Make this the Lost Levels of 3D Mario games! Please!
Sure everyone will hate it. But it will be a legend!
Oh and this paragraph really confuses me: "Personally, the option somehow seems more appropriate in a multiplayer-skewed game like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even though the side-scrolling entries in the Super Mario Bros. series have typically been the more challenging of the lot."
The fact that the sidescrollers are more challenging (are they?) would mean they are a more appropriate fit for the Super Guide, which seems to go against your "even though" phrasing. But anyway, the Super Guide makes no appearance during multiplayer in NSMBWii.
Cant wait till nintendo actually puts some effort into making games again one day.
Super mario galaxy 2, oh boy a expansion that walks like a sequel. Id rather have a new mario game than just a rehash of a mediocre one.
Thats as bad as zelda spirit tracks. Oh boy wind waker and phantom hourglass again only this time a train instead of a boat. Boy I cant wait to find out if I get the boomerang or the hookshot first this time.
Or new super mario bros wii. Terrific! Its new super mario bros from the DS again, only this time for the wii. #supermariogalaxy2
i hate being told what to do, and i support the super guide.
i also support infinite lives, and levels where you have to completely restart an objective every time you die. so make with that, super mario galaxy 2.
and don't keep telling me what to do while i play the game. like, don't ever, ever, ever send a penguin to remind me that i can press the A button to jump.
I would think that pretty much any 1st party Nintendo title will have the super guide from now on. It's a great way to mix all that nice creamy casual market in with your more nougatty hardcore, all culminating in that sweet sweet candy bar...er core demographic...BRB candy bar. #supermariogalaxy2
I fully, one hundred percent support the super guide. Why?
Because developers will finally start making games hard again. I'll never use it, but at least I'll be able to find a damn challenge in a video game finally. It seems 90% of games haven't been challenging since the GC/PS2/XB era, unless they're smart and actually add difficulties.
...Maybe Nintendo should just start adding bloody difficulties. Wouldn't that fix everything? Come on, give me a Zelda where each enemy hit takes three hearts and not a quarter of one. #supermariogalaxy2
@WorldGreatest Waiting for Heavy Rain: Obviously there are hard games here and there, but the point is that they're fairly rare. One super hard game =/= good generation. They were a lot more consistent and testing in the SNES/N64 eras.
I have been looking into Demon's Souls though. I have a PS3, so why not? And Ninja Gaiden. Haven't tried it. Good, and pretty damn hard from what I've heard. #supermariogalaxy2
@tim rogers:
Are you kidding? it's the hardest game i've played this entire generation.
@mangs:
it's a DL only game though. but if you include it then hell yeah it's hard.
@maian:
Yeah NG is hard too but i agree. this generation has been catering to the casuals a lot. hopefully we'll see more hard games before this gen ends.
Grr... Most of these conversations aren't answering the question. That's a shame, because it's a fascinating question. I think super guide would be well suited to:
Pikmin. Demonstrating how to control your hordes effectively and effectively time manage would be awesome. I'm not sure how the game would know when to offer it though...
Metroid. This would be a twist on the Superguide. Metroid can be difficult if you don't already know the game (or if Retro hasn't dumbed the boost ball guardian down for the Wii), but fans have their own way to add challenge. Speed runs. Nintendo could use the Super Guide to give speed tips. On the other hand, I guess the speed running crowd is also the least likely to want to use this feature...
Wii Sports. Whatever they do with the franchise, I guarantee it will have the S.G.
Golden Sun. Not for combat. It would turn off for combat probably. But the puzzles... god that game has the best puzzles ever. They are also tough though, and the game is fairly retro about not holding your hand. Sometimes I got stuck because I wasn't using an ability I didn't know I had. That's Camelot though, so I'm not sure if Nintendo stuff like this would apply to their title.
Zelda. Now I know that this seems like a terrible idea. Zelda is easy. The puzzles aren't too challenging and the combat is a joke. BUT. All that changed with the Temple of the Ocean King. Most people hated the place, but that was the first Zelda dungeon in a decade with serious old school challenge. I'm still stuck on the last run through. So Zelda added challenge, and I failed. I guess Nintendo is vindicated in making it easy all those years. But rather than go back to the old ways, they should just add the S.G.
