@-MasterDex-: He should really listen to you. The last FPS I played regularly was Team Fortress 1 (on the original Quake), and now I spend most of my days yelling at kids to get off my lawn and lamenting the lack of love for 3rd Strike.
Being a jaded elitist is a lonely existence, but at least you get to always be right.
You know, I'm not an expert an anything as far as business, so please don't take this as anything other than my probably-misguided opinion, but I can't help but think that Doom 3 did some damage to id. The months/years leading up to it were full of hype, and there was the added pressure of another high profile FPS game on the horizon (Halflife 2). And the game hit, and it certainly didn't fizzle. But it didn't seem to light the world on fire either. And since then the developer has become somewhat reclusive.
And I do believe those publishers' comments to id were good. They were too small to really jump on all their ideas. They couldn't produce games quickly enough to cover for one being less than the next big thing.
id can say what they want. The fact is they are now a middle of the pack developer in an overcrowded genre. They sold because they are going to be exposed in the next few years as a much lesser capable version of Valve or Epic. They are the Shaq of video game developers.
@IraPelican: Less capable than Epic? Are you joking? Epic are a joke as far as producing game engines go. iD tech has always been spectacular stuff and iD's games have always been of impeccable build. The same cannot be said about epic.
@IraPelican: I think you're making a mistake in lumping id with Valve at all. Valve doesn't make the impressive whiz bang graphics engines, at least, I have never seen a single instance of them doing graphically AMAZING things in their history, and I've played all of their games.
@ludwigk: FYI when Hl2 was first unveiled it was pretty impressive looking.. unfortunately it took at least another year to get out and by that time most everything had caught up....
I don't think he's comparing Valve's engine tech so much to their game philosophy and the types of games they bring on board. Id has never done anything to daring with their gameplay.
Epic has some very good tech despite some public support issues.
Disclaimer: I actually do really like all three of those "big" studio offerings from back in the day. Duke Nukem from Apogee, Keen from iD, and Jill from Epic.
@Mardoch: lol, I'm old enough but I never played it. Back then I was only really playing Doom, Wolfenstien and Duke Nukem on PC although I do remember a text adventure in the mix but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
I'm not interested in id, they're another early FPS developer - and it shows. What was their last game that they did themselves? Doom 3? Is that something to be proud of?
@e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3: Word. Doom 3 sucked big time, but the graphics and models were absolutely amazing. I mean, bullet wounds and all that. Freakin' fantastic stuff. Other than that, a complete shitfest. More like an amazing tech demo than a fun game.
I mean, no flashlight on your gun or helmet? Someone should be shot for that decision. Even Alan Wake can hold a flashlight and a gun at the same time and he's a writer, not a trained space marine from the future.
@e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3: Your tagline is a joke. They're hardly washed up if the last game they released was Doom 3. Sure it may have been some time ago but iD have always been about quality and considering they've been working on a few different games as well as building a completely new engine, 5 years isn't all that long. And yes, Doom 3 is something to be very proud of. From a technical standpoint, it has the best graphics on the 6th generation consoles.
@stradric: A complete shitfest? Really? I thought the game did what it set out to do perfectly, that is be a horror fps.
I'll still never forget the time I dropped the joypad in fright and had to take a minute to calm myself, no other game has done that to me either before or after.
Also, the way the light was done was intentional, it created tension and it created tension, suspense and set up some very shocking moments very well.
Sure the game was weak on story, but who cares, Doom was never about the story anyway.
@e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3: You may think they are washed up, but they aren't. Just because they don't pump out games like most FPS developers is actually a blessing I think. I have a feeling that Rage is going to be a hell of a game. And Doom 4, well if you don't like Doom yet you think you like FPS's you have some issues that need dealing with.
Fact is, they are pioneers, much like Valve. They created the genre. They can take their sweet time with their games, because they have earned that royalty. Sure, you may not be excited about Doom 4 or Rage, but your short sighted-ness may catch up to you when those games are released and you regret those comments you made on Kotaku that one day back in 2009....
That or the game will blow and you will be my new leader. THE FOOCHER IS NOOOOOW!!
@-MasterDex-: The "lighting" was tedious and frustrating. On top of that, it was highly predictable. There were so many "narrow corridor, lights go off, imp right behind you" moments, that when the lights when out, I would immediately execute:
180 spin + switch to shotgun + click + click.
Then I'd turn the lights back on to see a pile of demon slag on the floor, and continue on my way with not a scratch on me. That's not scary at all.
