Too little too late. The entire RTCW and W:ET veteran fanbase have moved on. The blame lies on the leaked "beta" that was a warning to many and then the final, sorry product. Hopefully id can make up for it with a true multiplayer sequel, because that's what 3/4 of the Wolf fanbase was banking on Wolfstein to be, RTCW 2, a sequel, 2.0 but they didn't even get a 1.5. #wolfenstein
@VastShadowz41: Well this doesn't add anything to the multiplayer so it's not too little, it's nothing at all. It just fixes game bugs. I only play it for the single player but yes, from what I've heard the online is just plain bad and people have moved on already. #wolfenstein
@Alvarez: Yeah, I was even going to wait for the price to drop just to play it for the SP but now I've moved on even from that. Got Borderlands now to entertain me. :D #wolfenstein
What a fuckin joke this is..
wow ty so much for making sure your console version is tip top then release the pos afterbirth of what the pc version was then do your customers the favor of gettin'r patched up a month later so we can actually finish this pile of steaming shit...Doosh Bags.
I'm actually surprised that I found myself liking the demo on PS3. The controls were solid and the graphics were pretty good. Overall it reminded me of the original F.E.A.R. set in WW2, which is not a bad thing by any means.
The only thing I didn't like were the horrendous cutscenes. I felt like I was watching something from a PS1 game and they just learned how to use 3d programs.
Appearantly almost everyone around here thinks germany is trying to forget their past. Let me just say that every school kid in germany learns about the nazi history in depth, almost every former concentration camp is now turned into a memorial site/museum and that there is a holocaust memorial in berlin 3 times the size of a soccer field.
national socialism is a very sensitive topic here, it's not easy to carry around the thought that your ancestors killed 6 million jews and terrorised all of europe and it's especially not easy to see when others don't take the topic seriously, for example in a zombie/black magic/big guns action shooter. you don't want someone to make a fun action game centered around your grandmothers painful death due to uncureable stomach cancer, do you?
also, would you say that the people who have a problem with the sambo/watermelon thing in scribblenauts are trying to forget about the discrimination of black people? believe me, the first to protest against public display of nazi symbolism in germany are jews and not the all ignorant germans who try to pretend that the holocaust never happened.
@Ippolit: also, would you say that the people who have a problem with the sambo/watermelon thing in scribblenauts are trying to forget about the discrimination of black people? believe me, the first to protest against public display of nazi symbolism in germany are jews and not the all ignorant germans who try to pretend that the holocaust never happened.
There is a huge difference though. It's not illegal to associate sambo and watermelons (even though it is in horribly bad taste). Freedom of speech ensures that all viewpoints, even the ones that are (or appear to be) wrong, receive an opportunity to be heard.
On the other hand, banning symbols of the Nazi regime only serve to preserve the strength of those symbols, and fear associated with them. I hate to go total geek on everybody here (because I can't think of a stronger example, except for Nazi symbolism), but when JK Rowling addresses the fact that the wizarding world refuses to mention Voldemort's name, it continues to give him power through fear. The same logic applies to Nazi symbolism. Items and articles that should be remembered in their context in history, are instead continually feared. It's as if the US had permanently banned display of the Union Jack. I think that we can all agree that such an action would have had rather adverse effects on the development of US/UK relations.
@illiniphase4: But as you say in your response "...should be remembered in their context in history,..." and how does this context apply to this game? I would argue that the government not allowing the symbol to be taken lightly and put into a silly action game keeps it from being taken out of context.
One day I was in Borders reading the preface to Mein Kampf. The preface was written by either a translator or historian, and they put into context the definition of freedom of speech, and why this freedom is more blurred someplace like Germany. It put the whole thing into perspective for me, and I'll be damned if I can't remember what it is. Generally breaking it down to: this event happened there. All of it. And recently, in a historical sense. I encourage anyone who is against this kind of censorship to go out and read it.
Despite all the people flipping out about Germany's well-known ban on nazi-related imagery in this thread, the real issue is that somebody in Activision's marketing (or maybe localization) screwed up and let this slip by.
@Methusalah: The real issue are the double standards in Germany. You can perfectly fine use the swastika in Movies or TV and it does not have to be historically correct you can make a comedy about Hitler and WW2 and use the swastika in every frame and nobody has a problem with it, but once it`s in a game they all go batshit insane because all of a sudden it is illegal so show and see it.
@[DFX] Deimos: Free speech has nothing to do with symbols associated with a group that advocated hate. Go hang a swastika outside your house (I assume US) and see how "Free" your speech is.
@Paul_Is_Drunk: Free speech should be more absolute than that, though. Yelling fire when there isn't one is more of a threat, and presents a clear and present danger. Having a video game with a swastika, or even academically questioning aspects of the holocaust, shouldn't be punished though. That's ridiculous.
Disclaimer: I think holocaust deniers are idiots. But I don't think they should be criminals.
@Twanzio: I think it seems kinda silly to ban it from a game where all the people wearing those symbols are evil in the most literal sense of the word, from hell, and spend most of the game getting blown up by the player.