Animal Crossing. I'm serious here. It's already as laid back as a game can get. That's good. That's what Animal Crossing does. You know the title screen to AC: Wild World? With someone just wandering the town, occasionally talking to someone or doing something. Expand on this, maybe add some hilarious thought bubbles while they meander showing what they really think of you/the town/other critters/mocking the game, and you have an alternate mode I would leave up for hours.
And now some games that shouldn't get the treatment:
Starfox. It's all about precision and reflexes. It wouldn't hurt to see a run through to get some pointers on racking up higher hit counts, but it wouldn't add anything to the game. The story modes are always easy to get through, and then tough when going for medals/high scores. No need for S.G. here.
Advance Wars/Fire Emblem. These games are all about planning, strategy, and intelligence. Putting S.G. in one of these is therefore an insult to all of these things. Besides, AI in a strategy game can never emulate a human properly. Well, I haven't seen it at least.
And now some third party games that should copy S.G.
Sonic. You're always going too damn fast to see any secrets. This would work like in Mario, but would be more useful.
Castlevania. Turn on S.G. and the character will run to a save point, and survive. That's how you make the save point system not suck any more. Or they could just GET RID OF IT! It would be awesome for the vicious bosses though.
Pheonix Wright. I'm tired of getting my narrative interrupted by my incompetence. Give me a win button, I'm in it for the writing/story more than the "Ah-ha!" moments anyway. Though those are nice too I suppose.
Oh my god how did this post get so long? I'm like that fellow who writes the monthly rant articles about Japan. Sorry guys.
How long would it take them to create a super guide for this game anyways? I could understand it working for NSMBW, but for THIS? This is way more complicated than simply moving left or right at the proper times. #supermariogalaxy2
I got the game today and I like the super guide. I would consider myself a "pro" level platformer but ever now and again there's a level that just gets on your nerves. (So far I've only ran into one.) Super guide allows you to skip over it for now and finish it later. I always go for 100% completion on mario games so for me it is a nice way to progress through the game in the initial fun without getting burnt out on a difficult level. #supermariogalaxy2
I certainly hope so, as the original gave a pretty good challenge here and there.
I've yet to figure out why so many all-audience games these past couple generations have been so unbelievably easy. I don't need every game to be ball-busting, but at least give me an option to make it harder. Even if it's something voluntary, like not buying any armor upgrades in the Ratchet games. The last two Zelda games, especially (twilight and hourglass) were so unbelievably easy to the point of boredom. Zelda is one hell of a good series, and I really hope they buck that trend. #supermariogalaxy2
The "super guide" is going to breed a new generation of idiot gamers.
Rather than learn to overcome challenges, they'll just turn on the "helper." It's been pretty strongly supported through research into humans and learning (particularly motor learning) that being exposed to instances above an individual's level actually spurs on greater adaptation and learning. To put it bluntly, handicaps don't make you better, they just make you handicapped.
I hate to go old school on everyone here, but I'm going to borrow a little quotable gem from the movie Tron:
"Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop."#supermariogalaxy2
@illiniphase4: Well, on the bright side, having "super guides" means that games in general might actually make an effort to be challenging to gamers again. And people who are bad at games and hardly play games in the first place won't have to play them at all, so we won't even have to deal with them! Hey, I can dream. :P #supermariogalaxy2
@illiniphase4:
Challenges you haven't been able overcome will either spur you on to greater heights or dishearten you and make you abandon the whole process. Which way it goes depends on what you consider is required to beat the challenge.
If you think it's a matter of innate skill, you'll give up, if you think it's a matter of strategy/practise you'll work to overcome it.
"Hardcore" gamers know that it's almost always a matter of strategy/practise, "casuals" are more likely to think that it is skill.
Demonstrate that it's not and all of a sudden you give people an opportunity to continue when they would have abandoned it.