@ludwigk: There were so many "narrow corridor, lights go off, imp right behind you" moments, that when the lights when out, I would immediately execute:
First of all, that's just logical. If you're in the dark and enemies can come from behind you or in front of you (both of which happened) then of of course you'd often end up just blind-firing and killing something.
There was certainly a lot more than narrow corridors, there was a fair share of wide open rooms, etc as well and even with the lights on, enemies appeared from nowhere.
Also, if you didn't think it was scary at all and never got a scratch on you then you weren't playing it on nightmare difficulty because with no medkits, constantly falling health and insane damage, there's no way you'd make it through the game unscathe and calm.
@-MasterDex-: I don't see how you can compare Valve to id. id created the FPS genre, and that's great. I play mostly FPS games, so thanks to them for that. However, their games still play like the originals, which is a bad thing. The graphics have gotten better, but games like the half life series have passed id by. If "good graphics!" is your only defense, I guess you're right. The graphics were nice to look at (When the lights weren't flickering or off), but there are lots of games that have pretty graphics, better gameplay, and an engrossing storyline. If it's not about the storyline (Which it isn't), there's always multiplayer. Unfortunately, there's no reason to play one of id's multiplayer modes when there are games like TF2 (To stick with Valve), Unreal (A series that has aged much better than Doom has), Halo, Battlefield, etc.
@CitizenInsane27 (Would like to eat your soul please.): Just because you don't pump out a game every year doesn't mean your company is washed up. Where did I say that? I didn't. id hasn't brought any new ideas or concepts to the FPS table since it created the table. Why should I be excited for Doom 4 or Rage? Doom 3 wasn't exactly a AAA title. Except for the DOOM title on the front of the box, it was a pretty mediocre game. As far as Rage goes, I know it has racing, and guns. Yeah, exciting. I'll stick with developers who consistently make excellent products, like Valve, Infinity Ward (Sans COD4 multiplayer), Insomniac, etc.
@e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3: Doom 3 was released in 2004, sure, even then the gameplay was dated but it was done intentionally. They didn't want to make Halo: Doom Edition or Doom: Gravity Gun Edition, they wanted to make Doom 3. Sure they could have updated things but then Doom fans, of which you can see I am, wouldn't have been happy with it. It wouldn't have been Doom anymore and Carmac felt the same. Doom 3 was a good game for it's time all the same and even though it might not have aged as well as Half Life 2, that doesn't mean it was a mediocre game.
As far as the second part of your comment goes, all I can do is laugh.
Just because you don't pump out a game every year doesn't mean your company is washed up. Where did I say that? I didn't.
e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3
Considering your name and the fact that id haven't developed any games since Doom 3, it's implied that's what your opinion is.
Doom 3 wasn't exactly a AAA title. Except for the DOOM title on the front of the box, it was a pretty mediocre game.
IN YOUR OPINION, which you're quite entitled to have but don't make it out to be a proven fact, it just makes you look like an asshole.
As far as Rage goes, I know it has racing, and guns. Yeah, exciting.
As far as Halo:Reach goes, I know it's Halo, yeah, exciting.
See how that works? You can't judge a game with when practically zero info, screens, videos, etc have been released. Again, it just makes you look like an asshole.
I'll stick with developers who consistently make excellent products, like Valve, Infinity Ward (Sans COD4 multiplayer), Insomniac, etc.
Despite YOUR OPINION of COD4s multiplayer, it is a very well recieved multiplayer that offers a lot to players and rewarded skill as well as being easy to pick up. In my opinion, it's a great multiplayer and COD4 wouldn't be half the game it is or have half the great reputation it has if the multiplayer wasn't what it is. The fact you stated that ends up invalidating your opinion to me as it shows bad taste, in my opinion.
@-MasterDex-: Doom 3 had "dated gameplay" intentionally? Sort of how Sony "intentionally" lost their massive lead from the PS2 generation. I don't think id needs to "copy" other developers ("Hey, lets add co-op!" or substitute your favorite gameplay device and/or gimmick), but they do need to make a game that plays to my 2009 expectations, which have grown quite a bit from 1995.
I don't know what you'd like me to write instead, but id hasn't made a really huge game since the original DOOM. D2 was good at the time, even if it wasn't new; change doesn't need to come quickly. But, as evidenced by D3, it does need to come eventually. It did not have the same staying power as the games that surrounded it (Namely HL2, I didn't own a decent PC at the time).
I liked the original Halo (That's why I said Halo, not Halo 2 or Halo 3 or Halo Wars). Halo was a revolutionary console FPS, not so much because of it's storyline (Blah), but the use of the melee and grenades. Has Bungie been resting on it's laurels? Without a doubt. I'm not excited for Halo Reach, the only reason I bought a 360 at all was because I got a 60GB new in box for $100. Don't put words in my mouth.
