I agree, female gamers probably do have diverse desires in games. However, by and large, I believe there are themes that broadly interest females, just as there are themes that broadly interest males. I think the feminine themes are not even necessarily incompatible with masculine themes, and merely need to be added as a complement.

I generally believe feminine themes to be a focus on socialization, noncombatant support skills and abilities (such as crafting, healing, etc) and base building/modifications.

What do girls like? Well, they liked The Sims quite a bit. What are the dominant themes in The Sims? Building a home and socializing to gain status and interesting friends. Are these themes incompatible with men? No, absolutely not. I loved The Sims too! But an enhanced focus on these themes in MMO's and other current games would surely do amazing things to interest females as well as males.

Imagine if WoW had configurable player housing? Or a social system whereby spending downtime in social activities yielded worthwhile benefits? (better-quality rest state from socializing?) I think a lot of females would embrace these changes, and males too!

Coherent

@ Coherent: I think your wish is a bit unrealistic. It is unrealistic to assume that just because women have their gender in common, that they will all want similar content in MMOs. Just as you cannot possibly ask men gamers to "present a unified front" with regard to what they want in MMOs, by virtue of the fact that they are all male, I honestly don't think you can ask the same of women.

In general, yeah, there are a few things that women may have insight into (such as how other players treat a woman in an MMO if they find out she is female), with regard to MMOGs, that men don't necessarily have, but women gamers have just as diverse wants out of games as men do.

Brinstar

Now, more importantly: Forums are not a silly idea, for those who wish to participate in them. That isn't really my cup of tea, but people are entitled to discuss whatever whereever on the internet they wish. I think what you've failed to realize with your comment about breast size and whatever else is that if women are going to be gaming with you, the conversation may change a little. The guys I play with still talk about man stuff (penises included), but if something somewhat girly comes up they don't freak out either.

Maybe I'm reading too far into it (and please, excuse me if I am, no sarcasm here), but you seem to convey the idea that you don't want women coming on the scene and changing the conversation or the mood. And, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but just as another guy would change the mood slighly if he joined the game (or the forum/conversation), a woman joining the scene will do the same.

cortana86

You're also quite arrogant, self-centered, and bigoted, judging by your comments. How would you like it if I said in half-jest that men were smarter, cooler, and in general better looking than women? Would you take it in stride, or be offended?

crazyspoonhead

trina

joelface

laesperanzapaz

I will say I appreciate the maelstrom of female incense that this article laid upon the blogosphere. Because of it I found a bunch of websites run by or featuring the supposedly non-existant female gamer.

Kudos to you Brian... you and your penis.

NinjaSistah

I get the impression that some people need to levy judgement on whether the new site is worthwhile or not. Of course it is. This isn't a competition, and they don't need our validations or assurances that things aren't as bad as they seem on this site. It just sounds like another place for a sub-group within the gaming community to gather.

The key to remember is that large all-inclusive sites have their purpose too, which is to get all the sub-groups debating. How else is each and every side going to learn how their rants, humor and opinions will be interpreted by others with a different point of view?

I look forward to seeing some posts linked here so we can all have that very same chance to learn about true diversity within the gaming culture.

devilmoon

But seriously (or not) you ladies sure do get violent over totally meaningless things. I have a little secret for all of you: nerds LOOOOVE girls. They totally flip the lid when they here of a girl playing a video game they like. I know few girls play on Xbox Live and whenever we join a game boys clamor to be on their team. The thing is that many girls then go about putting down nerds in really cruel ways and are then totally shocked when someone makes a small, innocuous joke about girl gamers.

Further more guns, fighting, violence, and the semi-homoeroticism of buff action heroes are very much made (and enjoyed) by males. And guess what favorite media of ours regularly features all that and more? Sure there are many games that don't (and many girls who ether actively or passively enjoy traditionally male imagery ) and it would be nice if there where more good games that tried to target other genres but games will always be heavily populated by geeky boys who have minor social problems when dealing with the fairer sex. You just can't make a big deal about it and laugh it off.

