@Kenny: Mmmmm, I love colons!: Agreed a million billion times. There was a poll a little while back showing that the PC is the second most used online platform for Kotaku readers, so it would stand to reason that a fair amount of userbase are PC gamers. Having more PC gaming editors would result in more info on PC gaming and would help dispel a lot of the myths we see numbnuts spew in the few PC based articles there are.
I will be surprised if any developer will do the same mistake some tried with vista. This might support directx11, but I doubt any game will be released that isn't suported by xp for a long time. They tried to force people to upgrade to vista by releasing directx 10 games, but they flopped horribly. Soon after, we never heard another directx10 vista only game. It will be an itneresting experiment, but I doubt people will shell out money to support this for a while.
It's nice to see that at least some people have praise for this game.
I love it and I think that it is a great game- especially considering that you can play through the entire game, new and old content included, for free.
If I'm not mistaken, DX10 cards can take advantage of some of DX11's improvements/features, as well as Windows 7 RC having DX11 support?
I'm probably wrong, I've been out of the game for a while now, haven't followed DX11 or DX11 cards whatsoever, but Windows 7 RC lists DX11 on my PC with my GTX 285.
@Paradox me: Most of these new fancy DX routines wont be implemented because Microsoft and Sony are sticking close to home with their current consoles, and most developers are not PC primarily, and even if they are, most don't take full advantage because they still want to port.
Edited by (Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! at 09/30/09 10:54 PM
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was starred
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was unstarred
@(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid!: Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it (which is why I pulled the plug on annual hardware upgrades and such) but I'm still kinda curious to see how its going to be.
@Paradox me:
DX11 follows the 'strict superset' approach, just like DX10.1 did with DX10: in theory, any DX11 game would run in DX10 hardware, but with some effects disabled.
One of the new features, compute shaders, actually was planned to work with older hardware, and is divided in multiple levels of features, for all hardware versions since DX9. Not sure how the devs. will handle it tough.
Last but not least, there were software-only changes too, improvements on multi-threading support, that don't deppend on what hardware you're using: as long as the game is programmed with the DX11 API, and you're running DX11 in Vista/Win7, you'll see the benefits.
@Paradox me: You aren't wrong. Some of DirectX 11's new features are implemented to take advantage of multi-core CPUs, which in turn helps use the GPU better.
@Evdor: Can't stop Moore's Law man. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Moore's Law may exceed Moore's law. Moore's law is all based on silicon, pretty soon quantum computers will blow conventional computing out of the water. Some day we may have massively parallel computers that can accurately simulate the universe! Perhaps they can even create worlds so complex they are actual universes, with living beings.
What if we even actually broke the speed of light barrier? I know, general relativity would collapse and all, but imagine what computers could do without a speed of light limitation? They would be easily accessible time machines, to say the least..
Edited by (Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! at 09/30/09 10:49 PM
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was starred
(Zombie) D Mitsuki, Gotta have guts kid! was unstarred
And even though it's not the fastest speed possible, its the fastest speed physically possible with the current way technology works. When I referenced speed of light I meant c^2, not in vacuum (fuck latency) although even just c^2 would be amazing.
Awaken from thine imaginary world young man. Computers will never replicate the human brain so forget about creating a universe with living beings... best you can do is create immersive games that are more alive with increased computer controlled characters with increased AI as the programmer decides. AI is nothing but a set of rules, it will operate within those rules that are programmed into it.
All these advances in the world yet we will all be dead and our planet depleted before long because we are not utilizing these resources in a responsible way. Everyone is so used to abusing their planet and taking things for granted that to ask any of us to give up these things for the sake of the planet is next to impossible... by the time people start waking up, its likely going to be too late to fix the problem.
@StRyKeR2K8: That is not true. There are already programs being created that simulate evolution in environments based on the habitat provided. Essentially, you have beings that are given traits that don't really do anything, and rather then program AI, you program the neurological pathways that are found in humans, or at least something similar as you can get. When put in their environment, they will continue to grow and the fittest will survive in ways you probably wouldn't begin to imagine. If anybody knows what I'm talking about, please link the video demonstrating this because I can not for the life of me remember what it is.