Have you ever met a serious COD1 or COD2 player? COD2 was the best in the series, the multiplayer was excellently balanced. COD4's multiplayer, despite it's good reviews, has an automatic flying aimbot and a jumbo grenade that you can unlock after getting 7 or 5 easy kills with your fully automatic weapon.
Completely different. Sony intentionally lost their massive lead from the PS2 generation by intenionally making development for the PS3 a pain in the ass. id on the other hand intentionally kept the gameplay true to form (like Halo 3 and many other sequals have done) for the sake of the fans of the game.
I don't think id needs to "copy" other developers ("Hey, lets add co-op!" or substitute your favorite gameplay device and/or gimmick), but they do need to make a game that plays to my 2009 expectations, which have grown quite a bit from 1995.
So you're judging Doom 3, a game released in 2004 based on 2009 expectations? lol, that's absurd.
I don't know what you'd like me to write instead, but id hasn't made a really huge game since the original DOOM.
What about the Quake series, in particular Quake III: Arena? Those were huge games in their time.
And as for Doom 3:
taken from Doom wiki-
The game was a commercial success for id Software, with the planned total revenue estimated by Activision at $20 million. It was one of the top selling games of 2004, alongside Halo 2 for the Xbox and Half-Life 2. The financial success was bolstered by the near-record number of pre-orders placed for the game.
I'm not excited for Halo Reach, the only reason I bought a 360 at all was because I got a 60GB new in box for $100. Don't put words in my mouth.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was showing the ignorance of your statement by using a game from a series you mentioned.
Have you ever met a serious COD1 or COD2 player? COD2 was the best in the series, the multiplayer was excellently balanced.
I was a COD2 player and COD2 was the best in the series...until COD4 came around.
COD4's multiplayer, despite it's good reviews, has an automatic flying aimbot and a jumbo grenade that you can unlock after getting 7 or 5 easy kills with your fully automatic weapon.
Or your sniper rifle or single shot weapon or claymores, etc, etc, etc. It's not quite an aimbot either. It sense moving targets and targets shooting. For the most part, you can go prone, not shoot and survive or do the clever thing to do when an attack chopper is firing on you and take cover.
As for the airstrike, for the most part, you're given an advanced auditory warning, on top of that the airstrike happens in waves so you can avoid it if you don't get killed in the first wave. Finally, both of these can be and are turned off on servers.
id: Why We Sold To ZeniMax: Because even though we own one of the most successful IP's in video games, we are so poorly mismanaged that we could not stop a corporate takeover.
I'm personally not worried about id going to ZeniMax. I believe Carmack is sincere in his belief that the deal is structured to protect id's work integrity, and that this is an arrangement borne of solid research and study (rather than some hastily structured arrangement to save id from insolvency). Best that they acted now rather than further down the road, IMO.
@Kuwabara Kazuo: But you can probably count 3D Realms out and good riddance too. If I never have to hear Broussards lame excuses again I'll be a happy man.
Y'know, I like Carmack. He's always got something insightful to say. The guy's been in the industry longer than most Kotaku readers have been alive, so it makes sense he's got the know-how to keep things in perspective.
My sincerest wish, though, is that someday he'll find it in his heart to finance a Commander Keen game for the PSN and XBLA.
@Archaotic: One of the things I like about Carmack is that he can pull off being honest about stuff instead of feeding us standard PR lines. He calls 'em like he sees 'em without coming across as pompous or arrogant.
As for Commander Keen, this is one of the cooler works from the super-low-poly thread on Polycount:
I'm glad it's not a sequel to Doom 3, but I really hope it's a sequel to that comic because it is the most brilliant piece of literature the world has ever seen. (For those who haven't read it in it's 16 glorious pages, [www.doomworld.com] )
Ugh, just make a good game and market it so it has a chance. Whenever I a developer say this, all I hear "Whaaaaaa, Nintendo's games are too good! Whaaaaaaa, they have such great brand recognition because of decades of high quality software and fantastic marketing! Whaaaa, I'm too lazy to put any real effort into my games to actually attempt to compete with that!"
Third party games do well on the Xbox/360 and PS2/3 because there is no competition. The only first party properties from MS and Sony that are popular enough to provide serious competition are Halo and Gran Turismo, respectively.
Besides, one look at the Gameboy and DS lines and you know what this guy is saying is complete crap.