I don't like the idea of holding someone's hands all the way through, but the super guide is a pretty good tool that keeps people interested. #supermariogalaxy2
@TrjnRabbit: Yeah, that's true... but then again, there's no such thing as "innate talent."
From music to sports to games, it's all learned skills, with the minor exception of genetic physiological differences, but even those can be overcome. #supermariogalaxy2
This is good, thought I will kinda suck at it, since i'm still doing the luigi stars on Galaxy and i almost went mad in some of the purple coin challenges with mario!
However when i'm done i would like the next game to be more challenging so i don't get bored. #supermariogalaxy2
@Falsoman: you think that was hard? try racing cosmic Luigi. In my 15 years of playing nintendo, that was the only game that made me throw my controller. #supermariogalaxy2
11/25/09
Sure everyone will hate it. But it will be a legend!
Oh and this paragraph really confuses me: "Personally, the option somehow seems more appropriate in a multiplayer-skewed game like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even though the side-scrolling entries in the Super Mario Bros. series have typically been the more challenging of the lot."
The fact that the sidescrollers are more challenging (are they?) would mean they are a more appropriate fit for the Super Guide, which seems to go against your "even though" phrasing. But anyway, the Super Guide makes no appearance during multiplayer in NSMBWii.
11/17/09
Super mario galaxy 2, oh boy a expansion that walks like a sequel. Id rather have a new mario game than just a rehash of a mediocre one.
Thats as bad as zelda spirit tracks. Oh boy wind waker and phantom hourglass again only this time a train instead of a boat. Boy I cant wait to find out if I get the boomerang or the hookshot first this time.
Or new super mario bros wii. Terrific! Its new super mario bros from the DS again, only this time for the wii. #supermariogalaxy2
11/18/09
11/24/09
Reviewers say : Amazing!
Players say : Meh
11/24/09
11/17/09
i also support infinite lives, and levels where you have to completely restart an objective every time you die. so make with that, super mario galaxy 2.
and don't keep telling me what to do while i play the game. like, don't ever, ever, ever send a penguin to remind me that i can press the A button to jump.
ever. #supermariogalaxy2
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/16/09
Because developers will finally start making games hard again. I'll never use it, but at least I'll be able to find a damn challenge in a video game finally. It seems 90% of games haven't been challenging since the GC/PS2/XB era, unless they're smart and actually add difficulties.
...Maybe Nintendo should just start adding bloody difficulties. Wouldn't that fix everything? Come on, give me a Zelda where each enemy hit takes three hearts and not a quarter of one. #supermariogalaxy2
11/17/09
1- Get a PS3
2- Get Demon's Souls
then get back to me about having no hard games this gen. #supermariogalaxy2
11/17/09
I have been looking into Demon's Souls though. I have a PS3, so why not? And Ninja Gaiden. Haven't tried it. Good, and pretty damn hard from what I've heard. #supermariogalaxy2
11/17/09
it's "almost hard enough". #supermariogalaxy2
11/19/09
Are you kidding? it's the hardest game i've played this entire generation.
@mangs:
it's a DL only game though. but if you include it then hell yeah it's hard.
@maian:
Yeah NG is hard too but i agree. this generation has been catering to the casuals a lot. hopefully we'll see more hard games before this gen ends.
#speakup
11/16/09
This wont be either, nintendo has to cater to their new audience too much to make something "really challenging" #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
Pikmin. Demonstrating how to control your hordes effectively and effectively time manage would be awesome. I'm not sure how the game would know when to offer it though...
Metroid. This would be a twist on the Superguide. Metroid can be difficult if you don't already know the game (or if Retro hasn't dumbed the boost ball guardian down for the Wii), but fans have their own way to add challenge. Speed runs. Nintendo could use the Super Guide to give speed tips. On the other hand, I guess the speed running crowd is also the least likely to want to use this feature...
Wii Sports. Whatever they do with the franchise, I guarantee it will have the S.G.
Golden Sun. Not for combat. It would turn off for combat probably. But the puzzles... god that game has the best puzzles ever. They are also tough though, and the game is fairly retro about not holding your hand. Sometimes I got stuck because I wasn't using an ability I didn't know I had. That's Camelot though, so I'm not sure if Nintendo stuff like this would apply to their title.
