Let me just say first and fore most "War" is a male fantasy just the same as preparing a nice dinner for a family is a female fantasy. That is to say that most males I know want nothing to do with full scale war as seen in Modern warfare. So to constantly refer to the events of the game as male fantasy is insulting.
Secondly, some of your arguments involve several "leaps of faith" to seemingly support your games are sexist agenda.
It's a pretty far stretch to say that a game is sexist for not featuring any female just as it would be to say a game is racist for not featuring any minorities.
I can go on and on about this but its easier to say that your argument (no matter how well intended) bring shame to the cause you hope to support.
AJ, for what it's worth, I'd say that you and your "Sex and the City" Game Club, and this story being the result, has done more to damage perceptions about female gamers than any non-existent female special ops characters.
I posit that the reason (90% of) the guys down thread don't really understand the "point" of this article is because they are men and AJ is a woman (as am I, full disclosure) -- whoa! Crazytown statement, I know.
Here's the thing you're forgetting: Women have no choice but to exist in a world catered to men. Important point, when we ladies ask to be "catered to" (read: included) as AJ is here, you get all the bullshit sexist comments below saying she's "finding something to complain about" and etc. Way to make your argument guys. Thumbs up.
What I also find interesting is that the guys are getting all up in arms about the fact that these "art-school feminists" are sitting around chatting about "crushes on videogame protagonists" and claiming this is more damaging to women than any of the other obviously sexist examples AJ listed in this article.
What I believe these (you?) guys are not seeing here is that while these women were able to play and react to the game as humans (like, their genitals didn't prevent them from being immersed in game play) once out of gameplay, they related to the male-centric cast with lust instead of, I guess, taking on the accomplishments of their characters as their own, as a dude would? What should they have been talking about after finishing the game? From what I read here, they found the game immersive, the characters well written and developed, and they also happened to find them attractive (even though they couldn't see some of their faces--what does it mean?!). Are you suggesting they...should react to the game as a man would, too? Or that they not play the game at all, if that's what they're gonna talk about!
On this point, I'm confused, you see. Enlighten a girl.
Edited by Taggart6 is Tiger Woods Mistress 342 at 12/14/09 5:17 PM
Taggart6 is Tiger Woods Mistress 342 was starred
Taggart6 is Tiger Woods Mistress 342 was unstarred
There are places, there are times. Gender is fascinating; I, personally, could debate about it endlessly. It never ceases to baffle me that at least half the population of humans aren't the same gender as at least the other half. But in a game as banal as MW2, gender has little place. It's a tremendous, shooty, masculine fantasy. Its as productive as gender studies in the NFL are. These things will only be either what they are now or they will not be.
War, action, and awesome, on the other hand, aren't the domain of just one sex, much less one gender. I'd love to play a game based on some badass pants-wearing Russian partisan men and women.
@SPni: Please explain how spending $300 on this means I should be shot? If I can afford it, and I enjoy it, who the fuck are you to make death threats?
If you're too poor to be able to afford this, maybe YOU should be shot. See? No logic. Get lost.
@Ghinn: It's not about being to poor to afford it. If you're going to drop $300 on a toy version of something that can be bought for the same price you may as well buy the real thing. A guitar that is. Not a Fender Strat. Those things are damned expensive.
@SPni: If common sense involves shooting people, I think I'd prefer uncommon sense.
You'll notice that everyone disagreed with you. It's because you said something unintelligent or rude. Best to consider the error rather than taking everyone on.
Seems throwing a woman in the mix would make about as much sense having a panda that knows kungfu on the team.
The middle point of your article kind of answers why boys don't like girls playing video games. We don't sit around talking about which characters we wanna be, or which buxom bimbo we'd like to sleep with.
We just play the game.
I don't try to identify with the characters in FPS. I just run, shoot, wait for the paint to clear, and continue.
I don't like how they keep making these controllers and saying how realistic they are, when they don't at least give you the bloody option to have a cable attached. The only thing stopping me from buying the Beatles RB guitars is the fact they're wireless. Yes, I'm insane, thanks for pointing that out.
Had to point this out, AJ: If No Russian had more women in the airport, I can almost guarantee you that some media folks wouldn't have been complaining about killing civilians. They would've been complaining about murdering women. Seeing women associated with scenes of violence is still a touchy subject in this country, and I think Infinity Ward was likely aware of that.
I remember there being more than one woman in the airport, but not many more. IW dodged a bullet, so to speak, by limiting their numbers there.
This was a pretty good article, I thought. Many people are taking it....differently than I did when I read it. Most of these are the same people that crapped on Raven Alexis' article because they were offended that a woman was telling them how to pick up women.
mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta promoted this comment
Dr. Evil Genius is eagerly anticipating the Year of the Black Rainbow was starred
Dr. Evil Genius is eagerly anticipating the Year of the Black Rainbow was unstarred
@mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta: Good point. After 20 years, people still hold a vigil in Montreal for the shooting at École Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989. Why? Because the guy only targeted women, claiming to be fighting feminism. Do you think, after 20 years, that vigils would be held if it was a woman who went into the school and shot 28 men, killing 14 or them? Not bloody likely.
So yeah, if there were more women in that level in the airport, people would definitely be claiming that women were being murdered instead of civilians being killed.
@mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta: Most of these are the same people that crapped on Raven Alexis' article because they were offended that a woman was telling them how to pick up women.
This. Also the same people who come here just once a month to tell Tim Rogers how much he sucks (he doesn't) and post TL;DR.
What can we say though, controversy creates cash. And anything that involves girl gamers in a market predominantly male will just have its influx of idiots rushing in with the old "You're doing it wrong" response. It's people like this that nearly make me ashamed to be part of videogames and its culture. I know the Internet's for free speech and all but there's a line betwen putting your point(s) across in a decent manner, and just being a moron.