@Eric J. Baker: actually, sony has some excellent stuff on the ps3 comin out. thats why i prefer the ps3 to the 360.. theres not much going on in the way of exclusives for the 360 because besides halo and gears (and i dont care for gears) they dont really have any exclusives worth mentioning. at least for my tastes. while on the other hand, sony has stuff that will stay exclusive that im interested in like god of war III, infamous, uncharted, team icos next project, and (keeping my fingers crossed) a new jak and daxter. i feel like the ps3 is sony's nintendo 64, and its quickly becoming my favorite sony console of all time.
06/24/09
So, are they saying publishers wanted id to do more of the work rather than outsource to "partner companies?"
If so, I agree.
Raven didn't really do Quake 4 justice.
id's partners aren't really consistent homerun hitters. Wolf:ET was fantastic. QuakeWars was horrid.
06/24/09
06/24/09
id ditches Activision.
I likey. Who's next?
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Being a jaded elitist is a lonely existence, but at least you get to always be right.
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And I do believe those publishers' comments to id were good. They were too small to really jump on all their ideas. They couldn't produce games quickly enough to cover for one being less than the next big thing.
I personally think this will do id some good.
06/24/09
06/24/09
Seriously though, thank you for that. Saved me the bother.
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I don't think he's comparing Valve's engine tech so much to their game philosophy and the types of games they bring on board. Id has never done anything to daring with their gameplay.
Epic has some very good tech despite some public support issues.
06/24/09
XD You're a funny guy.
06/24/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
For reference, as I don't know how old you are.
Disclaimer: I actually do really like all three of those "big" studio offerings from back in the day. Duke Nukem from Apogee, Keen from iD, and Jill from Epic.
06/24/09
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06/24/09
I mean, no flashlight on your gun or helmet? Someone should be shot for that decision. Even Alan Wake can hold a flashlight and a gun at the same time and he's a writer, not a trained space marine from the future.
06/24/09
@stradric: A complete shitfest? Really? I thought the game did what it set out to do perfectly, that is be a horror fps.
I'll still never forget the time I dropped the joypad in fright and had to take a minute to calm myself, no other game has done that to me either before or after.
Also, the way the light was done was intentional, it created tension and it created tension, suspense and set up some very shocking moments very well.
Sure the game was weak on story, but who cares, Doom was never about the story anyway.
06/24/09
Fact is, they are pioneers, much like Valve. They created the genre. They can take their sweet time with their games, because they have earned that royalty. Sure, you may not be excited about Doom 4 or Rage, but your short sighted-ness may catch up to you when those games are released and you regret those comments you made on Kotaku that one day back in 2009....
That or the game will blow and you will be my new leader. THE FOOCHER IS NOOOOOW!!
06/24/09
180 spin + switch to shotgun + click + click.
Then I'd turn the lights back on to see a pile of demon slag on the floor, and continue on my way with not a scratch on me. That's not scary at all.
06/24/09
First of all, that's just logical. If you're in the dark and enemies can come from behind you or in front of you (both of which happened) then of of course you'd often end up just blind-firing and killing something.
There was certainly a lot more than narrow corridors, there was a fair share of wide open rooms, etc as well and even with the lights on, enemies appeared from nowhere.
Also, if you didn't think it was scary at all and never got a scratch on you then you weren't playing it on nightmare difficulty because with no medkits, constantly falling health and insane damage, there's no way you'd make it through the game unscathe and calm.
06/24/09
@CitizenInsane27 (Would like to eat your soul please.): Just because you don't pump out a game every year doesn't mean your company is washed up. Where did I say that? I didn't. id hasn't brought any new ideas or concepts to the FPS table since it created the table. Why should I be excited for Doom 4 or Rage? Doom 3 wasn't exactly a AAA title. Except for the DOOM title on the front of the box, it was a pretty mediocre game. As far as Rage goes, I know it has racing, and guns. Yeah, exciting. I'll stick with developers who consistently make excellent products, like Valve, Infinity Ward (Sans COD4 multiplayer), Insomniac, etc.
06/24/09
As far as the second part of your comment goes, all I can do is laugh.
Just because you don't pump out a game every year doesn't mean your company is washed up. Where did I say that? I didn't.
e-friend thinks id has been washed up since doom 3
Considering your name and the fact that id haven't developed any games since Doom 3, it's implied that's what your opinion is.
Doom 3 wasn't exactly a AAA title. Except for the DOOM title on the front of the box, it was a pretty mediocre game.
IN YOUR OPINION, which you're quite entitled to have but don't make it out to be a proven fact, it just makes you look like an asshole.
As far as Rage goes, I know it has racing, and guns. Yeah, exciting.
