Before we get 360 update complaints (I'm probably too late), Microsoft requires charging for downloads, and each game only gets one free for updates 'n' such. So, Valve is waiting 'til they have all the classes updated before they do that, because they don't want to nickle 'n' dime the fans.
@Paul_Is_Drunk: I thought it was because the original Orange Box engine already maxed out the 360, and the updates would put it over the top.
But your point is also valid too, although I've never heard of the "one free update" rule.
@Aperture_Kubi: That's silly. TF2 runs well even on old PCs.
If you want an example of something maxing out the 360 (& the PS3) look towards Dragon Age.
I think the one free update rule is so that companies can update their games, which is a necessity this gen it seems, but still force all other add-ons to be bought. Microsoft really has been pushing that service, and they probably make A LOT of money off of it. Think of it like iTunes for video games.
Ever since I picked up Orange Box for 360 to get Portal and HL2, I've been in love with TF2. I bought it for PC for $20 not long after.
I'm still eagerly awaiting the Engineer update. By far my favourite class to play, though I do mix it up as the team needs.
Something funny I noticed the other day; about 95% of the time I end up on the Red team. I never pick a team, I always select the Random or go with the team with the fewest players.
@Squiffy: Well... it doesnt really matter. Each round if the "defending" team didnt meet the objective , team colors are switched. BLU always attacks. RED always defends.
@Steed123: I'm not expecting anything insanely different for the Engi. I'd just like a little variety maybe. Like two different turret types (flamethrower vs rocket launcher maybe?) or something to sub in for teleporters or dispensers.
Just variety, not "zomg he needs to be uberer." I'm sure all the classes will eventually get updated.
@Mercsenary: Well, yeah. I don't often play defend/attack maps, though.
I normally stick with CTF and capture point ones. Attack/Defend tends to be overfull of ubermedic zergs that win in 10 seconds.
Nothing against that type of map, I'm a bigger fan of games that go on for ages hehe
Edit: Hrm, this speakup tag got added on automatically... odd... I dunno if I should delete it or not!
I wonder how they justify the cost of the updates? I mean everyone and their mother has bought and played this game, it's such a great game and a staple of multiplayer, and now they sell it for $5 or less...
But there is no subscription fees, and no DLC or anything. So where are they pulling the revenue to support the updates.
Let me be clear, I think the dedication is amazing and I love and support it 1000%. BUT, I just wonder how they justify the cost of having a support team. I guess they just chalk it up to marketing, since it is this kind of support that makes Valve such a pillar in the videogame industry.
@dirtybacon: I have a friend that bought L4D2 because of how much support Valve has given to his first love, TF2. Since they have updated it so much, and he got it for so cheap he sort of thinks he owes it to them. A lot of it is making a name for themselves as a developer of a good product.
Look at the L4D2 boycott. People wouldn't have even blinked if EA or Activision released a sequel so soon.
Every time they release a major update for TF2, they see a sales increase of 20% for the game. Its not just a good moral decision, its a good buisness decision.
@Wolfnave: It's not just that. According to Microsoft's DLC "rules" Valve is being forced to make gamers pay for the console version updates (assuming they come out some time before 2013).
@Tacticalspoon: they were actual patches, not just server maintenance. usually skill rebalances on a half dozen or so skills. once a week, i believe, would be slighty above their average but in the first year the game was out was about right.
@shadydentist: & @clayfish101: with no monthly fee and a fully instanced based world (even the supposedly open world towns) it's really hard to classify guild wars as an MMO. certainly not an MMO in the traditional sense.
Valve do put a lot of work into TF2 but in fairness a lot of these updates are bug fixes. Plus the fact that most of them will be very small updates, a lot of other companies prefer lumping these together into fewer but meatier updates. Not to mention that at least a dozen will be there to fix things the last patch screwed up.
It seems like a lot on paper but boils down to a more average, maybe above average, amount when considered in perspective.
@Odin:
I'd have to disagree, I think even stripping away all the bug fixes, there's still been a far greater than average increase in content. Compared to when it was first released it's really not even the same game any more.