Forums are a silly idea, smart gamer girls should stick with regular sites and show how girls just want to talk about games and not their plight or their breast size. Their will all ways be bad apples but by being positive those who hold the notion that when a girl picks up a controller their favorite character comes one day closer to death will ether A.) embrace his female compatriots or B.) shut up.

And my previous comment was a poor attempt to make light of chauvinist pigs. Also I think my comment is slightly illogical and I apologize to all that read it.

IheartPOKEMON

MountainDont

That said, and this may be odd, but I am a gamer first and a penis second. All I hope for is the same - be gamers first - and female second. To me, especially in gaming where you are normally anonymous, gender is completely irrelevant. That's not to say I disapprove of having sites which provide female perspectives - I'm all for that.

However, "often rabidly misogynistic sentiments" - ridiculous hyperbole. It's hard to take you seriously as a partner in any sort of discussion when you're willing to throw around inflammatory and unsubstantiated statements like that.

The Commissar

To call anyone or anything misogynistic is a significant insult nowadays; to even think that it may have been implied provokes a response. If that was not intended, however, then we can at least be happy that no-one here tried to fly that banner with pride, as would have happened in many such places not long ago. At least when Kotaku thought they were being called unwelcoming to women, they rose in high offense.

I don't think anyone here has an issue with anyone, women gamers or any other group, having their own place. We just hope that they can also feel welcome here, as well.

imaria

I'm not back tracking at all. I think what Crecente is saying in his comment above, and I would agree as well, is that 'tone' is in the ear of the reader, and as clear as I have tried to be, that is something no blog (or comment) writer ever has any control over. I'm sorry if that sounds condescending to you, but that is not my intention.

I stand by what I wrote in my post, but there is nothing there that suggests that I feel there is a need for women gamers to seek asylum from evil Kotaku to a place where no one will ever hurt them. I am simply happy for more options for women gamers, and glad to have a chance to spread the word.

Here's what I said about the editorial direction here at Kotaku: "Whatever editorial direction things end up taking at Kotaku, at least now there is an increased opportunity for women gamers in the form of The Iris Network." Try reading that sentence again with the idea that my use of 'whatever' means that I don't actually know what that direction is, rather than as some kind of questioning judgment of that direction, as you suggest.

GuildedLily

My motivation is entirely sexist though! I desire mightily that the female-male ratio in MMO's approaches 50/50 so that I can date one of them. It isn't easy finding a gamer-compatible mate in the wide world, and how much better it would be if there were at least one space, virtual or otherwise, where gamer-males and gamer-females might meet and socialize with mutual interest.

So it's all good, I'm happy to see girl gamers getting together. Now all they need to do is find some way of communicating their entertainment desires to MMO content creators.

Coherent

If you're going to attack someone, please at least have the courtesy to be willing to stand up for your words. Back-tracking does no-one any good.

imaria

While I have no problem with there being a gamming site for women, I didn't really agree with most of what they wrote. I didn't find the last post cryptic and I dont find most people on kotaku to be misogynists, sure there are some jerks (in the comments) but that happens everywhere. Its entirely possible for a gamming site to have males and females and not alienate anyone, the moderators set the tone.

ion1626

@CallmeMongoose: Jade Reporting is brought to you by the some of the same people who are involved with TIN. We do love us some Beyond Good & Evil.

100littledolls

A huge proportion of gaming forums are set up as neutral gender communities, but its the members that define the mood, maturity and future members of a site.

RivaOni

cortana86

I disagree, however, that it is necessary for woman to have separate forums for discussion within the gaming world. Maybe that's just a personal preference, but I don't need protection from the anonymous teenagers any more than you do. They will always be there, and more often than not they will be annoying, but that doesn't mean I should run off to my hidden oasis of women supporters. All of my best friends are guys, and that's partially why I enjoy video games so much.

