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Denver, 12:48 AM
Tue Dec 1
53 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/21/09
You just lost a sale. Hmpf. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
MAKE IT FREE
Sincerely,
Fan #superstreetfighteriv
10/21/09
Dude, you need to check this out:
[www.destructoid.com] #superstreetfighteriv
10/21/09
I got three syllables for you son:
Sar
cas
...mmm
The last syllable is more delicious than the rest. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
Besides, Ken isn't all powerful, and I mop the floor in Championship Mode using Dan. The game for the most part is pretty much balanced outside of the extremes on the tier list. Vega and the rest of E Tier need some hard buffs while Sagat needs some toning down, along with minute character changes across the board so they get rid of the 7-3 matchups.
I just picked up the game in late July, hadn't played it before then. If I can get a 60% win ratio with the worst character in the game I'm sure you could manage something with a slightly more competent character.
And for the record, BlazBlue isn't that well balanced, you just likely haven't reached a level where it matters. Bang and Tager are woefully underpowered, slow or vulnerable (Despite being the most awesomest guys on the planet) while characters like V-13 and Arakune can mop the floor or go toe-to-toe with the entire roster. It's why they felt they needed to make Continuum Shift. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Aside from Dan and Sagat, most characters are pretty close to the "ideal" balance with most matchups being 4/6, 5/5, 6/4 meaning that the better player will normally win regardless of character.
Of course, there are still matchups like Zangief/Seth that are 2/8 (ie, if two players of equal ability play, Seth will win 8 times out of 10), but in general it is incredibly balanced and even the lower characters have few truly bad matchups. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Blazblue balanced. HAHAHAHAH. I am a fan of Arc's fighting games (Rumble Fish even!) and I can tell you BB is shit for the most part. If you want a balanced fighting game where there 95% of matchups are 5:5 and 6:4 at worst, go play GGAC. BB is terrible. #superstreetfighteriv
10/21/09
@Ryodestined: sorry to tell you dude, but BlazBlue is really unbalanced. Who do you use? I'll play sometime if you want to. #superstreetfighteriv
10/21/09
-long throw break window (~8 frames?, fastest poke is 5 frames. you can basically poke out of any throw making it useless outside of carl's clap trap. there is also throw break buffering which makes throws even more useless [except against people who mash recovery and terrible scrubs, who you really don't even need to throw to win]... Read More
-slow pokes (going back to the 4-5 frame poke thing. you can basically jump out of every mix-up or pressure string since pokes are so slow. also making you be able to block 90% of attacks without fd in the air without tension means even scrubs can jump out of any pressure string, unlike in gg you would have a risk/reward of losing tension and eating meaty anti airs if you tried to jump out of shit
-3 way roll (another way to help scrubs who don't know how to block oki wakeup games by removing it completely)
-zoning (top tier characters are too good at zoning and pressure except carl[who will fucking kill you off a 5a], whereas most of the cast can only do shit once they up close. either make pure zoning characters or pure rushdown. characters with both will obviously unbalance game
-There are lots more character specific shit that I don't feel like getting into. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Guile could use a new move. He has 2 specials, SB and FK. DJ is a similar character and he has 4 specials. Guile has the least amount of specials in the game.
But people, just go to shoryuken.com and read/comment. This is the definitive source for SF, along with eventhubs. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
R.I.P. mmcafe and HerV. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
LOL no. Ken isn't in the same tier as ryu because ryu can go into his ultra from everything. J.mp, anti air lp srk, ex fireball, ex tatsu, fadc srk. For someone who is supposed to use eventhubs and srk, I'm surprised you would say something that scrubby. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
The problem with Seth is that you don't have many "safe" approaches because of his crazy priority. So most people who aren't used to defensive tactics struggle.
Me? I've found a handy trick to beating him on any difficulty with Akuma. Just telespam and if you end up behind him: sweep, throw or use a BnB combo if you're feeling lucky.
Them again, I think he's harder on lower difficulties because in the difficulty spike. Hell, you can get to him on easiest without ever blocking. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
So I find the boss tedious and developed a cheap tactic to beat him quickly, but against human opponents, he's actually a pretty fun matchup for me.
Then again, I don't play online, so human opponents using Seth tend to be when my friends and I turn on "random". #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Anyone who needs help beating Seth probably does not have Akuma unlocked. :) #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Lariat!
