That's BS Tony. How long do you expect players to play the game? Everyone put in a fair amount of time. It had more than a fair chance. If a game is broken. It's broken.
I'm not gonna force myself to play something that isn't giving me pleasure. It's like eating shit and someone saying, well keep eating the shit. It'll get better. No it won't.
He's protecting something that's close to him (apparently), I get that. But, he can't deny the fact that people know when they're having fun playing a game or not.
RIDE is a big fat christmas present for EA's Skate team, wrapped in a pretty red bow. Theyre going to release a skating game thats half the price, and twice the fun. Oh how I do love the back and forth battle of Activision vs. EA. Seems EA has won this particular battle... again.
Ah, denial. Not one of PR's better tactics, I must say.
Mr. Hawk, you're better off just shutting up about the game. I don't think anyone "exactly imagined" your skater clipping through solid concrete, but I don't think that's quite a valid defense of the game.
@RockyRan: I'm sure we can absolve Tony Hawk for the coding of Ride.
His comments are in defense of the concept, which still sounds f'ing sweet on paper. Just ends up being crap when you turn it into a $120 piece of plastic with choppy game mechanics. For the kind of price, Activision should have put more talented people on the project, or just let a company like Harmonix develop it first.
Yes, this was a product miss. But it was Activision's fail, not Hawk's. "
@FireflyPunk: His comments are in defense of the board and not just the concept. And I'm just wondering what part of the concept looks good on paper. The part where to turn 180 degrees you have face the board away from the tv so now you have to look over your back shoulder at your character skating in the completely opposite direction than you are facing? Having to only slightly bend down and wave your hand at knee level to do a grab? There is nothing immersive about this concept, it is in fact, anti-immersive.
@FireflyPunk: He wasn't just defending the concept. He's attempting to defend the actual game itself and make it seem like it was misunderstood and that reviewers were too close minded to give it a chance. They did, the game just ended up sucking.
@worsethannormal, @RockyRan: Those are called game mechanics, and I agree, they are horrible. It was a poorly implemented concept.
The concept is a peripheral that mimics skateboarding realistically enough to give experienced people a challenge, and simple enough that beginners can pick it up and have fun.
That concept still sounds great.
Of course, it may be impossible to give people an accurate skateboarding experience, since, in reality, skateboarding tricks are f'ing hard unless you're practicing all the time. Taking the game the other way and making it super accessible (like they tried to do) makes the game, as you called it, anti-immersive, and very unlike skateboarding.
So how many people who have played the game and say it sucks actually skateboard and can do more than ride down a mild incline on their butts? :)
I'm just curious to see if this is a case where a game works very well for a niche market of people (i.e. people who actually skate a lot in real life) and sucks for everyone else or if it just genuinely sucks.
Poor old Tony doesn't seem to realise that when you replace a game series known for it's easy to pick-up-and-play controls, with one that needs a controller that only a pro skater can apparently play - people are going to complain.
Sorry Birdman, you just can't release game with such a steep difficulty curve in this day and age.
If the game feels shitty and unresponsive to the average Joe, you've failed at making a good game. Plain and simple.
...And that's without even considering the presentation issues that plague this game - sub-par graphics, bad menu systems, vague tutorials, the constant spam of advertising... All adding to an already shitty experience.
"if it didn't play exactly how they imagined it... then they passed it off"
I have issue with this quote. It's called "not living up to expectations", Tony. Don't try to deflect the blame onto the consumers and reviewers. If anyone's at fault it's you, Robomodo, and Activision.
You've got to wonder how the hell a game like this can go through a development cycle as long as it had without someone playing it during production and saying "You know, this game is nowhere near as good as the old games". I know I would have, I'm almost positive someone must have told them.
Did Hawk and Robomodo just stick their fingers in their ears and start shouting "LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALA" or something?
@Mentuss: "Sorry Birdman, you just can't release game with such a steep difficulty curve in this day and age."
Umm, Demon's Souls would like to have a word with you. ;-)
Actually, you can release a game with a steep difficulty curve in this day and age, but it needs to be a good game if you hope to sell enough copies to break even on the development and marketing costs.
Maybe I should have said "Sorry Birdman, you just can't release game with such a steep difficulty curve in this day and age and expect it to sell."
