It's never made sense to me why someone pays for something they could have tried for free and then calls it a complete waste. Logic states if you tried it for free and were compelled to buy it then something in there must have been good otherwise if you bought it outright and then realized on the first time playing it that you hated it then you're an idiot.
I think what would help the indie games is if microsoft filtered what comes out. Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of peer review for which games would make it to be sold? That is obviously not the case with all the utter trash you see on there. At first I would look at what there was and try a few things out, now since there's so much garbage to sift through i never look there at all. It's too bad.
@dathascome: The peer review system is for making sure that the content ratings that the developer gave their game are accurate. It has never had anything to do with the quality of the game.
@dathascome: It's coming with the dashboard update. All that's happened so far is Microsoft changed the channel's displayed name earlier this week. There's a great site called xblcg.info (since relaunched as xboxindies.com) which allows people to vote on games and browse through them more easily, but how many people are going to bother going to a website let alone know it exists?
Being able to download trials for all indie games is great, but there's just too much output for the average user to sift through. XBLCG current has 357 games since launching in November, not even a year ago. While it'd help the image projected on the Dashboard if Microsoft filtered out the crap, I think it would prohibit a lot of experimentation and stifle interest in development to get rejections based on a subjective review process. The current way is fine; it just needs a quick and easy rating system.
@dathascome: Remember you will be able to rate anything on XBLM with the new updates... the best part is that you have to buy it to rate it; no Metacritic shenanigans. For better or for worse, there will also be Top rated sort options on all XBLM so it'll work a lot like the app store EXCEPT for for the major fact you get demos on XBL.
I'd rather buy a couple of indie games with the spare points you get when purchasing an arcade game, than wasting them on a theme, or some crap like that...
I'm fearful that, despite being an incredible idea and a great initiative by Microsoft, the damage may already have been done due to the original pricing restrictions. Thoughts?
@cookingzombies: well, on the bright side, I think a lot of people never even noticed "Community Games" amongst all of the other windows floating around on the dashboard. If they rename it and move it to a more visible spot, it may have a chance yet =)
@cookingzombies: The pricing was never the big complaint from people, it was how hard it was to find and ratings.
I don't think it's too late plus they've made directed changes in key areas that reduces or even eliminates the barriers of entry.
I'd just wish to see people stop seeing verbally selling it like it's shit and then turning around and touting games on the app store on iTune where truly heinous shit exists. Perhaps because XBL sells to gamers and iTunes sells to a larger audience, MS needs a way to sell indie games to a larger audience outside of XBL; clearly it's too good to let die at the hands of jaded pretense.
@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): I think we agree that the under-promotion and bad positioning was a big issue, but I can tell you that when I saw the pricing of most games I stopped bothering to check back.
Of course, one has to wonder just how low the game creators are ready to sell their games for. Guess we'll soon find out...
A lot of people have criticized MS's Community Games Program, but I think those critics are missing the overall point of the XNA Program to begin with.
This service is not going to make you money and the large % of these games are going to be crap, but even those crappy games play a significant role in doing what the XNA was designed to do which is a place for aspiring game developers, and or hobbyists a platform to develop on that is super cheap but will also allow the developer to get both positive and negative feedback.
With that said I think MS's XNA Program will begin to shop a lot of positive results 5-10 years down the line as younger developers enter the industry. I can almost guarantee you will hear a lot of developers down the road credit the crappy games they made for XNA as tremendously helping them get to where they are today. Just be patient, you will see results.
Opening development to Japan is what XBLCG needed sorely from the start. Generally speaking, the better known PC indie titles come out of Japan. Too many Western developers have just used it just looking for a quick buck and/or to showcase their ability to slap something together in XNA.
The Indie Games channel does host some excellent games, but it really needs something along the lines of a Cave Story to sell it to consumers same how Braid sort of legitimized XBLA in the minds of many. Stuff like Gamerbots is fairly impressive by Community Games standards, but it's too barren and pricey (even at just 400 points) to compete with the more professional XBLA stuff.
You've heard of this XNA developed unreleased mech fighter in progress but nothing of the Kenta Cho shooters, Cave Story, Warning Forever, Ultimate Knight Windom, Rose and Camelia, Elona, and numerous other titles? Are you serious?
I'm hardly saying Western indie development is poor but rather the bulk of Western developers using XNA aren't working towards a more professional product. I wouldn't expect Japanese indie developers to flood Indie Games with crap like A Moron's Challenge, Barf and Beer, and so forth.
@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): It's my personal expectation. You could argue that Japan would only supplant crap like Barf and Beer with something like Hyper Burning Love Pantsu Sniffer EX 120%, but I doubt it, at least to the extent XNA sees it flooded with crap now. If my opinion is wrong nine months from now, you're more than welcome to throw this in my face. :p
Oh, look at that. Squirreltroll3000 is playing the $ card. Once again the trolls just look at the company name instead of if they are trying to make something good or not.