Or just telespam with Dhalsim and throw.
10/20/09
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10/20/09
I'm pretty bad, but I can take on anyone who just "flowcharts". #superstreetfighteriv
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10/20/09
In the Capcom realm, Gill is the only boss that I officially avoid because he's so cheap. Come on, Resurrection??? #superstreetfighteriv
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/20/09
Make him more challenging, not more irritating. If the boss cheaps me to death, I'm not having fun. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Arcade mode is the last thing anyone should be playing in SSF4. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
the worse thing about seth is not that he is cheap (which he is) its that he is lame as a boss. the guy borrows moves from everybody. plus his annoying "2nd round steroid tune-up" just turns into a match of u picking at him with moves that offset his attacks. rather than really going in at him like you would if you fought a real boss like M.Bison.
they should redo his whole moveset and make him more unique. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Seth is like some kind of wtf alien thing that comes from nowhere. I have no emotions for him except by god on easy I will abuse the game mechanics and hit him with the same move over and over. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
but i hear ya. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
wow.... im appalled that Killian is even toying with the idea of charging 60 bucks plus tax. i payed 60 bucks to beta test SF4 for Capcom. you have to be kidding me.
this game should be:
- 30 bucks for early adopters who can trade in SF4 for SSF4 with some type of trade in promotion
-60 bucks for first time buyers
this model makes all people happy.
Seth needs to look out for the loyal customers who shelld out for the game day one... esp those who got the collectors edition, like myself. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
Would you still have that opinion if SSFIV hadn't been announced? I doubt it. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
But you're right, Capcom can't consider releasing this at full price. They should do what Sega did with VF4's upgrade release on PS2, and release it at greatest hit's pricing. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
my thoughts exactly #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
My biggest (only, outside of price, I suppose) complaint is that the playerbase is already relatively thin (at least on the PS3). Creating a new game, rather than something downloadable that could be made a switch in the matchmaking settings, is pretty aggravating.
I only have ~50 hours into the game; if I had a couple or a few hundred, like some, I would probably not care and would be chomping at the bit for a revision. But I feel I have more characters to get much better with still under the current ruleset/engine.
At this point it feels like the multiplayer experience I thought I was getting is going to be artificially cut short by Capcom's release of a new 'version'. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
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10/20/09
lemme do a mock interpretation of SF4.
Capcom: hey guys Sf4 coming out soon
Fans: FUCK YES. WHERE DO I Pre-Order?
Capcom: yes guys this game will be the bridge between what is good about SF2 and all the other greats.
Fans: FAP FAP FAP
Capcom: (release day) Here's the game! ENJOY!
Fans: WOO HOO!!!! ok where is ken? (lol)
Capcom: Hey guys by the way, if you have any issues, hit up the board with your thoughts!
Fans: See man, thats why capcom is the shizzle, they listen.
Capcom: Hey guys we have some great news! NEW SSF4 coming in 2010!
Fans:?!@#$%&$!
Capcom: but wait guys, chill out! we listened to all of your ideas and decided to improve the game's overall experience!
Fans: but, isnt that what you guys were doing when you were making the game?
Capcom:but cmon guys! youre getting a more balanced game! new fighters! perhaps new supers!
Fans: im saying though, this couldn't be a patch?
Capcom: this is too big of a update, im afraid.
Fans: damn that sucks.... will it be cheap at least?
Capcom: no confirmation of price just yet, but hey i have some goos news!
Fans: YES? YES? (e-boner)
Capcom: were Making the Seth Boss cheaper than ever!
Fans: ............................ #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
If you plan not to get SSFIV immediately, then yes, assuming there are no means for people with one version to play with people who own another, you will be left behind. Whether this is another incentive to buy the game at release or whether it "just sucks" is your decision.
Regarding your comment on time spent on the game, and how you feel you have more to learn from this version - bear in mind as soon as SSFIV comes out continuing to learn how to play the original is kind of moot - since every character will go through changes in the revision. So, choosing to forego upgrading so you can continue to learn the original game is essentially pointless as everything you've learned is subject to change when you switch to SSFIV.