Because Demon's Souls... Hardly an incredible seller outside of Japan regardless of it's critical reception.
As much as at pains me to say it as I love a good game that stretches my gaming skills, we're living in the era of casual gaming; if it isn't easy to pick up and play, it's a niche title at best.
I think Activision thought they could get away with selling crap, and looking back at the growth of the casual market, there was a time when, yes... You could get away with making a shit game and still getting sales, but I think it's got to the point where even casual gamers are beginning to know what a good and bad game are.
@Bedlam: It sold well for what it was. Enough for Atlus to do another production run, but in all honesty, that to me questions Atlus' faith in the popularity of the game more than anything. As you say, it had little in the way of advertising, and makes me wonder exactly how many units were shipped to begin with. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've heard of Atlus not meeting demand, I remember how hard it was to snag a copy of Double Dragon Advance.
Seriously, you can't compare the sales of a niche title like Demon's Souls - and that's what it is, the type of game to appear favourably in a chart for few weeks, before everyone who wants it gets it - to what Activision expect from a Tony Hawk game, you just can't.
I think we've all read enough about Bobby Kotick to know that he isn't interested in really good single-platform games that only sell to a relatively small audience. He wants things that sell BIG. Not just big for what type of game it is, but big no matter what.
@Mentuss: Yeah, but see ... obviously Activision was wrong.
DS sold way better than TH:Ride. So there goes the theory that difficult games don't sell. I actually think that DS's difficulty was its biggest selling point. Lots of people are sick of extremely easy games and want a challenge again.
i went to target this weekend for holiday shopping, and dj hero was SOLD OUT. THR? there was a leaning tower of those things. and, not to mention i played the demo at ebgames for about 30 mins. most awkward experience in gaming this side of virtual boy. glad i spent my money on dj hero, that game at least is enjoyable.
sorry tony,
its not that people don't wanna give it a chance, its just that reviewers refuse to drink the kool-aid that is the tony Hawk franchise.
i just saw it in GAME today for £94.99...laughed pretty hard when i saw that price...so that's an extra £54.99 for the board(presuming Activision didn't up the price for the usual £40 game)..crazy!!
If the bad reviews end up putting this game in the bargain bin, I'll probably give it a try. As it is, I just can't justify spending $120 on this game. Not to mention that, like many others here, I have enough plastic stuff already.
It must be very disheartening for anyone deeply involved with a game (or any media product) to find it critically slaughtered. No-one goes into a project such as this with the attitude of, "Let's make a super-average game!"
I imagine that your genuine instinct would be to stand up for it, regardless of whether it carried your name on the box or not. I do feel a little sorry for Tony Hawk. His original games were amazing; but these days it seems to me as though the Skate games are more his style than his own games are.
@plasticmouse: I ask myself the same question all the time. Developing video games, no matter how good they turn out to be, is a very time-consuming and expensive process. What must developers be thinking when they're sat there coding some really average movie tie-in? Surely they realise that it's going to be slated. Why do they do it? Well for the money I guess, because movie tie-ins still sell like hotcakes. But still, I'm going for a job in the games industry and I can't imagine spending years of my life on a crappy project that I know will turn out to be an average game, I'd just walk out. Regardless of the money.
@Iarwain: Just a piece of advice: if you manage to land a job in this market, especially one in the gaming industry, it would probably behoove you to not adopt a habit of walking out on projects until you're presented with one you like.
I was never disappointed in a Tony Hawk game before this (well, I'm not technically disappointed, I didn't play it. But I'm disappointed its not like the others, so... whatever, I don't even know anymore). I knew what I was going to be getting with pretty much every Tony Hawk game, and that's what I was looking for.
12/07/09
I'm not gonna force myself to play something that isn't giving me pleasure. It's like eating shit and someone saying, well keep eating the shit. It'll get better. No it won't.
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Mr. Hawk, you're better off just shutting up about the game. I don't think anyone "exactly imagined" your skater clipping through solid concrete, but I don't think that's quite a valid defense of the game.
12/07/09
His comments are in defense of the concept, which still sounds f'ing sweet on paper. Just ends up being crap when you turn it into a $120 piece of plastic with choppy game mechanics. For the kind of price, Activision should have put more talented people on the project, or just let a company like Harmonix develop it first.