For me, it isn't that women should have "a place" (their own place) in the gaming community, it's simply that they be accepted in whichever context they wish to play in. A prime example would be how tired I am of hearing, "You must be old and fat!" when teenage boys playing Halo 2 online discover that I am female.

cortana86

You're assuming that women can't be assholes. Unless you have discovered a way to troll more effectively using only your erect phallus, a female-oriented gaming community is just as vulnerable to trolling as any other. However, if it is moderated and there are rules to enforce maturity (which is not, by the way, a female-only concept), then yeah, I guess it will be a safe place for women to have deeply meaningful discussions about how boys have cooties or whatever they talk about when we're not around. I just don't get why they can't create a gender-neutral forum with similar rules -- segregation will only enforce the idea that men and women need to be treated differently online.

Hannah

@crecente: To clarify myself even further, I have not said that Kotaku = misogynistic, rather that some of the sentiments expressed here are misogynistic. This may seem like a subtle difference, but if I can accomplish one thing here today in building a dialogue between Kotaku and the women game bloggers who are out there (but perhaps not 'more out there') it is this: it isn't about you.

I'm all for being able to reach and understanding. If you feel misunderstood by the feminist bloggers you mention realize that they too feel misunderstood by you. The fact is that there is no real dialogue as yet, and until someone puts in a real effort it may just stay that way.

GuildedLily

I'm also glad there is a feminist-oriented gaming forum now. I'm sure GuildedLily could articulate this much better than me, but I think that women's advocacy has really taken a hit from the marginalization of anyone calling her or himself a feminist because of the created perception that all feminists are, well, you know the stereotypes. Anything that creates a broader awareness of feminism, especially in communities (pardon my generalization here) like gaming where ignorance is quite rampant, is a very good thing.

ianovich

That said, given what I know about her through mutual stuff, it should be well-done, though I likely won't agree with a lot of it.

If only Flaregamer had an update schedule, that site had potential (though I'm biased, I've known the creator of the site who I've been flaming since 1998- cue KOF98 theme music...) That site is definitely female but not feminist.

arstal

cortana86

Brian Crecente

cortana86

Archetype

Brinstar

Brinstar

Brian Crecente

What sorta annoyed me was that so many feminist gaming sites seemed to deliberately misinterpret my original post to meet their needs.
It is, I believe, painfully obvious that I am aware there are female bloggers out there. And if a site were to quote anything but my fanciful and deliberately hyperbolic first sentence, their readers would know that.

What I was saying was that I wish they were more vocal as a group. Not because I think there isn't balance in existing sites, but because I believe that as a whole there are very few "known" female bloggers out there.

The ones I cited in my original post seem to be the most well known.

And quite honestly, I wrote that post as a sort of sneaky way to say I was looking to hire a female writer, without having to just come out and say it.

And now this comment is so long I've completely lost the thread of my point.

:)

Brian Crecente

@ RivaOni: Fair enough.

However, Kotaku's reporting isn't completely accurate. The creation of the IRIS Network wasn't in direct response to Crecente's blogging. From what I understand, it has been in the works for a while now. This just seemed to be the opportune moment for the creator to launch.

So, if you got the impression that "womens gaming forum, all women gather here to protect yourselves from mindless idiots" just from the Kotaku post, I can't blame you.

RivaOni: "Fair enough, have your speciality websites and forums, but at the same time, make sure that you are trying to make a difference and show that women gamers aren't willing to just roll over, have abuse thrown at them and then move elsewhere."

From reading the "About" page, I believe that is the goal. :-)

I participate in forums aimed at women gamers (but include all), and I participate in forums for all gamers. I am not segregating myself. Sometimes, however, some groups feel the need for a smaller space to discuss their issues of concern with like-minded people.

Brinstar

CallmeMongoose

Verrrry good point, I have a friend who plays with PMS, but it's through her that I was introduced to the majority of my friend's list (guys)... that and 1up.

Hmmm this site has a "Jade Reporting" section as well... Jade's certainly a swell character to emulate with a site targeted towards the ladies, I suppose.

This article is exhausting to me, the topic of gal gamers, as WELL as that of the word "feminist"... my God, that's a semester long course's worth of discussion...

CallmeMongoose

However, being in a minority does give female gamers a unique perspective that can add interest to their writing. I hope that, in the future, there will be more and more women who can speak and write intelligently about games.

