's a simple fact here that applies to all forms of media, be it music, movies, video games, or television:

The more scandelous the product, the more people want to watch it.

The writers of South Park, LL Cool J, Rockstar, and the creaters of Hostel will all vouch for that fact.

What The Geek

Draconis

torsoboy

What this game has going for it is infamy, plain and simple. They are attacking Manhunt 2 mostly sight unseen to make up for the fact that their busted time machines prevent them from stopping the original Manhunt in the first place.

Everything I've seen actually makes this Manhunt look tamer than the last one.

Oh, irony. I should bathe in you.

chinesedentist

REUYL

And yes, I might buy it just out of principle. If the ratings actually exceed 6.0 on average that is.

My principles only go so far.

chinesedentist

ianovich

davemd

It has the rockstar name attached.

What The Geek

JCtheMC

y2julio

ThePeacemaker02

i'm curious as to what this game has that made it AO

phrequency

Brian Crecente

modifiedbears

Lot Krotan

Dark_Cheetah

=)

Psychotext

sadkermit - soon to be banned for standing up to the ummm nazi.

I never said they changed their rating based on public pressure - I think they issued the rating in the first place based on public pressure. I'm sure they've been getting letters for months from JT's sheepish followers, not to mention that religious group that's against the Wii all together simply because it allows access to the big bad internet. Couple that with the public attention applied to video game violence as of late, and you get an ESRB that errs on the side of caution (and by "caution" I mean "appease the masses").

What The Geek

poduski

TrojanMan88

What The Geek

You might want to re-read their statement:

"It should be noted that ESRB has already assigned a rating for the Wii, PS2 and PSP versions of Manhunt 2"

So, no, the ESRB did not change their rating based upon their silly little letter.

LostToys

Lot Krotan

Seriously. The first few weeks of playing Gears of War online were a dream, once you actually managed to get into the servers.

Toasticus

More attractive? Yes, more attainable? No. They'll have a bitch of a time getting any retailers to carry the game with the unjustified AO rating attached.

What The Geek

cactushooker

Draconis

jive238

Thankfully, game is sure to suck anyway.

SpaceWhale

cactushooker

What disgusts me even further is that the only people reading this article, and any article defending video games against the onslaught of uninformed protestors are gamers. If you're as bothered by this issue as I am, go get a parent, a non gaming friend, a senator, or a congressman, and make them read this side of the story too. Inform the uninformed. It's the only way that the first ammendment will survive the war on video games.

What The Geek

reginald

dilpickies

Therefore, if this comes out as AO, I can only imagine that five years from now Rockstar will be releasing games rated AOOO.

Personally, I can't wait!

mewol

You also have Mortal Kombat on the Wii...where you do what? Suggestive moves with your Wiimote that result in onscreen dismemberment and eviceration. That shows up on shelves with an MA rating and nary a whimper of outcry.

Methinks R* is getting the shaft.

That said, if Nintendo backs out on this title and decides to kill it altogether for the Wii, I will sell it and purchase a 360.

I love my Nintendo kiddie games, but I'll be damned if I support a console/game company that endorses censorship. Let me as an adult gamer decide what is right or wrong for my family and I.

ToastyBuffoon

Charron

Personally I could care less, as I said, the original Manhunt was a horrible horrible game, I would never buy a Manhunt game.

Kyle81

LittleBigGuy

Or you could, you know, read the previews to get a pretty good idea of the content that was deemed unacceptable. Like, oh, I don't know, pulling off someones testicles with pliers (by making a clamping motion with the wiimote and nunchuk no less), or how about sawing up someone's crotch with a saw, and sawing back and forth with the wiimote to do so? Or carrying someone's head on your belt. These are documented. Rockstar has made it a point of emphasizing the violence in the game. Controversy has been their marketing for it. This is in opposition to, say, Bully, where a concerted effort was made to point out that violence was not the focus. What other Rockstar game didn't have an excessively bombastic ad campaign prior to release?

Tell me how this could get anything but an Adults Only rating?

aegies

Lord_The_Night_Knight

Risky+Safety

Action Bastard

I bet retailers would cave faster than a fat kid on a diet at Panchos.