I'm not trying to play down the impressive amounts of content they add to it merely that the frequency of updates isn't as impressive when you take into account other factors. I mean that update frequncy of a supposed 1 per week becomes less interesting when you take into account that tangible content updates may only be happening every 4-6 weeks.
@Odin:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's still impressive is all I was saying.
I suppose if this record was hotly contested someone could release the buggiest piece of crap in the world and then update the hell out of it for years to come.
I wonder how many times WoW has had updates, surely a similarly massive amount? That thought had no connection to the previous paragraph by the way! Or perhaps it does ...
I don't know if that's incredibly impressive, or unbelievably sad for other devs who often times take half the year* to get a patch out that fixes game-breaking bugs,
*Slightly exaggerated.
'Tis a shame I've never been able to get into TF2 though. Just the idea of jumping into a two year old game, having to learn things everyone already knows very well, is not fun whatsoever.
@Paradox me: I recently purchased TF2 for $2 through Steam, but had it with the Orange Box on my 360 for a couple years now.
I only played it once on 360 and didn't much care for it, but I've been completely hooked on it since giving it a second try.
Sure, there are people who know the maps, and have the strategy down, but it really IS a team game, and for the most part, you can get into games that are decently balanced. Team makeup is everything. There's not THAT much of a learning curve, and generally you find a class you love, stick with it, and then branch out when you feel comfortable.
Oh, and generally the community is awesome. There are a few jerks sprinkled in there, but for the most part, everyone is civil, and just want to enjoy the game. It's a great environment and rather unique.
That said, give it another try. I have a guest pass available for it through Steam and I'd be happy to send it to you if you message me. It's worth it!
@devincarney: Is the community really that kind to newbies? I too, have wanted to play TF2, but I didn't want to get in the way of those that have been playing it forever.
When I initially bought it, I thought it would have some sort of single player campaign so a person could learn the game before they threw themselves to the wolves on Live.
I still wish they had put in some sort of single player.
@TheFuriousFive: Like I said, I hadn't really played up until a couple weeks ago when they ran the $2.49 sale, so I'm relatively new to it.
If you're playing an offensive or defensive class such as soldier, demo, pyro, or the like, you're pretty much on your own, and there's really not much to learn. I would definitely recommend those particular classes starting out. You'll be less prone to casual criticism.
If you're a medic, you'll have people constantly screaming for heals and ubers, so it's rather demanding if you're not used to paying tons of attention as a support class.
Engineers require a large amount of finesse (when done correctly) and are definitely NOT the class I would recommend for your first round. Get a feel for the game, the levels, and the other classes before spawning engineer.
Spies are awesome, but, again, get used to other classes before rolling it. It'll help you to blend in better.
Any class you choose will have a bit of a learning curve. You will die a lot. It's just the way the game is.
As for the community, I've played about 12 hours combined, on multiple servers, and never felt intimidated, as though my being a newbie was a huge detriment. The whole game is about team dynamics, and a few good players can cover up for a couple subpar ones until they can get their bearings. Spawn, catch up with a small group of the other players who look like they know what they're doing, and kill things.
Don't worry too much about heavy criticism because I have NEVER heard anyone berate someone for not doing well. You'll always have your random, "God, who is healing?!" or "Why the hell are there no engineers, and 7 pyros", but I've never heard any personal attacks. It's a good community that's very passionate about having a good time. You'll always have someone that tries to ruin the fun, but people either ignore them, or tell them to chill out and stop being a jerk. People don't put up with crap on TF2 servers like they do on Xbox Live.
My Steam ID is ikarimaru. Add me if you'd like and I'd be glad to join game with anyone that might not be used to the game yet. :D
@TheFuriousFive: If you join a large server pretty much nobody will be able to tell you're a newbie since there's so much going on.
Putting it into perspective, TF2 was one of the first modern FPS's I had ever played, and for my brother it was his VERY FIRST modern FPS. Both of us, within two weeks, got the hang of it perfectly, and we both constantly climb near the top of the team scoreboards. It's not hard to get into at all and very newbie friendly. Advanced movement tactics are restricted to the Demoman and Soldier, and even then their use is limited.