Really the game just reinforces the idea that Nazi=evil/bad.
@omgwtflolbbqbye: It isn't that easy, unfortunately. It's the thought of touching on something as problematic as the holocaust in a game, which, as a form of entertainment, is supposed to be "fun" that makes German politicians see red.
For many Germans, fun and Nazi Germany just don't go that well together. Germans start learning about the holocaust when they're still in elementary school, and most students have visited at least one concentration camp by the time they graduate. Wherever you go, you're likely to be told that WWII and anything related to it is serious business.
This attitude is especially prevalent in the generation born immediately after WWII, a generation that still has a lot of influence in German politics. They're also the ones making the laws, obviously. When these people hear of swastikas being used in games, they will of course be horrified. To them, making Nazi Germany part of a Game trivializes Hitler's atrocities and goes against everything they were taught to believe in.
@Hey_Blinkon: I feel that, of course, thoroughly depends on what they're doing for a living and towards whom they spew worthless bile.
People may jump down my throat for this, but I myself am perfectly fine with my country's (Canada) current stance on, say, hate speech, for the record.
@Bialia: My real problem is that hate speech is re-defined over time. The best example I can think of is homosexuality. Some people think it is wrong. By expressing that they think it is wrong, they are accused of making "hate speech" (Which they may be doing, I'm not taking a side on that arguement here). If there are laws against hate speech, then these people are denied their voice, and, an important aspect of their religion. Scoffing at their "stupidity" doesn't change the fact that their rights are denied.
This isn't likely to happen any time soon. But, 25 years from now, or 100 years, as society progresses, this may become a very minoritry view. Then, it would be very possible for this to be widely considered hate speech.
Now, advocating the murder of homosexuals I would not have protected, as that is advocating, well, a crime.
@laencythe: Who Russia? No single country murdered more innocent civilians than germany did in the 20th century. pol pot was bad, but even his numbers dwarf in comparison to the germans.
@Herodito: No, none of those qualify as actual genocide. Plus some of those countries are only second world.
Maybe he's referring to Native Americans? Well, don't worry, that's all cool now. We put some in anti-littering ads, and always make sure to prefix the word "savages" with the word "noble."
Wow, there is still a lot of people that get their facts wrong. As has been posted earlier, this has nothing to do with a ban from the german government! The problem is that Nazi symbols are forbidden in germany... Of course this has to do with our history, and there is a law about it, written a few years after WWII. Of course there are exceptions to that law, especially with movies, but in video games this law holds true. If you ever played the old Indiana Jones adventures in the german version you know what I mean. For more information go to [en.wikipedia.org]
@Hey_Blinkon: The use of the swastika is banned, yes. But the game has not been banned as stated in the article above. Actvision has pulled it from the shelves because they do not want it banned. I know this sounds pretty much like the same deal, but there is a big difference in legal terms. I know that this law should be updated for the 21st century, but it is still the law and Activision has to obey it. Like I said before there have been exceptions, especially for movies, but video games are, as you probably know, a touchy subject in Germany sometimes. I don't agree with it myself, but there are laws in the U.S.A. I don't like either. For example: No naked people and swear words on normal TV??? Hello, Germany. ;-)
Stop trying to pretend it didn't and get over it. What's worse is that a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol. It's like if they used a Fleur De Lis for a symbol and then we never used it on wedding cakes ever again.
I respect the law that says you can't display this symbol in public and think that's a very good idea, but I've always thought that banning it from fictional movies/games/images was a little bit of overkill, especially since it can appear in documentaries and historical/educational images, so folks can still walk into a bookstore or DVD store and see swastikas. Japan does much the same thing with the Imperial Japanese flag...its a little over-the-top.
I actually wish there'd be a public ban on the Confederate flag over here....I don't like it hanging over courthouses and whatnot, not because I hate the South, but because as an American I don't like the idea of states being allowed to fly the flag of a foreign nation (which is what the Confederacy was) in an official capacity. I'd feel the same way if a lot of states started using the Union Jack.
@WhiteMage: The Germans aren't trying to pretend it didn't happen. They are trying to make sure that nothing like it will ever happen again.
As for "a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol", it's the ideology that is embodied by the swastika which is offensive to the majority of people. I know that if someone were to hang swastikas on the graves of WWII soldiers then I would be offended to a degree that far exceeds what my reaction would be if they had hung Fleur de Lis symbols on those graves.
10/20/09
10/21/09
10/21/09
10/20/09
wow ty so much for making sure your console version is tip top then release the pos afterbirth of what the pc version was then do your customers the favor of gettin'r patched up a month later so we can actually finish this pile of steaming shit...Doosh Bags.
I love being a pc gamer.. #wolfenstein
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/14/09
The only thing I didn't like were the horrendous cutscenes. I felt like I was watching something from a PS1 game and they just learned how to use 3d programs.