I can relate to how you feel about the multiplayer experience being cut short from the release of SSFIV though. But remember, it's still a ways off. Perhaps when March '10 rolls around you might feel differently about it. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
As I said in a different post, I personally think $40 is about the right about to charge for SSFIV.
At the end of the day though, it's up to the consumer to look at the new content and determine whether it's worth buying for whatever the final price of the game is. That's up to each individual to decide, there is no universal opinion. Some people who are huge SF fans will buy it even if it cost $100+. Others won't buy it even for $20.
As far as I'm concerned, Capcom aren't trying to rip anyone off here. They're just trying to make the game better, and in doing so have come up with enough new content to deem a re-release of the game worthy. If you disagree, don't buy it. If you do agree, then I'll see you in SSFIV. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
In order for multiplayer (all that the game is worth after playing all chars once) to be playable, I have to 'upgrade'.
I will be left behind if not 'upgrading' to SSIV based on playerbase size.
I will be left behind in learning the 'upgraded' version of the game if I don't upgrade immediately.
If I were Capcom, I would charge $60, too... they're forcing people to, if they don't want any of those negative effects. I wouldn't charge $60 because there's that much additional/new content in the upgraded version of the game. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
I'd argue that most people out there have played the game enough to justify paying whatever they paid for it in the first place. In which case, a full priced revision is totally justified.
Remember people pay $60 for a new game and might only play it for 6-10 hours - no complaints. Then when a sequel comes out they'll happily pay another $60 for that.
It seems to me SSFIV is only pissing people off because consumers are essentially paying for a lot of the same content twice. If they cut all the original content out of SSFIV and just released the new content would that make people happy? Obviously not. So I don't really understand why people are complaining as much as they are. Especially since the pricing isn't even final yet. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
sounds like they are still not sure dude. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
-sniff sniff- #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Seth"Streeto-do Fighta-do"Killian
SF is his baby. sure he didnt create SF, but he eats sleeps and breaths SF. anything news worthy that flows through to the US usually come from him.
so for now lets call capcom out for the "ambiguity" in their plans.
when they assure us im sure we will all chill out. or maybe not :p #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
then came street fighter III. in the arcades, the first 2 installments were only months apart, but on consoles.. the collection of the first 2 installments and the third were only a year apart.. and were full price.
and then back in the super nintendo days, capcom released updates every year until super street fighter II dropped.
not only is this "business as usual," i really dont find it any worse than yearly maddens or call of dutys. i understand what youre saying, but videogames are a business first... and entertainment second (for capcom).
i mean, they know so many people have dropped off of the game because thats how casual players do, so there needs to be an update to hold their interest... the fact that this update happens to have 8 characters, new moves and stages, better online, and whatever else may be planned is actually impressive compared to most full fledged fighting game sequels. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
What bothers me about your last post though is this: "this quick revision just reeks of foul play." Reason being, if you've played a lot of SFIV as you say you have, surely you'd be able to comprehend just how much work actually goes into a 'revision' like SSFIV. Sure they're 'only' adding 8(~) new characters, and a few more moves for existing characters, but the sheer amount of work that this entails in terms of testing and balancing is huge. Like, far bigger than any DLC that's ever been realeased for any game - and that shit costs money.
All of us as consumers would love to pay less than the standard $60 for this game, that goes without saying. But the honchos at Capcom might decide when Spring rolls around that they *need* to charge full price for this game to cover the costs of the work that went into it. Should that be the case, I'd personally be happy to pay full price for it, because knowing what I know, I wouldn't feel like I'm being ripped off paying that much.
However, at face value, when you see a list of the changes and just see:
8 new characters (~)
new stages
few new special moves/ultras etc
I can definitely see why people are reacting the way are, because again, at face value, it looks like you're being short-changed. But if you look at the bigger picture, I think even $60 is a fair price for what you're getting, whether you bought the first game or not.
As Shouryuuken said, Capcom is a business. It doesn't matter how much they care (or don't care) about their fans. They're not going to make a loss on a game just to keep the fans happy. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Seriously, people. I'm damn tired of seeing eighty percent of you flare up everytime some developer announces they think they put enough effort into a game to have the AUDACITY to charge us money for it.
This is the same bullshit every one of you was spewing venom at Valve for when Left 4 Dead 2 was announced.