If TF2 is still in style by the time I get my own kids, I'll have the older one wear a medic costume too so that the beam from the gun could be wrapped around the younger kid to keep him from running around.
Good job on the costumes. If only they had spent as much time cleaning their house. One can just hope that's clean laundry on the couch. Tsk tsk parents. #teamfortress2
@Mister Jack commands 1000 prinnies!: And has some of the greatest writers I've ever had the privilege of reading. First time i read the blog I exclaimed "TF2 has writers?!!?" I aspire to be like them someday... #valve
@Mister Jack commands 1000 prinnies!: It's even funnier that it's a game with no plot that has 100x's the character for each class than most games released in the past 5 years.
Marcus Fenix, Mario, and Ratchet all have the character development of chimpanzee's compared to Soldier. #valve
@Mox FcCloud: I have to second this, even though Team Fortress 2 doesn't have much in the way of writing, the actual meta-plot and universe are surprisingly rich, totally hilarious, and extremely well-done overall. That even such a silly, inconsequential part of the whole "TF2 experience" is so well-executed shows that Valve has got some serious talent on their side and is putting it to great use. #valve
@Mister Jack commands 1000 prinnies!: And let's not forget the community that picks up what's already great and runs further with it. NerfNow is pretty incredible for a webcomic that pretty much centers around one game. #valve
@Mister Jack commands 1000 prinnies!: Not tried the newest Ratchet, but it was an easier example than Nathan Drake or Kratos. One thing I do enjoy about PS games is the characters tend to be more fleshed out, but not always. #valve
11/18/09
11/18/09
But your point is also valid too, although I've never heard of the "one free update" rule.
11/18/09
If you want an example of something maxing out the 360 (& the PS3) look towards Dragon Age.
I think the one free update rule is so that companies can update their games, which is a necessity this gen it seems, but still force all other add-ons to be bought. Microsoft really has been pushing that service, and they probably make A LOT of money off of it. Think of it like iTunes for video games.
11/18/09
I'm still eagerly awaiting the Engineer update. By far my favourite class to play, though I do mix it up as the team needs.
Something funny I noticed the other day; about 95% of the time I end up on the Red team. I never pick a team, I always select the Random or go with the team with the fewest players.
11/18/09
They made his tech upgradable a while back, probably all they'll do for it.
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Just variety, not "zomg he needs to be uberer." I'm sure all the classes will eventually get updated.
@Mercsenary: Well, yeah. I don't often play defend/attack maps, though.
I normally stick with CTF and capture point ones. Attack/Defend tends to be overfull of ubermedic zergs that win in 10 seconds.
Nothing against that type of map, I'm a bigger fan of games that go on for ages hehe
Edit: Hrm, this speakup tag got added on automatically... odd... I dunno if I should delete it or not!
#speakup
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But there is no subscription fees, and no DLC or anything. So where are they pulling the revenue to support the updates.
Let me be clear, I think the dedication is amazing and I love and support it 1000%. BUT, I just wonder how they justify the cost of having a support team. I guess they just chalk it up to marketing, since it is this kind of support that makes Valve such a pillar in the videogame industry.
11/18/09
Look at the L4D2 boycott. People wouldn't have even blinked if EA or Activision released a sequel so soon.
11/18/09
Valve has already commented on this.
Every time they release a major update for TF2, they see a sales increase of 20% for the game. Its not just a good moral decision, its a good buisness decision.
11/18/09
#tips
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For a non-MMO, it certainly is.
11/18/09
@shadydentist: & @clayfish101: with no monthly fee and a fully instanced based world (even the supposedly open world towns) it's really hard to classify guild wars as an MMO. certainly not an MMO in the traditional sense.
11/18/09
It seems like a lot on paper but boils down to a more average, maybe above average, amount when considered in perspective.
11/18/09
I'd have to disagree, I think even stripping away all the bug fixes, there's still been a far greater than average increase in content. Compared to when it was first released it's really not even the same game any more.
11/18/09
I'm not trying to play down the impressive amounts of content they add to it merely that the frequency of updates isn't as impressive when you take into account other factors. I mean that update frequncy of a supposed 1 per week becomes less interesting when you take into account that tangible content updates may only be happening every 4-6 weeks.