Further more, programing something akin to a brain is not impossible, You must just understand more concepts of a brain then we currently do. This study is not entirely impossible, most things aren't, it is just hard. But if we let little things like that stop us, then we wouldn't have half the things we have today.
Lastly the problems in our world are becoming more and more present in our society, as a whole it's not that we lack a initiative to fix it, its that old people do, because it's hard and they will be too dead to feel the consequences of their actions. I think as it becomes more prevalent that the old people don't care how screwed over we are, the more initiative young people will have to do something about it. If only we could stop the propagated brainwashing though saying "THE ONLY WAY FOR THEM TO PROVE SHIT LIKE THAT IS FOR US TO BURN"
My brain still hurts when people complain about how much memory Vista uses when idle. Oh no, how dare my operating system try to make use of extra resources while I'm not doing anything productive! It is so important that my ram just sit there and do nothing while the screen saver is running.
@cmd: Well, obviously people who have avoided buying or building a new PC for quite a while. The only thing that Vista really uses more of is memory.
I mean, come on. If you can't pull $25 out of your ass for two Gigs of memory, I guess you'll complain about anything. The vast majority of people that complain about Vista have a. never used it, or b. have a PC that is not up to spec with older hardware and poor driver support as a result.
@dowingba: I concur, what the fuck? Is it really already getting all ramped up for the next version? Is MS gonna pump them out on time with new Xbox's now?
@freakout: Hmmm. Seeing as that I'm typing this on a Mac, I should take offense to that. But usually people get this huge preconception about Apple and their products (yes, they are overpriced, no they don't suck) and I just feel I have to tell you, and plenty of others on here, use your OS for what you need it for, and don't complain otherwise. I'm tired of people bitching about "Mac elitism" and shit when it seems like every PC owner runs out and shouts bad shit about an operating system they don't even use. Mac's are excellent, stable computers hardware is expensive but very solid, and the OS *10.5 and up* is very amazingly efficient and also stable, seeing as that I upgraded my PPC Mac Mini to Leopard when it came out, and despite a lot of doubt, it made most of my programs run FASTER than before, even though the core operating system required slightly more resources.
NOW, with that bit out of the way, let me spill this one out for you before you get high and mighty on me. I use my Mac for writing/recording music (Logic Pro) storing and syncing my music with my iPod touch (iTunes runs best on Mac, I've used the Windows alternative, too buggy) storing and organizing my photos, editing photos (Adobe) browsing the internet (Safari, and Firefox lie next to each other on my dock for user choice, both run smoothly, but I prefer the built in players on Safari though) and of course editing video with iMovie (not the greatest, I've used much better, but for free software, it's kick-you-in-the-face awesome)
I do NOT use my Mac for gaming, otherwise I would've bought a PC. But let me tell you, I used XP for a long time (all my friends are PC gamers) and frankly, Vista was a step down (as we ALL know well) and while you say, "Say what you will about Vista. At least it's not a fucking Mac" I think you need to reorient your thought chain, tell me, do you own a Mac? Or do you just sit and play the PC elitist card like everyone else?
Honestly, I think Vistas ALL-TOO-MANY-VERSIONS helped bring the PC gaming industry to where it is right now.
XP had too many as it were, but it seems that having that one dumb version that is crippled to the rest of the versions take it's toll on people constantly buying games.
I use Vista Ultimate, and I enjoy it immensely, but I can't help but note that there are people who have been scared away MORESO from people's experiences of Home Basic than the bug issue. The Mojave Experiment isn't talking about those experiences, and have swept Home Basic under the rug.
Only that object is a huge mound, sitting under the middle of the rug, and there are guests at the party gawking at it.
Too bad the host is apparently dumb and blind to this fact.