At the end of the day, each and every one of us makes the decision of where to put our hard earned cash, game-wise. No matter what price point SSFIV hits at, people will buy it immediately, people won't buy it until it's dropped to a price they deem appropriate, and people won't buy it at all.
I, for one, wholeheartedly applaud Capcom. Adding chars/moves/stages, changing things around to (hopefully!) make the game more balanced and polished than it already was, etc, etc (we've all heard this list before) is a great step to take, especially for a fighting game. IT NEEDS TO BE DONE MORE OFTEN.
And quite unbashedly, the incessant whining from the majority of you has convinced me I SHOULD purchase it day one, if only to show my support of what I believe will be a job well done. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
The increment release schedule was designed because in the 90s Capcom had no other way to get new data to players. The concept of DLC didn't exist. But to make each release of a game worth it, they would include new colors, new characters, etc.
However, 10 years later companies have moved from multiple increments of games to providing new content to gamers via DLC. The increment model should have been rendered irrelevant with the DLC model, but Capcom is still doing both! What is the point of getting DLC if the content means nothing in such a short time?
And let's be honest. The programming base for SF4 has already been figured out. Adding a new character model involves only two things. Modeling said character with an animation skeleton, and determining the move set for that skeleton. The days of drawing and animating a large set of pixels (like in SFIII and Alpha) is long behind us. I would be surprised if creating a new character took more than 1 month. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
While they could just do what you say and add the models, hitboxes and movesets and leave it at that, if they released the game in that state it would be absolutely horrible. The reality is, Capcom spends the majority of their development time not on those things, but instead on testing. They'll go back and revise characters dozens of times to try and balance things as best they can. SFIV is without a doubt one of the best balanced fighting games out there, with the majority of the cast being tournament-viable.
Also, the fact that they're adding 8(~) characters to an already existing cast of 25 means those original 25 need to be re-tweaked so that they're balanced well with the new ones.
It's for this reason that the game could well retail for the full $60, and it's also the reason why this simply can not be DLC. There's simply too many changes to the core mechanics of the game for them to be implemented in a DLC format.
Personally I think it's worth at least $40, and I think the idea of a $40 patch would piss people off even more than a $40 re-release of the game evidently has.
@RockingMonk: You're most welcome =)
10/20/09
But addressing your point directly, think of the price in terms of ratios. $60 for the original SF4 paid for all of the marketing costs, the lengthy development process, including art direction and character design, play testing for 25 characters, music composition, level design, etc. Adding an additional 8 characters definitely involves tweaking everything to iron out the bugs, but a large portion of the work is already done. In my opinion, there is no justification for an increment title costing as much as the original because development costs should have gone down.
What I personally would have liked to have seen is two patches and a possible store release:
1) The first patch would have cost $25 or so. This patch would have added all the new content to the current game, and it would have allowed players to select and use the new characters.
2) The second patch would have been free and made a mandatory download for all players. This patch would let owners of the original game see the new characters but would not allow you to control them. The purpose of this patch would be to keep the online community unified while still providing new content.
3) For those users who didn't want to download the large patches, there could be an official disk release. This would be SF4 with the patches already applied (i.e. SSF4), and maybe a couple of additional extras. This disk could cost $30-$40 to cover distribution costs.
But seriously, in this age of digital content, hard drives in consoles, and DLC, an increment title should not exist unless it's an official sequel. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Also, forget for a second that you owned the first game (assuming you do) - would it be wrong for an increment title to cost as much as the original, given that you get *all* of the content that was in the original, plus all this new stuff? It's not like when SSFIV comes out SFIV will suddenly become free, the work they put into it still deserves to be paid for, regardless of whether you or anyone paid for it once already. This just goes back to what I was saying regarding everyone having to decide for themselves if it's worth buying.
Also, given the idea's you proposed, that free patch would probably amount to at least 2GB+, and someone has to pay the bill for all that bandwidth. Guess who? Just another reason Capcom aren't doing this the DLC way.
Anyway, I'm still pretty adamant a $25+ patch would be recieved even worse than a potentially budget retail release. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Street Fighter 4 cost around 7,500 yen in Japan. At the current conversion rate, that's $82 US dollars. If the new content was available as DLC (which, you're right - it won't be) there is a limit to how much Capcom can charge. As a new disk release, it probably means I'm going to end up spending another $60-70 to get the game, and having already spent about $15 on DLC for the first title, that means I'll have ended up spending around $160 for what essentially amounts to one game with a lot of tweaking. That seems a bit unreasonable if you ask me.