11/18/09
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's still impressive is all I was saying.
I suppose if this record was hotly contested someone could release the buggiest piece of crap in the world and then update the hell out of it for years to come.
I wonder how many times WoW has had updates, surely a similarly massive amount? That thought had no connection to the previous paragraph by the way! Or perhaps it does ...
11/18/09
*Slightly exaggerated.
'Tis a shame I've never been able to get into TF2 though. Just the idea of jumping into a two year old game, having to learn things everyone already knows very well, is not fun whatsoever.
11/18/09
I only played it once on 360 and didn't much care for it, but I've been completely hooked on it since giving it a second try.
Sure, there are people who know the maps, and have the strategy down, but it really IS a team game, and for the most part, you can get into games that are decently balanced. Team makeup is everything. There's not THAT much of a learning curve, and generally you find a class you love, stick with it, and then branch out when you feel comfortable.
Oh, and generally the community is awesome. There are a few jerks sprinkled in there, but for the most part, everyone is civil, and just want to enjoy the game. It's a great environment and rather unique.
That said, give it another try. I have a guest pass available for it through Steam and I'd be happy to send it to you if you message me. It's worth it!
11/18/09
Spy beats sniper, sniper beats heavy, heavy is credit to team.
11/18/09
When I initially bought it, I thought it would have some sort of single player campaign so a person could learn the game before they threw themselves to the wolves on Live.
I still wish they had put in some sort of single player.
11/18/09
If you're playing an offensive or defensive class such as soldier, demo, pyro, or the like, you're pretty much on your own, and there's really not much to learn. I would definitely recommend those particular classes starting out. You'll be less prone to casual criticism.
If you're a medic, you'll have people constantly screaming for heals and ubers, so it's rather demanding if you're not used to paying tons of attention as a support class.
Engineers require a large amount of finesse (when done correctly) and are definitely NOT the class I would recommend for your first round. Get a feel for the game, the levels, and the other classes before spawning engineer.
Spies are awesome, but, again, get used to other classes before rolling it. It'll help you to blend in better.
Any class you choose will have a bit of a learning curve. You will die a lot. It's just the way the game is.
As for the community, I've played about 12 hours combined, on multiple servers, and never felt intimidated, as though my being a newbie was a huge detriment. The whole game is about team dynamics, and a few good players can cover up for a couple subpar ones until they can get their bearings. Spawn, catch up with a small group of the other players who look like they know what they're doing, and kill things.
Don't worry too much about heavy criticism because I have NEVER heard anyone berate someone for not doing well. You'll always have your random, "God, who is healing?!" or "Why the hell are there no engineers, and 7 pyros", but I've never heard any personal attacks. It's a good community that's very passionate about having a good time. You'll always have someone that tries to ruin the fun, but people either ignore them, or tell them to chill out and stop being a jerk. People don't put up with crap on TF2 servers like they do on Xbox Live.
My Steam ID is ikarimaru. Add me if you'd like and I'd be glad to join game with anyone that might not be used to the game yet. :D
11/18/09
Putting it into perspective, TF2 was one of the first modern FPS's I had ever played, and for my brother it was his VERY FIRST modern FPS. Both of us, within two weeks, got the hang of it perfectly, and we both constantly climb near the top of the team scoreboards. It's not hard to get into at all and very newbie friendly. Advanced movement tactics are restricted to the Demoman and Soldier, and even then their use is limited.
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Live and learn. #teamfortress2
11/11/09
If TF2 is still in style by the time I get my own kids, I'll have the older one wear a medic costume too so that the beam from the gun could be wrapped around the younger kid to keep him from running around.
Good job on the costumes. If only they had spent as much time cleaning their house. One can just hope that's clean laundry on the couch. Tsk tsk parents. #teamfortress2
11/03/09
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Marcus Fenix, Mario, and Ratchet all have the character development of chimpanzee's compared to Soldier. #valve
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Still, I get what you're saying. For a game with no plot, the characters are a lot more memorable than you would expect. #valve
11/03/09