Risky+Safety

Avinash_Tyagi

Nobody cares about executing people with the x or square button. I want to slash some throats with my Wiimote!

xerus`

This really worries me. Granted, the Wii brings us one step closer to acting out the physical acts of violence in the games, but the bottom line is: it's still a game. Most gamers know it's just a game, and whether you control it with your thumbs, or control it with your arms, it's still a far cry from actually punching, kicking, biting, maming, decapitating, defecating upon, or incinerating human beings.

I think I need to start a Campaign for Forcing Political Activists to Stop Using Change to Scare the Public into Supporting Them.

minister.of.rhetoric

Daiden

Kyle81

jip100

JCtheMC

Kyle81

Great, if it stays rated AO I won't be able to rent it...

cametall

raison

Wouldn't this be the first AO game to be released in the US?

I think the idea is that they get released every so often, but it's unlikely you'll ever see them on a store shelf or a Blockbuster.

edgey

Kamakazie

Kyle81

It wount make the stores due to this rating, but if it ever ends up on a digital download ah-la xbox live or ps3network, (or I guess steam :P ) Expect a killing *rimshot

huginn

JCtheMC

RedRedSuit

slappymcgee

Mezodon

[eat-sleep-game.com]

aegies

I think the rating makes sense from a 'You're cutting this guys head off with your wii-mote' kind of thing.

Gil-Galad

Back to buying games with my Dad.

whoiseric

RedRedSuit

Wait what? ...Adults Only, you say?

xerus`

But we can't even count that as a game - there was no gameplay!
If Seanbaby reviewed the game, odds are pretty good that the game was not at all close to 'good.' Or 'a game.'

NewtypeS3

SuperMaxZero

balls187

Do you want your kids watching hardcore porn?

Kyle81

XGamerX

JCtheMC

Still I agree that with the content of the game, it probably deserves an AO Rating.

But, I think that the AO rating is misleading and is unfortunately associated with XXX rated films.

balls187

reginald

Wikipedia's list of AO-rated games. It's generally reserved for seeing "teh boobiez" especially in the case of GTA San Andreas and the Hot Coffee debacle. Killing, profanity, carjacking, that's fine for an M rating, but give the game the ability to display some pixelated jubblies and it's AO.

I hate the conservatives in this country.

baberg

Stratovarius

BodyOfTheMany

NewtypeS3

I might have to buy a few copies, to help sales move along. Just hand 'em out as gifts. Father's Day, July 4th, Valentine's Day, toss 'em off of floats at Mardi Gras.. that kinda thing.

HylianTom

So this means I'll be able to buy it in Wal-Mart next to the unrated version of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, then?

Starsmore

[en.wikipedia.org]
Wikipedia says it's mostly just naughty computer games and San Andreas. :)

edgey

Take two, don't punk out on this. Accept the AO and make this shit hardcore.

Risky+Safety

I'm leaning towards a purchase too even if it just sits on a shelf in the packaging.

baberg

DBX00

Gremory

EmeraldDragon

techdude50

Kyle81

by hook or by crook.

Billkwando

baberg

TheBrain

TheIrishNinja

Essonse

manabu

Obviously the actual numbers are just smoke and mirrors for what essentially amounts to the ESRB's power to censor any game they see fit. Just the kind of bullshit that people in prior Kotaku comment threads said would "never happen," as this whole movement is just about preventing kids from purchasing certain games and couldn't have anything at all to do with granting the ESRB the power to decide what gets released and what doesn't.

OneFreeMan

On an artistic note, I'd love them to say "Fine, no one under 17 SHOULD be playing this game anyway!" and accept their rating. But not being in brick and mortar stores are going to kill the sales of this game.

knulpm

NewtypeS3

EmeraldDragon

Cloaca

edgey

=O

Still, at least USers will be able to buy it, unlike us UKers!

IanC

Cereal Killer

Godz

If this actually releases at AO I'll buy it, I've always wanted one of those.

LowerHouseMember