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Denver, 11:37 AM
Wed Dec 2
62 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/02/09
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I think games should start working on trying to have their own golden age like Hollywood did, instead of trying to emulate the action and sports side of things.
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Any guy playing with that is NOT going to have a flat stomach.
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10/01/09
And, after finishing the story you can grind FOREVER (almost).
It's not the same as Persona 3 that they smash you until you grind (bosses).
10/01/09
Huh.
Touché.
10/01/09
Shame, that. I love delving into my party members' stories more than my own hero's story.
10/01/09
Frankly, I don't care either or if the RPG is short as long as it's GOOD. You can have 60 hours of dull, repetitive gameplay and lack of substance...
Some people want the 80 hours of game but how MUCH of that time is actual story is GOOD? What if the story is like..25 hours and the remainder is grinding...? If an RPG is setting out to tell a story then I DON'T need 80+ hours to get there.
Hell, Evolution on the Dreamcast was like 12 hours, FF VII straight through without side quests is like 24 hours, Grandia II is 40 hours, SMT:DDS 1 and 2 are both 40 hours, combine them and they're 80 hours. Nocturne is about 60 hours that is if you're insane like me and want to try to take on Lucifer and have Dante in your party then the game balloons to the 90+ mark.
Now, if you're aiming for pure gameplay and not necessarily story so much then sure, go on to whatever hour you see fit. But for me, if I'm engaged into the story, I want to get to the story not the nook and cranny of the world....that's what the new game + is for.
Nowadays, we work, we have kids to take care of, bills, other games...RPGs are at a fine length if they smack the 40-60 hour length. At least in comparison to other games that currently tap out at 4 to 8 hours...
Longer doesn't always mean better. Not unless you want to get Dante.
Sweet, sweet Dante.
10/01/09
The lengthily story and the endless waves of random encounters make them pretty DAMN long games (^_~)
10/01/09
SMT:DDS 1 and 2 are both 40 hours.
10/01/09
Sure mileages may vary, but I've spend a good 75 to 90 hours with each game...so don't come and tell me they're just 40 hours. (╬ ಠ益ಠ)
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10/01/09
Akihiro Hino had always said that his ideal length was 50 hours, so the fact they have cut it down for White Knight chronicles kinda worries me. Rogue Galaxy was a little under the 50 mark yet i still enjoyed it immensely.
I'd rather a fantastic single player adventure that took 40-60 hours than a 25 hour adventure with lots of online.
I dunno, I guess i play Level 5 games for the magic hey bring to the genre and having it become MMOesque really worries me.
10/01/09
Just a bit.
I would never replay the game from scratch ever again. My precious new game+ file will never be deleted.
10/01/09
:hugs:
Awwww, wow, what were you doing in the games to balloon it too 75 to 90 hours?
Every game varies upon the player or the skill level, the intended projection of time for both DDSs is around 20 to 40 hours. Probably less if you're that freak Ueziel!! :curse you Ueziel!!:
But the max for DDS is about 20-40 hours.
10/01/09
Exactly, some RPGs need you to be at a certain level in order to access the stage or boss or even progressing the game...which is kinda sucks. But I don't mind grinding, it's part of the reasons why I love JRPGs.
Nowadays, I don't need any RPG to be longer then 60 hours.
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10/01/09
You're still a freak, don't try to deny that sir! LOL!
But you're right, grinding where the weaker monsters are aren't going to get you to the proper levels needed to complete the game.
With me in DDS, I carried a crap load of Repulse Bells and Magic Reeds until I got the magic skill for them, then sold them all for more Chakra Drops or Muscle Drinks.
Then there's games like Nocturne where all I needed to go was the Kalpas after beating all the skeleton people and the four horsemen.
Dante...sweet Dante. He was worth my struggle.
10/01/09
It's like comparing books based on how many pages and words they have.
10/01/09
When I had a ton of time on my hands I wanted them to be 50 + with side quests and all the fixins'. Now I find that kind of RPG quite tedious. Especially if it has grinding and old game play mechanics.
I think that an RPG can be shortened to a reasonable 25 hours and still tell a great story and provide a great experience.
10/01/09
I finished basically everything I could do in my first run through Mass Effect in around 30 hours, a time that I find perfect now. It was just long enough that I wasn't tired of any facet of the game, but long enough that I was really attached to my characters and wanted to just keep going. I almost played it twice, back-to-back, something I haven't been able to do since I was 12.
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1. Good guy answer
2. Lame answer
3. Asshole answer
Video game RPGs are actually more adventure than role-playing.
10/01/09
At any rate, RPGs haven't evolved in the east since Dragon Warrior (which, of course, was based off of Wizardry & Ultima - two early American cRPGs). Dragon Quest was a very good computer RPG for it's time, doing what it could to create an RPG experience on a console.