What this article really tells us is this: 3 girls sat in a room and played Modern Warfare 2. They enjoyed it in the same manner that men did. It didn't need any special treatment or add-ons to get the girls to like it.
@James Henderson: I did not write this article to create controversy. I receive no financial incentive to write inflammatory articles. I pitched this feature because it was something I cared about and worked with my editor to craft a narrative that was honest and open to comment in keeping with Kotaku's editorial standards. Whether it traffics 100 hits or 100,000 hits, my work here is done and I'm damn proud of it.
While it's cool in concept, I wouldn't buy something like this, I would buy a real strat and play it and stick to the plastic instruments for Rock Band. :D
@Strangelove: The Ion kit is fantastic, once you spend the 45 minutes unboxing and setting it up. Make sure you have a good chair, the drum stool that they sell alongside it is terrible. I'd also suggest investing in a set of real drumsticks. The ones that come with it are really light, and totally wood. Get a nice set with plastic tips.
@Ghinn: Yeah, I'm definitely planning on getting a good drum throne (tough to find an extra tall one, because I'm 6'6"), and I actually have sticks with plastic tips already for the regular kit after the ones that came with it disintegrated. Plastic tips are definitely the way to go.
@Strangelove: If you're that tall, you're really gonna have to play around with adjusting it. I'm 5'9", and I have to have it basically as high as it can go. You'll see when you get it. I'm sure that you'll find a way to adjust it to suit you.
07:15 PM
07:04 PM
Bullshit, I still refuse to buy this.
07:01 PM
Secondly, some of your arguments involve several "leaps of faith" to seemingly support your games are sexist agenda.
It's a pretty far stretch to say that a game is sexist for not featuring any female just as it would be to say a game is racist for not featuring any minorities.
I can go on and on about this but its easier to say that your argument (no matter how well intended) bring shame to the cause you hope to support.
06:00 PM
05:53 PM
Here's the thing you're forgetting: Women have no choice but to exist in a world catered to men. Important point, when we ladies ask to be "catered to" (read: included) as AJ is here, you get all the bullshit sexist comments below saying she's "finding something to complain about" and etc. Way to make your argument guys. Thumbs up.
What I also find interesting is that the guys are getting all up in arms about the fact that these "art-school feminists" are sitting around chatting about "crushes on videogame protagonists" and claiming this is more damaging to women than any of the other obviously sexist examples AJ listed in this article.
What I believe these (you?) guys are not seeing here is that while these women were able to play and react to the game as humans (like, their genitals didn't prevent them from being immersed in game play) once out of gameplay, they related to the male-centric cast with lust instead of, I guess, taking on the accomplishments of their characters as their own, as a dude would? What should they have been talking about after finishing the game? From what I read here, they found the game immersive, the characters well written and developed, and they also happened to find them attractive (even though they couldn't see some of their faces--what does it mean?!). Are you suggesting they...should react to the game as a man would, too? Or that they not play the game at all, if that's what they're gonna talk about!
On this point, I'm confused, you see. Enlighten a girl.
05:14 PM
I'm excited for SDXC which I think should replace conventional console HDs.
05:09 PM
Worth checking out if you want somethign to relax to.
04:55 PM
War, action, and awesome, on the other hand, aren't the domain of just one sex, much less one gender. I'd love to play a game based on some badass pants-wearing Russian partisan men and women.
05:13 PM
04:40 PM
04:30 PM
04:34 PM
If you're too poor to be able to afford this, maybe YOU should be shot. See? No logic. Get lost.
04:55 PM
Your opinion is retarded.
Wow, we have different opinions? D:
05:22 PM
06:11 PM
06:12 PM
06:14 PM
06:18 PM
You'll notice that everyone disagreed with you. It's because you said something unintelligent or rude. Best to consider the error rather than taking everyone on.
06:24 PM
06:26 PM
Oh, and it was a figure of speech. I don't think anyone deserves to be shot. Just that people that buy it, in my opinion, are pretty fucking stupid.
06:32 PM
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04:27 PM
How many women are in special forces?
How many women are in Brazilian militias?
Seems throwing a woman in the mix would make about as much sense having a panda that knows kungfu on the team.
The middle point of your article kind of answers why boys don't like girls playing video games. We don't sit around talking about which characters we wanna be, or which buxom bimbo we'd like to sleep with.
We just play the game.
I don't try to identify with the characters in FPS. I just run, shoot, wait for the paint to clear, and continue.
04:09 PM
04:07 PM
I remember there being more than one woman in the airport, but not many more. IW dodged a bullet, so to speak, by limiting their numbers there.
This was a pretty good article, I thought. Many people are taking it....differently than I did when I read it. Most of these are the same people that crapped on Raven Alexis' article because they were offended that a woman was telling them how to pick up women.
06:07 PM
Who else would know how a woman wants to be treated or communicated with other than a member of that group?
That's why many male gamers get none.
06:22 PM
So yeah, if there were more women in that level in the airport, people would definitely be claiming that women were being murdered instead of civilians being killed.
06:57 PM
This. Also the same people who come here just once a month to tell Tim Rogers how much he sucks (he doesn't) and post TL;DR.
What can we say though, controversy creates cash. And anything that involves girl gamers in a market predominantly male will just have its influx of idiots rushing in with the old "You're doing it wrong" response. It's people like this that nearly make me ashamed to be part of videogames and its culture. I know the Internet's for free speech and all but there's a line betwen putting your point(s) across in a decent manner, and just being a moron.
What this article really tells us is this: 3 girls sat in a room and played Modern Warfare 2. They enjoyed it in the same manner that men did. It didn't need any special treatment or add-ons to get the girls to like it.
07:04 PM
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