This is nice, I guess, but the real culprits here are the XBLA games. What's the point, for example, in paying 400 points for an old genesis game when you could easily download the rom? And what's with the all the overpriced DLC? I'd buy a lot more if they lowered prices in general. The majority of stuff for sale on XBL is a rip-off.
@Squirrelbot3000: You are super smart,let no one tell you different. Figuring out that it was iTunes they're copying(because, yeah, Apple invented changing a dollar for something) is dead clever.
@crim: This is why I can't stand the "X DID IT FIRST" comments on blogs like this. Of course someone will be the first to do something. That doesn't mean everyone afterwards is forbidden from ever doing it again.
Imagine if only Sony was allowed to make a system that used discs, or if the Genesis was the only console with downloadable games.
@BubbleF**kingBuddy: You are correct. Only General Motors should be allowed to build a car with a passenger airbag. They were the first to do it and Honda and Toyota should respect that.
LBP pulls this off better. game/level creation is never going to be flawless on any system just because of the technical side of things. thats why there's game studios game make games, not your friend down the street. the easiest level creator i've ever used is got to be the Unreal Editor. its just so clear and crisp and simple considering all the things you can do in a FPS. LBP is up there, maybe if you could get some mouse and keyboard controls working, it'd be even better. The hardest thing for me about LBP is that you're ALWAYS creating your level with the physics and game mechanics turned on. there's a lot of work arounds you have to do just to set up switches and machines to work correctly. Even when you "pause" the world, it wont help if you need to get a block or something inside a different part of the game. you cant float things through walls at all. its more like a level editor game you play rather than an actual level editor.
The coding is much more deeper than at first glance. You just have to spend extra time on it. People have been making complex codes to replicate RTS game mechanics, transporting, hidden button combos. Stuff like that which isnt obvious when you first see the stuff you can work with.
This game is a great example. Its a Shmup/DDR/GH combination
07/24/09
To bad there's no arrow pointing down :(
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Being able to download trials for all indie games is great, but there's just too much output for the average user to sift through. XBLCG current has 357 games since launching in November, not even a year ago. While it'd help the image projected on the Dashboard if Microsoft filtered out the crap, I think it would prohibit a lot of experimentation and stifle interest in development to get rejections based on a subjective review process. The current way is fine; it just needs a quick and easy rating system.
07/24/09
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07/24/09
word.
I'd rather buy a couple of indie games with the spare points you get when purchasing an arcade game, than wasting them on a theme, or some crap like that...
07/24/09
07/24/09
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07/24/09
I don't think it's too late plus they've made directed changes in key areas that reduces or even eliminates the barriers of entry.
I'd just wish to see people stop seeing verbally selling it like it's shit and then turning around and touting games on the app store on iTune where truly heinous shit exists. Perhaps because XBL sells to gamers and iTunes sells to a larger audience, MS needs a way to sell indie games to a larger audience outside of XBL; clearly it's too good to let die at the hands of jaded pretense.
07/24/09
Of course, one has to wonder just how low the game creators are ready to sell their games for. Guess we'll soon find out...
07/24/09
This service is not going to make you money and the large % of these games are going to be crap, but even those crappy games play a significant role in doing what the XNA was designed to do which is a place for aspiring game developers, and or hobbyists a platform to develop on that is super cheap but will also allow the developer to get both positive and negative feedback.
With that said I think MS's XNA Program will begin to shop a lot of positive results 5-10 years down the line as younger developers enter the industry. I can almost guarantee you will hear a lot of developers down the road credit the crappy games they made for XNA as tremendously helping them get to where they are today. Just be patient, you will see results.
07/24/09
The Indie Games channel does host some excellent games, but it really needs something along the lines of a Cave Story to sell it to consumers same how Braid sort of legitimized XBLA in the minds of many. Stuff like Gamerbots is fairly impressive by Community Games standards, but it's too barren and pricey (even at just 400 points) to compete with the more professional XBLA stuff.
07/24/09
>> the better known PC indie titles come out of Japan
Yeah, the better known stuff. Like.... um.... hm. The only one I've ever heard of is that crappy looking robot game you've posted a video of.
Oh wait, Parappa the Rapper was an indie game. Yeah that's totally recent.
07/24/09
You've heard of this XNA developed unreleased mech fighter in progress but nothing of the Kenta Cho shooters, Cave Story, Warning Forever, Ultimate Knight Windom, Rose and Camelia, Elona, and numerous other titles? Are you serious?
I'm hardly saying Western indie development is poor but rather the bulk of Western developers using XNA aren't working towards a more professional product. I wouldn't expect Japanese indie developers to flood Indie Games with crap like A Moron's Challenge, Barf and Beer, and so forth.
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Imagine if only Sony was allowed to make a system that used discs, or if the Genesis was the only console with downloadable games.
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I might even buy a few now.
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07/11/09
I'd love to see LBP on the PC!
07/11/09
This game is a great example. Its a Shmup/DDR/GH combination