Then... they just kept imitating Dragon Quest and adding small improvements, instead of trying to create something more like the tabletop RPG experience. The limitations of doing this are really starting to catch up to them, though to be fair, by not allowing much choice, the story telling does become stronger. (Not everything is wholly negative).
Western RPGs are trying more for the tabletop RPG experience, but right now they're limited by hardware & budget. Baldur's Gate showed it could be done, but then everything went 3D, and suddenly much more of the budget went to prettier graphics. Western RPGs are innovating, however, which is evident when you get games as divergent as The Witcher, Mass Effect & Oblivion out there.
10/01/09
10/01/09
I beat Final Fantasy II in 25 hours the first time through. Secret of Mana took merely two long days of gaming with a friend.
There's just no reason to spend that much time with a game. I can't believe it's viable and sustainable in the long term to make such long games.
It actually seems counter-intuitive. Sure, you want to make sure there's content for the gamers out there who do have the time because they'll be buying your games. But for those of us who don't have the time or do want to play a game to completion, it just means we're more likely to pass on the next big RPG that's really just derivative in a way that Madden games are year to year.
Shorter RPGs with focused stories would be the way to go. Final Fantasy VII kind of started a trend where RPGs took longer. Worlds became bigger. Speed became slower. Going between dungeon floors with random encounters went from five minute treks to encounters you can avoid but somehow take longer because the levels are bigger and your character slower to create immersion.
Worse yet was the adoption of sandbox RPGs. 100s of hours in a single game. Joy of joys if it's good all the way through. Typically, though? They're not.
Short and sweet would be the way to go. Maybe add some new game plus stuff afterwards, but get the core story out of the way so gamers can have that closure and move onto the next title.
10/01/09
10/01/09
The reason why i got in the RPGs genre was because of their lengths, i love the spending X amount of time looking under every rock to complete a game feeling they give.
I've been playing since i was 6 years old, and i have yet to find a game series more engrossing than the Disgaea series. Generally the story of this games are a couple of hours long, but once you finish the main story that's when the fun begins.
I work from 11pm to 7am, i go to the gym 4-5 at week, i take care of my little brother after he's out of school and i have more than enough time to cook dinner and spend quality time with my better and surprisingly i found the time to spend more than 2300 hours in this series...and guess what i'm not tired of bore of it yet.
So you go and play your short sports games or fps and leave my beloved time waster alone. ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ
10/01/09
Mass Effect's side quests were really a drag. Fallout 3, though, had a whole free-roaming exploration with random encounters aspect that was fairly interesting.
I *liked* Mass Effect a LOT, but it was all about core story arc. That game was perfect in core length, but I don't think it would have been fun to just wander around having infinite random missions to tackle (especially not in the way the side missions worked).
ME, like a lot of RPGs, had a ton of BS filler that did nothing but add more time to the campaign.
10/01/09
But no, they make the bosses so strong that the only way to kill them is to grind for hours. Even if you exploit the enemy's weakness and make every strategic move correctly, you'll still lose. Thus, 10 hours becomes 100 hours.
What exactly is being tested when I win a game by killing piles upon piles of porings? My patience? My ability to press the X button a lot?
Here's a tip, RPG developers - make grinding optional. If you want to grind, go ahead. Spend three hours to make the next boss encounter a bit more manageable, but don't force it upon me. Otherwise, it isn't much different from having a guard that prevents me from going forward until I pay a toll, although it's time instead of money.
10/01/09
Your ideas on RPGs are horribly outdated and are very much the exception to the rule. If you come across a boss and you think you're making every "correct choice" in fighting it and still losing, chances are you are wrong.
10/01/09
I honestly can't think of the last RPG I played that didn't involve a shit ton of grinding. Give me a game that doesn't involve it and I'll check it out. Well, I guess you mentioned Lost Odyssey, but I can't be bothered to buy a new console for one game.
Basically, I stop playing every RPG at exactly the same point - right before the final boss. The final boss usually requires such an insane amount of grinding that I just lose interest. Even though I've come that far, it just isn't worth it.
10/01/09
Disgaea, Final Fantasy Tactics, and all other strategy RPGs like it are something else entirely. Honestly, I don't consider them RPGs, but games with RPG elements in the same way I don't consider Castlevania games with levels as an RPG.
I don't play many sports games and don't touch FPS's. If I did, however, I would note how most people who buy those games soak even more hours than the typical RPG does by playing online.
10/01/09
And by my original post, you could. It just wouldn't be a core part of the story.
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I think they also only talk about the main story line to complete in 30 hours since they were only talking about how they put the games story together.
10/01/09
I've played numerous games this gen that have lasted me wayy more than 30 hours including Lost Odyssey at about 60 hours, Tales of Vesperia also about 60 hours (both times), Blue Dragon and Star Ocean 4 also about 40 hours each.