Vespyr

I also don't have a problem with the sheer ammount of different gaming communities, in fact I favour smaller communities as when you have huge ammounts of people on message boards, discussions get lost easily, look at IGN, Eurogamer, Gamespot and 1up for examples of that.

My point was that the topic sounded like it was shouting out "Womens gaming forum, all women gather here to protect yourselves from mindless idiots", which in fairness is a good thing, but its not the only one out there that has that approach, so surely if Kotaku is going to mention one forum/site it should bring attention to other options.

My main issue is that if female gamers segregate themselves from message boards with lots of males on, then theres no way that the issue of "OMG YOURA GURL!!!1111!!!!!eleven" is ever going to go away, the "war on racism" has never been dealt with in a quite manner, so why should women have to hide themselves away to talk about games? They shouldn't but by setting up websites such as this, they're removing themselves from being able to make a difference.

Fair enough, have your speciality websites and forums, but at the same time, make sure that you are trying to make a difference and show that women gamers aren't willing to just roll over, have abuse thrown at them and then move elsewhere.

RivaOni

Ffenix

Fujoshi

Arugala

GayGamer, on the other hand, doesn't make straights (like me!) feel unwelcome. They do address important issues from time to time, but it's easy to tell that they don't take themselves seriously, and they prefer to make fun of the stereotypes than overreact or rally against them. So... whereas you get the GayGamer guys talking about their utterly fabulous imaginary castle, it's very rare to find a "girl gamer" who's willing to joke about pwning people from the kitchen while barefoot and pregnant.

Hannah

I agree with you - I don't feel the need to join a gender-specific community like the one mentioned. But I wouldn't say "it just doesn't matter," because it clearly does to some people. It just doesn't matter to you or me.

And BTW, you just did announce your gender.

Dervish

Please allow me to quote my actual post, since I'm sure many won't read what was originally said:

"His post in no way considers the often rabidly misogynistic sentiments directed toward women gamers (nor the sometimes harsher responses regularly present in the comments section) that have been the standard for Kotaku for some time."

You can see by the above that I am not calling you "rabidly misogynistic" but instead that I am using those words to describe "sentiments". I haven't checked, but I am not even sure if the sentiments I have in mind were even written by you. I'm sure as editor that you take anything said about Kotaku personally, but in this case it wasn't actually about you. I did say you were cryptic, but is that such a bad thing?

The prominent display of my blog logo above the post might lead some readers to think that The Iris Network is an extension of my blog, but I am simply a member of the forum there and can't take credit for its creation. I wrote the post to help spread the word about this new online resource, but you have done much more than I ever could have to get the word out in the online gaming community. Thanks!

GuildedLily

I don't know about many of you but sometimes it's good to find a small community where you find like-minded people, thus why there are so many sites on the web and not just one giant smooshed together site.

NintendoGal

I have never felt the need to announce my gender. I've never felt the need to join gender specific groups. It just doesn't matter.

Fujoshi

Brinstar

IheartPOKEMON

PS. Just because someone visits a site like that doesn't mean they're going to avoid interact with male gamers altogether. You can be integrated and still interact with a certain subgroup.

iwanttobeasleep

Besides, my fiance is a member on the GamesTM boards along with a bunch of female gamers who don't get any agro from the members over there. The only time she's recieved stick for being female is when shes beaten some twattish adolescent Americans who couldn't take her beating them at Black Arrow or PGR2 back when she played on Live so they booted her out of the game.

All thats really needed is for said adolescent teens to realise that theres more than just their pimply camping Halo/ Counter-Strike friends who play games. Hell I used to recieve stick on Forza for being British!

RivaOni

Besides. We're smarter, prettier, and cooler, and we come with better peripherals. :)

Asipatra

Same here fella.Females FTW.

Hater3000

"Wohho finally maybe i could get a girl there..score"

Wow i didnt know you people were so deep,lol.

Hater3000

That's actually exactly how I feel about sites like PS3fanboy as my affection towards that overpriced monolith continues to grow.