09/22/09
09/22/09
national socialism is a very sensitive topic here, it's not easy to carry around the thought that your ancestors killed 6 million jews and terrorised all of europe and it's especially not easy to see when others don't take the topic seriously, for example in a zombie/black magic/big guns action shooter. you don't want someone to make a fun action game centered around your grandmothers painful death due to uncureable stomach cancer, do you?
also, would you say that the people who have a problem with the sambo/watermelon thing in scribblenauts are trying to forget about the discrimination of black people? believe me, the first to protest against public display of nazi symbolism in germany are jews and not the all ignorant germans who try to pretend that the holocaust never happened.
09/22/09
There is a huge difference though. It's not illegal to associate sambo and watermelons (even though it is in horribly bad taste). Freedom of speech ensures that all viewpoints, even the ones that are (or appear to be) wrong, receive an opportunity to be heard.
On the other hand, banning symbols of the Nazi regime only serve to preserve the strength of those symbols, and fear associated with them. I hate to go total geek on everybody here (because I can't think of a stronger example, except for Nazi symbolism), but when JK Rowling addresses the fact that the wizarding world refuses to mention Voldemort's name, it continues to give him power through fear. The same logic applies to Nazi symbolism. Items and articles that should be remembered in their context in history, are instead continually feared. It's as if the US had permanently banned display of the Union Jack. I think that we can all agree that such an action would have had rather adverse effects on the development of US/UK relations.
09/23/09
One day I was in Borders reading the preface to Mein Kampf. The preface was written by either a translator or historian, and they put into context the definition of freedom of speech, and why this freedom is more blurred someplace like Germany. It put the whole thing into perspective for me, and I'll be damned if I can't remember what it is. Generally breaking it down to: this event happened there. All of it. And recently, in a historical sense. I encourage anyone who is against this kind of censorship to go out and read it.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
You couldn't be more wrong.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
Disclaimer: I think holocaust deniers are idiots. But I don't think they should be criminals.
09/22/09
Really the game just reinforces the idea that Nazi=evil/bad.
09/22/09
For many Germans, fun and Nazi Germany just don't go that well together. Germans start learning about the holocaust when they're still in elementary school, and most students have visited at least one concentration camp by the time they graduate. Wherever you go, you're likely to be told that WWII and anything related to it is serious business.
This attitude is especially prevalent in the generation born immediately after WWII, a generation that still has a lot of influence in German politics. They're also the ones making the laws, obviously. When these people hear of swastikas being used in games, they will of course be horrified. To them, making Nazi Germany part of a Game trivializes Hitler's atrocities and goes against everything they were taught to believe in.
09/22/09
Hell, dumbass highschoolers who think they're cool carry confederate flags around frequently.
09/22/09
People may jump down my throat for this, but I myself am perfectly fine with my country's (Canada) current stance on, say, hate speech, for the record.
Eh.
09/22/09
This isn't likely to happen any time soon. But, 25 years from now, or 100 years, as society progresses, this may become a very minoritry view. Then, it would be very possible for this to be widely considered hate speech.
Now, advocating the murder of homosexuals I would not have protected, as that is advocating, well, a crime.
09/22/09
09/22/09
doesn't make it better, but it's different.
and at least we do acknowledge the genocide we're responsible for, unlike some nations...
09/22/09
09/22/09
Keep the Militiray-Industrial complex well oiled with the blood of the poor.
09/22/09
Maybe he's referring to Native Americans? Well, don't worry, that's all cool now. We put some in anti-littering ads, and always make sure to prefix the word "savages" with the word "noble."
09/22/09
Aww, look at the little Marxist. When daddy's money runs out, he'll figure things out.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
is it the one on the guy's chin?
sorry about the image... look below.
09/22/09
@KingDavid73: sorry about the crappy image.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
It happened.
Stop trying to pretend it didn't and get over it. What's worse is that a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol. It's like if they used a Fleur De Lis for a symbol and then we never used it on wedding cakes ever again.
09/22/09
I respect the law that says you can't display this symbol in public and think that's a very good idea, but I've always thought that banning it from fictional movies/games/images was a little bit of overkill, especially since it can appear in documentaries and historical/educational images, so folks can still walk into a bookstore or DVD store and see swastikas. Japan does much the same thing with the Imperial Japanese flag...its a little over-the-top.
I actually wish there'd be a public ban on the Confederate flag over here....I don't like it hanging over courthouses and whatnot, not because I hate the South, but because as an American I don't like the idea of states being allowed to fly the flag of a foreign nation (which is what the Confederacy was) in an official capacity. I'd feel the same way if a lot of states started using the Union Jack.
09/22/09
As for "a swastika isn't even an offensive symbol", it's the ideology that is embodied by the swastika which is offensive to the majority of people. I know that if someone were to hang swastikas on the graves of WWII soldiers then I would be offended to a degree that far exceeds what my reaction would be if they had hung Fleur de Lis symbols on those graves.
09/22/09
Activision is pulling the game, Germany is not. Pull your heads out, people.