As far as Halo:Reach goes, I know it's Halo, yeah, exciting.
See how that works? You can't judge a game with when practically zero info, screens, videos, etc have been released. Again, it just makes you look like an asshole.
I'll stick with developers who consistently make excellent products, like Valve, Infinity Ward (Sans COD4 multiplayer), Insomniac, etc.
Despite YOUR OPINION of COD4s multiplayer, it is a very well recieved multiplayer that offers a lot to players and rewarded skill as well as being easy to pick up. In my opinion, it's a great multiplayer and COD4 wouldn't be half the game it is or have half the great reputation it has if the multiplayer wasn't what it is. The fact you stated that ends up invalidating your opinion to me as it shows bad taste, in my opinion.
06/24/09
[www.gametrailers.com]
I don't know about you but I think it looks like it's going to be great.
06/24/09
I don't know what you'd like me to write instead, but id hasn't made a really huge game since the original DOOM. D2 was good at the time, even if it wasn't new; change doesn't need to come quickly. But, as evidenced by D3, it does need to come eventually. It did not have the same staying power as the games that surrounded it (Namely HL2, I didn't own a decent PC at the time).
I liked the original Halo (That's why I said Halo, not Halo 2 or Halo 3 or Halo Wars). Halo was a revolutionary console FPS, not so much because of it's storyline (Blah), but the use of the melee and grenades. Has Bungie been resting on it's laurels? Without a doubt. I'm not excited for Halo Reach, the only reason I bought a 360 at all was because I got a 60GB new in box for $100. Don't put words in my mouth.
Have you ever met a serious COD1 or COD2 player? COD2 was the best in the series, the multiplayer was excellently balanced. COD4's multiplayer, despite it's good reviews, has an automatic flying aimbot and a jumbo grenade that you can unlock after getting 7 or 5 easy kills with your fully automatic weapon.
06/24/09
Completely different. Sony intentionally lost their massive lead from the PS2 generation by intenionally making development for the PS3 a pain in the ass. id on the other hand intentionally kept the gameplay true to form (like Halo 3 and many other sequals have done) for the sake of the fans of the game.
I don't think id needs to "copy" other developers ("Hey, lets add co-op!" or substitute your favorite gameplay device and/or gimmick), but they do need to make a game that plays to my 2009 expectations, which have grown quite a bit from 1995.
So you're judging Doom 3, a game released in 2004 based on 2009 expectations? lol, that's absurd.
I don't know what you'd like me to write instead, but id hasn't made a really huge game since the original DOOM.
What about the Quake series, in particular Quake III: Arena? Those were huge games in their time.
And as for Doom 3:
taken from Doom wiki-
The game was a commercial success for id Software, with the planned total revenue estimated by Activision at $20 million. It was one of the top selling games of 2004, alongside Halo 2 for the Xbox and Half-Life 2. The financial success was bolstered by the near-record number of pre-orders placed for the game.
I'm not excited for Halo Reach, the only reason I bought a 360 at all was because I got a 60GB new in box for $100. Don't put words in my mouth.
I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was showing the ignorance of your statement by using a game from a series you mentioned.
Have you ever met a serious COD1 or COD2 player? COD2 was the best in the series, the multiplayer was excellently balanced.
I was a COD2 player and COD2 was the best in the series...until COD4 came around.
COD4's multiplayer, despite it's good reviews, has an automatic flying aimbot and a jumbo grenade that you can unlock after getting 7 or 5 easy kills with your fully automatic weapon.
Or your sniper rifle or single shot weapon or claymores, etc, etc, etc. It's not quite an aimbot either. It sense moving targets and targets shooting. For the most part, you can go prone, not shoot and survive or do the clever thing to do when an attack chopper is firing on you and take cover.
As for the airstrike, for the most part, you're given an advanced auditory warning, on top of that the airstrike happens in waves so you can avoid it if you don't get killed in the first wave. Finally, both of these can be and are turned off on servers.
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My sincerest wish, though, is that someday he'll find it in his heart to finance a Commander Keen game for the PSN and XBLA.
06/24/09
As for Commander Keen, this is one of the cooler works from the super-low-poly thread on Polycount:
[img.photobucket.com]
04/15/09
04/15/09
04/15/09
Holy hell that is the worst writing in a comic I have ever seen. Yet I love it!
04/12/09
Third party games do well on the Xbox/360 and PS2/3 because there is no competition. The only first party properties from MS and Sony that are popular enough to provide serious competition are Halo and Gran Turismo, respectively.
Besides, one look at the Gameboy and DS lines and you know what this guy is saying is complete crap.
04/12/09