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
* No support for two processors * Backup limitations: No support for ShadowCopy or image-based system backup/recovery. * No file system encryption * No desktop deployment tools * No policy based QoS networking * No Rights Management Services (RMS) Client * No control over installation of device drivers * No network Access Protection Client agent * No pluggable logon authentication architecture * No integrated smart card management * No BitLocker drive encryption support * No support for worldwide interface languages or simultaneous installations of multiple user interface languages * No subsystem for UNIX-based applications * Does not provide Virtual PC Express * No Windows Ultimate Extras * Small Business Resources * Windows fax and scan * Wireless network provisioning * Only partial support for Windows Mobility Center * Cannot join a network domain * Remote desktop client support, but cannot serve as host * No group policy support * No offline files and folders support* No support for scheduled backups or for the backup of files to a network device. * No Aero user interface (glass, live thumbnails, dynamic windows, etc.) * No themed slide shows * No Windows Media Center (recording television, Xbox extensions, HD Movie Maker, and DVD maker) Note: home basic does provide Windows Movie Maker (just not the HD version) * No new premium games * Limited to 5 SMB peer network connections (vice the 10 supported by the other editions) * No tablet PC support * No Windows Slideshow feature * Windows Meeting space support is limited to "view only" * No PC-to-PC synchronization * No network projection * No presentation settings
Add the limitations to RAM capacity to the fact that it can't support multiple processors, and you have a gimped system; even if you paid thousands on said system.
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
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@TheIrishNinja: Anytime! I have more reasons to add, but I will tell you now that "The Mojave Experiment" is misleading, when you consider that "Mojave" used in the commercials is using the same exact version that I am using right now (The one I am using typing this message, as we speak!)
Being as I use BOTH Windows Vista Ultimate AND OSX Snow Leopard, I can say that I prefer the Vista Ultimate more.
But I will also say that I have used Windows Vista Home Basic for 90 days on a dual core a year back, and have used Home Basic another 30 days on a loaner laptop. The experiences (or lack of the Mojave experience) is VIRTUALLY the same experience that others I've talked to describe.
THIS IS A HUGE CATALYST AS TO WHY VISTA IS "EPIC FAIL". From an analytical point of view, one of the biggest reasons why Apple can still laugh with an elitest eye at Microsoft is because they simplified their OS to be available in two flavors: Personal Use & Server. The moment that Microsoft gave 31 flavors, with 30 of the other flavors being gimpy, it compells a power user to go the most expensive route. Sensible computer users are more apt to go the "Apple Tax" route, not because of the price of the OS, but because they know what they are getting.
And that is what I see of Microsoft's BIGGEST problem. It's sad too, when you consider that the PC is "The World's Biggest Indie Gaming Console."
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
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@Soldier_CLE scratches himself, seems pleased.: Keep in mind that the majority of those features in that list are worthless for the average home user anyhow. While I see no point in all the Vista versions either, most people have no need for what is in that list.
"No support for two processors" for example means no support for 2 physical processors. Vista Home Basic runs on a Quad Core processor just fine, enabling all 4 cores. This limitation is only a problem when running workstation class hardware with dual Xeon or Athlon chips.
It's a big difference between cores and running two cores.
My laptop even notes the difference in running the models Home Basic and Ultimate on the benchmarks alone. I don't even bother using the Windows Experience indicators, since I know there are far better Benchmark testers out there on the market.
While no person needs all of what is on the list, the truth is that most who rely on their computer for work or personal use can/may/will find use for what is on there. I use NetMeetings personally when I decide the need for it, I used the HD MovieMaker (before getting Vegas), and BitLock encryption certainly helps me from when I put travel with files on my laptop in transit from city to city.
Just saying... While I agree that some of the features would not be used, I would argue that there is something there for everyone in the Ultimate package that would make it worth the upgrade (if they'd lower the price... Like Apple, I have come to call it "The Window Tax") That, and from personal experience of using both Home Basic and Ultimate, both are dramatically different experiences.
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
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In other news, GFW Initiative is single handedly keeping PC gaming from spiraling into oblivion with its wide variety of first party, AAA quality games. Oh wait...
10/01/09
Sorry, I'm sure there will be some games to really take advantage of it in a while.
10/01/09
Having just one guy cover PC games by himself results in errors like the 20 people below me have already pointed out.
10/01/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
2 DX 11 cards that are out on the market.
09/30/09
I love it and I think that it is a great game- especially considering that you can play through the entire game, new and old content included, for free.
09/30/09
09/30/09
I'm probably wrong, I've been out of the game for a while now, haven't followed DX11 or DX11 cards whatsoever, but Windows 7 RC lists DX11 on my PC with my GTX 285.