And seriously, congrats and good luck to the women at Iris. May their fight against the DOMZ free us all.

Psudonym

Erec

I would love to give a nice long speech about how the word "feminism" has a thousand definitions and is abused by both sides. How about you look at it as "from a female perspective"? Does that make it feel less threatening?

I'm going to go will Shaun on this on. Sometimes it is nice when you have always been in the minority to have a space where you are in the majority.

How about a comparison? Say you love your Wii. You don't even own a PS3 or a 360. But how would you feel if every site out there was geared towards the PS3 and the 360. Sure there occassionally reported on Wii news but only rarely. And everytime you made a comment about the Wii, half a dozen others either insulted you or commented on how it was so odd and rare to see a Wii gamer.

Does that make it make sense do you?

SixSider

Exactly. I'm all for separatism if it gives people a place to post stuff that will be respectfully considered instead of dismissed outright or mocked. Not that I'm claiming that this consistently happens here, but it does happen.

And "feminist writers," ehhhh...I'm skeptical of that because of what it implies, but feminism is a loaded buzzword. Not all feminists are man-hating feminazis.

Dervish

Feminist gaming writers? No thanks.

Just write about games and the gaming world if that's your interest and forget about seperating men and women.

KeyonSumner

"I don't care what anyone says, these sort of equal rights groups don't create equality they encourage separatism."

I 100% agree with you.

dead_red_eyes

This whole thing is kind of a double edged sword. On one hand hard-core gamers shouldn't forget that there are women gamers and may be a different demographic than they are, without wanting Barbie Horse Racing.

On the other hand, there shouldn't be any special treatment for women gamers and the feminist crap does get old.

xkc20d

3inst3in

shaunomacx

GayGamer is aside from the obvious reporting on videogaming, features about gay characters in gaming, features that while generally may interest some regular posters on Kotaku do not reflect the style of reporting on the USS Kotaku under Captain Crecente. This doesnt mean that Kotaku is uncomfortable reporting such features but this site is geared towards all ages, GayGamer caters towards those individuals in society who are of an age to be aware of the differences in sexuality and the responsibilities of reporting news that may offend a young teenager or child.

Getting back to the topic at hand, if women gamers want a place to chat about videogames without the shit that comes with them usually posting on sites (oh fuck off yoo n00b, youre a chick, go make me some dinner woman - or other relevant insult casually tossed out) then I say all power to them, you dont have to go there, same with GayGamer. If you find they are segregating then thats okay, theyre providing a place where they wont be privvy to crude comments like 'fag' or 'queer' two words that actually dont make sense in the English Dictionary in the context implied.

Im not claiming you have aimed insults at either site but Im using them as an example of how sometimes segregation works in the society we live in, especially a digital world where people are able to post hurtful comments in relative anonymity.

Shaun

shaunomacx

Pfffth, lilies aren't perfect. They lack gold.

cringer8

Maybe it's one of those metaweb-2.0 things I've heard about.

possiblymalignant

Larry Forney

*sad face* you beat me to my reference...

Psudonym

Must be that time of the month...

loopinvariant

NitrousO

Barob -- agreed.

animagnum

Psudonym

/rant

omgjuicyjuice

And in their spare time, they'll also be fighting against the Alpha Section and the Domz.

(I'm surprised no one ELSE made that joke by this time...)

Volante3192

Cell9song

Cell9song

Exactly...same thing goes in the racial department...and all aspects of life. If you want to be treated equal then act equal and stop segregating yourselves.

Shinamano

Barob

"I am woman hear me roar" is just the same as saying "Now that's how a man gets the job done"

I'm all for womens rights believe me, but women toting all these feministic qualities and sayings and making males feel bad about having a penis & being male is just rediculous. It's just the same as guys who love Ford commercials, and are all about "manly stuff" like steak, big trucks, and football.

dead_red_eyes

shaunomacx

I'm surprised you didn't censor the word "penis" in your comment.

As for the blog, don't we already have Gay Gamer for the feminine perspective?

I kid, I kid.

cringer8

Giovanni

shaunomacx

NitrousO

animagnum

shaunomacx