Zelda. Now I know that this seems like a terrible idea. Zelda is easy. The puzzles aren't too challenging and the combat is a joke. BUT. All that changed with the Temple of the Ocean King. Most people hated the place, but that was the first Zelda dungeon in a decade with serious old school challenge. I'm still stuck on the last run through. So Zelda added challenge, and I failed. I guess Nintendo is vindicated in making it easy all those years. But rather than go back to the old ways, they should just add the S.G.
Animal Crossing. I'm serious here. It's already as laid back as a game can get. That's good. That's what Animal Crossing does. You know the title screen to AC: Wild World? With someone just wandering the town, occasionally talking to someone or doing something. Expand on this, maybe add some hilarious thought bubbles while they meander showing what they really think of you/the town/other critters/mocking the game, and you have an alternate mode I would leave up for hours.
And now some games that shouldn't get the treatment:
Starfox. It's all about precision and reflexes. It wouldn't hurt to see a run through to get some pointers on racking up higher hit counts, but it wouldn't add anything to the game. The story modes are always easy to get through, and then tough when going for medals/high scores. No need for S.G. here.
Advance Wars/Fire Emblem. These games are all about planning, strategy, and intelligence. Putting S.G. in one of these is therefore an insult to all of these things. Besides, AI in a strategy game can never emulate a human properly. Well, I haven't seen it at least.
And now some third party games that should copy S.G.
Sonic. You're always going too damn fast to see any secrets. This would work like in Mario, but would be more useful.
Castlevania. Turn on S.G. and the character will run to a save point, and survive. That's how you make the save point system not suck any more. Or they could just GET RID OF IT! It would be awesome for the vicious bosses though.
Pheonix Wright. I'm tired of getting my narrative interrupted by my incompetence. Give me a win button, I'm in it for the writing/story more than the "Ah-ha!" moments anyway. Though those are nice too I suppose.
Oh my god how did this post get so long? I'm like that fellow who writes the monthly rant articles about Japan. Sorry guys.
11/16/09
11/16/09
i mean he has gone every where else... well besides peach's bedroom
11/17/09
@jameshtd48: There you go. ;) #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
I've yet to figure out why so many all-audience games these past couple generations have been so unbelievably easy. I don't need every game to be ball-busting, but at least give me an option to make it harder. Even if it's something voluntary, like not buying any armor upgrades in the Ratchet games. The last two Zelda games, especially (twilight and hourglass) were so unbelievably easy to the point of boredom. Zelda is one hell of a good series, and I really hope they buck that trend. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
He seems very unhappy. Maybe it's his lack of hands. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
11/16/09
Rather than learn to overcome challenges, they'll just turn on the "helper." It's been pretty strongly supported through research into humans and learning (particularly motor learning) that being exposed to instances above an individual's level actually spurs on greater adaptation and learning. To put it bluntly, handicaps don't make you better, they just make you handicapped.
I hate to go old school on everyone here, but I'm going to borrow a little quotable gem from the movie Tron:
"Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop." #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
11/16/09
Challenges you haven't been able overcome will either spur you on to greater heights or dishearten you and make you abandon the whole process. Which way it goes depends on what you consider is required to beat the challenge.
If you think it's a matter of innate skill, you'll give up, if you think it's a matter of strategy/practise you'll work to overcome it.
"Hardcore" gamers know that it's almost always a matter of strategy/practise, "casuals" are more likely to think that it is skill.
Demonstrate that it's not and all of a sudden you give people an opportunity to continue when they would have abandoned it.
I don't like the idea of holding someone's hands all the way through, but the super guide is a pretty good tool that keeps people interested. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
From music to sports to games, it's all learned skills, with the minor exception of genetic physiological differences, but even those can be overcome. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
The problem is that people think that it exists, and that they lack it. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
However when i'm done i would like the next game to be more challenging so i don't get bored. #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09
11/16/09
Not that i have a perfect record with every game... #supermariogalaxy2
11/16/09