09/30/09
*Edit* edited to appear less douche'y
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
DX11 follows the 'strict superset' approach, just like DX10.1 did with DX10: in theory, any DX11 game would run in DX10 hardware, but with some effects disabled.
One of the new features, compute shaders, actually was planned to work with older hardware, and is divided in multiple levels of features, for all hardware versions since DX9. Not sure how the devs. will handle it tough.
Last but not least, there were software-only changes too, improvements on multi-threading support, that don't deppend on what hardware you're using: as long as the game is programmed with the DX11 API, and you're running DX11 in Vista/Win7, you'll see the benefits.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09
What if we even actually broke the speed of light barrier? I know, general relativity would collapse and all, but imagine what computers could do without a speed of light limitation? They would be easily accessible time machines, to say the least..
09/30/09
Also, quantum computers will rule the computing world.
09/30/09
And even though it's not the fastest speed possible, its the fastest speed physically possible with the current way technology works. When I referenced speed of light I meant c^2, not in vacuum (fuck latency) although even just c^2 would be amazing.
09/30/09
Awaken from thine imaginary world young man. Computers will never replicate the human brain so forget about creating a universe with living beings... best you can do is create immersive games that are more alive with increased computer controlled characters with increased AI as the programmer decides. AI is nothing but a set of rules, it will operate within those rules that are programmed into it.
All these advances in the world yet we will all be dead and our planet depleted before long because we are not utilizing these resources in a responsible way. Everyone is so used to abusing their planet and taking things for granted that to ask any of us to give up these things for the sake of the planet is next to impossible... by the time people start waking up, its likely going to be too late to fix the problem.
09/30/09
Further more, programing something akin to a brain is not impossible, You must just understand more concepts of a brain then we currently do. This study is not entirely impossible, most things aren't, it is just hard. But if we let little things like that stop us, then we wouldn't have half the things we have today.
Lastly the problems in our world are becoming more and more present in our society, as a whole it's not that we lack a initiative to fix it, its that old people do, because it's hard and they will be too dead to feel the consequences of their actions. I think as it becomes more prevalent that the old people don't care how screwed over we are, the more initiative young people will have to do something about it. If only we could stop the propagated brainwashing though saying "THE ONLY WAY FOR THEM TO PROVE SHIT LIKE THAT IS FOR US TO BURN"
09/30/09
C, not C^2, and fibre, not vacuum.
11/23/08
11/22/08
When we switched at my work many ppl hold on o XP to the last possible time.. But when they switched they all agreed to that it's better then XP.
So, the ones not liking Vista ar the ones who never tried it for more then 1 week.
It isnt a big difference betwen xp and vista, but vista just make everything go smoother and faster.
11/22/08
Um, the vast majority of PC users?
11/22/08
I mean, come on. If you can't pull $25 out of your ass for two Gigs of memory, I guess you'll complain about anything. The vast majority of people that complain about Vista have a. never used it, or b. have a PC that is not up to spec with older hardware and poor driver support as a result.
[www.newegg.com]
11/22/08
I haven't crashed once, I've got over 300 gigs of music on it and it runs smooth as XP ever did for me on my home comp. Probably even better.
11/22/08
300 Gigs of music?!?!
do share please.
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
NOW, with that bit out of the way, let me spill this one out for you before you get high and mighty on me. I use my Mac for writing/recording music (Logic Pro) storing and syncing my music with my iPod touch (iTunes runs best on Mac, I've used the Windows alternative, too buggy) storing and organizing my photos, editing photos (Adobe) browsing the internet (Safari, and Firefox lie next to each other on my dock for user choice, both run smoothly, but I prefer the built in players on Safari though) and of course editing video with iMovie (not the greatest, I've used much better, but for free software, it's kick-you-in-the-face awesome)
I do NOT use my Mac for gaming, otherwise I would've bought a PC. But let me tell you, I used XP for a long time (all my friends are PC gamers) and frankly, Vista was a step down (as we ALL know well) and while you say, "Say what you will about Vista. At least it's not a fucking Mac" I think you need to reorient your thought chain, tell me, do you own a Mac? Or do you just sit and play the PC elitist card like everyone else?