Yes, this was a product miss. But it was Activision's fail, not Hawk's. "
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12/08/09
The concept is a peripheral that mimics skateboarding realistically enough to give experienced people a challenge, and simple enough that beginners can pick it up and have fun.
That concept still sounds great.
Of course, it may be impossible to give people an accurate skateboarding experience, since, in reality, skateboarding tricks are f'ing hard unless you're practicing all the time. Taking the game the other way and making it super accessible (like they tried to do) makes the game, as you called it, anti-immersive, and very unlike skateboarding.
12/07/09
I'm just curious to see if this is a case where a game works very well for a niche market of people (i.e. people who actually skate a lot in real life) and sucks for everyone else or if it just genuinely sucks.
12/07/09
Sorry Birdman, you just can't release game with such a steep difficulty curve in this day and age.
If the game feels shitty and unresponsive to the average Joe, you've failed at making a good game. Plain and simple.
...And that's without even considering the presentation issues that plague this game - sub-par graphics, bad menu systems, vague tutorials, the constant spam of advertising... All adding to an already shitty experience.
"if it didn't play exactly how they imagined it... then they passed it off"
I have issue with this quote. It's called "not living up to expectations", Tony. Don't try to deflect the blame onto the consumers and reviewers. If anyone's at fault it's you, Robomodo, and Activision.
You've got to wonder how the hell a game like this can go through a development cycle as long as it had without someone playing it during production and saying "You know, this game is nowhere near as good as the old games". I know I would have, I'm almost positive someone must have told them.
Did Hawk and Robomodo just stick their fingers in their ears and start shouting "LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALA" or something?
12/07/09
Umm, Demon's Souls would like to have a word with you. ;-)
Actually, you can release a game with a steep difficulty curve in this day and age, but it needs to be a good game if you hope to sell enough copies to break even on the development and marketing costs.
12/07/09
Maybe I should have said "Sorry Birdman, you just can't release game with such a steep difficulty curve in this day and age and expect it to sell."
Because Demon's Souls... Hardly an incredible seller outside of Japan regardless of it's critical reception.
As much as at pains me to say it as I love a good game that stretches my gaming skills, we're living in the era of casual gaming; if it isn't easy to pick up and play, it's a niche title at best.
I think Activision thought they could get away with selling crap, and looking back at the growth of the casual market, there was a time when, yes... You could get away with making a shit game and still getting sales, but I think it's got to the point where even casual gamers are beginning to know what a good and bad game are.
Or, at least I hope we are.
12/07/09
[www.escapistmagazine.com]
12/07/09
Seriously, you can't compare the sales of a niche title like Demon's Souls - and that's what it is, the type of game to appear favourably in a chart for few weeks, before everyone who wants it gets it - to what Activision expect from a Tony Hawk game, you just can't.
I think we've all read enough about Bobby Kotick to know that he isn't interested in really good single-platform games that only sell to a relatively small audience. He wants things that sell BIG. Not just big for what type of game it is, but big no matter what.
12/07/09
DS sold way better than TH:Ride. So there goes the theory that difficult games don't sell. I actually think that DS's difficulty was its biggest selling point. Lots of people are sick of extremely easy games and want a challenge again.
12/07/09
i went to target this weekend for holiday shopping, and dj hero was SOLD OUT. THR? there was a leaning tower of those things. and, not to mention i played the demo at ebgames for about 30 mins. most awkward experience in gaming this side of virtual boy. glad i spent my money on dj hero, that game at least is enjoyable.
sorry tony,
its not that people don't wanna give it a chance, its just that reviewers refuse to drink the kool-aid that is the tony Hawk franchise.
12/07/09
Meanwhile the other reviews all played it more thoroughly...meaning they gave it more of a chance than the one guy who liked it.
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I imagine that your genuine instinct would be to stand up for it, regardless of whether it carried your name on the box or not. I do feel a little sorry for Tony Hawk. His original games were amazing; but these days it seems to me as though the Skate games are more his style than his own games are.
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I mean, Ironic, not funny, taking pleasure in other's pain is bad...
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*guffaw*
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YYYEEAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
....oh wait, wrong topic.
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