The funny thing about this situation is that if SSF4 was DLC, Capcom is guaranteed money from the sale. As it stands now, a bunch of people are going to get the new game used to save money. Buying the game used means Capcom gets nothing from the sale, and sort of defeats the purpose making it a separate disk in the first place. :) #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Regarding your last point, yeah you're right for the most part, and I'm sure Capcom knows that too. Given that they're "choosing" to forego potential profits by releasing it on disc leads me to believe that they simply don't have the choice in the first place. What I mean is, if they *could* release it as DLC, and if doing it that way would make them more money, then that's probably what they'd be doing. The fact that they're not is almost proof that there's too much content here for a DLC release in the first place.
However, I don't think used sales are going to eat into their profit that much. I'm fairly sure the majority of the people that will be buying this game will be holding on to it for quite some time. So if you're (not you specifically, speaking metaphorically) peeved at the price and are waiting to pick up a used copy, you could be in for quite a long wait. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
This is the biggest kicker for me. We all must be a bunch of masochists because the Capcom as of late likes to abuse us to no end, yet we still come back, begging for more. :O) #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
You take the good with the bad, and at the end of the day you've still got an amazing developer =). #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
btw i hearted you, looking forward to agreeing/disagreeing with you in the future. :) #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Obviously this brings us back to how each individual has their own opinion of value, regardless I'm quietly confident.
I just think it's a shame that anyone would/could miss out on this game because they've already deemed it too expensive, when the fact is most people really have no idea just how much work will have gone into SSFIV when it eventually ships.
Oh and, I noticed you'd hearted me when I glanced at my profile earlier (I don't have all that many followers so new ones stand out ;D), so naturally I hearted you too. =) #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
@DaemonGildas: I just hope Gouken gets a Denjin Hadoken. #superstreetfighteriv
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10/20/09
I've found that Yami is one of the easier bosses in Capcom games. I really only had trouble against him with Gold Lightan. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
I'm not that great at fighting games, so if I really suck at a character and I don't really have much time right now, so I need to play through on an easy setting and mash my way through.
So you'd think Seth would be a pushover on very easy? Nope, pretty much the same, maybe slightly easier than the medium setting. Very easy should be "if you lose, you aren't holding the controller", not only slightly easier.
So I can't burn through and unlock the characters. And I'm just decent, what if someone is starting out and they flat out SUCK? They won't have a chance.
_ I just hope they have all characters unlocked in Super Street Fighter IV. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
Not every game needs to be about the story, new gameplay mechanics/gimmicks or graphics (look at Megaman 9). Competition and skill also need some place, and I'm glad Capcom still believes in this (from Dead Rising to RE5 their games have stayed pretty hard this gen).
And by the way, the characters will be unlocked from the beginning in this. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
The biggest problem with SFIV is that there's no actual training mode to speak of. What they have now doesn't constitute one. They need a tutorial with a breakdown of all the game's nuances and "advanced" strategies that aren't readily apparent to new or casual players.
I'd like to note that the PC version's downloadable instruction book doesn't even have anything explaining Focus Attacks. That's messed up.
They made SFIV very accessible gameplay-wise, then they kept all the instructions from the players like a closely guarded secret instead of pointing them in the right direction.
Cross-ups, reversals, tech windows, explanation of combo/cancel windows, tick-throws, properties and uses of invincibility in moves, chip damage... NONE of this information is anywhere but in-depth online guides, guides made by fan communities.
It's a tragic case of "the dumb" on Capcom's part. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09
10/20/09
If you don't know some of this stuff, you will rage time and time again when you wonder why the hell your Ultra didn't work or how that guy keeps hitting you, even when you were obviously blocking.
Some of the things I mentioned were definitely advanced and unnecessary, but an understanding of cross-ups and reversals are absolutely required to play online to not get your butt handed to you by the same move over and over (probably killing your enjoyment of the game).
The information should be there. Currently, even if a player wanted to know why the hell they keep getting destroyed by Seth or other players, they're completely SOL without knowing where to find a guide on the internet. #superstreetfighteriv
10/20/09