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/21/08
XP had too many as it were, but it seems that having that one dumb version that is crippled to the rest of the versions take it's toll on people constantly buying games.
I use Vista Ultimate, and I enjoy it immensely, but I can't help but note that there are people who have been scared away MORESO from people's experiences of Home Basic than the bug issue. The Mojave Experiment isn't talking about those experiences, and have swept Home Basic under the rug.
Only that object is a huge mound, sitting under the middle of the rug, and there are guests at the party gawking at it.
Too bad the host is apparently dumb and blind to this fact.
11/22/08
11/22/08
* No support for two processors
* Backup limitations: No support for ShadowCopy or image-based system backup/recovery.
* No file system encryption
* No desktop deployment tools
* No policy based QoS networking
* No Rights Management Services (RMS) Client
* No control over installation of device drivers
* No network Access Protection Client agent
* No pluggable logon authentication architecture
* No integrated smart card management
* No BitLocker drive encryption support
* No support for worldwide interface languages or simultaneous installations of multiple user interface languages
* No subsystem for UNIX-based applications
* Does not provide Virtual PC Express
* No Windows Ultimate Extras
* Small Business Resources
* Windows fax and scan
* Wireless network provisioning
* Only partial support for Windows Mobility Center
* Cannot join a network domain
* Remote desktop client support, but cannot serve as host
* No group policy support
* No offline files and folders support* No support for scheduled backups or for the backup of files to a network device.
* No Aero user interface (glass, live thumbnails, dynamic windows, etc.)
* No themed slide shows
* No Windows Media Center (recording television, Xbox extensions, HD Movie Maker, and DVD maker) Note: home basic does provide Windows Movie Maker (just not the HD version)
* No new premium games
* Limited to 5 SMB peer network connections (vice the 10 supported by the other editions)
* No tablet PC support
* No Windows Slideshow feature
* Windows Meeting space support is limited to "view only"
* No PC-to-PC synchronization
* No network projection
* No presentation settings
Add the limitations to RAM capacity to the fact that it can't support multiple processors, and you have a gimped system; even if you paid thousands on said system.
11/22/08
11/22/08
Being as I use BOTH Windows Vista Ultimate AND OSX Snow Leopard, I can say that I prefer the Vista Ultimate more.
But I will also say that I have used Windows Vista Home Basic for 90 days on a dual core a year back, and have used Home Basic another 30 days on a loaner laptop. The experiences (or lack of the Mojave experience) is VIRTUALLY the same experience that others I've talked to describe.
THIS IS A HUGE CATALYST AS TO WHY VISTA IS "EPIC FAIL". From an analytical point of view, one of the biggest reasons why Apple can still laugh with an elitest eye at Microsoft is because they simplified their OS to be available in two flavors: Personal Use & Server. The moment that Microsoft gave 31 flavors, with 30 of the other flavors being gimpy, it compells a power user to go the most expensive route. Sensible computer users are more apt to go the "Apple Tax" route, not because of the price of the OS, but because they know what they are getting.
And that is what I see of Microsoft's BIGGEST problem. It's sad too, when you consider that the PC is "The World's Biggest Indie Gaming Console."
11/22/08
"No support for two processors" for example means no support for 2 physical processors. Vista Home Basic runs on a Quad Core processor just fine, enabling all 4 cores. This limitation is only a problem when running workstation class hardware with dual Xeon or Athlon chips.
11/22/08
It's a big difference between cores and running two cores.
My laptop even notes the difference in running the models Home Basic and Ultimate on the benchmarks alone. I don't even bother using the Windows Experience indicators, since I know there are far better Benchmark testers out there on the market.
While no person needs all of what is on the list, the truth is that most who rely on their computer for work or personal use can/may/will find use for what is on there. I use NetMeetings personally when I decide the need for it, I used the HD MovieMaker (before getting Vegas), and BitLock encryption certainly helps me from when I put travel with files on my laptop in transit from city to city.
Just saying... While I agree that some of the features would not be used, I would argue that there is something there for everyone in the Ultimate package that would make it worth the upgrade (if they'd lower the price... Like Apple, I have come to call it "The Window Tax") That, and from personal experience of using both Home Basic and Ultimate, both are dramatically different experiences.
11/21/08